just saw it. I just have to say...
[spoiler]:wtf:[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Okay, seriously]
We already know the marvel universe revolves solely around Wolverine. I don't need a 100 minute exec wank telling me exactly how he's connected to everybody. Why doesn't anybody remember their first metting with him, anyway? speaking of memory...
Maybe this is a simple matter of semantics here, but somehow, I'm not sure adamantium bullets count as "memory implants". Okay, so technically, it did affect his memory, and technically, it was implanted in his brain, but that's not quite the point, is it?
Also, Fridge Logic at work: "he's pounding me mercilessly in the jaw! He's overpowering me, what can I do?" *gets headbutted* "wait, that's right... I got an indestrucable metal skeleton earlier this week. Hm, wonder why he didn't notice it when he was hitting my jaw..."[/spoiler]
Anybody else see this yet? Anyone have any thoughts?
[spoiler]Yeah, i saw Wolverine sunday. From the internet i gathered they had messed it up, but my brother told me it was pretty good and so did the various critics in the newspapers so i hoped the internet was wrong. But really, the movie is... cheesy. And i don't normally care about plotholes as such, but these were glaring. I get the bullet thing though, it ripped apart his brain matter and it regenerated without his memories (why anything else wasn't missing we'll never know). But the entire reasoning behind his skeleton is just silly. And why does there have to be a band of caged mutants in every one of those movies?? But generally the whole movie tried to be awesome, and never realised how much it failed at it. The effects were good though (Gambits stuff was great), and some of the stunts had a lot of potential even if they could have been made in a bit more interesting way (especially Wade's and Zero's stunts in Africa). But in general... bad movie [/spoiler]
[spoiler]I felt that the effects, especially in fight scense, were way too ostentatious. There seems to be a trend in action movies these days (I'm thinking particularly of Wanted, here) to have ridiulously over-the-top uber-warriors. Like the earlier scenes with Wade and Zero... they're just annoyingly powerful, and so damn smug on top of it, they really, really annoy me. Kind of a DBZ quality to them, somehow, that stupid "I'm so cool I don't even care" thing, probably exemplified when Wolverine walks towards the camera with the helicopter exploding behind him. Ugh.
I thought that taken overall the movie was OK. Probably better than X3, but a lot worse than X1/X2, both of which I really enjoyed. Hugh Jackman is a good actor, in my opinion, but the Wolverine character is kind of boring before he loses his memory; he's virtually unkillable so there's not a heck of a lot of tension in any of the fight scenes, and the you-killed-my-lover revenge storyline has been done to death. I liked the moon/wolverine fable and the whole scheme surrounding his seduction, and I liked Stryker's performance, but mostly the plot was pretty rambling... Characterization was also very poor, in general. Part of the reason the original X-Men movies were so good was that they emphasized the ambiguity surrounding Xavier vs. Magneto, to the point where we almost sympathize with Magneto's point of view, in places - we have an idealistic villain. In this case, with the exception of the very underplayed "my son is a mutant aaah" motivation of Stryker, the villains were 2D typical comic book baddies whose only real agenda seemed to be "let's be evil."
And then there's Deadpool... sigh. I don't know a ton about the character, but from what I do know, they screwed up royally with their presentation of Deadpool. He's known explicitly as The Merc With The Mouth so why make him silent? And Deadpool isn't supposed to have cyclops' powers, or will-i.am's teleportation either (and don't get me started on will... when he delared "I'll be coming with you" to Wolverine I groaned). I'm not a comic purist by any means, but they really butchered this guy, who I belive is quite beloved by his fans... bad move.
Overall, my favorite scenes in the movie by far were the bits with Dominic Monaghan as Bolt, who gets wonderfully eccentric after his Team X days and joins the circus, filling his trailer with light bulbs and electric train sets. I think I'd have rather watched the Bolt spinoff movie.
My other favorite parts were the bits outside the base in Nigeria, which were filmed at UBC (Vancouver), where I just graduated. That building (Buchannan Tower) is the arts faculty tower where professors have offices - I've been there many, many times, and it was fun to see Victor scale it. UBC architecture is often jokingly referred to as bunkereqsue and when the film crews showed up and started erecting large razorwire walls and parking armored cars in front of our buildings it seemed oddly approriate. Ironically they filmed those parts in December/January and it snowed - not exactly what you'd expect for Nigerian weather! Also the high school that cylcops decimates with his laser-sight was my girlfriend's, who said it was very amusing watching her old school get destroyed.[/spoiler]
On a sale of 'Ang Lee's Hulk' being a 1 and 'Dark Knight' being a 10, where does this movie rank?
I'd say about 4. Spider-Man 1 or Iron Man I'd give 7, X2 I'd give 8, Catwoman I'd give -1, and Batman Begins I'd give 9...
Quote from: SteerpikeI'd say about 4. Spider-Man 1 or Iron Man I'd give 7, X2 I'd give 8, Catwoman I'd give -1, and Batman Begins I'd give 9...
That bad huh?
Fun fluff and lots of action but mediocre writing, some annoying stuff, and a vague feeling of "why was this movie necessary?" If you enjoyed X3 you'll probably like this one. If you liked X1/2 but hated X3 (as many people do) then this one's not exactly a return to the glory days of the franchise.
Quote from: SteerpikeFun fluff and lots of action but mediocre writing, some annoying stuff, and a vague feeling of "why was this movie necessary?" If you enjoyed X3 you'll probably like this one. If you liked X1/2 but hated X3 (as many people do) then this one's not exactly a return to the glory days of the franchise.
The movie is necessary for Fox to keep the X-Men license.
Hmm... I wasn't a huge fan of X-3, of course my biggest complaint was that they killed Cyclops off but, that was a casting problem (the actor decided to star in the Superman movie instead). Still, X-3 was the weakest of the X-Men movies. I'll probably still see the movie (I enjoy Hugh Jackman as an actor) but I won't expect a masterpiece.
I'd say that's about right. It's certainly not unbearable, but it's not an Oscar-winning epic, either.
[spoiler]I understand how the memory loss worked on a technical level, but it was handled much differently then the top-secret, high-tech false memory implants in the comics. I don't think I would have been too annoyed by the way they handled it in the movie, but given the quality of the rest of the movie, it felt way too fiat-ish.
Deadpool I was severely disappointed with. I don't know too much about the character, but I do know that they butchered him. The only powers he should have are the healing factor, and the power to never shut up no matter what the situation. He isn't some weird, silent super-amalgam of every mutant under the sun.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=On the effects]These were, on a technical level, very well done. A lot of them were too over the top (Gambit saving Wolverine on Three Mile Island), though. Mu biggest complaint with the effects was the adamantium claws; these were done much better in X-Men. The scene in particular that bothered me the most with this was the bathroom scene. Here, it's very obvious that they're pure CGI, as opposed to X-Men's CGI-enhanced hand claws. This is true even in the shots where you can't see Logan's hands, and CGI wasn't needed whatsoever.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=But on a good note]I did enjoy the acting. I felt that the actors did the best job they could, given what they had to work with in terms of the script and director. Gambit was well played, especially in the casino. If Wade was created completely from scratch with no connection to Deadpool, I think I would have enjoyed him a bit more, too. As always, Jackman is great.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I did not see the movie, but I am a Deadpool fan; so to all those who say "they don't know much about the character", let me fill you in so you can tell me just how butchered the character is. He started as a troubled young hill billy kid, getting into fights, acting like a punk ass, fighting with his dad. He ended up in the military; he was in some sort of elite special forces deal for awhile; a real badass. Then he got cancer. He didn't have much time left to live, and the Weapon X project (same folks who made wolverine) offered him a possible cure. He joined up, and they started to do experiments on him.... they succeeded in giving him wolverine like regenerative powers, but there was a problem. He quickly lost his regenerative powers, but retained some kind of nasty skin disease, like a cancer, that made him ugly as hell. He was basically a giant walking scar, was slowly deteriorating, dying, and didn't really want to go on living. Unfortunately, he ended up in the Weapon X mental health facility for super-heros. An extremely familiar story developed ("One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest") and while he suffered much abuse at the hands of his captors, he withstood and remained irreverantly chipper and upbeat; a looney house prankster with a death wish. He wanted nothing more than to die, but he was denied, being a valuable experimental subject. Eventually some people close to him were executed, for no other reason than to cause him pain. He finally flipped out and went Rambo on the mental hospital, killed a whole bunch of the staff, tried to die, but found that he couldn't; his regenerative powers had finally kicked in. He escaped and has been making money and cracking jokes ever since. He's not afraid to shoot people! Yay![/spoiler]
To give you an idea of how much they ruined him, here's what they kept from the comics:
Quote from: V - L0X[spoiler]He ended up in the military; he was in some sort of elite special forces deal for awhile; a real badass... and the Weapon X project (same folks who made wolverine) started to do experiments on him.... they succeeded in giving him wolverine like regenerative powers ... he suffered much abuse.[/spoiler]
Also, they kept his first name. I don't think they ever referred to him as Deadpool.
Here's what they added:
[spoiler]He has optic blasts now! And a natural teleporting power! Oh, and you know how Wolverine has adamantium claws that come out of the back of his hands? Well Deadpool has adamantium
katanas that come out of
his hands! Everyone knows how epic katanas are! The stitches on his mouth make him silent, too. That's so much cooler then cancer![/spoiler]
As a comic-related sidenote, I always thought that his scarring was the cancer itself. The way I understood it, the cancer cells gained the healing factor as well, so they could spread, but are rendered benign. Losing the healing factor would cause a relapse of malignancy, which would quickly kill him.
Wow Doritos, that was painfully accurate.
Quote from: JharvissWow Doritos, that was painfully accurate.
Fritos :p
Quote from: Elemental_Elf..I wasn't a huge fan of X-3, of course my biggest complaint was that they killed Cyclops off but, that was a casting problem (the actor decided to star in the Superman movie instead)...
Actually, if you ever get a chance to read the first scripts of the movie when Singer was still at the helm, you'll find that Singer had also planned to kill off Cyclops in the first 10 minutes. No one knows why, as Marsden had not yet, at the time, accepted a role in Superman. Probably just a lame excuse for some extra drama, and also a chance so that at the end, Wolverine could yet again be the hero, instead of Cyclops, who should have been there at the end with Phoenix.
Fritos, Doritos, point is there are too many snack foods represented on these boards!
Hum hum, yeah.
On the Cyclops note, they needed to kill him off. Nobody liked him, so he was better off dead.
IMHO
A Funny review of Wolverine! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg8xdis9SVk) (contains SPOILERS!)
EDIT:
Quote from: JharvissOn the Cyclops note, they needed to kill him off. Nobody liked him, so he was better off dead.
Let's differentiate a dislike of the Actor and a dislike of the Character. Cyclops is awesome. The actor? Not so much.
Harsh reviews, here. I liked it. I didn't love it, but I liked it.
I'll try to throw a rating for it on the wiki if nobody beats me to it.
Edit: Oh, and there's buzz about a Deadpool spinoff. [spoiler]Hope they tune down his powers. Even Wolverine movies are iffy because he's so unstoppable.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=unstoppable]Re:Wolverine: I don't think the powerset is unstoppable, I think he's unstoppable because of his protagonist-shields. Really, WHY can he withstand phoenix-disentegration? Why didn't phoenix just hold him helpless in middair? Because he's a baddass protagonist, not because of his power-set.
There's a lot of things that could hypothetically stop him, like i don't know a mud-pit, drowning, things that limit his mobility; but they're not used because it's much cooler to see him walking thru explosions and bullets. Of course I haven't seen the movie, it could be 2 hours of logan trapped in wet concrete for all i know. :)[/spoiler]
Healing Factor. Depending on how powerful any given writer makes this, yes, it is indeed his power set that makes him unstoppable. The dude's practically immortal.
I always thought Wolverine could sustain a ton of damage but could never regenerate anything beyond a minor injury to his brain.
First of all I must say I am not a big fan of x-men or any other superhero movies (except the tv show Heroes, I love that show) but i just saw Wolverine yesterday, and I really enjoyed it.
But the holes in the movie were obvious to even me, and I never even tried to read the comics or payed much attention to the other three x-men movies, so that must mean its pretty bad for die hard fans.
Quote from: Elemental_ElfI always thought Wolverine could sustain a ton of damage but could never regenerate anything beyond a minor injury to his brain.
Didn't he get shot in the head in one of the movies from the trilogy?
But i agree that immortality is sort of boring...
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowQuote from: Elemental_ElfI always thought Wolverine could sustain a ton of damage but could never regenerate anything beyond a minor injury to his brain.
Didn't he get shot in the head in one of the movies from the trilogy?
But i agree that immortality is sort of boring...
He most likely did... However, from the sounds of it, this movie made Wolverine's power creep palpable.
He was shot in the second movie, but his adamantine skull normally protects his brain.
Quote from: JharvissHe was shot in the second movie, but his adamantine skull normally protects his brain.
Hmm, how does one kill Wolverine? You can't really chop his head off Highlander style since his spine is also adimantium... I suppose you could deprive him of Oxygen but that's lack luster and boring... I guess you could melt all his flesh off with an acid chucker or burn it off with a flame thrower... You could rip the adimantium out of his body Magneto style...
Meh, Wolverine's healing power went from cool to needlessly powerful.
Ripping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him, but it probably would be a good start. See, this is part of why I insist that in a fight against Batman, Wolverine would win:
1.) Unlike Batman, Wolverine would fight until one or both of them were dead.
2.) Wolverine can't die.
Even without the adamantium, that gives Wolvie a HUGE advantage over Bats.
That said, I still think Wolverine, when done right, is an incredibly compelling character. I just don't think that because of his power set; I think it because of his incredibly tortured past, and his terminally unfulfilled desire of a quiet life, free of Sabertooth, Magneto, etc. I think that's where the true conflict in the character lies.
QuoteHmm, how does one kill Wolverine? You can't really chop his head off Highlander style since his spine is also adimantium... I suppose you could deprive him of Oxygen but that's lack luster and boring... I guess you could melt all his flesh off with an acid chucker or burn it off with a flame thrower... You could rip the adimantium out of his body Magneto style...
Meh, Wolverine's healing power went from cool to needlessly powerful.
I vote wet concrete. But basically any circumstance where "i can cut anything and heal anything!" doesn't matter.
I feel like this conversation on how to kill Wolverine will be akin to many of the conversations I've read about how to kill a tarrasque.
I have issues with Wolverine's character on a variety of levels, but one of my biggest issues is the fact that his godmode power plays against most people's issues with godmode powers. I know a lot of people who get frustrated with Phoenix- or Apocalypse-type characters because they're unstoppable. This isn't so bad as enemies, but as heroes, it's the worst. Who here likes superman, and for those of you who don't, is it because he's too powerful?
My issue with Wolverine is that he's a superman character, but his abilities only irritate us in the logical way, not the emotional. When we see him being torn to shreds and shot at and everything else, our emotions see him as vulnerable and able to be killed. Our logical side, of course, knows otherwise.
I'm just saying I don't like Wolverine because he's a godmode, superhero-esque character and not many people realize it.
[blockquote=jHARVISS]I'm just saying I don't like Wolverine because he's a godmode, superhero-esque character and not many people realize it[/blockquote]
Much in line with many posts in other threads in the past, But said somewhat differently...
I liked the concept and character of Wolverine for quite a while. But the continual power creep that writers have been unable to resist the temptation for has totally turned me off to him. I understand that when you create something that is not owned by youself (as comic-book, tv, and movie writers do), you run the risk of it going off in directions you do not expect. And the longer it stays popular, the more that writers want to put their own stamp on it and the ownership wants to cash in.
Anyone can read the history, so I won't go into that. But while I liked many of the layers that writers added to his past, such as the incredibly slow and subtle way his time in Japan was revealed in the comic books, this power creep makes him less human and accessble.
I think Wolverine's much more interesting after his amnesia, when he (and the audience) know far less about his powers and limits. Like, when you watch X-Men 1 (which I did yesterday, man what a good movie), if you don't know a ton about the character, then when the barkeeper puts a shotgun to Wolverine's head, we're actually quite nervous about it. When Rogue tells him she saved his life and he replies "no you didn't" we actually begin to wonder about his powers and his limitations.
[spoiler]Versus in X-Men: Origins, where in the opening credits we see both Wolverine and Sabretooth getting shot in the first few minutes of the film...[/spoiler]
Just saw the movie today. It was NOT as bad as everyone lead me to believe. Granted it wasn't Star Trek or Watchmen great but it was still enjoyable.
[spoiler]Ok, I hated the guy they got to play Gambit. He came off as a brash punk, rather than a true Creole. He didn't even keep his accent most of the time!
The plot seemed to move rather quickly, too quickly.
I hated Deadpool. Such a dumb adaptation.
Sabertooth was pretty cool, better than the one that appeared in X-1.
Wolverine's bone claws seemed lame, and it was even lamer that his adimantium claws were so sharp and had such fine edges. [/spoiler]
Quote from: Elemental_Elf[spoiler]Ok, I hated the guy they got to play Gambit. He came off as a brash punk, rather than a true Creole. He didn't even keep his accent most of the time! [/spoiler]
Have you read the comic?
[spoiler=As for Deadpool]Good god, seriously. i thought this game was Marvel Universe, not GURPS...[/spoiler]
Quote from: Rorschach FritosHave you read the comic?
Which one?
Quote from: Rorschach Fritos[spoiler=As for Deadpool]Good god, seriously. i thought this game was Marvel Universe, not GURPS...[/spoiler]
It's worse than Grups... It was an atrocity.
Quote from: Elemental_ElfQuote from: Rorschach FritosHave you read the comic?
Which one?
Any with him in it. Seriously, that's who he is as a character.
Quote from: Rorschach Fritos[spoiler=As for Deadpool]Good god, seriously. i thought this game was Marvel Universe, not GURPS...[/spoiler]
It's worse than Grups... It was an atrocity. [/quote]
Admit it, it was GURPS. What other system could handle that sort of character design?
Quote from: Rorschach FritosRipping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him,
I think it would. If you ripped it all out it would come as one big skeleton shaped chunk of metal, which means that his brain would have to come with it. (Unless you rip it out from behind, and his brain escapes through the eye sockets. (Which I highly doubt would happen.) Also his main weapon (claws) would go bye bye.
Yeah. Just got back, I don't see the big deal. Mind, I'm not a knowledgebase of the canon, so that might be it.
Quote from: Loch BelthaddQuote from: Rorschach FritosRipping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him,
I think it would. If you ripped it all out it would come as one big skeleton shaped chunk of metal, which means that his brain would have to come with it. (Unless you rip it out from behind, and his brain escapes through the eye sockets. (Which I highly doubt would happen.) Also his main weapon (claws) would go bye bye.
Happened in the comics. Wolverine survived.
He also got his adamantium back eventually.
Hell, he's been reduced to a charred skeleton and got better.
Quote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: Loch BelthaddQuote from: Rorschach FritosRipping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him,
I think it would. If you ripped it all out it would come as one big skeleton shaped chunk of metal, which means that his brain would have to come with it. (Unless you rip it out from behind, and his brain escapes through the eye sockets. (Which I highly doubt would happen.) Also his main weapon (claws) would go bye bye.
Happened in the comics. Wolverine survived.
He also got his adamantium back eventually.
Hell, he's been reduced to a charred skeleton and got better.
Right, exactly. It did some serious damage, sure, and it left him incredibly vulnerable, but he did survive.
Also, his claws wouldn't go; he'll still have the bone claws. I always preferred boneclaw wolvie, though.
Quote from: Rorschach FritosQuote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: Loch BelthaddQuote from: Rorschach FritosRipping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him,
I think it would. If you ripped it all out it would come as one big skeleton shaped chunk of metal, which means that his brain would have to come with it. (Unless you rip it out from behind, and his brain escapes through the eye sockets. (Which I highly doubt would happen.) Also his main weapon (claws) would go bye bye.
Happened in the comics. Wolverine survived.
He also got his adamantium back eventually.
Hell, he's been reduced to a charred skeleton and got better.
Right, exactly. It did some serious damage, sure, and it left him incredibly vulnerable, but he did survive.
Also, his claws wouldn't go; he'll still have the bone claws. I always preferred boneclaw wolvie, though.
huh? no skeleton = no bones = no bone claws.
Quote from: Loch BelthaddQuote from: Rorschach FritosQuote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: Loch BelthaddQuote from: Rorschach FritosRipping his adamantium out wouldn't kill him,
I think it would. If you ripped it all out it would come as one big skeleton shaped chunk of metal, which means that his brain would have to come with it. (Unless you rip it out from behind, and his brain escapes through the eye sockets. (Which I highly doubt would happen.) Also his main weapon (claws) would go bye bye.
Happened in the comics. Wolverine survived.
He also got his adamantium back eventually.
Hell, he's been reduced to a charred skeleton and got better.
Right, exactly. It did some serious damage, sure, and it left him incredibly vulnerable, but he did survive.
Also, his claws wouldn't go; he'll still have the bone claws. I always preferred boneclaw wolvie, though.
huh? no skeleton = no bones = no bone claws.
No, magneto just ripped the adimantium off the bones and pulled it out through the skin.
(http://wolverine.x-knights.com/fullsize/wolverine165.jpg)
Key point: his skeleton is adamantium-laced, not pure adamantium. He still has bone in him.