I want to make a world set in far-future fantasy earth, which will be post-apocalyptic but decidedly un-dystopian. But first, I was wondering what the limitations are set by the deprivation of coal and natural gases? That is, what processes are dependent on resources the Earth-past would have long since consumed (deforestation and pollution aren't an issue), and what alternate directions might a society take? Also, under normal circumstances how long might modern structures with steel foundations last once the contemporary understanding of their maintenance is lost, and how susceptible to erosion is concrete?
As to the decay of modern buildings, see if you can find a program the BBC made a year or two ago called Life After Humans. If I remember rightly, they said the majority of what we have built will be unrecognisable after 10,000 years without maintenance.
Another thing is a large % of our energy comes from coal and natural gas, so no/little power = accelerated decline.
One thing to check out is Chernobyl, its been abandoned for about 50 years, no one lives there. Its being reclaimed by the wilderness (its the only place for a couple hundred miles to find wolves). Not too sure on the state of buildings.
Like Kindling said there are a bunch of things about looking at what would happen if humans disappeared. Life After Humans is one. I believe there is another documentary as well.
A lot of modern stuff won't last as long as things that were built by pre-industrial civilizations because stone lasts a heck of a lot longer then concrete. Concrete itself unless high end will only last like 10-20 years.
Quote from: LlumOne thing to check out is Chernobyl, its been abandoned for about 50 years, no one lives there. Its being reclaimed by the wilderness (its the only place for a couple hundred miles to find wolves). Not too sure on the state of buildings.
As I recall, the buildings were in lousy condition but mostly still standing and could be fixed. Most of the damage to them was done by looters.
Concrete is stone, and therefore will last quite a long time. The problem comes with exposed rebar. The rebar will decay, expand and contract, and generally do all sort of nasty things, erosion-wise, to the concrete. You might also want to look at Incan, Mayan, and Aztec ruins for what plant-life can do to a location.
If you're talking skyscrapers, they won't last terribly long, maybe a few centuries, depending on how well the interior of the building is weatherproofed. Shorter buildings will last longer simply because they don't have as many fatal structural points.
As far as resource depletion... Coal will be the big hurter, as without coal you've got a devil of a time making steel. Charcoal will probably take its place, though that's far more labor intensive. Rare elements such as gold, silver, gems, cobalt, etcetera will probably be exhausted in veins. This means that anyone who needs it will have to scavenge for it among the ruins. It really depends on what technology level you're looking at. If you want to rebuild society to modern times without fossil fuels, they're going to be very dependant on hydroelectric, nuclear, and wind sources of power; deforestation would be rampant, to power what coal did not, and electricity would be much more of a necessity.
Quote from: Stargate525Concrete is stone, and therefore will last quite a long time. The problem comes with exposed rebar. The rebar will decay, expand and contract, and generally do all sort of nasty things, erosion-wise, to the concrete. You might also want to look at Incan, Mayan, and Aztec ruins for what plant-life can do to a location.
Concrete is actually very little stone, its mostly portland cement and smaller aggregrate. Higher end cement (stronger) uses a higher % of stone and on occasion larger stone aggregate. I did not that higher end concrete tends to last longer.
The main danger to concrete is that it gets absolutely owned by freezing/weather. There are somet things that help with this (air content in your cement helps with cracking) but its still not anywhere as near long lasting as stone.
How far in the future are you talking about? My own setting is set 50 million years in the future and has completely reverted to a Medieval lifestyle due to a series of cataclysms wiping out all development (mythology refers to an ancient people who were destroyed by the gods for their lack of faith).
Like others said, "Life After Man" has some times for various structures' degradation. If we had a time we'd be better able to help. Also, the reasons for society's collapse would matter; if there was a huge war, then many cities could have been destroyed in the war.
I'm more of an optimist. I think that solar and nuclear power should be able to pick up the slack when oil and coal start to run out.
One word: Fusion power!
Okay, two. but still, they better get that stuff up and running because it's awesome...
But i'll admit it doesn't sound like what you are looking for.
Quote from: LlumConcrete is actually very little stone, its mostly portland cement and smaller aggregrate. Higher end cement (stronger) uses a higher % of stone and on occasion larger stone aggregate. I did not that higher end concrete tends to last longer.
The main danger to concrete is that it gets absolutely owned by freezing/weather. There are somet things that help with this (air content in your cement helps with cracking) but its still not anywhere as near long lasting as stone.
I didn't way it was, but its hardly cardboard. If the rebar is safe, and the only thing affecting it is weather, it should last quite a while.
Quote from: Stargate525Quote from: LlumConcrete is actually very little stone, its mostly portland cement and smaller aggregrate. Higher end cement (stronger) uses a higher % of stone and on occasion larger stone aggregate. I did not that higher end concrete tends to last longer.
The main danger to concrete is that it gets absolutely owned by freezing/weather. There are somet things that help with this (air content in your cement helps with cracking) but its still not anywhere as near long lasting as stone.
I didn't way it was, but its hardly cardboard. If the rebar is safe, and the only thing affecting it is weather, it should last quite a while.
Well its all relative, rebar-reinforced concrete is a very good building material because its cheap and strong. Compared to stone however it doesn't last long at all. Pyramids/Castles/All kinds of monuments wouldn't exist if they were built using rebar-reinforced concrete. I guess thats what my whole point was all along. Compared to stone it has no lasting power.
Quote from: Stargate525I didn't way it was, but its hardly cardboard. If the rebar is safe, and the only thing affecting it is weather, it should last quite a while.
the estimate is ~500 years without/with little maintenance before your average sky scraper becomes a nice pile of rubble. this does not include drastic changes in climate or natural disasters. :)
two things you can always depend on for energy: wind and the tides. both make good energy sources, but will lead to extensive windwill/turbine parks. the sun is also a good source, depending on how clean the air is.
it's pretty hard to anticipate the development of culture, but without a set social structure, humans are likely to fall into a tribal culture with "might makes right" overtones. might in this case being intellectual, physical or other things.
EDIT: there's a game called "dying earth" or something similar whcih takes place a looooooooooong time in the future. you wouldn't expect it from the title, but it's pretty lighthearted and whimsical. :)
The reason it doesn't last though is exactly what stargate mentioned. It chips over time and once the supporting rebar is exposed it does alot of damage (contraction and expansion through changing temperature and rusting due to oxidation). Pure concrete, while it won't outlast the pyramids can certainly last for a great deal of time (roman structures were made using a type of concrete and there's still plenty of them yet standing). The issue is that concrete by itself isn't strong enough to support a large modern building. Again the rebar does it in. Within 200-300 years the wear and tear because of that is going to destroy most skyscrapers. Same sort of deal for steel structures.
Onto other stuff... If you want a "normal" futuristic society I would probably look at alternate energy. Fusion is a good one. Solar and Bio as well. You might do some research into current alternative energy ideas. Wind is possible but not with current technology. It takes more energy to build and maintain a wind turbine then the turbine will ever put out.