This thread exists to contain all questions, comments, criticism, praise, or anything else related to my alternate Spellcasting system I have posted/published in "the Post".
d20 Mana System: Vanician Casting has Failed its Last Save (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.22)
Please ask any questions you may have, say anything that comes to mind.
The full system can also be found here:
OGL Mana System (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/29/Mana_System.html)
Can you feel the building anticipation?
I'm trying to put a big file in the Host, but for some reason it wouldn't work. I'm trying again.
It seems you posted your mana system in the Post. Good. I like it, and it seems better and more consistent than UA's spell points. A few remarks:
- There seems to be an inconsistency between the text and the first table. According to the text, the number of bonus spell points is equal to twice the key ability ability modifier times half the character's caster level, while the table consistently lists only half that amount. Assuming your work is based on the XPH, it seems the word "twice" in the text should be removed.
- The references at the end of the text are rather vague. The new spell "X" does not appear to exist; the first url instead leads us to a document full of notes on how spells were changed.
- The spell page in the Hosting area looks rather chaotic. I suggest you remove all the extra spaces and use bold and/or italics fonts to make it more readable. Some sort of index might help as well.
- As I skimmed through the spell list, I noticed you changed the cure spell to use d6s rather than d8s. How come? Did you make any other such changes to spells (except the inflict spell, obviously)? I also noted the cure spell is listed with Saving Throw: None which seems wrong to me. Isn't that supposed to be Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)?
Congratulations on finishing this huge project!
Túrin
PS You should edit the OP to state that the project is now up in the Post, and to provide a clickable link both to that page and to the referenced pages in the aritcle itself that have (unclickable) links.
Quote- The spell page in the Hosting area looks rather chaotic. I suggest you remove all the extra spaces and use bold and/or italics fonts to make it more readable. Some sort of index might help as well.
What happened to your nice htmly spell listing? with the links up top, etc.?
The files it links to were made half-hazardly, because the one was very big. I should have the true web pages up shortly; but since the spell description page did come out so poorly, I'll update that to a more cleaned up document tonight.
*points at various other comments* How about those other things I said?
On a more general note, are you aware you have a dead link in your sig?
Túrin
[nit]
Is it really necessary to refer to yourself as "the writer" when writing a dnd article? I'm pretty sure you can just say "I" when not writing for Nature. (enworld aside.) :)
[/picked]
That said, it looks pretty cool so far
(and now really is visible to everyone, fyi.)
Quote from: brainface[nit]
Is it really necessary to refer to yourself as "the writer" when writing a dnd article? I'm pretty sure you can just say "I" when not writing for Nature. (enworld aside.) :)
[/picked]
I read that and thought another person was writing the opening blurb...
Quote from: Túrin- The references at the end of the text are rather vague. The new spell "X" does not appear to exist; the first url instead leads us to a document full of notes on how spells were changed.
- As I skimmed through the spell list, I noticed you changed the cure spell to use d6s rather than d8s. How come? Did you make any other such changes to spells (except the inflict spell, obviously)? I also noted the cure spell is listed with Saving Throw: None which seems wrong to me. Isn't that supposed to be Saving Throw: Will half (harmless)?[/quote]Congratulations on finishing this huge project!
Túrin
PS You should edit the OP to state that the project is now up in the Post, and to provide a clickable link both to that page and to the referenced pages in the aritcle itself that have (unclickable) links.
[/quote]
I will ... when I get home. LOL.
And thanks; I can now focus on my costuming and writing the super dungeon for my PbP playtest.
I am in the process of posting the whole system in my section on our hosting page. Expect it by the end of the day.
It is up everyone. Please, read, share your opinions. It's all for you.
http://www.thecbg.org/settings/29/Mana_System.html
You need to learn a scripting language and regular expressions, so you can use it to quickly and easily hyperlink everything in those files :D.
I keep trying to click on the spell names, and nothing happens. :(
Xeviat, what strikes me the most is the fact that you have apparently put an extraordinary amount of work into this. It was a huge project, and you've definitely got more willpower than I in finishing something of this caliber. I have to be honest, I'm not a rules' lawyer, nor am I even remotely an expert on various systems in d20, so I doubt I can add much legitimate discussion to this, but for what it's worth, I read the entire system (minus reading every single spell, I skimmed most of them) and am thoroughly impressed. When I get the links section updated, it will definitely have a home there.
I'm spreading the word over on the House Rules board on Wizards.COMmunity; perhaps that will draw us some new blood.
And thanks Ishy; I hope it is worth all the time I put into it.
QuoteThese spells are extraordinarily simple, and they do not take up space in a caster's memmory. A caster automatically has knowledge of all cantrips
No limit on casting cantrips?
Quote from: CYMRONo limit on casting cantrips?
There's a limit on
casting, being as they do take mana points to use.
Quote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: CYMRONo limit on casting cantrips?
There's a limit on casting, being as they do take mana points to use.
Where? I did not see it in the article, only the reference I quoted above.
Check out any zero level spell here (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/29/Spell_Descriptions_A-B.html).
I would suggest a redo there. A zero level spell and a first level cost the same? :disgust:
Why not 3 + key ability modifier per day of cantrips/orisons?
THat might be a more accurate reflection of their worth.
To be fair, cantrips can't be augmented.
Eventually I will retool cantrips to be at will; that way a sorcerer can be a sorcerer all the time with simple spells like acid orb and ray of frost.
Quote from: Turin- There seems to be an inconsistency between the text and the first table. According to the text, the number of bonus spell points is equal to twice the key ability ability modifier times half the character's caster level, while the table consistently lists only half that amount. Assuming your work is based on the XPH, it seems the word "twice" in the text should be removed.
It seems you forgot to fix this.
There is no mention of metamagic feats in the system. Do they not exist? Are they not finished?
Its a pretty big hole in the system that I just noticed.
Heh ... limetom, read the first page of the mana system. There's a blurb on converting feats. It's quite simple.
And Turin, I could have sworn I fixed that; let me check.
It looks fixed to me. Formula is key ability modifier times level divided by 2.
There is a big discussion about this going on on the WotC boards. It seems that many think the sorcerer is worthless in this system. They don't feel that the sorcerers 90 extra MP and added ability with metamagic spells makes up for the fact that the wizard can change out their spells per day each day.
Wizards have as many spell preparation slots as sorcerers have spells known. Wizards have 90 less MP, and learn 2 spells per level (except first, where they learn 3+int). So without putting any resources into their spellbook, the wizard will have, on average, 43 spells known and 36 spell slots; compared to the sorcerer's 36 spells known, I'd say that's pretty darn close.
Additionally, they too don't like the way I did cantrips, so I think I'll institute a rule that makes cantrips free for a certain amount per day. Should I use the old PsiHB system, or something else?
Quote from: XeviatThere is a big discussion about this going on on the WotC boards. It seems that many think the sorcerer is worthless in this system. They don't feel that the sorcerers 90 extra MP and added ability with metamagic spells makes up for the fact that the wizard can change out their spells per day each day.
Wizards have as many spell preparation slots as sorcerers have spells known. Wizards have 90 less MP, and learn 2 spells per level (except first, where they learn 3+int). So without putting any resources into their spellbook, the wizard will have, on average, 43 spells known and 36 spell slots; compared to the sorcerer's 36 spells known, I'd say that's pretty darn close.
Additionally, they too don't like the way I did cantrips, so I think I'll institute a rule that makes cantrips free for a certain amount per day. Should I use the old PsiHB system, or something else?
Yeah, I had to give my sorcerer a signicant increase in rp to balance how I decimated their spell list. But if you keep the spelllists on par, your way is close enough of a balance.
As for cantrips,
x + key ability modifier equals cantrips per day seems simple enough.
QuoteWizards have as many spell preparation slots as sorcerers have spells known. Wizards have 90 less MP, and learn 2 spells per level (except first, where they learn 3+int). So without putting any resources into their spellbook, the wizard will have, on average, 43 spells known and 36 spell slots; compared to the sorcerer's 36 spells known, I'd say that's pretty darn close.
They're CRAZY. your low-level wizard gets like, 1 unique spell per day. it doesn't matter how many you COULD know, if you can only prepare ONE. Who knows how it works out at high level.
For cantrips, i think it'd be seriously better to scale more up to 1st level spells. maybe not 'read magic', but ray of frost can be turned into 1st level, and maybe augmented right into polar ray (although i see you changed polar ray?). detect magic can be augmented into arcane sight (or whatever it is.) Scale dancing lights into... into... (does anyone USE dancing lights??)
Brainy; the first level wizard gets 1 spell per day anyway. They will probably have at least a 14 intelligence, and thus will get a bonus 1st level slot, giving them 2 spells per day.
My wizard gets one spell slot. With a 14 intelligence, they'll get 1 bonus MP. Thus they'll have 1 spell twice per day, which would be like if a wizard prepped the same spell.
I think that's pretty close. I might be wrong, but it seems relatively the same.
I don't think it is, really. (a regular wizard, particularly at low level, has little reason to prepare the same spell several times--the sorcerer can play that game much better.)
However, i don't exactly expect it to be the same, what with an entirely different magic system. just making a comment. :)
[note]It would be useful if you provided a link to the wotc discussion.[/note]
It seems like, in trying to differentiate wizards and sorcerers, you've made the sorcerer have the broadest selection of spells per day, while the wizard has a broader selection of spells between days. In regular dnd, i'd say the wizard has the broadest selection of spells prepared, as well as just spells known--assuming he doesn't prepare the same spell several times. The sorcerer just has more spells, and the entire spontaneous thing--she doesn't have to worry about running out of any given spell.
I'm not sure on how good a "choose entirely different spells between days" gimmick is for the wizard. I mean, that's not how I play wizards, maybe it's how they play them over at the wotc boards. Stopping the entire party and resting so a wiz can have that one spell that would be very useful now? That's how i play a cleric, man. ;)
I'm not saying the "many spells known between days" thing isn't any good--i just think it's being overvalued.
I believe I may have a different solution. Imagine this:
The wizard learns 3+int modifier spells at first level. These spells are scribed into their spellbook. As they gain levels, their research allows them to add 2 free spells into their spellbook, as normal. The sorcerer starts with 3 spells known and learns 2 spells every level after that. The sorcerer does not need a spellbook.
The wizard is able to add spells to their spell book easily; the gp cost will be increased, how ever. Sorcerers are unable to learn new spells without spending feats.
The wizard is able to cast from any spell in their spellbook, as long as the book is on hand. Wizards will be able to prepare wands or staffs to hold different spells that they can cast with their MP, so they don't have to lug around their book, and the Spell Knowledge feat can be used to permanently learn a spell.
In return for the wizard's added versatility, the sorcerer has more MP.
I think this idea fits the more fantastic archtype of the wizard. Can it be balanced?