(This is going to be a hard one to answer, so if you aren't feeling up to a brain-strainer right now you might want to come back later.)
I'm all over the place trying to create my new setting, and the problem is because I don't know what of it I need to present: I have no structure to keep me focused.
What things about a setting are important to write out for other people to see?
I don't think it really matters what kind of setting it is, so you can say whatever you think answers the question.
Theme/Struggles
(Why it is different. Why should we care. Why should we read it)
1 Paragraph Description
Excellent question.
LD's answer is pretty much what I'd have said off the top of my head. Interesting that you write a "one paragraph description." I just posted a setting without this. Maybe I should go back and edit...
If it's ethocentric, Theme is obviously most important. If it's Divset, then I conflict or differences are most important (to me). I want to know why I should stop and read it, when I could read something else.
A picture's worth a lot, honestly. The first thing I think when I click on Clockwork Jungle, is oh cool, look at the pretty jungle! Then I'm more likely to read on.
Pictures, pictures are the most important thing. Visual representations of anything and everything is always helpful in catching people's attention and holding it. Here's an example:
Quote from: The Planes of Aeolond(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/RHO1/Lehtlands.png)
The Lehtlands
- The Lehtlands is the plane of eternal day, symbolized by the sun. The Plane is comprised of an unending series of rolling hills covered by a thick carpet of grass. The skies are always clear with a scant number of fluffy clouds floating high above. The plane is inhabited by celestial creatures who guard the many cemeteries that do the landscape. The Lehtlands are ruled over by Lehta, a virtuous warrior goddess often seen in a set of golden full plate. She is the goddess of virtue, honor and battle.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/RHO1/throslands.png)
The Throslands
- The Throslands is a blasted plane of eternal night, symbolized the moon. The plane is devoid of life, thunderstorms roar overhead, the rain violently strikes the land forming torrents of flash flooding that race across the land. The plane is inhabited by all manner of undead, all of whom worship Thros the Unclean, god of undead and necromancy. When not in his necromantic palace, Thros is often seen as an old emaciated lich, with a crown made of obsidian bejeweled with the eyes of his enemies.
The latter, to me, will definitely hold my attention far more easily, and willingly, than the former.
Beyond that, maps are always good as they help people place everything they are reading. Finally, I prefer to keep things short. This is the Age of the Internet, it is no place for sweeping epics concerning the door that blocked the orcs advance into the throne room. It's a sad fact that people today want faster and faster information flow, (as evidenced by the other poster's 'Give me an into paragraph', 'why should I care'?' etc.). People want to to quickly dive in, immerse themselves, then get out and talk about it. Don't bog them down unless its really, really important. :)
Way to illustrate the point EE ;)
Couldn't resist.
Also, I agreed. Long paragraphs are hard to read on a computer screen, especially when I can easily click and make the pain go away.
Quote from: Light DragonWhy should we care.
This one always trips me up: Why am I the one trying to make you care? Shouldn't whether or not you care be based on your personal preferences?
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawQuote from: Light DragonWhy should we care.
This one always trips me up: Why am I the one trying to make you care? Shouldn't whether or not you care be based on your personal preferences?
In a perfect world, yes however this isn't a perfect world. You're fighting for people's attention, competing against every other setting on the site, and everything else on the internet. It is your job as the advocate of your setting to make people interested in your setting and make them want to care about it.
What about that standard Setting Stat-block we came up with a while back... lets see if i can grab a copy of the templet from the WIKI...
Title: [Name]
System: [system + modifications]
Theme/Tone: [What the world is built around, and how it should be read.] (But you were the one who wrote the Guide article about if i remember so you might have a better description)
Inspirations: [Things you have been inspired by]
Technology: [Level of technology]
Religion: [What position religion has]
Magic: [What position magic has in the campaign]
Ecology/Races: [What creatures exist in your campaign (short description)]
Cosmology: [Planes]
Geography: [Basic layout of world]
Points of Interest: [Things you want the readers to look at first]
Links - [relevant links]
[X] Words - [A few adjectives describing your campaign]
Does that cover your question or were you looking for something that conveys different information, or where you looking for something completely different in layout. I hope it works, and i hope to see more of these blocks at the top of some of our old setting threads.
I agree with EE, except the part where he says it's your job to make people interesting. That's kind of unfair, EE. I'd say it's his job to make people interested in his setting, though.
Quote from: PhoenixI agree with EE, except the part where he says it's your job to make people interesting. That's kind of unfair, EE. I'd say it's his job to make people interested in his setting, though.
I edited it after re-reading it, x.
well, you have to make the people with similar preferences care ^^
@Lath: That's useful.
But unfortunately I'm really talking about my age-old nemesis "not being done". I do not fight off the feeling of "not being done" very well, and I need the help of others. I'm asking here which things I should look for to have completed so that I can know I am done with the initial presentation of a setting to others.
@EE and Phoenix: What confuses me is how what I'm saying is supposed to convince people. What's the difference between making them care and just telling them what's in the setting?
If you have some innovations you are particularly proud of you'll show them off first. People don't have the time to read every single setting, so it's important to catch their attention. So it's not a matter of you remaking your campaign so much as it is a question of making it more accessible.
But what you need is:
A layout of the land (a map would do nicely)
A list of power groups/cities along with a description of their looks, government, and culture (and perhaps history).
A list of the most important historical events.
A list of religions along with their dogma, organization, rituals, and believers.
A description of magic(s) in your world. How they work and how they are used.
Something like that.
Of course, you can start by describing a small area and call that a complete setting and then expand to make bigger settings.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpaw@Lath: That's useful.
But unfortunately I'm really talking about my age-old nemesis "not being done". I do not fight off the feeling of "not being done" very well, and I need the help of others. I'm asking here which things I should look for to have completed so that I can know I am done with the initial presentation of a setting to others.
Ahhh... I get what your saying now! I say when you evaluate your body of work look from the "client/reader/customer" point of view. For a RPG setting i would look at it from the GM's needs and the Players needs.
GM - World Centered
Who - NPC's, Races
What - Verisimilitude (magic, technology, cultures)
Where - Geographic Representation (map, descriptions of locations)
When - What lead up to, created the current situation (What)
Why - Theme, Tone, Atmosphere at the table
Players - Character Centered (less important for a campaign setting)
Who - What makes me unique (Classes, Hero/Adventurer Mentality, Abilities unique to the world)
What - What am I? (Not just list the races, but describe the races)
Where - Culture (where did i come from, how does that define the character)
When - Current Events, Important History, ("Why must the character act NOW")
Why - Motivation (Moral, Social), Obligations
I think if you can answer all of those questions your "Done". Then again any of those questions can be answered and then they can be answered BETTER/MORE, so you can never be "Done" but you know you got your bases covered. I cant see what else a perspective buyer/reader would want answers to.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpaw@EE and Phoenix: What confuses me is how what I'm saying is supposed to convince people. What's the difference between making them care and just telling them what's in the setting?
It's the difference between a good salesmen and a bad one. A Bad salesmen will simply say 'this is a vacuum, it sucks stuff up and it has ball bearings that make it twist good.' A Good Salesmen will say 'this is a vacuum, it will make your life a thousand times easier. Its suction power is 2 times that of the leading competitor and it comes with these fancy German-made ball bearings that allow it to twist and turn with ease.'
One method just tells you the info, the other sells you the info.
Quote from: Elemental_ElfIt's the difference between a good salesmen and a bad one. A Bad salesmen will simply say 'this is a vacuum, it sucks stuff up and it has ball bearings that make it twist good.' A Good Salesmen will say 'this is a vacuum, it will make your life a thousand times easier. Its suction power is 2 times that of the leading competitor and it comes with these fancy German-made ball bearings that allow it to twist and turn with ease.'
One method just tells you the info, the other sells you the info.
That just seems so'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦dishonest. :(
Seriously man, it's only dishonest if you lie. Selling something is a natural part of the world, we've been doing it as human beings since we climbed down from the trees. It's not about profit making, it's about making sure the right people are interested in the right things so that everyone can go on living a decent life. The Wright Brothers, even after their first "flight," had to still convince people that flying was something worth pursuing. The word "sell" and "salesman" take on extremely negative connotations (possibly in part due to unscrupulous salesmen, but also partly because people are scared to take another person's word on something), but the fact of the matter is, if you can't convince someone to buy your product over someone else's, then you'll go broke. And not to make this a political thing, but I ain't bailing your ass out because you can't do your "job."
Sure, one way to sell is to lie, but the other million-plus not-dishonest ways are perfectly fine.
So yeah.... err, apply that to the conversation at hand?
It is all about presentation. If you want people to read and comment, then you have to give them a reason to do it. Everything is about advertising. And if you are not famous for being "great", then you need to work a little harder at attracting attention.
If you do not care if people read your pieces, present them however you like-- no one will be upset. But if you want people to read, then you have to play their game.
You advertise yourself all the time. When you choose clothing to wear for school, or work; when you select certain things about yourself to tell to a pretty guy or girl, etc.
Advertisement is natural.
That's what I find so dishonest: if the thing as-is does not interest someone else then what reason is there for it to exist when it will have to be distorted to sell it otherwise?
I don't mind saying what I think is good. I just don't want to say anything that I don't know is true.
I'm not going to touch the issue about dating; that's all b/w you and Light Dragon.
But in regards to setting-presentation (or presenting any other work):
QuoteSeriously man, it's only dishonest if you lie.
You could take a great movie and make a trailer from parts that taken together make no sense and look terrible. What you're presenting is always a snippet because people cannot watch the entire movie at a glance. That snippet has to give an idea of what's going on, and the snippet itself has to be interesting enough that people finish watching it (more so in writing, where I can just close a thread).
Quote from: PhoenixYou could take a great movie and make a trailer from parts that taken together make no sense and look terrible. What you're presenting is always a snippet because people cannot watch the entire movie at a glance. That snippet has to give an idea of what's going on, and the snippet itself has to be interesting enough that people finish watching it (more so in writing, where I can just close a thread).
But you can also take all the best parts out of a movie, the few, short, only good parts out of an otherwise boring movie.
If you weren't aware that the trailer didn't contain a representative sample then it's not dishonest. But if you do know then you're selling something that doesn't exist then it's dishonest.
I always know that what I create has many things other people won't be interested in, and I don't want to fool them into reading something I know they might not like. I want them to make the decision fully-informed. Otherwise I'm cheating both them and myself.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawQuote from: Elemental_ElfIt's the difference between a good salesmen and a bad one. A Bad salesmen will simply say 'this is a vacuum, it sucks stuff up and it has ball bearings that make it twist good.' A Good Salesmen will say 'this is a vacuum, it will make your life a thousand times easier. Its suction power is 2 times that of the leading competitor and it comes with these fancy German-made ball bearings that allow it to twist and turn with ease.'
One method just tells you the info, the other sells you the info.
That just seems so'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦dishonest. :(
good lord, no.
Transmitting data is one thing,
framing that same data in terms of how it will affect an end user is merely a service (and a talent).
Quote from: Lord VreegTransmitting data is one thing,
framing that same data in terms of how it will affect an end user is merely a service (and a talent).
But you don't KNOW how it will affect them.
Eh... it's sounding worse than it is. As far as setting presentation goes you just need to hook them with an intro. There are a few ways of going about this.
You could give the "condensed version" of your setting in a few key points before detailing specifics. No lying or stretching the truth here. Chances are you know what you found interesting writing this and others will probably agree with you.
You could give a little teaser about what characters could do in this setting, whetting folks' appetites to game in the setting. No fabrication necessary.
You could throw out a little blurb of short fiction that'll both illustrate some key concepts and maybe set the tone or theme down right off the bat, albeit implicitly. Okay... that'll require some fabrication as you're writing fiction, but beyond that it's a great way to get people interested.
As for content, it depends on the setting, but there are really two parts.
1)The top-down view: What's the genre? Where/when does this all take place? What exists/doesn't exist that sets this world apart? (for example: "Is there magic and how does it work?" falls under this category... "Are there monsters and what are they like?"... Mutants? Psychics? Gods? Demons? Whatever's there needs some broad description.) You don't need more than a paragraph for each broad category. You can get into specifics later.
2)The specifics: Cities? Organizations? Geography? People? Specifics on things mentioned in the top-down view? You may include less of this if you aren't writing the setting for gaming or haven't gamed in it, but this is where you expand on the generalities and get into specifics.
As far as what you do and don't need in each category... include only those things you find interesting. The setting will sell itself.
It's not that you distort your campaign or bend it to conform in any way. Presentation is matter of layout, order and priority, not content. Your content is your creation, and now you have to tell it so others get it.
Also, if you post all the boring bits first, then nobody will read it, not even those who would like the rest of the setting. If you post some interesting bits, or hint at them, (you could have a list in the beginning and then expand on it later) then you can alert people to the fact that your setting is not just a another drab run-of-the-mill project and that it has something that makes it worthy of your attention. Notice that this form of advertisement doesn't change your setting or ideas.
Someone who might like sci-fi and spaceships might not want to read it if it all starts with a historical account from the stone age up and details on the development of bookbinding in your setting. (even if that is an impressive amount of detail)