The Campaign Builder's Guild

Hi everyone. I wanted to see if something that has happened to me has happened to others here as well.

And that would be my changing taste in reading materials and in my gaming/world building desires.

I have noticed over the last couple of years that when I choose a book to read I am staying away from more and more 'typical' fantasy novel. The only new series that I find myself driven to read is the Malazan books by Steven Erickson. Anything else fantasy based seems, well, flat. Now I am currently into urban/modern fantasy and science fiction for my every day reading. And this has had a big impact on my gaming experiences as well.

I've also realized that as a GM I am much better at running modern day games, either superhero or urban fantasy type game. Which I think is interesting as my main two worlds are both fantasy based. I can picture them pretty clearly in my head, and have been able to get some of it down on 'paper'. And still come up with ideas for both worlds. But I'm not driven to finish them since I will probably never run them, and my writing skills don't seem to lend themselves to writing stories in them either.

I started a short lived campaign with demons attacking Earth and taking over parts of the US in current day times. And had a ball with it. I've got various ideas for a space opera type game as well, but nothing down on paper.

I guess my question(s) is. Have you noticed a shift in your reading preferences. And if so how has it had an effect on your gaming and your world building?

Raven

I think my tastes have shifted from dark/dystopian/cataclysmic material to purely inventive, evocative and thought provoking stuff.  I like fantasy that is both honest and optimistic; weird, wacky and wonderful; and I don't give a damn about realism.

Quote from: _I think my tastes have shifted from dark/dystopian/cataclysmic material to purely inventive, evocative and thought provoking stuff.  I like fantasy that is both honest and optimistic; weird, wacky and wonderful; and I don't give a damn about realism.

Can you give some examples of what you are reading? I am always up for trying new authors and stories.

I have found a similar shift over the last, maybe half a decade? At the beginning of this period, I would read pretty much anything fantasy just because I liked fantasy. It didn't matter if it was a bad book, I would still read it, fully recognising it's lack of merit as I did so.

Since then I have become less tolerant of poor quality in my reading material, and more aware of how prevalent in the fantasy genre such poor quality is - not necessarily poor quality writing, but more poor quality imagination.

So, I have started reading a number of works from other genres (not that I was ever a fantasy-only reader, but it did take up maybe 90% or more of my literary diet) such as historical novels, crime fiction, and a fair amount of non-fiction as well, in the form of history texts, works on conspiracy theories, biographies, and academic writings.

There are still a number of fantasy writers who can still engage me in the way that the genre as a whole used to, though. China Mieville, of course, is one, but also at times (less so with his early works) Michael Moorcock can do it for me. Terry Pratchett's incredibly witty take on the fantasy genre has never paled in all the years I have been reading his books (I think probably from about age 10 or 11 onwards) and Robert E Howard's Conan stories still hold a very visceral appeal for me. There are others, too, but I'll not list them here unless you specifically request them.

Not quite what you are asking, but as close as I can come:
Years ago I was more willing to try books if I didn't know much about them, but after finding that doing this tended to result in reading books I didn't like.  So these days I try to very carefully vet anything I'm going to read beforehand so I know there's a good change I at least won't hate it.  (Note: I still slip up.)

But as to changing tastes I find that my tastes can change even by the minute depending on what's been right in front of me.  80s moralistic cartoon?  Sounds like fun.  Review of a fantasy game supplement?  Sounds like fun.  Someone's homebrew superhero setting?  Sounds like fun.  It's really a problem. :-p

I suppose you could say that something similar has happened to me, though I never was as solidly bound to "standard fantasy" as many were / are. I always did like to do things a little differently. The books I read, other than a few RA Salvatore and JRR Tolkien books never were fantasy, in the usual sense. Also, now that I have moved away from the D&D rules system for my own games, I think this change has sped up.

Yeah, in way this affects me, too. I think it's just an effect of getting older (like how your taste in food changes over time).
When I look at the books i read in my early teens, I notice "well... this is one and the same book, written over and over again. only the names are changed." at the last count i had about two dozen instances of the "young boy gets drawn into plot and has to save the kingdom/princess/world" book. some of those are still great and i just re-read "the letter to the king" and "the dark forest" by tonke dragt, but most of the wolfang hohlbein books ((in)famous german author) are really the same.
i still like fantasy, both new and classic, for example "the name of the wind", the locke lamora books, or the conan novels, but those are darker with deeper and less happy endings. i think i'm also simply oversaturated. each month, a dozen fantasy and "hip" vampire novels come out, one blander than the other. (on a related note: i want to punch the author of twilight in the face.) i sample most of them and i just can't force myself to overlook the clichés, the stereotypical characters and the suspicion that most authors and publishers don't actually give a shit and just crank out as many books as possible to sell while fantasy is still mainstream.
this also influences my DMing (to my players chagrin^^). my adventures tend to be more realistic, darker, more morally ambiguous, and more grotesque. i like to turn stereotypes in on themselves (one of my players *dreamt* of the horrific half machine nurses in my dark heresy game) and i have moved a long way off classic heroics. When the PCs fight through a room full of soldiers or whatever, i don't just hand them the loot list. I describe what they just did. I minute detail. Maybe the guy with the gold ring isn't dead yet, instead he's weakly calling for his mother, or the expensive necklace they took off an enemy has a portrait of his wife and their baby daughter in it. And we musn't forget the smell. ;)
in the end, my taste in reading and gaming reflects my worldview and my moods. sometimes the sun shines, sometimes people are monsters.^^

There are 'chicken and egg' occurennces here.  I'm petty sure the chages in my game and my taste in reading has mirrored each other.  My current mix is about 10% verse, 10% psych, 50% history/biography, and 30% SF-Fantasy. I jusr read a tremendous book on Ernie Pyle, and finished Stauffer's tiny-but-brilliant "Clackwise Thinking".  Rawn, Roberson, and Elliot wrote the "Golden Key", a history-rich fantasy basedd on families that have magic in their art...they are painters to the nobility.  

So as I have aged, the history of Celtricia has become more and more critical, and knowing more of the little ins-and-outs of it. The games are more skill and puzzsle driven, and the system is less forgiving and demands a better player than when I was younger.

First, yay for someone else who actually reads the Malazan book of the fallen. Its probably one of the best series written (comparable to Black Company, SoIaF) superior to WoT and blows Sword of Truth out of the water :D /end book rant.

My tastes have changed quite a bit since I started reading (read in the last 8-9 years). When I was younger I read a lot of traditional fantasy stuff (Dragonlance, Drizz't books), now I rarely nab a new book unless it looks really interesting or its really different (The Court of Air/Kingdom under the Waves as an example.) I also tend to read a lot more "darker" novels, I don't know if this is due to a trend in novels or just subconscious taste.

Science fiction has changed the same way for me. When I was younger I liked Star Wars, Star Trek and any generic science fiction novel. Now I pretty much only read hard science fiction. (one of the best novels I've ever read, and it actually scared me was Blindsight by Peter Watts).

I noticed that I read a lot more urban fantasy/ [insert type of tech]punk novels now, once again I don't know if I'd attribute this to publishing trends or taste.

Quote from: Llum****punk

What?

Quote from: Ninja D!

Quote from: Llum****punk

What?

Like steam/clock/sail/bio/manner punk. I'll edit the post to make it clearer.

Quote from: Llum

Quote from: Ninja D!

Quote from: Llum****punk

What?

Like steam/clock/sail/bio/manner punk. I'll edit the post to make it clearer.

Oh, okay. I thought you were trying to not say something offensive or dirty.

Quote from: LlumFirst, yay for someone else who actually reads the Malazan book of the fallen. Its probably one of the best series written (comparable to Black Company, SoIaF) superior to WoT and blows Sword of Truth out of the water :D /end book rant.

I am right there with you on that rant. I can't stand WOT and got disillusioned by SoT when it started using the same model as WOT.

I'm like three books behind on Malazan, but they, IMHO, are the best 'long' series of books out there. And just some of the best fantasy period out there. They can be hard to read and it takes some mental shifts to understand what is going on sometimes, but they are good. Did you know they are based on his gaming world that he ran years ago? Wish they would come out in audio unabridged format, but they would be huge files! But worth it.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the quick replies. One of the reasons this community is great.

I think I've always liked some diversity. Too much in the same vein tends to get tedious. I fluctuate between various kinds of fantasy, sci-fi, non-fiction, and the occasional classic.

BTW, finally got around to starting Daniel Abraham. Five Stars. And he gets points for brevity--in a genre where serious books often run 700+ pages, a writer that does a more normal 300ish deserves respect. His work (the Long Price Quartet) is first "traditional" fantasy I've read in a while.

I'm not sure my tastes are changing so much as they are broadening. I haven't forsaken any of my old favorites, but I've added many more books to my library shelf since I began writing the Jade Stage in late 2002, and each distinct item occupies a far smaller percentage of my palette of influences, crowded by its new neighbors.

These changes have certainly had an effect on my writing and worldbuilding styles, and I think that's for the positive. I have not been tempted to abandon the Jade Stage in favor of other projects, but the tone and direction of the setting have been subtly nudged by newer influences, and I think the result is much more interesting than it would have been otherwise.

During those years, I've picked up all sorts of influences. The dreamlike mysticism of Richard Bach, the wistful denial of the Catcher in the Rye, the gritty maneouvering of A Song of Ice and Fire, the bleak absurdity of Edward Gorey, the earthy communality of Garrison Keillor, the grungy nobility of Roger Zelazny, the beautiful nightmares of Ursula K. LeGuin, the gossamer illusions of Neil Gaiman....

I could probably dig up a few more examples, but I imagine that list is sufficient. They've driven me in often mutually-conflicting directions away from the rather unremarkable generic fantasy where I started from.

In the past six months alone, I've picked up the Dresden Files, Kurt Vonnegut, and Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell-- all of them fascinating reads in very different styles. It will be interesting to see how each one manifests subtle shifts in my writing (as I am sure each will), and to what degree.

Next on my list of books to read are plenty of Sherlock Holmes, Edgar Allen Poe, Salman Rushdie, and China Mieville. Buckle up!

Eh... I'm more or less in the same place as always, except for some minor scaling things back and toning them down a bit. Maybe a little more concern for "realism" (a meaningless term in gaming... not sure what else to call it though) and a healthier appreciation of cliche and its place in gaming. Not that I don't love the occasional absurd stuff, but I tend not to make it the centerpiece of my stuff anymore.

EDIT: In terms of reading, I'm ashamed to say that reading in my free time has dropped off a bit. I do more than enough reading for school lately. I keep wanting to get around to all the classic and iconic fantasy and scifi I missed out on the first time around.

I've added a ton of philosophy to my library in the last couple years, but am still extremely happy to read cheesy fantasy and sci-fi.  Even better is when sci-fi/fantasy and philosophy combine! (http://www.amazon.com/Stone-Canal-Novel-Fall-Revolution/dp/0812568648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235158490&sr=8-1)    

Quote from: beejazzEDIT: In terms of reading, I'm ashamed to say that reading in my free time has dropped off a bit. I do more than enough reading for school lately. I keep wanting to get around to all the classic and iconic fantasy and scifi I missed out on the first time around.

I'm more or less in the same place. Used to read all the time, but i never seem to have enough time now. Just got through H.P. Lovecraft (which you might know as i recently made a thread about it) and i continue my search and subsequent reading of classics. I luckily managed to avoid much of the really cheesy fantasy, usually dividing my attention between classical authors, such as Jules Verne and Tolkien, and whatever i could find of random fantasy books.
I can easily feel that my taste has shifted a lot. My setting alone has gone through many different incarnations based on what i liked at that point; it started out as a classical world with meddling gods, a central mountain, cliche kingdoms and stuff like that. After  i stumbled over Mieville and the Wheel of Time (which i by the way admire; except for the stupid sci-fi references) my eyes where opened to how fantasy could be so much more than knights and dragons. And now I have a distinct aversion to classical high fantasy. I do read "light litterature" though, I just prefer to get it from other genres. The australian author is sadly one of my favorite authors: his books barely require a brain to read, but by god they are exhilarating. It's like watching an action movie, only in book form. Can recommend them if you are looking to take your mind on a break for 200 pages.
Now that my rant on bad taste is over, here is what is next on my reading list: the Gone-away World, which should be good (or so i hear), More than human which one of my friends recommended, maybe Prey by Chrichton (got it cheap), and the Translated Man, a book published on lulu.com which sounds slightly Mievilléian. I have also heard a lot of praise for Malazan. I have also begun reading some non-fiction, like Bill Bryson's A short story of nearly everything (also neat) and started on Secret History of the World which is a book on esoteric religion. And some philosophy and science stuff on the side.    

Ooh, you're reading Bill Bryson? I absolutely loved A Walk in the Woods.

Haven't read much by him, but it was a neat book :)
Said the title wrong, btw, it's "a short story of nearly everything" (fixed it in the other post). Made a (too) literal translation of the title in my language...

Bryson's stuff is great.  I remember being very engaged in that book, to the exclusion of much of the outside world.

Mine have changed, but not in the same way- I used to create very 'divset' worlds, whereas now- largely due to proper education in modernist and post-modernist literature- I learn more ethocentric.  My worlds are less fluffy and sporadic, and more focused.

I still make various races, but instead of doing it for the hell of it, I create them more as a lens for focusing on conflict and difference, and demonstrating by the parallax of their various view points the chief thematic elements in my worlds, which are almost always very dark.

So now, when I come back to my old worlds... I tend to really take a hatchet to them.  Cut that pork barrel world building!  Or something like that...

Rather than discard things, though, I try to cut them apart, then hammer them back together into more focused pieces- what were ten races become one, for example, with immense complexity and depth of story and meaning.

It may look simpler after all that work, but I feel better about my results at the end of the day... after a formal art education, if there's one thing they drilled into me, it's avoiding 'kitsch'.  

My players never seem to notice it though...

Quote from: BlakeMy players never seem to notice it though...

Maybe not consciously. But elegance in design can be transparent--we notice its lack more than its presence.

Quote from: PhoenixMaybe not consciously. But elegance in design can be transparent--we notice its lack more than its presence.

That's so true.  Such as players becoming irritated when something they expected turns out to be inconsistent- plot holes, particularly when they get the player to do something he or she wouldn't have wanted to do, can be very disheartening.