Aromos the Plane-City
So my friend and I began working on thinking up a nice interesting Campaign setting and we think we have a winner. The idea stemmed from the thought of what a city the size of a universe (or in DnD terms, a Plane) would be like. Aromos is that city. However, it is an initially empty one. Whatever or whoever built the city is long gone now. Instead, all of the septillions of inhabitants are migrants from other planes, domains, and demi-planes.
So this plane is built a lot like the points of light campaign setting. We have pockets of densely populated communities surrounded by a blanket of uninhabited buildings. Instead of this wilderness consisting of forests and valleys it has towering buildings and streets. It's as though you removed every person in Tokyo and moved the population of Springfield, Illinois there. Everything has been left behind by the previous owners, a new city filled with mystery.
We also are using "bag of holding" style buildings. A lot of these buildings look 1000 sq ft on the outside, but once you're inside they are actually 1000 sq miles! and these aren't just huge warehouses, they are filled with all sorts of weird terrain (forests, hills, grass) it's speculated that these may have served as holding areas from animals from across the multiverse.
Aromos also has a huge underground, vault-like fortresses that stretch deep beneath the surface, sewers, and even a huge underground ocean.
When thinking about where this city came from, a few ideas came up:
* This is a Genesis style spell gone wild.
* This is the creation of a long lost uber god
* This is the physical manifestation of a long lost uber god's mind.
* It was created by a super-race who have since moved on.
So what do you think? Any thoughts? This is a huge Ecumenopolis the size of a whole universe, what else does it need?
Quote from: Gnome NachosSo what do you think? Any thoughts? This is a huge Ecumenopolis the size of a whole universe, what else does it need?
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EDIT: This is what I get for skimming through the post instead of actually reading it. Those "pocket-plane" buildings are the obvious solution to the food supply problem. You just need to make sure they get enough sunlight in there.
:explode:
[/note]
Food. If the entire plane is covered by urban infrastructure, there will be no room for pastures, hunting grounds nor farmland. But people still need to eat. Backyard gardens and rooftop plantations can provide some, but they could never hope to feed the sort of population that the city's structures were made to house. Since only some parts of the city is supposed to be inhabited, the people would have it in their interest to tear down unused buildings to make space for farmland, to more effectively feed themselves. One way you could solve this is by making it easier (and cheaper!) to just import food from other planes - which pretty much means making planar travel a readily accessible commodity.
Also, sanitation. Urban settlements tend to have problems with accumulating waste (garbage as well as natural excrement from the denizens) which has to be effectively disposed of, lest you end up with some pretty serious health hazards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naples_waste_management_issue). In an ecumenopolis this would be even more problematic than in just a generic big city. The key question is:
where does all the waste go? Simply having a sewer network or the like won't answer it, as a sewer still has to lead to some place.
to answer those. This is a society Built by Dungeons and Dragons style magic. So all the dimensional buildings would need is an enchantment that creates a "sun". inside the building, probably with some sort of "night" setting.
As for Sanitation, I've been leaning towards using constructs called Servitors that are like tiny golems. They run around and keep everything nice, so you won't see any crumbling buildings or anything like that (unless the servitors in a region have been corrupted) DUN DUN DUN!
You may want to look at Planescape for inspiration.
Quote from: Gnome NachosSo what do you think? Any thoughts? This is a huge Ecumenopolis the size of a whole universe, what else does it need?
The first thing that came to mind is, honestly... what's the point?
I know that people like to think big, particularly in fantasy, where anything goes. Big things are impressive, and big numbers like "septillions" are fun to throw around. But still... you've basically created something that could every decently developed campaign setting inside of it and still have room for a few thousand more. The vastness is so vast, it starts to seem comical.
Your average PCs would have a rough time completely exploring a megalopolis the size of a continent, never mind something that filled an entire planet. That goes double if there are "pocket plane" spaces inside of it... not that there isn't enough room to begin with.
Quote from: sparkletwistQuote from: Gnome NachosSo what do you think? Any thoughts? This is a huge Ecumenopolis the size of a whole universe, what else does it need?
The first thing that came to mind is, honestly... what's the point?
I know that people like to think big, particularly in fantasy, where anything goes. Big things are impressive, and big numbers like "septillions" are fun to throw around. But still... you've basically created something that could every decently developed campaign setting inside of it and still have room for a few thousand more. The vastness is so vast, it starts to seem comical.
Your average PCs would have a rough time completely exploring a megalopolis the size of a continent, never mind something that filled an entire planet. That goes double if there are "pocket plane" spaces inside of it... not that there isn't enough room to begin with.
The point my friend, is the same reason you climb a mountain. Because it's there. Or in this case, because it's not there.
Now, that said, you're absolutely right. It is big and throwing around words like Septillion is crazy (that's the population of bugs on earth by the way). Which is why I kind of want to avoid the Coruscant or Ravnica look, and that is that this is a huge city and every building is just full of people.
Instead, this is a tomb city. It is filled with emptiness, abandoned by those who once owned it. The only people who live there now are immigrants from other planes. Those other planes include all other campaign settings too btw. In my multiverse (maybe not yours) I like the idea that all cosmologies fit into it (the true meaning of infinite). So, in this city campaign, a player could play a Drow Swordmage from Waterdeep who found one of the many planar portals to Aromos.
As for the scale of this setting, it's up to the DM how you run it. Right now, I see 3 or so different styles of play.
You can be a local hero, the infinite city-plane is just in the background. You and the PCs stay in the general area, maybe even in the same 10 block radius. This is good for more political games
You can have a huge sprawling game. The adventure takes you all over the map, to different communities (each with different cultural identities) as you hunt for something important.
You can explore the mystery of the city itself. Go into the underground, the dimensional buildings, who were the titans who lived here and where did they go?
Now a thought came up earlier about the city itself. It's not a city that was built by man. It is a being. A living city. Does it have an intelligence? Not the kind that we would recognize. But it is designed very much like a living creature, it has Cells (buildings), Arteries (sewers), antibodies (automatons), and nerve centers (the flow of magic). Even though it's body is made of concrete and steel instead of flesh and blood, does that make it lifeless?
Quote from: XXsiriusXXYou may want to look at Planescape for inspiration.
I definitely love Planescape and I have read through it countless times. I think though, I want to avoid some of the whimsy, and I definitely don't want to copy them. But Sigil is of course a big inspiration.
Hey. I made a project akin to this a few months ago, although i'm not sure how much i will continue working on it. Anyway, although it is meant to be less overtly magical/DnDish, it might still provide some inspiration:
http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?64427.post
What you need is politics. Organizations, religions, merchants, and all sorts of other groups squabbling over the resources. Otherwise the city will just be scenery, and all scenery will get boring after a while. All gaming thrives on conflict, after all - and different factions will help you generate such conflicts.
So what kind of resources might there be?
- Food is an obvious one. Sure, the terrain in the warehouses can be used to create food - but that will require no less effort than in "normal" worlds. Owning the land in those warehouses means controlling the food supplies from those - and even if that's not possible, controlling the access points allows you to tax everything that goes into or out of them. Different pocket planes allow you to create different food staples - and if you can establish a monopoly on one popular type of food, you can make a very handsome profit indeed.
- The same goes for any other type of raw resource which has to be extracted from the pocket planes - raw ore, ivory, silk, and whatever else you can think of. Control the access points to the pocket planes, and you can control the resource.
- Safe trade routes between the settlements. If much of the plane is uninhabited, then much of the plane is wilderness. Thus, the few trade routes that have established themselves need to be guarded. But guarding such routes requires money - either in the form of fees paid by the merchants, or by more generalized taxes taken by whatever nations will develop in such an environment.
- Hearts and Minds. Religions and political groups will vie for followers - and they might get rather pushy with those not following their own views.
Oh, and you definitely need some barbarian raiding tribes - the difference between them and urban gangs might be rather fluid...
Quote from: Jürgen HubertWhat you need is politics. Organizations, religions, merchants, and all sorts of other groups squabbling over the resources. Otherwise the city will just be scenery, and all scenery will get boring after a while. All gaming thrives on conflict, after all - and different factions will help you generate such conflicts.
So what kind of resources might there be?
- Food is an obvious one. Sure, the terrain in the warehouses can be used to create food - but that will require no less effort than in "normal" worlds. Owning the land in those warehouses means controlling the food supplies from those - and even if that's not possible, controlling the access points allows you to tax everything that goes into or out of them. Different pocket planes allow you to create different food staples - and if you can establish a monopoly on one popular type of food, you can make a very handsome profit indeed.
- The same goes for any other type of raw resource which has to be extracted from the pocket planes - raw ore, ivory, silk, and whatever else you can think of. Control the access points to the pocket planes, and you can control the resource.
- Safe trade routes between the settlements. If much of the plane is uninhabited, then much of the plane is wilderness. Thus, the few trade routes that have established themselves need to be guarded. But guarding such routes requires money - either in the form of fees paid by the merchants, or by more generalized taxes taken by whatever nations will develop in such an environment.
- Hearts and Minds. Religions and political groups will vie for followers - and they might get rather pushy with those not following their own views.
Oh, and you definitely need some barbarian raiding tribes - the difference between them and urban gangs might be rather fluid...
These are exactly what I want. Food is of course an important resource, and I can see it being treated very much like in our modern world. See, in your average DnD campaign, a village has a bunch of farmers who might bring their stock to town to try and sell. They farm to care for themselves. In this world, the farms would be privatized by corporations. They supply the seed, you come to work, then they sell the mass amounts of food at supermarkets and restaurants. It's not any different from how we handle food today. Except, perhaps, that they use Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics to speed up the process, and to make the animals bigger.
There are definitely going to be organizations. I want to avoid looking too much like the Guilds or Ravnica and the Dragonmarked houses of Eberron. So I think instead these will be more like Unions for the most part. I've always felt the mentioned guilds work well for the nobles and such, but not well for the workers. Just like a corporation. I'm also going to throw in political parties, not sure what kind though.
The setting will probably focus in on a small area, a community that is a small city. Using that as the beginning point there will also be trips to some of the other communities (like the one populated by demons, or the one populated by dark elves)
Quote from: Gnome NachosThese are exactly what I want. Food is of course an important resource, and I can see it being treated very much like in our modern world. See, in your average DnD campaign, a village has a bunch of farmers who might bring their stock to town to try and sell. They farm to care for themselves. In this world, the farms would be privatized by corporations. They supply the seed, you come to work, then they sell the mass amounts of food at supermarkets and restaurants. It's not any different from how we handle food today. Except, perhaps, that they use Wizards, Sorcerers, Druids, and Clerics to speed up the process, and to make the animals bigger.
Well, that's certainly one way of doing it. But it doesn't have to be that way - you could just as easily come up with a feudal system where the aristocracy consists of those who control the pocket plane entrances, and those who work within the pocket planes are the peasants. Of course, the peasants have a somewhat easier time in this setting, as they can just try to find another fertile pocket plane to work in... but those are likely to be in dangerous wilderness, far away from the market. So accepting some sort of feudalism might make sense - sure, you are less free, but at least you are comparatively safe in your pocket plane, as a bunch of armed soldiers guard the entrance from the dangers of the rest of the city.
QuoteThere are definitely going to be organizations. I want to avoid looking too much like the Guilds or Ravnica and the Dragonmarked houses of Eberron. So I think instead these will be more like Unions for the most part. I've always felt the mentioned guilds work well for the nobles and such, but not well for the workers. Just like a corporation. I'm also going to throw in political parties, not sure what kind though.
The setting will probably focus in on a small area, a community that is a small city. Using that as the beginning point there will also be trips to some of the other communities (like the one populated by demons, or the one populated by dark elves)[/quote]
Probably a good idea. The setting is open-ended enough, so you can always add in more settlements "beyond the horizon" as needed.
Sooner or later, you will probably want an Evil Empire bent on conquest...
Quote from: Jürgen HubertSooner or later, you will probably want an Evil Empire bent on conquest...
With that much space and that few people, I'm not sure if anything like that could really get going. There's just so absurdly much space available that anyone could just go somewhere else, pretty much.
Quote from: sparkletwistQuote from: Jürgen HubertSooner or later, you will probably want an Evil Empire bent on conquest...
With that much space and that few people, I'm not sure if anything like that could really get going. There's just so absurdly much space available that anyone could just go somewhere else, pretty much.
Sure. In our world (of Earth) the scarcity of resources is one of the leading factors of war sometimes. And in this world there is plenty of room for everyone. But what about the desires of a Dungeons and Dragons culture? What I think separates this setting from some others is that I am building it with the logic of a game rather than of reality.
So there may be a community of Vampires who want to use humanoids as cattle, or to let them loose through the city for a hunt.
There may be a community of Lawful Evil humanoid monsters who want to enslave everyone.
Then there is the Empire from a universe that is nothing but humans. They see elves, dwarves, and halflings as demon-spawn and will stop at nothing until they have eradicated them all from every universe.
Then there is the Dragon who is worshiped as a god-king, and he wants everyone to worship him so that he can ascend to godhood. Whether they worship him out of fear or love doesn't matter to him.
Then there is the gnome community that use wizards and other spellcasters as slave-weapons. A lot like in Wheel of Time with the collars.
So as you can see, there are plenty of opportunities for evil empires here. Not just because they want to expand their holdings. I believe that once you remove the want of resources, they will find more creative reasons to kill one another.
As for food. I at one point toyed with Replicator Statues. They are statues that hold platters, you walk up to them and ask for food. It summons the food. This takes care of the need for farms. Thus producing a society that has a very low peasant/commoner population. Everyone would have the ability to follow their dreams now that they don't have to farm! It'd be just like Star Trek.
In fact this is very much a fantasy star trek. Society no longer needs to hunt for food, it's given to them. They explore the universe (by walking rather than spaceship) and come into contact with new worlds and new civilizations. To boldly go where no gnome has gone before!
A question: Where do all those new people in the city come from? From other planes?
If so, are the portals still open? In that case, the politics of the home plane will have an impact on this plane. After all, the discovery of the portal will significantly upset the local power balance - and some will seek to close it...
Quote from: Jürgen HubertA question: Where do all those new people in the city come from? From other planes?
If so, are the portals still open? In that case, the politics of the home plane will have an impact on this plane. After all, the discovery of the portal will significantly upset the local power balance - and some will seek to close it...
The city is filled with immigrants from other planes. Some of these other worlds are very similar to ours, some are very different. Unfortunately, your average joe does not come to Aromos. Travel to the plane is usually not as simple as a straight portal. Sometimes it is a rare artifact that can get you to the plane. So the major population are skilled, classed NPCs (so wizards, fighters, and rogues not Adepts, warriors, and aristocrats if we're looking at this from a 3rd edition view).
Home politics definitely have an impact. But I would think that this would become a secret. A place for the modern wizard to escape and take a vacation.
Quote from: Gnome NachosHome politics definitely have an impact. But I would think that this would become a secret. A place for the modern wizard to escape and take a vacation.
From what I've read here so far, there are lots of resources to be found in that city. Which means that if there
is a reliable and comparably cheap way of getting there, people will try to make a profit with it.
And secrets have a way of getting out.
Quote from: Jürgen HubertQuote from: Gnome NachosHome politics definitely have an impact. But I would think that this would become a secret. A place for the modern wizard to escape and take a vacation.
From what I've read here so far, there are lots of resources to be found in that city. Which means that if there is a reliable and comparably cheap way of getting there, people will try to make a profit with it.
And secrets have a way of getting out.
Good point. But think about this. Do your average people in the Points of Light setting try to make money off of the Feywild? There is an abundance of resources (food, wood, fruits, animals) and it's filled with dangers. I kind of want this to be the polar opposite of the feywild, instead of nature unleashed it's city unleashed. That being said, I'm sure that in parts of the city there may be toll booths ran by bandits who will beat you up if you don't pay. Or super corporations trying to find ways to privatize and sell off aspects of the city. Or shady sellers trying to make a quick buck on strange and left behind curios.
Quote from: Gnome NachosGood point. But think about this. Do your average people in the Points of Light setting try to make money off of the Feywild? There is an abundance of resources (food, wood, fruits, animals) and it's filled with dangers.
Depends on whether there are any natives of the Feywild they can negotiate with. If some powerful Feywild entity promises to bless the local fields in exchange for, er, yearly "fertility rites", then the humans living near a crossing point might very well agree to such a deal. Other Feywild natives might be interested in songs, human craft, or even human slaves - and if the people living on the other side feel that they can deal with the Fey and get something worthwhile out of it, some kind of trade will develop.
Everybody wants something. Human or fey makes no difference.