Ok so my DM has been making his own magic system and every attribute represents an element. his elements are,
Lightning
Fire
Earth
Wind
Water
Spirit
Ok now, these are their attributes..
Lightning - Charisma???(Dont know what crack he is smoking)
Fire - Strength
Earth - Constitution
Wind - Intelligence (not quite sure on this one fitting either)
Water - Dexterity???(Again another wtf moment for myself and all the other people i know)
Spirit - Wisdom
...
Now me and my DM each have talks about our worlds to help eachother make a better world...However one of us usually backs down on arguments, but this time i am unwilling lol. I feel Lightning should be Dexterity and Water should be Charisma... Am i wrong in my thinkging? Is my logic flawed?
Please debate :D
I would agree with you. Lightning evokes feelings of speed, reflex, etc. Water evokes feelings of mystery, beauty, and so forth. While I am not one to use elements like that I think that if I did I would choose your way.
Isn't charisma supposed to be the power of personality (at least as far as using it for magic goes)? I could see lightning a very fitting match if a character is quick to anger, less so for the calm types. As for dexterity, didn't Bruce Lee have something to say about being flexible like... water?
Yeah but that was just being fluid. Being able to adapt quickly which if anything would relate water to int right? but cha i would think is water because water adapts to its container and whatever is happening around it...like charismatic person does in any social situation...
There are a lot of ways to do this based upon how you see an element.
Water could be: Str, because water can move rocks and break things; Con, because water is enduring; Wis, because water is passive. In fact water has so many attributes that it would probably be represented by all the ability scores.
Similarly with other elements:
Lightening: Str (destroys things), Dex (speed), Int (speed again), Wis (because it comes from the heavens), Cha (because it's imposing).
Fire: Str, Int (fire of imagintion), Cha (it's pretty and fascinates people).
Earth: Str, Con, Int (for being old and having much knowledge), Wis (same as Int).
Water: see above
Spirit: for various reasons this could be any ability score (it would help if you'd tell us exactly how spirit is being seen in this context)
I'm having difficulty getting my head on Lightning being it's own element: traditionally it's either part of fire (in eastern systems) or air (in western systems). In my elemental system, I associated each element with a physical and a mental stat (mostly because I hope to one day have 4 physicals and 4 mentals, but it's difficult to do right now):
Air: Dexterity and Wisdom. Air is quickness and reflexes, both in quickness to act and quickness to perceive. It is one's ability to react to the world around you.
Earth: Constitution and Wisdom. Earth is the resilience of the body and the mind. It is a measure of one's ability to withstand the hardships of the world around you.
Fire: Strength and Charisma. Fire is the strength of the body and the power of the mind. It can greatly invoke change in the world around you.
Water: Dexterity and Intelligence. Water is the adaptability of the body and the mind.
For your DM, I'd suggest the following (if they are dead set on Lightning being an element):
First, is your DM going for an Eastern approach, a Western approach, or something wholly unique? Because I perfectly understand Lighting/Charisma, Wind/Intelligence, Water/Dexterity: Lightning is loud and forceful, Wind is powerful but lacks strength without focus (it needs to be driven with purpose), and Water is fluid in its movement.
I, though, would recommend Water be Intelligence and Air be Dexterity. I would also recommend, though, that Lightning not be its own element.
Silvercat puts it well: many elements could be a lot of things.
Legend of the Five Rings is a Japanese themed RPG system (it is the game that the Rokugon setting comes from, the setting Wizards used in the 3E Oriental Adventure's book). In L5R, there are five elements: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Void (or Spirit). The four "inner" elements were each associated with two ability scores:
Air: Dexterity and Perception (physical senses)
Earth: Constitution and Willpower
Fire: Agility and Intelligence
Water: Strength and Insight (emotional senses)
Void is its own score, and it could be used to add to other roles (like action points in many systems).
Spirit is so broad that it should really be applied to any stat.
Wind seems like it could fit Charisma: words/speech and their power, with air as the medium of speech.
Lightning strikes me as Intelligence because of the link with inspiration, thought, immateriality. Lightning is a weird element to have when you've also got Wind and Fire, though, as already noted.
I like Dexterity as water because water can twist and flow around things, evasively, rather than confronting them head-on. I've never really equated Dexterity with speed, more with nimbleness and agility, the ability to dodge rather than sprint.
Likewise Earth as Constitution, Fire as Strength, and Spirit as Wisdom make sense to me.
Quote from: SteerpikeI've never really equated Dexterity with speed, more with nimbleness and agility, the ability to dodge rather than sprint.
One cannot be effective at dodging if they are not quick.
Air as Charisma is actually rather perfect, I don't know why I didn't think of that.
Indian Chakras are also another one to look at. Earth is "base", water is "center", air is "heart", fire is "solar plexus", then there is throat, third eye, and crown. Read the wiki article on chakras.
I think that with Lightning it could be meant that this is a "holy" element from the heavens which separates it from the more worldly and mundane fire. Of course, that interpretation would overlap with Spirit somewhat.
Quote from: Towel NinjaLightning - Charisma???(Dont know what crack he is smoking)
Fire - Strength
Earth - Constitution
Wind - Intelligence (not quite sure on this one fitting either)
Water - Dexterity???(Again another wtf moment for myself and all the other people i know)
Spirit - Wisdom
...
Now me and my DM each have talks about our worlds to help eachother make a better world...However one of us usually backs down on arguments, but this time i am unwilling lol. I feel Lightning should be Dexterity and Water should be Charisma... Am i wrong in my thinkging? Is my logic flawed?
I'm going to look at this from another viewpoint, of the Pagan/Wiccan views on 4/5 elements.
Air is usually considered connected witht the intellect, with thought, inspiration, mental faculties, etc. I find putting Air with Intelligence to be fitting.
Fire is connected with energy, change, force, and will, and sometimes with passion and anger. It could theoretically apply to more than one attribute, but Strength does appear fitting.
Water is connected with emotion, intuition, love, compassion, and nurturing. It does not particularly make sense to me to be connected with dexterity, though perhaps an argument could be made for it. Wisdom or Charisma might be more appropriate.
Earth is connected with grounding, stability, calm, memory, sleep. It is often related to the physical, "earthly" things, such as the body or material goods. Constitution seems appropriate.
Spirit is representative of oneness and interconnection, such as the idea of "As Above, So Below." Wisdom does seem to be the best fitted for this.
Which leaves lightning. Not considered it's own element in any belief system I know about (only an "element" in D&D). I agree with some that it's quickness makes it potentially suitable for Dexterity.
Which would leave us with:
Lightning--Dexterity
Fire--Strength
Earth--Constitution
Air--Intelligence
Water--Charisma
Spirit--Wisdom
I still have issues with this, but this seems to me to be the closest way of assigning one to each appropriately, according to my way of looking at the elements in question. Ultimately it just switched the attributes of Water and Lightning, I suppose, but I hope the reasoning makes sense.
Thanks for all the feedback, my dm decided to go with lightning as dex and water as cha because my friend said "But wait, water has to be cha. Because water is smooth and flows like the fonz, and nothing is more charismatic then the fonz!"
Apparently he has never heard a better argument lol. I must say though i didnt like lightning being its own element because it just doesnt make sense being a base element, something that is maybe two elements i thought but idk.