I'm writing up a small primer on my setting for a game that I'll be starting up at the end of this month. Since I'm trying to not disallow anything in the PHBs, I need a different name for Gnomes. In my world, the name "Gnome" is used for earth fey, and the stats for the 4E Gnome (or 3E Gnome for that matter) don't fit for that. But, they do fit for the archetypical small trickster fey, so I would like a different name for them.
At the moment, all that comes to mind are "Brownie", "Leprechaun", and "Sprite". I'm not thrilled with any of those.
Oh, and please keep the suggestions reasonably close to European folk lore.
Those 3 are definitely unsuitable.
I know, how about Korrigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korrigan)? They're small Dwarf like creatures that sing like sirens (aka a Bard!). They do kill humans that fall to their song but D&D warps so much lore anyways...
If that is not to your liking, you could go for an Atomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomy)which is a very small sprite like creature with a very vague lore surrounding it.
Hope that helps!
EDIT: You could also use the name Carbuncle. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle_(mythology)) Its a small creature with a jewel on its forehead.
Nelwyn is always a possibility.
'Jerks' comes to mind.
'Antipodes' was a name for a kingdom of Dwarfs from an old english romance.
The Norwegian 'Tomte' is one I have used before, as I like the cadence.
Quote from: Vreeg's Bordeaux'Jerks' comes to mind.
Hehe, Gnome Soda Jerks, hehe!
Quote from: Vreeg's BordeauxThe Norwegian 'Tomte' is one I have used before, as I like the cadence.
I am not a fan of Tomte. It sounds... Weird.
I'm going to temporarily hijack the conversation, unfortunately myself not having anything to add to the renaming ideas.
In the spirit of this thread, I've been considering either renaming of heavily revamping my gnomes. It's virtually the only normal fantasy race in my world (second to satyrs, and they're rather uncommon), but gnomes are hard to get people excited about.
Thus, I wish to change them.
Korrigan caught my eye, and I was wondering if anybody had any weird connotations with the word? Small, flashing red eyes, fast, nice hair. A lot of pictures have them as bald pseudo-goblins. That might have to be worked around, for my needs.
I'm just curious as to what y'all think - would calling them korrigans but keeping them mostly gnomes be confusing or misleading?
Certainly not more misleading that the Gorgon of the Monster Manual.
Personally, I've found that a name doesn't make a race interesting; however, you might do a rework on the gnomes and then rename them to prevent them from being confused with standard gnomes. I remember my personal gnomes were "lake people" who built their homes into steep river banks and lake shores, and had webbed feet and could swim as well as they walked. People liked those because the gnomishness was masked.
It's just a common fact, unfortunately - people dislike gnomes. They have no niche. It's a race of little people - no, not halflings. These live underground and are earth-related - no, not dwarves...or halflings. Theire one defining characteristic, which isn't even completely DnD-related, is that they are inventors who inventions tend to explode in random, comical ways. That's something every party wants to have, right? So yeah, not the best job on WotC's part. </rant>
Gnomes were never a creature of any folklore. They were actually the personification of the Earth element in Alchemy, just as Sylphs represent Air, Salamander with Fire, and Nereids with Water. When books of alchemy became somewhat public, say the early 18th century, images and descriptions of Gnomes came to common knowledge, and only since then have they become indelibly connected with fey, which they never were before.
Quote from: Raven BloodmoonIt's just a common fact, unfortunately - people dislike gnomes. </rant>
Not always true, I for one love gnomes. As for other people who also like gnomes please see: here (http://www.gnomestew.com/).
Quote from: Gamer PrintshopGnomes were never a creature of any folklore. They were actually the personification of the Earth element in Alchemy, just as Sylphs represent Air, Salamander with Fire, and Nereids with Water. When books of alchemy became somewhat public, say the early 18th century, images and descriptions of Gnomes came to common knowledge, and only since then have they become indelibly connected with fey, which they never were before.
Perhaps this is why they are so ill-defined. Without any extensive body of lore to draw upon, people end up looking at games like Warcraft or old cartoons to figure out just what a gnome is. We just have this hazy idea of an earth-related midget that smiles too much and annoyes us on Travelocity commercials.
Thanks to norse mythology and JRR Tolkein, we all know what elves, dwarves, halflings, goblins, orcs, and trolls are like. We know what most other fantasy creatures are like thanks to the large body of common folklore and mythology from which they are drawn. But gnomes remain a comical mix of crap from other myths. Perhaps someone should take the time to properly flesh out gnomes the way elves have been. Then they might be more commonly excepted by the populous as a legitimate fantasy race meant to be taken seriously.
[blockquote=Gamer Printshop]Gnomes were never a creature of any folklore. They were actually the personification of the Earth element in Alchemy, just as Sylphs represent Air, Salamander with Fire, and Nereids with Water[/blockquote]While that's a good point, wouldn't you say that the alchemical elementals actually resembled folkloric repersentations of fey quite closely, especially once the Rosicrucians get involved a century after Paracelsus invents elementals? I'm thinking of Alexander Pope's Rape of the Lock - admittedly an 18th century poem - and how the air elementals/slyphs are pretty similar to the commonly held vision of fairies (perhaps this is why gnomes and slyphs become connected with fairies more directly later). That is to say that even if gnomes and slyphs weren't originally concieved of as fey but as elementals, they resembled fey very closely from the beginning, as opposed to the modern conception of elementals (ie anthropomorphic flames, giants made out of earth, etc).
I like dnd gnomes quite a bit. More than halflings and dwarves, in fact (or most elves).
Quote from: Raven BloodmoonQuote from: Gamer PrintshopGnomes were never a creature of any folklore. They were actually the personification of the Earth element in Alchemy, just as Sylphs represent Air, Salamander with Fire, and Nereids with Water. When books of alchemy became somewhat public, say the early 18th century, images and descriptions of Gnomes came to common knowledge, and only since then have they become indelibly connected with fey, which they never were before.
Perhaps this is why they are so ill-defined. Without any extensive body of lore to draw upon, people end up looking at games like Warcraft or old cartoons to figure out just what a gnome is. We just have this hazy idea of an earth-related midget that smiles too much and annoyes us on Travelocity commercials.
Thanks to norse mythology and JRR Tolkein, we all know what elves, dwarves, halflings, goblins, orcs, and trolls are like. We know what most other fantasy creatures are like thanks to the large body of common folklore and mythology from which they are drawn. But gnomes remain a comical mix of crap from other myths. Perhaps someone should take the time to properly flesh out gnomes the way elves have been. Then they might be more commonly excepted by the populous as a legitimate fantasy race meant to be taken seriously.
Well really the point with gnomes is that they aren't supposed to be taken seriously. They are the comic relief, the punchline, a little light-hearted spice thrown into the pot if you will.
Wikipedia helps, but you need to do quite a bit of searching. Some possible options I've come up with are Duende, Vaettir, Tomte, Kabouter, Mandragora, and Saci.
As GP said, gnomes aren't traditionally mythological creatures. They're more neo-mythical (is that possible?) then anything else. Even if they were mythological, the D&D race they'd probably be closest to would be dwarves. It's not really easy finding counterparts to this sort of thing...
Quote from: NomadicWell really the point with gnomes is that they aren't supposed to be taken seriously. They are the comic relief, the punchline, a little light-hearted spice thrown into the pot if you will.
But why must we invent an entire race just for a joke? It's just as funny if the dwarf or halfling accidentally blows himself up. As they stand, I just don't see where they add much to a setting aside from that hackneyed joke.
Quote from: Raven BloodmoonQuote from: NomadicWell really the point with gnomes is that they aren't supposed to be taken seriously. They are the comic relief, the punchline, a little light-hearted spice thrown into the pot if you will.
But why must we invent an entire race just for a joke? It's just as funny if the dwarf or halfling accidentally blows himself up. As they stand, I just don't see where they add much to a setting aside from that hackneyed joke.
And dwarves don't add much to a setting aside from ale, beards, and forges. Likewise elves add little outside nature and mysticism. Gnomes as I see them are light hearted and technically brilliant. The Gnomes I have used in the past were respectful of nature but lovers of technological innovation. They blended the dwarven inventor attitude with the elven natural outlook without becoming something just in between the two. The thing I think that helped them stay away from being the missing link was that light-heartedness. They were carefree, not taking life too seriously. On that note I think that you can't always have a serious and/or dour setting. Sometimes a joke is good, life isn't all grime and filth (and gritty doesn't equal realistic regardless of what some people claim). A Gnome is that anchor to the less serious side, a good way to remind people who take the game too seriously that it is still just a game. They are also great for playing the aspiring creator or the curious explorer. I think in a word for me gnomes are curiosity. That their curiosity often lands them in trouble (usually of the humorous nature) in my opinion adds to them as a group, makes them more real.
My first suggestion was a Willow reference for everyone cool enough to not recognize it.
I would like to second Mandragora, I think its a cool word.
Quote from: NomadicAnd dwarves don't add much to a setting aside from ale, beards, and forges. Likewise elves add little outside nature and mysticism. Gnomes as I see them are light hearted and technically brilliant. The Gnomes I have used in the past were respectful of nature but lovers of technological innovation. They blended the dwarven inventor attitude with the elven natural outlook without becoming something just in between the two. The thing I think that helped them stay away from being the missing link was that light-heartedness. They were carefree, not taking life too seriously. On that note I think that you can't always have a serious and/or dour setting. Sometimes a joke is good, life isn't all grime and filth (and gritty doesn't equal realistic regardless of what some people claim). A Gnome is that anchor to the less serious side, a good way to remind people who take the game too seriously that it is still just a game. They are also great for playing the aspiring creator or the curious explorer. I think in a word for me gnomes are curiosity. That their curiosity often lands them in trouble (usually of the humorous nature) in my opinion adds to them as a group, makes them more real.
But as you've just stated, while dwarves and elves might not add anything, gnomes have to copy both of these nothings to get an identity. Also, you completely missed my point, apparently, since I specifically said that you don't need gnomes to add humor. In no way did I say that the game shouldn't have humor, just that it doesn't need to revolve around a race of explosion-inclined midgets.
As for the lack of anything added by dwarves and elves, there's a reason many people just don't have those. They both (as wella s halflings) represent different archtypes of humans, so there's no real reason for either of them in a fantasy setting, either. People just feel inclined to include them, and at least each one has a fleshed out, understandable niche in the game.
Back on Topic: I like Korrigan. Especially if they are more based off of the folklore. Interesting stuff that.
Quote from: Raven BloodmoonAs for the lack of anything added by dwarves and elves, there's a reason many people just don't have those. They both (as well as halflings) represent different archtypes of humans, so there's no real reason for either of them in a fantasy setting, either. People just feel inclined to include them, and at least each one has a fleshed out, understandable niche in the game.
As I stated above about dwarves being part human. Every single standard race is a representation of one part of human nature. That's why I rarely use them (only pulling them out for players that really want them). And again, the gnomes have just as much of a niche as all the others. Just as stereotypical as any other race, but its there. They embody curiosity and humor just like elves embody aloofness and nobility or dwarves embody steadfastness and grandeur. Of course this all depends on how you portray a race but for simplicities sake we're talking classic forms here.
Quote from: Raven BloodmoonCertainly not more misleading that the Gorgon of the Monster Manual.
It's funny, but I have this very sure feeling that I read about them being called gorgons in one other place unrelated to D&D.
As for the gnome thing:
Uldas: From northern Scandinavia, these guys live under the icy ground, and if you pitch your tent in the wrong place it blocks their doors and they might take revenge by poisoning your reindeer. And they need to get out because they're the ones who feed the animals that are hibernating.
Hobgoblins: Kinda ugly but normally good-natured. Feed them and they'll do their chores for you. Don't treat them well and they'll play pranks. (Kobolds seem similar.)
Pixie: They're described as having red hair, up-turned noses, and wide mouths, plus really ugly babies. People have to leave them offerings to keep them from playing pranks.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawUldas: From northern Scandinavia, these guys live under the icy ground, and if you pitch your tent in the wrong place it blocks their doors and they might take revenge by poisoning your reindeer. And they need to get out because they're the ones who feed the animals that are hibernating.
I really like that one
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KabouterKabouter[/url] or Vittra, though these tend to be more malicious.
Despite my mention on the origins of Gnomes, I prefer gnomes to halflings, and most elves, myself. And I don't think of gnomes as "tinkers" that was an invention of Dragonlance, which I never played nor cared to play myself.
Somewhere on these forums, I mention my gnomes of the Gnomic Syndicate, a racial thieves guild where their practice of illusion, skills in gem-cutting, and otherwise sneaky nature makes them ideal for such an organization. I actually conceived the idea of these kinds of gnomes, before the Star Trek's invention of the Ferengi, but I think of my gnomes as very similar to Ferengi in culture, lore and practices.
GP
PS: I have a copy of Katherine Briggs' Encyclopedia of Fairies, and I'll look in there to find other names for your gnomes, and maybe post tomorrow. Off the top of my head, I can think of Dunnies, Red Caps, Blue Caps, Oakmen, Pechs, Bogles - got a few more, but can't think of them.
Quote from: Nomadicfor simplicities sake we're talking classic forms here.
Classic forms would be those most commonly depicted in roleplay media. Orcs are also a recent construct, that doesn't stop them from having what would be considered a vanilla style Orc. Same goes for Gnomes.
Also does anyone else support me in thinking that kap should call them Semongs?
Quote from: NomadicQuote from: SilvercatMoonpawUldas: From northern Scandinavia, these guys live under the icy ground, and if you pitch your tent in the wrong place it blocks their doors and they might take revenge by poisoning your reindeer. And they need to get out because they're the ones who feed the animals that are hibernating.
There certainly different from the usual prankster types. A definite contrast between being nasty and being kind. (And the picture of them has them wearing red and blue outfits with caps, having bushy bears, and the most unusual characteristic they seem to have a goofy grin of pointed teeth.)
I think, though, if Kap wants a trickster fairy name he can just pick any of them. It seems that the definition of "fairy/fey" seems to be "trickster".
As an aside note trolls make a very good substitute for orcs because troll women sometimes look like pretty humans, leading easily to half-trolls.
Alright, I guess I need to define what I'm going to be using Gnomes as in my game. To make things easy on myself, I'm using the 4E stats, where they are fey with illusion and invisibility powers. They are meant to represent the numerous small trickster fey in many legends.
I don't want a name that is too hard to recognize, as all of my other names are generally broader known. I don't want to use "gnome" itself because I am using that (along with salamander, sylph, and undine) as an elemental fey.
The trickster/illusionist thing just isn't fitting "earth spirit" in my mind. "Sprite" is the running favorite amongst my group, so that's probably what I'm going to go with. I'm not going to be using the tinkerer aspect of gnomes in my setting, as my Dwarves and my Tritons already have inventiveness covered (dwarves have figured out steam power, tritons are chemists).
That being the case, Redcaps rather fit. If I recall, folklore held that they're hats made them invisible and prevented them from turning to stone in the sun. They were also quite the pranksters in the fey-sense (of crap, now i'm totally lost and will probably die).
What were traditional gnomes like? Looking over my plans for my Fey races, I do have room to use gnomes if I also use salamanders, sylphs, and undines. My only worry is the current stealthy, invisible-turning, illusionist magic focused gnomes don't quite fit what an "earth spirit" should be.
As GP said, traditional gnomes weren't like anything. They were just representative of an aspect. As for more modern traditional the illusionist trickster is the general style. I actually think that style is fine, fey do enjoy a good prank and come across as mysterious. Of course you would want to add more to that to make them earthy (like that thing about cursing those who block their burrows) but overall it fits just fine with the fey style.