Eschaton: The Underworld[ooc]I've been delaying writing one of the most important aspects of my setting: the underworld And now I'm ready to throw out ideas and ask for input.[/ooc]
[ic=The Underworld]From the moment the light rose over the mountains I knew nothing I ever saw would be the same. When I could at last see the sky I realized that the island, for I had climbed through darkness to reach an island, was not in the sea, but in the sky. Clouds drifted by so close I could almost have reached out and touched them, did I not fear the edge. Trees bloomed in a hundred shades of green, and flowers in every color imaginable. But all of this paled before the myriad denizens. Where those below had been horrific, those above were ethereal. Some flitted across the sky on ethereal wings, some frolicked in the streams without fear of being swept over the side, and others peered at me from hiding places behind the foliage. The spirits of nature viewed me with as much curiosity as I saw them, though less fear.
-Excerpt from the purported journals of Orpheus
[/ic]
The Underworld is a level of reality below the physical plane--that is, Earth. On Earth, some call the underworld the Otherworld. In the underworld, Earth is the Otherworld. The underworld is a single world divided into seven realms. In these realms dwell the fae, giants, and ghosts.
[ooc]Everything from Eschaton is drawn from history or mythology. The underworld is my place for all the magical beings and so forth to exist. Most people never see it, though many tell stories about it.
Now I've decided this is one continuous world with different regions. I know I want seven realms, to stay in line with the basic cosmology I've been using (seven heavens above Earth, seven underworlds below). Each region will have different inhabitants and factions.[/ooc]
The Realms [note]This list is tentative. Names are working names.[/note]
The Seelie Realm - Alfheim/Paristan (Seelie fae)
The Water Realm - Patala (dragons)
The Fire Realm - Muspelheim (fire giants)
The Cold Realm - Niflheim (nothing? - but it is the realm of mist, so maybe Mummu fits)
The Dead Realm - Sheol/Hades (ghosts)
The Unseelie Realm - Naraka/Purgatory/Tartarus (Unseelie)
The Giant Realm - Jotunheim (frost giants, other giants)
[ic=Features]So thinking from world mythology, I need to think about what features these realms should have, and how they all fit together.
I've been thinking the Seelie Realm is an archipelago. And I'm thinking they are floating islands to add to the surrealness of the world. I want to really distance this world from Earth, without making it feel alien. A realm to inspire awe, but not perplex. Floating isles have been done before, but I think they fit well with a faerie world. I think either each island will be a kingdom, or there will be a few kingdoms/empires that rule several isles each.
In the wiki, I referred to this in passing as the Skysea. I envision ships that sail it, though how I haven't gotten into yet.
Somehow the heart of the world should be Mount Mashu/Meru. Which is probably surrounded by the Cedar Forest.
A ring of mountains forming the extreme boundary of the universe (Hindu myth) seems like something I may want.
I need to figure out where the other realms sit.
If the islands float in the sky, the natural answer is that the water realm is the sea beneath them.
Tartarus is first and foremost a prison (among other things, to holds enemies of the Primordials, such as the titans). So perhaps it is just an area of the Unseelie Realm (or maybe the Unseelie fled to Naraka after the schism with the Seelie). Should feature twisted towers, chains, blood--very hellish.
Other things to think about:
The Dragon Gate - dragons have to swim up through it to learn to fly (from Patala to Seelie Realm)
Siren Scoputi - island of sirens (probably in Patala)
The various netherworld rivers: Styx, Lethe, Mnemosyne, Phlegethon - plus all those Norse rivers
The Asphodel Meadows - Greek, place of ordinary dead souls
Irkalla - the realm of Ereshkigal (Nirrti), which is perhaps another name for ghost world, or perhaps a section of it
Yama Loga - palace of Yama in ghost realm
Erebus - Greek myth; place of darkness, possibly in Tartarus; also a name for the god (so maybe an alias of Kroni?)
Kyoopelinvouri - cavern of the dead
Svartaflheim - sunless realm of the gnomes (who turn to stone in sunlight)
Iron Wood - in Jotunheim
Nastrond - home of Nidhogg
City of Brass - ancient lost city where djinn is trapped (1001 Arabian Nights)
Onigashima - oni island
Ice caverns - just seems to fit
trees that sing - just seems to fit
Yggdrasil - its on Earth, but perhaps it somehow connects
[/ic]
[ooc]Important note about souls. Normally, a soul that dies returns to the Paramatma and is subsequently reincarnated. Only damned or disturbed souls linger in the underworld as ghosts. However, I think most times when the fae die they are reborn as humans, and vice versa. I'm note sure whether the fae do something malicious to gain more births, or if its just part of the Wheel of Rebirth.[/ooc]
So this is partly me getting my ideas down. I won't try to draw a map until I have a better idea how this will all work in practice.
In summation: help :yumm:
Are there things I've missed? Ideas on how it all fits together? General thoughts?
The first thing that sticks out to me is that Erebus and Svartaflheim could be one and the same? Both are sunless/dark, and I know you like to mix and match mythology.
The "sea" in the archipelago that is the Seelie Realm as the Dragon realm like you said seems like a good fit. All those underworld rivers could flow into it from the "mainland".
Personally the Fire realm just screams volcano to me, but maybe that idea is a bit cliched.
Kyoopelinvouri reminds me of the place of the dead from The Amber Spyglass (great book if you've never read it), possiblt its just up the "rivers" in the mainland and is the "entry-way" to deeper and darker places like Erebus/Svartaflheim?
Regarding airships: one idea I've used for my own campaign with airships is to either have the ships carved out of larger floating rocks, or have floating rocks embedded along the hull of the ship.
Ideas for dragon gate: could be an archipilogie(sp?) of floating isles which for one reason or another have dropped attitude to sea level. this assuming the dragon gate is on the surface of the sea.
Yggdrrasill: the roots of yggdrasill could possible go down to one of the other realms, or be a small isolated place or perhaps the part of the the yggdrasill that's shown on earth is only the top, and the trunks off yggdrasill goes through the earth and down to the underworld
a possible way of travelling between the two worlds could then be through the trunk, filled with its own ecology and society. must likely with the 3 mytholic beast being an important part of that, can't remember thier name at the top of my head though (the dragon that's gnawing at the root, the eagle that lives at the top and the squirrel which constantly run back and forth between the two)
Hey Llum, I like that idea for Erebus, thanks!
But I'm not sure what the mainland will be yet--if the Seelie live in floating isles that orbit the mountain, and the sea is beneath them. I have to figure out how the other realms physically fit together.
Never read the Amber Spyglass. I believe Kyoopelinvouri was from Finnish myth.
@Tillumni
Great idea with the airships.
I was thinking the dragon gate was a waterfall they had to "swim" up (i.e. learn to fly).
Ratatosk, Nidhogg, Vedfolnir.
Thanks a bunch guys!
So I've been doing so more thinking. I've got more of an idea of how the geography will fit together.
At the "center" of the world is the great mountain (we'll call it Mashu). Around this mountain is the great forest (Cedar Forest). Around this is the ocean (Realm 1: Dragons). Around the ocean are the loka loka mountains, which form the border of the giant realm (Realm 2: Giants). Not sure what would end that.
Orbiting the mountain are about a half dozen floating islands (Realm 3: Seelie)
Beneath the mountain, like an cone going down are massive underground complexes where the Unseelie live (Realm 4: Unseelie/Hell realm).
In the south, probably on the sea not floating, is Muspelheim, the fire continent (Realm 5: Fire giants or other fire beings).
In the north, or in the upper levels of the underground (uncertain) is Niflheim (Realm 6). Traditionally it is a realm of cold and mist. However, sometimes Hel (realm of the dead) is said to be within it, so I may take that tact. However, that would mean I need one more realm.
If I go that route, Meru/Cedar Forest could be Realm 7.
*One concern is that the Seelie need a way to be fighting with the Unseelie. But if they live on floating islands, and the Unseelie are underground beneath Mashu (and Niflheim), then it gets harder.
As to the Seelie Realm:
I'm thinking Tir Nan Og (wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%ADr_na_n%C3%93g) might be a name for either the entire underworld or the Skysea (Seelie Realm) part of it.
So the major kingdoms would probably be:
Annwn (I'm thinking Avalon could be the same)
Mag Mell - these two would be basically European-themed kingdoms
Yaochi - The kingdom of the Jade Emperor (Chinese)
Persitan?? - The Persian fairy land is developed, but without distinct personalities I wonder if it is better suited to assume it refers to the entire world, or one of the other kingdoms.
Hsuan?? - Chinese fairy continent. Do I need another place for what should be a unified "pantheon"?
Am I missing anything? Thoughts?
A random thought I had just now looking at my diagram:
Maybe Niflheim could be the top of the mountain, if I assume the mountain is truly ginormous (I can't believe my spellchecker accepts that word).
So I've been continuing to think on the layout.
I'm thinking of semi-vertical structure.
[spoiler=sketch](http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/underworld.gif)[/spoiler]
So then I could say the realms are:
1 - Mount Mashu (becomes mountain of the dead)
-Niflheim is the outer area
-Svartalheim lies in caverns inside Niflheim
-Sheol is the inner mountain at its base
2 - Naraka/Tartarus is beneath Sheol, below ground level
3 - Muspelheim (not pictured) forms the boundary around Naraka
4 - Cedar Forest surrounds Mount Mashu
5 - Patala (the ocean) surrounds Cedar Forest
6 - Jotunheim (the giant land) is beyond the Lokaloka mountains which bound Patala
7 - The Skysea (Seelie) realm are islands orbiting Mount Mashu
The downside to this layout is that Niflheim, Svartalfheim, and the shadowy realm of the dead are all considered one realm (Mount Meru). But it seems unfitting to not make Cedar Forest a realm, since it's kind of big.
Thoughts?
Bump ;)
I realized I didn't really explain "The Pit." It's Abaddon, the worst part of Tartarus/Naraka. I'm thinking something really nasty lives at the bottom. The hollow drops all the way down from Sheol, where I'm thinking the rivers (Phlegethon, Styx, etc.) flow down into it, down past the bottom of Tartarus.
Maybe the palace of Nirrti is at the bottom.
Ok, this looks good so far. For the Cedar Forest is there some kind of Emerald Dream/Feywild thing from mythology it could be?
Does Jotunheim go on forever? Also, Mulspelheim is like a ring of fire around the mountain?
Now the City of Brass could maybe be between the Mispelheim and the Pit. I know in mythology there are tons of robots and automata around it. Maybe they could be creations of the gnomes/giants, orichalcum statues imbued with spirits? Or clockwork ala ancient islam custom?
As for Nastrond (home of the Nidhogg, a dragon that chews on the roots of Yggdrasil iirc) could it be at the very peak of the mountain? maybe with some of the roots of Yggdrasil comming down from the sky? (cause its an Underworld?)
Quote from: LlumDoes Jotunheim go on forever? Also, Mulspelheim is like a ring of fire around the mountain?
As for Nastrond (home of the Nidhogg, a dragon that chews on the roots of Yggdrasil iirc) could it be at the very peak of the mountain? maybe with some of the roots of Yggdrasil comming down from the sky? (cause its an Underworld?)
[/quote]http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/hourglass.gif[/img]
Maybe to help counteract the "downside" that Niflheim/Svartalfheim and the dead realm are all the same place, you could make Svartalfheim and the realm of the dead just sections, which actually reside on the inside ceiling of the mountain (kind of a hollow earth thing). You could have them face each other, each one looking "up at the other" and have some sort of weird ways to get in. It could serve as an interesting side feature to a larger realm. They don't necessarily have to face each other, though... you could just have a big bridge between them or something. It would definitely be cool to have Svartalfheim be an isolated (even if seemingly endless) closed-off realm that is hidden in the mist of Niflheim.
Quote from: BiohazardMaybe to help counteract the "downside" that Niflheim/Svartalfheim and the dead realm are all the same place, you could make Svartalfheim and the realm of the dead just sections, which actually reside on the inside ceiling of the mountain (kind of a hollow earth thing). You could have them face each other, each one looking "up at the other" and have some sort of weird ways to get in. It could serve as an interesting side feature to a larger realm. They don't necessarily have to face each other, though... you could just have a big bridge between them or something. It would definitely be cool to have Svartalfheim be an isolated (even if seemingly endless) closed-off realm that is hidden in the mist of Niflheim.
I briefly considered a Hollow Earth model for the entire underworld. I dismissed the idea because the underworld isn't literally underground--the Earth has its normal plates and core.
I hadn't considered the model just within the mountain. So if Svartalfheim is on the ceiling, gravity is reversed there?
Svartalheim is where the gnomes (dwarfs) should live (breaking the rule that the Seelie live in the Skysea), so I kind of do want it separated from the dead. Though in Norse myth there is a connection b/w dwarfs and the dead, so maybe having them in the same realm works.
I'm working my mind around this idea.
Not much to contribute at the moment - but here's some appropriate inspirational theme music (http://songza.com/~engmtm)
While I plan to incorporate Orpheus as a thematic element, can't say I love the music SM x.
So the Skysea is a series of islands held in the sky by the roots of the world tree (which descend from the sky), around mount Mashu. I'm going with several islands rather than just a few because many mythologies describe the islands of the faeries/dead as a series of isles.
But I'm thinking there should probably only be a few Seelie kingdoms. There's almost got to be one ruled by characters from Celtic myth. Especially with the Tuatha de Dananns, and the Welsh named underworld figures, it seems like a basic structure is already detailed.
And the same is true for a Chinese-themed one, namely a rigid court ruled by the Jade Emperor.
I think I should have two Celtic-Otherworld nations (Mag Mell and Annwn), to account for the rulers presented in each. Plus I feel like having only two kingdoms almost necessarily places them in opposition. I want there to be politics between the Seelie, but only war with the Unseelie.
Thing is, most of the other fairylands in mythology are pretty vague, with few if any specific figures. This means they can be easily folded into one of the other kingdoms.
My question:
Are those three kingdoms enough? Should I have another themed one? Usually I take the tact that folding stuff into as few entities as possible is best, making it more universal (and at the same time deeper), and you can see this effect in the bestiary.
(I could probably use Dilmun, or pull something from Hindu mythology, or maybe Oceanic.)
if the current 3 kingdoms are fairly large, then there's really nothing that keeps the other fairylands from being regions within one of the 3 kingdoms, which might have a local culture slightly different from other regions. Especially since the skysea consist of alot of isle, which allows some amounth of isolated develiopement, even within the same realm, with the specific culture depending on the weather and geografy of the isle, or group of isle that it springs form.
I think you're probably right.
I feel like three is probably the ideal number. It's got that mystical significance. Beyond that, it prevents the polarization we'd see with two kingdoms, while keeping things simpler than having a full real-world of dozens or hundreds.
I'd almost love to make it a single nation, but I cannot see reconciling the flavor of the structure of Chinese Celestial Court with that presented in the Celtic and other European ones--not without losing something of one or both flavors.
So we if I'm to have three kingdoms, I need to think about their structures.
The Celestial Empire is ruled by the Jade Emperor. He has a whole rigid and complex bureaucracy of supporters beneath him.
The other two nations are kind of more up in the air.
I kind of like the idea of a queen for at least one. And I know I probably need an aristocracy to scheme, but I also know I want it to feel different than the house struggles I created for Logres (on Earth).
I lack direction for these nations.
Looking at the Irish myths, the king changes pretty often, as old kings are slain, maimed, or otherwise ousted. The Welsh fairy monarch seems to change only once.
The more I think on it, the more the High King model seems to work. That is, that each island would be its own kingdom, but one king or queen would also rule over the whole conglomerate.
That would, however, eliminate the need or easy rationalization for separate Irish/Welsh deity-based major kingdoms.
However, that brings me back down to only two major factions in the Seelie realm:
The European faerie one
The Celestial Court (Chinese/Japanese/Korean themed one)
So I think I may need a third option
So I need to look at what kinds of creatures are in the Underworld. That means going step by step through the bestiary.
Mortals
Probably only giants. Most in Jotunheim, with fire giants finding their way to Muspelheim.
Monsters
Mostly case-by-case. Not terribly important for the current discussion.
Spirits
Primordials and Cosmic beings would only be there if possessing someone, so they'd be case-by-case.
Ghosts (souls that failed to immediately return to the Paramatma) would naturally be drawn to Mount Mashu. Presumably in Niflheim or some upper region and they would pass through some kind of trial to reach either the shadows of Sheol or perhaps cross some bridge from the mountain to paradise fields in the Skysea (or maybe not, since the fae are reincarnations of humanity, it could still be considered the paradise of the dead).
So now the easy stuff is out of the way...
The Fae
The fae are divided into those untainted by the Cythrawl (the Seelie) and the tainted (the Unseelie). The Seelie will primarily live in the Skysea, and the Unseelie primarily in Tartarus.
They are extremely long lived but not immortal. Importantly, fae the die are usually reincarnated as mortals, while mortals are often reincarnated as fae. I have considered that there may be something insidious in this, that the fae leaders may somehow be working to keep up birth rates by stealing mortal souls. Maybe this has to do with the idea of changelings?
[ic=Seelie]
Animal spirits - the universal spirit of an animal exists in all members of that animal, but manifests in one at a time. I would guess most exist in the Cedar Forest. Maybe I need plains surrounding the forest.
Dragons (the Seelie kind) are water spirits. They would live in the sea (Patala) but could swim up waterfalls to the Dragon Gate(s?) to learn to fly. In the case of the Celestial Court, this would make them officials in the court.
Genius Loci - these are the beings called aes sidhe, elves, nymphs/satyrs, wights, kami, etc. (not these are general names for the entire class, not types of them)
Within this class we have elementals (sylphs, undines, salamanders, and gnomes), field spirits, forest spirits, marsh spirits, mountain spirits, sea spirits, attendant spirits, house spirits, and muses.
I think gnomes need some connection to the Seelie courts, but should live in Svartalfheim, which is probably inside Mount Mashu. They are turned to stone in sunlight, meaning they simply couldn't become day-to-day members of the court.
Salamanders maybe should be in Muspelheim?
I like the idea however, that all types of genius loci make up the main courts. I see elementals as the main movers and shakers here, the traditional faerie kings and queens. However, if Salamanders and gnomes were elsewhere, that would mean the court is largely Undines and Sylphs.
Sea spirits (merfolk) live in Patala in undersea cities. The classic picture.
House spirits (i.e. brownies) would make up large portions of the court, but probably hold lesser influence.
Attendant spirits (i.e. guardian angels) and muses would probably also be minor players, or spend most of their time on Earth.
Field, Marsh, Mountain, and Forest spirits are kind of classic nymphs (and undines are basically water nymphs). So they wouldn't have their own kingdoms, I don't think.
This brings me to a tangential question: are the fae races genetically races that breed true? Or would it, perhaps, seem appropriate if any genius loci can birth any type. Or maybe it's a choice? Or maybe it can even change? But type obviously matters, since it determines what kind of Unseelie a fae becomes.
Hybrids - fae with animal features
Arachnid - scorpion men. They were supposed to be guardians, possibly around Cedar Forest. No idea what to do with them. I almost don't like having something with no parallels, but I can't expel a major mythic creature.
(corrupted becomes an arachne)
bird (kinnara, siren) - probably as musicians in the courts
cow (shedu, Tarbh Uisge, Kudan) - guard shrines
goat (fauns) - woodland creatures
horse (centaurs) - woodland; settlements
monkey (vanara) - mythically do have their own kingdoms; I suspect they would have their own island kingdom
Metamorphs - Fae imbued with the animal spirit; shapeshifters
Cat (Cait Sidhe) - servants
Canine (Cu Sidhe) - servants
Horse (Pegasus/Unicorn) - probably outsiders
Seal (Selkie) - again, it seems to narrow, but I can't cut it; not major players
[/ic]
-So only sea spirits really dictate having their own kingdom, and I tend to think I'd have them answer to a Seelie Court anyway.
The type of Seelie determines the type of Unseelie if corrupted.
[ic=Unseelie]
Tainted dragons become orms (or otherwise typical wicked western dragons). The remain water spirits, and some live in the sea (sea serpents) while others live on land, but near water. However, some probably also live underground, or maybe even in Muspelheim. Despite being water spirits, western dragons also frequently are associated with fire.
Hybrids -
Arachnid (arachne)
Bird (Harpy, tengu)
Cow (minotaur)
Goat (Glaistig, se'irim) - in forests or deserts.
Horse (Nuckelavee)
Monkey (Kercopes) - evil cannibal monkeys. Somehow, they'd seem out of place underground, unless I add twisted forest. Which actually sounds like a good idea. I could also stick them in Cedar Forest.
Metamorphs -
Hellcat (Capula, Manticore, nekomata) - probably servants
Hellhound - servants
Water Horse (Kelpie, etc.) - corrupted horse shifter. To cause real trouble they kind of have to go somewhere like Earth or Seelie lands. You expect everything to be nasty in Unseelie lands, so much of the danger would be lost.
Hellseal - yeah, this was a stretch. The Fin folk are basically described as mean selkie, so I made them the corrupt version. I almost want to say selkies are undines and avoid all this.
Genius Loci - now the hard/interesting part
Sylph becomes Storm Fiend. Probably have to mostly live in upper air, upper Mount Mashu
Gnome becomes Ogre (troll, Daitya) OR Goblin. Both retain the vulnerability to sunlight. Goblins would be the largest group, probably, of unseelie forces gathered together. Fight constantly with Seelie. Ogres are probably among the most powerful Unseelie.
Salamander becomes Afrit. General evil fire spirit. Muspelheim/Tartarus, easy. City of Brass?
Undine becomes Water Fiend (Rusalka, morgen, kappa, jann). Again, some of their fear is lost if they only exist in Tartarus.
Field spirit becomes Monopod (one legged dwarf--yeah multiple mythologies have one-legged dwarfs). No idea what to do with this one.
Forest spirit becomes Forest Fiend (Oakmen, menninkainen). Live in forests and kill people. Sounds like Cedar Forest or underground forest.
Marsh spirit becomes a Ghost Light (Will O' the Wisp)
Mountain spirit becomes a Mountain Fiend (yuki-onna). A spirit of the mountain cold belongs in Niflheim. Easy.
Sea spirit becomes sea fiend (telchines, marid, nivatakachas) - underwater kingdoms at war with their merfolk counterparts. Easy.
Attendant spirit becomes an imp or a ghoul (rakshasa, Loathly Lady, jikininki, Bajang, aswang). Imps can fit into Tartarus as minor players. Ghouls could have their own kingdoms or be loners. Ghouls are spirits of cannibalism and disease, and thus pretty big in myths. So probably they're players in the grand scheme.
House spirits become bogies. Bogies scare people. For fun.
Muses become death omens (banshees) or succubae (or an incubus). Death omens are probably minor players. A succubus probably normally lives in Tartarus but escapes to cause nighttime mischief.[/ic]
With the breeding thing, maybe you could have them breed true, but when there's a mixing between two different kinds of fae they produce either one of the corresponding Unseelie versions, or they produce some sort of hybrid that's somewhat but not wholly tainted.
Hmm, I meant that if a sylph and an undine get together could a child be a gnome?
I had never even considered the possibility of a goblin and a muse or anything like that. I suppose now I need to, though ;)
After several days of mulling this over, I'm thinking I really want just the one faerie nation, with all the subnations. This would make the Jade Emperor the High King, with each island being its own sub-kingdom.
(I'm also thinking having a brainstorming thread helped.)
Opinions? Do I lose too much flavor in doing so?
What kind of fae would be powerful enough to effectively rule the world?
So if I assume the Jade Emperor is the High King, I need to create a bureaucracy that both feels authentic to the mythology and somewhat original.
[ic=Seelie Kingdoms]
Collectively Known as Alfheim, Svarga, Paristan, Tir Nan Og, Kaluwalhatian
Specific Kingdoms:
Hsuan
Annwn/Avalon
Mag Mell/Elysium/Valhalla?/Aaru
Faylinn
Momur
Dilmun
Avaiki
[/ic]
That's only seven kingdoms. It seems like maybe I should have more islands. Or should I keep it small and manageable? I want it to feel fully realized, but Eschaton is already an enormous undertaking.
So I think the Seelie Court will, as a whole be called the Celestial Empire.
The Emperor will sit at the top.
Each island will be ruled by a king or queen, which is really the minister of those particular lands.
Other ministers will exist, for many important offices, including natural phenomenon, like minister of storms.
Beneath them there will be minor court officials.
Beneath that are the common fae who may still have specialized roles, including patrons of various professions, specific land areas, and so forth.
Shades are basically beneath all that.
The big question becomes how one advances. I think it may have something to do with regulating the flow of souls. I wonder how much personal power the emperor should have. At the moment, I'm leaning to him being enormously powerful, personally as well as politically.
I also have to decide how long fae live. I decided they wouldn't be immortal (they're usually not quite immortal in most mythologies, but live ridiculously long lives). Since I want the idea of reincarnation of mortals as fae and fae as mortals to be important cycle, their lifespan can't be too long, but it should still be so long they seem immortal by human standards. I'm thinking maybe a thousand years at the upper end?
You could set it so that one must go through some specific number of incarnations as mortal for each incarnation as fae. For example, a single revolution of the cycle could be ten incarnations, comprising nine lives as mortal and one life as fae.
If you don't want to do that, you'll have to allow the number of fae to be many times the number of mortals, so that there is a rough balance to the number of yearly births and deaths to each type.
That's a good point Ghostman, I hadn't given that enough thought. I don't know that I'd want it to be a fixed numerical value though (I mean you know you'll be a god every 10th lifetime sounds a little off flavor).
So if I don't want fae to vastly outnumber humans, I have to say that not every human death leads to a fae birth. Fae birth rates could remain low, since I already assume souls await rebirth within the paramatma.
So I'm think the celestial emperor is Finvarra.
I think Fand will be his wife.
Niamh is queen of Tir Nan Og, which is either going to be an island or a name for the entire Seelie realm.
Arawn is king of Annwn.
Alchad is king of Tir Tairngiri
Bebo is queen of Faylinn. Iubdan is her husband.
Momur is ruled by Alberich.
Mag Mell is ruled by ?
Dilmun is ruled by ?
Avaiki is ruled by ?
Not too much to say about the specific individuals.
The single kingdom with regions thing should be good - it'll give you room to have a schism if you ever feel like you want to change and/or spice things up later on. No saying the hierarchy and motives of the fae couldn't change. Don't worry too much about having a huge number of islands - just don't go too much into detail about the ones that aren't vitally important. List the others, give a bit of info about what they're like.
The flow of souls in your case seems like a pretty good advancement tool. I'd actually make the kings/queens and the jade emperor the only people who are immortal, through position instead of nature - or maybe both, if the position actually changes you. As for regular aging, I'd say give them 5-10 times the mortal age length. Don't forget too that you could have it so that fae won't necessarily live out their full lives for a variety more reasons than mortals - they might be "sacrificed" for mortal reincarnation reasons or simply because their favor/usefulness has dwindled. You could interpret the "favor" any way you wanted to.
Quote from: FREAKIN' AWESOME HORSENot too much to say about the specific individuals.
The single kingdom with regions thing should be good - it'll give you room to have a schism if you ever feel like you want to change and/or spice things up later on. No saying the hierarchy and motives of the fae couldn't change. Don't worry too much about having a huge number of islands - just don't go too much into detail about the ones that aren't vitally important. List the others, give a bit of info about what they're like.[/quote]The flow of souls in your case seems like a pretty good advancement tool. I'd actually make the kings/queens and the jade emperor the only people who are immortal, through position instead of nature - or maybe both, if the position actually changes you. As for regular aging, I'd say give them 5-10 times the mortal age length. Don't forget too that you could have it so that fae won't necessarily live out their full lives for a variety more reasons than mortals - they might be "sacrificed" for mortal reincarnation reasons or simply because their favor/usefulness has dwindled. You could interpret the "favor" any way you wanted to.[/quote]
I'd be hesitant to make any of them immortal, though high enough levels of a certain siddhi can ceases aging. Perhaps the Jade Emperor has mastered that.
I'm thinking that maybe the emperor uses shades to fuel the reincarnation of fae. So maybe fae need his blessing to even have children? (Which of course necessitates a similar role among the goblin king of the Unseelie).
Good idea about death for other reasons. I'm thinking a normal fae has five times human lifespan (perhaps dragons should have more?), meaning they should probably expect 250 to 350 years.
Needing his blessing is interesting. Would the Emperor be the kind of person to give a blessing to those who are steadfast, intelligent, and capable even if they go against him, or would he/she be the kind of person to give a blessing based on how much the people respect him/her?
Quote from: FREAKIN' AWESOME HORSENeeding his blessing is interesting. Would the Emperor be the kind of person to give a blessing to those who are steadfast, intelligent, and capable even if they go against him, or would he/she be the kind of person to give a blessing based on how much the people respect him/her?
Good question. I'd say probably the former, as long as their opposition is not open. That is, he's supposed to represent a fairly ordered hierarchy, so he wouldn't tolerate anything too blatant, but for the same reason, he couldn't play tyrannical autocrat without engendering dissent.