The Campaign Builder's Guild

Because Arga has changed so much from it's original conception (this is a good thing) this thread is to develop the setting further along slightly different lines. It will focus less on the Dying World aspect, the setting will be in an "Ancient" era, as opposed to the default Medieval - that being said, some anachronistic elements have found there way in, but they work well, I promise! The races from Arga will be kept and expanded, but Gods will become tangible components in the world, not unlike Greek mythology. As for now, I'll write some quick summaries of key parts of the setting.

History Thus far, Arga has seen three Ages with it currently in it's forth. The First Age was that of the Gods. They ruled the lands and build great cities and temples to themselves and kept rule - some beneficent, some cruel - over the mortals of Arga. After the Gods were forces into the "Heavens" by X event, the Second Age began. Great Hero-Kings, often with divine blood, carved glorious and vast empires and became masters of magical forces. Eventually, after the death of the Hero-Kings and the fall of their empire, the Third Age arose, that of the Artificer. Arcane technologies flourished for many years, until a foul civil war brought down the shining empires of the machine-makers. Now it is the Four Age. Some say this is the last age, as if the Gods, Heroes, and Man could fail, there is nothing left. Others see it as a time to unearth the lost powers of the ancients and to usher in a new renaissance on the face of Arga. Who knows what the truth is.

Gods The Gods are real, there is no doubt about that. But that being said, they are not like mortals, and are often seen as being fickle, capricious, and unpredictable at their best. Some Gods go generations without doing anything, as time flows differently for them - a mortal lifetime may pass in the blink of a God's eye. In the First Age, there was a king amongst the Gods - Aegys. But due to X event, he was destroyed. The Gods now sit in several different camps, competing and feuding to various degrees.

Monsters In Arga, there are two general types of "monsters." Those that are more of race - like harpies or gargoyles. And those that are legendary, unique monsters, like THE MINOTAUR! or THE MANTICORE!

The World/Geography Think Greece - cliffs, seas, islands, rugged rugged rugged.

Alright, that's all I have right now, it's kinda late and the old brain is slowing down. Below is art I've made with the new Arga in mind, with the Greek Punk© aesthetic. (haha, it's a joke, get it?)

 (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1259118245_959_FT68535_arga_human.jpg)
Argan Human

 (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1259118245_959_FT68535_argan_locales_1.jpg)
Various locales
 
(http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1259191241_959_FT68535_argan_vorr_2.jpg)
The Vorr
 
(http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1259470487_959_FT68535_arga_gallery_1.jpg)
Misc. Gallery

The Watcher and the Giant look very intriguing.

Hm. Ancient Age. It's not inherently much more 'innovative' than the standard medieval-setting. I hope the change was done because of personal reasons rather than just to be 'different'. I figured that Arga worked in the traditional setting- but it might also work with these new tweaks that you suggest. I look forward to seeing how the world turns out.

Also... for the shift to ancient age from medieval, personally I prefer Medieval, but if you enjoy the ancient age-- good luck with it. Your worlds are interesting and I will keep reading about them.

>>The World/Geography Think Greece - cliffs, seas, islands, rugged rugged rugged.

This does seem to fit arga's map :)

I like the greek overtones but I still think you should keep some focus on the anachronistic. I can understand wanting to take your setting in the direction you're most comfortable with, but Arga has a *lot* of great elements and it'd be a pity not to put them to use :)

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI like the greek overtones but I still think you should keep some focus on the anachronistic. I can understand wanting to take your setting in the direction you're most comfortable with, but Arga has a *lot* of great elements and it'd be a pity not to put them to use :)

haha, don't fret CC, this is still Arga, no doubt about that. Thing is, when I originally started shaping up Arga, it was all on the fly with no structure really, after a while, it was beginning to be a little unwieldy - some elements didn't seem to fit, the world lacked a unifying theme or ambiance, lots of things did not connect. I'm just rebuilding Arga with the elements I liked and making sure they fit well, instead of being somewhat hodge podge.

And yes, anachronisms will still be very prevalent. Printing presses, crude firearms, clockwork thingies. The dying world will still be present, but less in a visual way, and more in a downward spiral of thinking - "If the Gods fell, and the Hero-Kings fell, and the great Artificers fell, what chance do we have of doing anything" world is going to die thoughts.

By the by, what elements of Arga did/do you enjoy the most?  

Nothing to see here folks, just keep moving.

The creation story is logical but a bit ordinary. Maybe you could give Gael a more important role in the conflict to spice it up?

it definitely is. at first I thought I wanted a fairly active and tangent group of Gods, but now that I wrote it down and thought about it some more, I'm not sure I do. I may keep gods more localized and varied, which I think is much cooler. I'll have to revise the Ages a bit, but I don't think that should pose much of a problem.

Hmm, I think I'd go with more localised gods as well. These great creation stories of the world never work out properly really... If you really want one you could perhaps have the various gods chance upon the already created earth, and then attempting to invest it with life?
As for favorite Arga elements...
I love your very alternative and exotic cultures. The Ib wicker-masks, the dwarven scripture walls, etc.
Much of your magic appeals more to me than what you see in classical fantasy as well, and I think much of it could work in greekpunk-Arga as well. The Athemancers I love especially; perhaps not that odd considering I had some involvement in their creation.  
There is more, but this is what i can recall off the top of my head.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowHmm, I think I'd go with more localised gods as well. These great creation stories of the world never work out properly really... If you really want one you could perhaps have the various gods chance upon the already created earth, and then attempting to invest it with life?
As for favorite Arga elements...
I love your very alternative and exotic cultures. The Ib wicker-masks, the dwarven scripture walls, etc.
Much of your magic appeals more to me than what you see in classical fantasy as well, and I think much of it could work in greekpunk-Arga as well. The Athemancers I love especially; perhaps not that odd considering I had some involvement in their creation.  
There is more, but this is what i can recall off the top of my head.

ok cool, those are all staying in. The Duran backstory may change though, no Old Dura and no tech for them. I was thinking they would be quasi-Tibetan, just meditating in their mountain citadels. Oooh, idea. Maybe they would meditate so well, eventually they could revert back to stone, so you would have these monastery halls filled with transcended Dura, like cross-legged statues that would meld in with the temple.

That would be quite cool :D
Your entire take on "dwarves" could revolve around them being sort of druid/monks. Maybe think Rousseau and the natural state even? (just brainstorming here)
I can live with the arc-tech gone, but I kinda liked the old mad war machines. You could possibly just change their backstories. You already have the automatoi after all.

As to Light Dragon's comments about the "ancient" feel of the setting... Although I have only a passing familiarity with Arga at the moment (something I really should find time to rectify), I have to say what struck me was the aesthetic you defined as greekpunk. Now, I do have something of an interest in the bronze age in general and I developed a love for greek mythology in my childhood, so those elements are great, but that's not what you've gone for... you've aimed higher, in that this isn't just an ancient greek setting, it's a greekPUNK setting, and I really hope you won't lose sight of the importance of that suffix :)

@CC, do you think the Automatoi would make an interesting enough character race?

haha, good to hear Kindling. And yes, the punk is very prevalent. The Greek part has more to do with visuals - bronze stuff, the armor, cloth designs, boats, old pillared ruins - than with a cosmology or mythology. I did try a Greek-style mythos with Arga, but it felt artificial, so it's not happening. The next round of sketches I'll try to through in more of the punk.

by the way, I thoroughly enjoyed Knife's Edge.

They are close to Eberron's warforged. As a concept they are completely valid as a character race; but you'll have to Argafy them somewhat more before they'll stand the tests of time and taste.
They'd fit in with the greek as they are now, but perhaps not with the -punk. My only idea is to make them less human-shaped and more like the demented creations of ancient gods. (I think that that concept would still fit within the set bounds of the greek and the -punk)

outwardly like the warforged, but I want their minds to tick differently, make them very alien and reserved. Are much more rare.

at the moment, I'm trying to finish up the world map, get it scanned, and get it online. I like it much much more than the old Arga world map. Some areas I'm set on thus far include a rocky desert, pirate islands, a snowy north (which Kolyaev completely convinced me to put back in) and the tip of a jungle continent.

Hehe, those locales sound close to something I'd put in my own setting ^^
I quite liked your old map; what changes will have happened in this new one? Less continents? More mountains?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowHehe, those locales sound close to something I'd put in my own setting ^^
I quite liked your old map; what changes will have happened in this new one? Less continents? More mountains?

more hand-made feel, because it will be. more like my doodles, so it doesn't seem out of place. It's bigger, and a bit easier to read. it will be good.

well, the geography of the map is inked in. Now I have to name and place lot's of things I've barely thought about.

Off the top of my head there are at least 10 bodies of water(seas, oceans, bays, straights. 6 continents, or parts of. A vast dust desert (it's really big). A belt of islands. uh there's more. -Oh, 5 mountain ranges.

any naming ideas for any of these? and what is a good number of cities/kingdoms/places? there is fine line between a boring map and a busy on.

[ic=Jaspergate]North of the Old Cities, past the Narrow Sea, and through the Iron Sea sits Jaspergate, the Knife of the North. A relatively young city, it will soon be celebrating it's 222nd anniversary, Jaspergate was founded in the year 846 of the Sixth Age (6a846) by the explorer Kalos the Knife. Originally named Port Kalos by it's intrepid, and famously greedy, founder, the young, snow-swept settlement soon found unimagined wealth in the vast mountains north of the city in the form of iron, jewels, and stone. Wealth and opportunity lead to the city's quick and robust growth. Within only a generation, the city had grown in both stature and wealth. A deep harbor of granite docks replaced the original rickety collection wooden jetties. Strong walls enclosed the city, and fabulous temples and palaces made liberal use of the resources at hand. The name of Jaspergate in fact came from Kalos' own gilded hall, complete with carved pillars and a grand gate of pure black jasper.

Kalos hisself ruled the city up until his death, at which time his feeble son Kelos the Lesser, attempted to rule. Because of his inability to lead the still growing city, the various merchants, explorers, and adventurers of the city overthrew him quickly and bloodlessly, instating a loose council of movers and shakers, which is still in place today.

Originally built in the style of the Old Cities - heavy stonework, the ample use of pillars, halls, arcades, and forums - Jaspergate has also adapted the liberal use of wall hangings, animal pelts, less open space, and thicker, bulkier stonework in order to protect itself against the bitter winters of the North. Statues are common throughout the city. Jaspergate is also partially famed for it's carved pillars that feature giants, warriors, and fabled beasts of the North.

The harbor is watched over by the Tower of Gulls, a massive bulwark of black granite, sparsely dotted with thin-slit windows. The Hall of Kalos is still is used as the meeting place of the Council. Other notable structures include the Winter Wall, the heavy stone and iron wall that surrounds the city, and the Arc Thenon, as great temple to the White Lady, the patron goddess of Jaspergate, the North, and warriors. [/ic]

this is just a quick thingy about Jaspergate, one of the cities I want to feature more than others. Because of it's loose social structure, youth, proximity to the unexplored North, and an available supply of metals (read: good weapons and armor), I think it would make a good starting point or a focused city for any campaign in Arga. I would love to work on it more, some questions/focus would not hurt.

I've thought up a little meta-game system for the use of Phaen in Arga. Phaen is one of the elements (elements as in part of a whole, no relation to earth or fire or whatnot) of magic, and is raw, primal, unrefined energy. Phaen-fire, a wild, multi-hued flame, is the most common way to use Phaen, although some prefer to dabble in it's mutable and entropic properties as well. Due it's nature, the leylines of Phaen cannot be mapped, predicted, or controlled.  

[spoiler=Leylines]Leylines represent the natural flow and strength of magic throughout Arga. Some regions in Arga are stronger in a particular magic than an other, and the strength of "spells" often depends on proximity to corresponding leylines.[/spoiler]

The leylines of Phaen do not follow predictable or set paths, but instead jump and shift around. Because of this, there is a chance that at any one second, a player could have access to any amount of Phaen. Everytime a player wishes to use Phaen, they must first roll a d10, the results are as follow. (this chart follows no particular rules set, so adjust as needed)

1 There is no Phaen anywhere nearby, and the spell completely fizzles and fails.
2-4 There is Phaen, but it is weak. The spell's power is lowered.  
5-7 There is a moderate amount of Phaen. Spell works as normal
8-9 There is a high amount of Phaen. The spell's power is increased.
10 There is a surge of Phaen. The spell's effect is totally changed somehow - target, duration, range, etc. GM's discretion.
 

Quote from: Leetzthis is just a quick thingy about Jaspergate, one of the cities I want to feature more than others. Because of it's loose social structure, youth, proximity to the unexplored North, and an available supply of metals (read: good weapons and armor), I think it would make a good starting point or a focused city for any campaign in Arga. I would love to work on it more, some questions/focus would not hurt.

* What are the primary sources for tensions and conflicts within Jaspergate (other than the ruling council being "loose")? Are there notable factions?
* What kind of external threats does the city face?
* More information about culture and customs would be welcome. Is the city ethnically/culturally tied to the surrounding countryside or is there a marked division?

[spoiler]here is a further refined Kalos (Formely known as Jaspergate), one of 3-4 cities that will be "hubs" to any potential Arga campaign or story series.


Kalos

"Kalos you say? Fine city, but it's a terrible journey. Icy waters, bitter winds, and the damnable spine-sharks always circlin' your ship. Good place to buy knives and the like, best blades asides from the Vorr, and Gael knows they ain't sellin'. Actually bought m'self a nice dagger on that last trip, damn handy blade to have around, cuts through the toughest rope no problem. Haven't been there in a few years now dat I think 'bout it. Last time we sailed there, had to leave a deckhand behind, Slow Lumbra was his name I think. Took a strong liking to the saltwine, went a bit loopy."

-Grizzled Behrix, Captain of the Witch's Wake


Overview Perched between the metal-gray waters of the Iron Sea and the frigid Endworld Mountains, the city of Kalos, also known as Jaspergate, thrives as one of the richest and busiest port-cities in all of Arga. Founded in the year 846 of the Sixth Age (6a846) by the explorer Kalos the Knife. Building upon the ruined foundations of a forgotten Fourth Age city - later discovered to be the fabled Arx Valas - Kalos the Knife soon found that the as-yet-unexplored Endworlds held the largest veins of ore anywhere in Arga, even more so than Dravos. Within months, word reached the Old Cities of the Sigil Seas of the vast wealth just waiting to be exploited by those hardy enough to do so. A stream of treasure-seekers, downtrodden workers, and merchants soon fled to the fledgling Kalos. Upon their arrival, they found the wealth they were looking for, but they also found the cruel and savage North. Many perished, as they were unprepared for the bitter winters and stormy summers of Kalos. Those that survived, however, prospered, and the city thrived. Today, North-forged blades are sought after across the lands of Arga, as is the saltwine - an intensely strong brew illegal in most civilized cities.

The Northfolk The peoples of Kalos and the handful of mining towns that surround it are a hardy and tough folk. Seen as uncouth, rowdy, and crass to those of the Old Cities, the Northfolk take pride in the same traits that their southern brethren look down upon. A life on the edge of the known world has taught them that ability counts for than birth. The bitter cold and savage storms have taught them to take enjoyment whenever they can. The constant threats of the North have taught them that honest words are more valuable than verbose flattery. As the city itself is barely 300 years old, the Northfolk look similar to their cousins in the Old Cities - dark hair, dark eyes, olive skin - albeit stockier and slightly taller. The favor simple dress often worn in many layers to adapt to the fickle weather. Furs and heavy cloth are the materials of choice, and are often kept in their natural hues. However, the Northfolk all wear a broad bandoleer of colored cloth to hand a variety of items and trinkets. Men of Kalos prefer the color red, women the color yellow, and children the color blue. Iron jewelry is also fashionable. As would be expected, Tradecant is the language of Kalos.

The Northfolk subsist mainly on fish from the Iron Sea - be it smoked, salted, dried, pickled, or even frozen - and the shaggy, lumbering muskhorns that roam the foothills of the Endworlds. The Northfolk also have a taste for the locally made saltwine. By taking various, local berries - most being poisonous or foul-tasting - curing them in salt, and then fermenting the subsequent liquid, Kalos has on its hands one of the most potent, some say foul, drinks in all of Arga. It is common knowledge that too much saltwine at one sitting can permanently alter ones state of mind.

The City Built upon the sturdy ruins of Arx Valas and within the sheltering embrace of a harbor, Kalos has often been described as an oyster of a city - drab on the outside, but gleaming on the inside. Heavy stonework, tall, thin windows, narrow streets, stocky columns, and steep streets and stairs mark the city from the outside. Within, however, most homes are redolent with ample tapestries, carpets, and pelts while a large central hearth heats the home with a warm orange glow. Another unique feature of Kalos is the presence of the "retha", also known as chimney imps, small, trainable creatures native only to the shores of the Iron Sea. The retha resemble small, furry, monkey-like creatures. Within a white coat and two small black horns, the rethat stand no more than a foot tall. Many have tried to forcibly remove the imps from the Iron Sea, but the retha seem to perish if moved without them wanting to. However, they are capable of living beyond Kalos, and Northfolk merchants and sailors often carry at least a couple retha on their ships. The imps seem to feed on dirt, dust, and soot. It didn't take long for the Northfolk to figure out that keeping one or two retha wouldn't be a bad idea.

There are few grand buildings in Kalos. The Tower of Gulls, a massive bulwark of black granite, sparsely dotted with thin-slit windows, watches over the harbor. Armed with a massive iron bombard - the Northfolk call it Deaths' Bellow - on its battlement, it has successfully resisted several pirate attacks and one invasion from the Old Cities.
The Iron Council, a loose governing body of successful merchants, famous explorers, and stout warriors, rules Kalos from the carved pillared-halls of the Jasper Forum, Kalos the Knife's original palace. The Iron Council meets on a weekly basis, and for the last 50 years or so, has avoided bloodshed within it's ranks. Council members usually serve for life, unless they are "convinced" to step down by any particular faction or individual within the city. The several dozen council members - an exact number does not exist - are recognizable by the engraved, iron collars they wear. [/spoiler]




More soon when I'm not nodding off.  

Saltwine sounds intriguing considering the tales of sailors who drink salt water during shipwrecks and such.
The Tower of Gulls is a cool name. What's with the Retha? are they just pets, or do they have any uses?

I too would like to learn more about those imps. What do they look like? How intelligent are they?

Is Calos self-sufficient or is it forced to import food?

now that I wrote that and I can see it outside my head, I'm not sure I like how Kalos/Jaspergate was forming, it was fairly generic. I think there needs to be something really unique to the city, some reason for it be there, both in in-game terms, and for sheer coolness. Also, the city has found it's way to the far northwest corner, so it's position is not all that good for being one of the "hub" cities. (By hub cities, I don't mean importance in the world, so much as cities that will be more fleshed out because of the multitude of "adventure hooks")

some ideas to make Jaspergate more interesting (I thought I would try to get a general consensus before writing something I may end up not liking)

-The city is build within and on top of the flooded ruins of an enormous <dead race> city. Part of the city's reason for existence would be its caches of artifacts and trinkets from the old city. It would basically be a city built on top of a dungeon, with everything catering towards that. And despite the flooded nature of the ruins in general, much of the city beneath the waves have managed to remain dry. (I imagine a scene of adventurers walking down a leaky, ruined corridor, while fish and sea-creatures swim on the other side of the windows. Don't break the glass!)

-the city is often plagued by the Sea-Dead, soggy corpses that emerge from the waves and the ruins below.

-The land north of the city is unexplored, due to the savage landscape and the fact there is nothing worth while.

-The city above the waves is divided by canals and bridges.

If you go the whole on-top-of-a-dungeon approach it would be cool to see archaeologists making an appearance for once. You might even go all the way and have the city governed by greedy archaeologists who want to scour the ruins of the past for their secrets. Maybe they are financed by a trading house who takes a few of the items of their hands for the trouble.

Quote from: LeetzAnd despite the flooded nature of the ruins in general, much of the city beneath the waves have managed to remain dry. (I imagine a scene of adventurers walking down a leaky, ruined corridor, while fish and sea-creatures swim on the other side of the windows. Don't break the glass!)

Makes for some potentially awesome scenery, but needs to be justified somehow. Perhaps there is some ancient mechanism that's still running that keeps parts of the ruins dry? Or maybe living beings (creatures engineered for the purpose, even) or automatons have been fighting back the flood all this time?

Quote from: Leetz-The city above the waves is divided by canals and bridges.

Kind of a northernly Venice then? Sounds nice, but what about winters? Will the canals freeze?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowIf you go the whole on-top-of-a-dungeon approach it would be cool to see archaeologists making an appearance for once. You might even go all the way and have the city governed by greedy archaeologists who want to scour the ruins of the past for their secrets. Maybe they are financed by a trading house who takes a few of the items of their hands for the trouble.

hmmmm, I'm not sure about archaeologists fitting in Arga, especially in Jaspergate. I have this image of Jaspergate being a fairly rough and tumble town, almost like an American West gold rush town. That being said, having a bumbling, bespectacled scholar from a larger city trying to convince a dirty, dungeon-weary adventuring party to take him along with them would fit in. Also, I can see agents from several different "factions" cutting deals in Jaspergate with adventurers before they descend into the Vault of Kalos (see below).

 [ic=The Vault of Kalos]
Knicknames: The Maze, Hunters' Tomb
Resources: Treasures, 3rd Age relics, fine weapons, ancient armor
Location: The North, north of Jaspergate

"Well, we lost Jerga in Halver's Hall to a pit trap on day seven and Gork to a gaggle o' dretch on day eleven. We found just one suit o' 3rd age chainmail, two jade statuettes, and a strangle little clockwork thingy that we couldn't figure out how to work, so we just sold that too. Overall, I'd say it was a successful trip.
-Voll Arkander, veteran Vault adventurer.

"We're here to find treasure! Where do we sign up?"
-Anonymous rookie treasure hunter.

Only a three hour walk from the bustling town of Jaspergate is the Vault of Kalos. At the same time the biggest source of 3rd age treasures and the largest tomb of adventurers in all of Arga. At the end of a long set of rough steps carved into the cliffside, the entrance to the Maze looms like a giant maw, ready to gulp up the unwary and inexperienced. The great triangular entrance is at least one hundred feet tall at the peak, and the same across. In fact, almost all the corridors and halls within the Vault are uniformly shaped the same - triangular halls peaking upwards. No one has ever managed to map the myriad of corridors, halls, and chambers. Dozens of different maps are available for the intrepid explorer that chart dozens of different routes of the Vault. A few sharper adventurers have tried to compile all the different maps of the Maze, but for whatever reason, they don't seem to match up to each other.

Legend has is that the Vault of Kalos was originally built by, obviously, Kalos, a powerful, vile, and totally mad sorcerer that lived in Arga's 3rd Age. According to the legend, he built the Vault to not only hide his vast treasures, but also to provide a secure sanctum for him to work on his foul arcane experiments. Some even say that Kalos still exists, deep within the middle of the Vault, kept alive by all manner of dark machines and vile magics.

The Maze is almost a world unto itself. The sheer size of the structure is breathtaking - adventuring treks lasting months are not unheard of. Many locations are famed and frequented, either due to their central locations, or high amount of treasures. Despite the fact that the Vault has a fifty-percent casualty rate - half that go in do not come out - the lure of riches and adventure continues to draw the brave and foolish from far across Arga.

Halver's Hall A wide, cylindrical corridor stretching nearly ten miles, the walls of Halver's Hall are honeycombed with hundreds of small tunnels, caches, and smaller room. The caches closest to the entrance have been cleaned out, but further on in the tunnel, untouched rooms still hold treasure for the intrepid.

Surviving Halver's Hall is not a matter of skill, so much as it is luck. On totally random intervals, the whole Hall rotates like a rock-tumbler. Old tunnels and exits are suddenly sealed off while new entrances and rooms are unveiled. Many adventurers have found themselves stuck in the Halver's Hall after it spins, being unable to find their way out, they subsequently starve, or more frequently, die of thirst.

Kelos' Trap Upon entering the Trap, a vast labyrinth meets the eyes. Many explorers turn around upon seeing the confusing mess of halls and corridors, but some venture forth, not knowing that the most dangerous part of the Trap still lies ahead. Much like the spinning of Halver's Hall, on seemingly random queues, the walls of the labyrinthine Trap change and shift. If the walls don't crush and kill you, being stranded in the newly formed labyrinth will.

Some smart explorers, from time to time, manage to climb the walls of the trap, avoiding the crushing walls, but in turn become open targets to the winged dretch, horrid creatures of stone and shadow that swoop from the dark recesses of the ceiling of Kelos' Trap (while most dretch are indeed in Kelos' Trap, they are frequently found in all other parts of the Vault). Rumor has it that dark and foul magics transform those who perish in the Vault into these vile guardians.
[/ic]

Hmm, giant dungeons are somewhat ill-suited for kobold villages and such. How do you handle monsters and creatures in the Vault?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowHmm, giant dungeons are somewhat ill-suited for kobold villages and such. How do you handle monsters and creatures in the Vault?

well there are the dretch, these gargoyle-like creatures that are the predominant beasties in the Vault. But the Vault is so massive, that there really could be anything a DM wanted to through in. Personally, I was thinking some type of automatons could be present (really old, dangerous ones that the PCs may want to totally avoid.)

What I think would be cool with the Vault is to employ other types of dungeon hazards. Creature-filled dungeons have been done many many times. The danger of the Vault is not so much being able to fight your way through X encounters of goblins, but more focused on survival - water, food, supplies. Players could walk for days and days through seemingly endless tunnels without seeing anything. With the Vault being so massive, there is a huge chance of starving to death or dying of thirst. I want the Vault to be really, really menacing. Players should rely more on smart planning and decisions than swords. Think of Moria in LoTR. This party of people who can handle themselves still sneak through it, not wanting to bother anything. Players who delve into the Vault should be going in for treasure and loot, not to go toe-to-toe with a gaggle of orcs. (not that orcs or goblins exist in Arga) The dungeon itself, with all its traps and dangers, should be challenge enough for any level of player.  

Creatures like giant vermin/insects could be a challenge in the Vault. I was thinking of having bandits within, but surviving is hard enough without trying to live there.

next possible "hub" city - Tazzeret/Targazza/Tezzera (something like that) Will be a not so subtle take on Venice/Italian city-states. A powerful trading city with merchants all of Arga. Considered the most civilized city in Arga, although not the most powerful or populous.

Island city riddles with canals and waterways. Probably will have an architectural style like medieval Italy, albeit somewhat less refined and heavier. I was thinking that they worship a single goddess that stresses wealth, power, and the sea.

Would be a great place for some political intrigue and "cloak and dagger" style stories.

A suggestion: To add some originality, you could blur the line between religion and secular mercantilism and seafaring, perhaps to the point of fusing the occupations of priest, merchant and captain into one. This would lead to a kind of mixed theocracy/plutocracy/thalassocracy, with every ship acting as a moving temple. These ships could have figureheads carved on their prows that also act as sacred images of the goddess.

Quote from: GhostmanA suggestion: To add some originality, you could blur the line between religion and secular mercantilism and seafaring, perhaps to the point of fusing the occupations of priest, merchant and captain into one. This would lead to a kind of mixed theocracy/plutocracy/thalassocracy, with every ship acting as a moving temple. These ships could have figureheads carved on their prows that also act as sacred images of the goddess.

well I'm totally sold on that awesome idea.

here is the base for the new Arga map. I obviously still need to fill in cities and other locations, as well as add color. but I thought I'd throw it online as preview view or whatever.
(//../../e107_files/public/1260669596_959_FT75313_arga_preview_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1260669596_959_FT75313_arga_preview.jpg)

I always love to see your maps...so simple and so compelling.

why thank you sir. every time I make a world map I want to do more and more by hand, however, you can only write so small without it being a jumbled mess. also, the Dark Way cultist is on it's way, I have not forgotten, just been busy and junk and stuff.

Very sweet map. Has a lot of the ruggedness I've come to associate with your greekpunk. A bit more labyrinthine than your previous map; a good thing if sea travel is as important as I think it is.
You could attempt to combine your venetian city with influences from Ancient Athens (they are complementary if we consider the civilized aspect).

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowVery sweet map. Has a lot of the ruggedness I've come to associate with your greekpunk. A bit more labyrinthine than your previous map; a good thing if sea travel is as important as I think it is.
You could attempt to combine your venetian city with influences from Ancient Athens (they are complementary if we consider the civilized aspect).

you bet, sea travel is going to be key. If this ever gets played, a think a navigator/captain "class" or skill tree would be neat.

Athens/Venice could be pretty neat...hmmm...

Quote from: Leetz

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowVery sweet map. Has a lot of the ruggedness I've come to associate with your greekpunk. A bit more labyrinthine than your previous map; a good thing if sea travel is as important as I think it is.
You could attempt to combine your venetian city with influences from Ancient Athens (they are complementary if we consider the civilized aspect).

you bet, sea travel is going to be key. If this ever gets played, a think a navigator/captain "class" or skill tree would be neat.

Athens/Venice could be pretty neat...hmmm...

I would totally take that skill tree, combine it with a swords, and make a pirate of the high seas. Seriously though, that is a really sweet map, can't wait to see the colored version.

alright, I am beside myself with giddyness at how this map turned out. the font I found was practically made for Arga. this is still in a working state, so feedback would be key - how is the size? everything readable? do I need more stuff? less stuff?
(//../../e107_files/public/1260769002_959_FT75313_arga_ii_preview_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1260769002_959_FT75313_arga_ii_preview.jpg)


also, would any happen to know the distance in miles between the equator and, say, the 45th parallel (on Earth, of course)?

Quote from: Leetzalso, would any happen to know the distance in miles between the equator and, say, the 45th parallel (on Earth, of course)?

The length of the Prime Meridian (pole to pole) is about 20,000 km. Divide that by 180° and you get the distance in km of a single degree along spherical surface. Multiply by 0.621371192 to get the same distance in miles. The shortest path along surface from the Equator to the 45th parallel is of corse 45 degrees.

You've used like every cool sea name ever to exist :D
Once considered the Maw myself in a previous incarnation of my setting so I can only commend you on that choice.
Is it the Sea of Doxa or the Sea of Poxa? A bit hard to discern between D and P there, but you're right, the font is absolutely perfect so we'll live with that minor thing.
Ironic that the cities of the Broken Waste are the only ones connected by a road.
Hmm, what is your thought behind having Vorr culture develop close to what appears to be horse plains? Any significant interaction there? I don't see Vorr as the greatest riders myself...
Sea of Raza inspired by the character in Lies of Locke Lamora? Just finished it, and it kind of jumped out at me. But might just be a coincidence :)
I'm guessing the map is from a human point of view, so do the Vorr have a name for their own land?
I would perhaps go with another design for the city markers. The red dots seem a bit idiosyncratic. Perhaps use some kind of black cross or circle/cross sigil instead in the same style as the text.
A few of the cities still lack names, but I guess you're aware of that.
That's all for now i believe!
Can't wait to see more on the different locations.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowYou've used like every cool sea name ever to exist :D
Once considered the Maw myself in a previous incarnation of my setting so I can only commend you on that choice.
Is it the Sea of Doxa or the Sea of Poxa? A bit hard to discern between D and P there, but you're right, the font is absolutely perfect so we'll live with that minor thing.
Ironic that the cities of the Broken Waste are the only ones connected by a road.
Hmm, what is your thought behind having Vorr culture develop close to what appears to be horse plains? Any significant interaction there? I don't see Vorr as the greatest riders myself...
Sea of Raza inspired by the character in Lies of Locke Lamora? Just finished it, and it kind of jumped out at me. But might just be a coincidence :)
I'm guessing the map is from a human point of view, so do the Vorr have a name for their own land?
I would perhaps go with another design for the city markers. The red dots seem a bit idiosyncratic. Perhaps use some kind of black cross or circle/cross sigil instead in the same style as the text.
A few of the cities still lack names, but I guess you're aware of that.
That's all for now i believe!
Can't wait to see more on the different locations.

it's the Sea of Poxa, and I found the same problem with the P and D, but you're right, the font's way too cool and I like the name, so it's all right.

as for the Vorr Lands, they're located north of that rang of mountains. Their city of Dravos is nestled at the rocky foothills, not unlike Minas Tirith (although visually it's much different, but you get the idea) And I'll probably get rid of that horse icon and put something else in it's place (I also found a font set with all those neat Greek things, double score)

The Vorr have their own language entirely, so yes, their is a different name, but ironically it's still Vorr Lands, but in their tongue.

not a red dot fan? I thought they were a nice contrast to the otherwise earthy, muted tones of everything else. I also planned on having green dots for The Seven Wonders of Arga and blue dots for dungeons/ruins/dead cities.

oh, and the "road" is not so much a road, as a caravan route. the next incarnation will have the sealanes (with distance markers on them) more cities, ruins, the Wonders, and some more fluff.

and @ Ghostman, thank you sir!

[EDIT] ok, I figured out the size ratio and all that for Arga. Each mila (an Argan unit of measurement) is equal to 3 real miles. The rough size of the Arga map is as such - The northern edge of the map would be equivalent to the northernmost point in Great Britain, reaching down to the southern edge of Arga, which would be CLOSE to the northern edge of the Kalahari Desert in Africa.

Red dots are perfectly okay, they are just not completely in line with the rest of the map style :)

ok, here it is. the FINALIZED (most likely not, but more or less) map of Arga. behold it's majesty.


(//../../e107_files/public/1260818019_959_FT75313_arga_final_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1260818019_959_FT75313_arga_final.jpg)

(I made an error, the city north of Voy Vasa is called Chatha, but it's in the wrong font, I'll get that fixed ASAP)

And a few locations...

The Maw In truth the Maw is not a sea, but the gullet and mouth of giant beast as old as Arga itself. Sailors rarely venture into these waters, as to do so is to invite certain death at the hands of vicious whirlpools that drag vessels into the belly of the great beast.

The Blackwater At the northern edge of Arga sits the southern edge of the Blackwater, a great expanse of dark and cold waters that no man, or woman, has dared to chart.

The Stormrun A savage and wild sea wracked by storms caused from the clash of the warm waters of the Ocean of Ghosts and the icy grey waters of the Iron Sea mix.

The city name above Voy Vasa is completely illegible for some odd reason I'm sorry to say. I Like your idea of Wonders. Interesting way to draw attention to your setting.
Who was Raza? And Hydrath? The trinagles in the sea; are they sea routes? They seem to appear in places where there are no major cities.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowThe city name above Voy Vasa is completely illegible for some odd reason I'm sorry to say. I Like your idea of Wonders. Interesting way to draw attention to your setting.
Who was Raza? And Hydrath? The trinagles in the sea; are they sea routes? They seem to appear in places where there are no major cities.

yeah, the city's called Chatha, and I noticed that too about 2 minutes after I posted the map.
Raza is a yet to be developed guy. while the Hydrath was a massive sea-serpent 20 milas long that is imprisoned in a huge, water filled labyrinth (the picture of the sea tunnel I posted earlier is an entrance to the Prison)

and the sea lines are 100% fluff. but if anyone ever uses Arga as a setting, they could make them into something crunchy I suppose.

ok, w/ the fixes and stuff.
(//../../e107_files/public/1260826753_959_FT75313_arga_finalii_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1260826753_959_FT75313_arga_finalii.jpg)

That's a GORGEOUS map!

Has Vox Vasa replaced Pem Poxa?

well thank you sir. and yes, Voy Vasa has replaces Pem Poxa in name only, it's a very different city than Pem Poxa was.

a map of the climate zones, to better visualize shtuff.
(//../../e107_files/public/1260853894_959_FT75313_arga_climate_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1260853894_959_FT75313_arga_climate.jpg)

Your post on Pem Poxa was a bit ambigious. Are the cities alike, or quite different?
Nice climate map. Vorr live in temperate climes now?
EDIT: oh, and how will the tropics feature? Are you modifying the old Piratua idea or?

I love the idea of a climate map! Brilliant, and something I never would have thought of for a setting - yet soooo useful.

Tell me, what are you meaning by the words in each "band" on the map? Tropical and Desert are pretty self-explanatory, but the other three are somewhat vague and subjective.

I'm guessing the following:

Cold = Sub-arctic, Canada/Scandinavia
Temperate = Britain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, other northern-European areas
Warm = Meditteranean type climate, Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc.

Like I said though, it's somewhat subjective, seeing as I see "temperate" as being my own climate zone, and so "cold" must be colder... to someone living in, I dunno, southern France or something (let alone somewhere even hotter), maybe what I see as "temperate" might seem "cold"

EDIT: it just occurred to me that the terms you use might actually be perfectly well-defined meteorological terms, and it's only my ignorance that's making them seem subjective. If so, please still do explain, Lol :P

@CC - alike as in culturally? no, well mostly no. Everything will still have that psued-Greek feel to it, but in the north, things will be more "Northy" - a little more savage, heavier, things that people associate with the north. The south will be somewhat Middle Eastern. The central will be straight forward Mediterranean. But I want to keep from using real world parallels to describe the Argan cultures as much as I can. Overall, there will be that Greekpunk feel, with each city having it's own special quirks and neat thingies.

Ohh, and yeah, Penzanda will take the place of Piratua (I like Penzanda better, and as I recall you weren't a fan of Piratua in the 1st place.) as the "exotic jungle city"

ps. I'm thinking that in, say, the 4th of 3rd age (out of 6 total) a single Empire covered the entire map, which would explain for the pervasive Greekpunk aesthetic. Almost like post-Alexander the Great and so on and yada yada.


@Kind - I was going to put artic for the Cold area, but Artic seemed Too cold. but basically the Cold area has longer winters than normal, temperate has 4 equal season, Warm has hot summers and rainy winters, and the other 2 should be self-explanatory.

I think you misunderstood my first question? I tried to ask whether Pem Poxa and Vox Vasa where different or alike? Is there still a crazed demigod in control of Vox Vasa etc.?

i did misunderstand. And I think I'm still going to keep it kinda the same city with the crazed demigod.

here is the FUDGE based rules for Arga thus far, I'm sorry it's kinda hard to read on the forum, but I wrote it in word and pasted here, which unfortunately does not do it justice.

[spoiler]This is using the FUDGE system, which I like because it's simple, flexible, free, and can be easily made to fit a setting, like Arga!

Attribute and Skills with corresponding modifier are as follows:
 
Legendary   +4*
Superb      +3
Great       +2
Good        +1
Fair        +0 (Starting level for Attributes)
Mediocre    -1
Poor        -2 (Starting level for Skills)
Terrible    -3

*(For epic, mythic, or otherwise awesome NPCs, i.e. dragons, deities, etc.)


Attributes

Agility
   Agility represents hand-eye coordination, reflexes, quickness, and finesse. It is the most important of all attributes.

Intellect
   Intellect represents memory, the ability to quickly learn, comprehension, and critical thinking. It is the most important of all attributes.

Strength
   Strength represents sheer muscle, power, and explosive speed. It is the most important of all attributes.

Toughness
   Toughness represents the mental and physical ability to endure pain, shrug off injury, and survive. It is the most important of all attributes.

Will
   Will represents sense of self, ego, and spiritual fortitude. It is the most important of all attributes.


Attributes determine things such as Wound Points (Toughness), ability to effectively wield various weapons (Agility or Strength) and armor (Strength), aptitude to resist magic (Will), or the capability to learn and apply various things (Intellect). Attributes often have no immediate effect on dice rolls, but allow various levels of skills, weapons, and magic to be used.
   
Weapons, Armor, and Strength : Each individual weapon and piece of armor in Arga has a Strength or Agility requisite.  If a PCs attribute level does not match the  level stated on a weapon or piece of armor, a penalty equal to the different between the two is applied in addition to any other penalties and bonuses.  Any PC can use any weapon or armor, so long as they can accept a possibly penalty.

-For example '" Jhala is an adventurer who just found herself an old Pellanese broadsword. The sword has a requisite Strength level of Good (+1), as they are slightly heavy and unwieldy. Jhala, however, only has a Strength score of Fair (+0).  If Jhala wishes to use the Pellanese broadsword in combat, she would have to take a -1 penalty to all of her offensive and defensive rolls (the different between the weapons requisite (+1) and the PCs attribute (+0) is 1, so a -1 penalty is taken).

-For another example '" Red-Maned Tyber finds an exquisite suit of ancient, Duran-forged platemail! This incredibly heavy and sturdy armor has a requisite Strength level of Superb (+3), Red-Maned Tyber, however, is not that strong, having only Fair (+0) Strength. If Tyber so wished to don this armor, he would take a crippling -3 penalty to all of his offensive and defense rolls (the different between the armors requisite (+3) and the PCs attribute (+0) is 3, so a -3 penalty is taken).

Note: A PC that has a higher attribute level than a weapon or piece of armor, does not receive a bonus to offense and defensive rolls.


Skills

Alchemy
   The alchemy skill deals with the ability to make, use, and identify all manner of compounds, elixirs, potions, poisons, and pastes. Its related attribute is Intellect.

Arcane*
   The arcane skill deals with the ability to harness, resist, and study the four magics of Arga. Skill points cannot be spend on the actual arcane skill, but must be spent on the four individual branches.
   Aethra
   Phaen
   Thurma
   ?   
   
Combat*
   The combat skill deals with the ability to use various with skill. Like the arcane skill, points cannot be spent on the actual combat skill, but must be spent on the five individual branches. Any character can use any weapons regardless of skill level, but the appropriate penalty applies.

   Short Blade
   The Short Blade skill focuses on light and small edged weapons, such as daggers, stilettos, rapiers, cinquedas, throwing knives, and other such weapons. Its related attribute is Agility.
   
Long Blade
The Long Blade skill focuses on heavier, stronger edged weapons such as broadswords, greatswords, cutlasses, scimitars, falchions, and other such weapons. Its related attribute is Strength.

   Hafted
   The Hafted skill represents a broad array of handled weapons, such as flails, maces, axes, throwing axes, and hammers. Strength is its related attribute.

   Staff
   The Staff skill focuses on various pole-arms. Spears, javelins, staves, and halberds are such weapons. Its related attribute is Strength.
   Bow
   The Bow skill focuses on ranged weapons related to the bow and crossbow. Its related attribute is Agility.
   

Unarmed
The Unarmed skill focuses on martial combat by way of hands, feet, head, and whatever other body part can do damage. Its related attribute is Agility.
   

Craft*
   Skill points cannot be spent of the Craft skill. This skill is gained in individual disciplines (much the way the Combat and Arcane skill are branched) as the PC come across various manuals, schemas, and master craftsmen who know what they're talking about. The number of skill points received from such encounters depends upon each individual PCs Intellect score.

Etiquette
   The Etiquette skill deals with the ability to handle oneself in a formal environment. The Etiquette and the Savvy skill cover the same spectrum of uses '" haggling, bluffing, lying, and speaking '" but do so in different social settings.  Its related attribute is Intellect.

Knowledge*
   Skill points cannot be spent of the Knowledge skill. This skill is gained in individual subjects (much the way the Combat and Arcane skill are branched) as the PC come across various tomes, books, and people who know what they're talking about. The number of skill points received from such encounters depends upon each individual PCs Intellect score.

Medicine
   The Medicine skill deals with the ability to heal wounds, treat injury, and understand internal medicine and anatomy. Its related attribute is Intellect.

Savvy
   The Savvy skill deals with the ability to handle oneself in a casual environment. The Savvy and Etiquette skill cover the same spectrum of uses '" haggling, bluffing, lying, and speaking '" but do so in different social settings.  Its related attribute is Will.  

Sneak
   The Sneak skill focuses on the ability to move quietly, stay in the shadows, and be unseen in a crowd. Its related attribute is Agility.    

Thievery   
   The Thievery skill deals with the fine arts of the rogue. Pick pocketing, lock picking, trap setting and disbarment, are all included. Its related attribute is Agility.

Gifts & Faults:

2 Gifts and 1 Fault at creation, any more Gifts require a balancing Fault.
[/spoiler]

Just want to say I LOVE the maps.  All of them.

why thank you sir.
(//../../e107_files/public/1261020577_959_FT75313_argaiconii.jpg)

since I'm aiming for a Greek/Bronze Age feel for Arga, what does everyone think about using period weapons for the setting? by that I mean instead of using the generic long sword, short sword, etc, I would use weapons like the xiphos, the rhomphaia, kopis, khopesh, spatha, etc. and use shields like the hoplon, scuta, and aspis.

would that be too confusing? or should I mix and match ancient and modern terms?

Hmm, having some organisation wield khopeshes or letting the warriors of "nation A" carry hoplon shields could add to the atmosphere, but having everyone wield weapons with obscure names would be more akin to recreating a greek atmosphere than simply alluding to it. Like with all -punk settings you should walk an anachronistic edge between the historical and the fantastical; ancient weapons are fine, but there is no problem in them coexisting with simple short swords.

Quote from: Leetzsince I'm aiming for a Greek/Bronze Age feel for Arga, what does everyone think about using period weapons for the setting? by that I mean instead of using the generic long sword, short sword, etc, I would use weapons like the xiphos, the rhomphaia, kopis, khopesh, spatha, etc. and use shields like the hoplon, scuta, and aspis.

would that be too confusing? or should I mix and match ancient and modern terms?

I am using historical terms for Argyrian weapons (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?75950) that I just posted in the setting thread. I used a format where each flavourful name is followed by an english term in brackets. That way there should be less confusion about what those names mean.

Revised Dura coming soon, along with art. yippee!

Really interested to see how you're going to match the Dura with the new setting aesthetic, and what their place in the world will be.

(//../../e107_files/public/1261367537_959_FT75313_argan_dura_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1261367537_959_FT75313_argan_dura.jpg)

This is the Dura. not horribly different from the original in look. wielding a Duran dagger and holding a strand of iron prayer beads.


(//../../e107_files/public/1261367537_959_FT75313_argan_tools_of_the_trade.jpg)
tool of the Gear-Breakers (the Dura who hunt the mad machines they created in Ages past)

War-Hook: Used to hang on, climb, and tear metal plating off the Machines. The hooked end is often used to latch on to the Machine, the pry-bar end is used to rip off plating to get to the more fragile inner workings.

Rust Ichor: A secret Duran compound that excels at eating away and rusting metal. Kept in opaque glass bottles, the rust ichor is often thrown as a grenade or smashed into the gaps opened in the Machines armor.

Duran Dagger: An extremely durable and strong dagger. Not exceedingly sharp, but nigh-impossible to snap. Used for all manner of things in the Deeps such as prying apart Machine limbs, using it as a climbing piton, or cutting a loaf of bread.

Gear-Caltrops: Hard, dull caltrops thrown into the moving cogs of the Machines in hope of slowing them down, if not temporarily disabling them.

Delver Helm: Favored helm of the Gear-Breakers. Strong enough to take a hit, while light enough to not be uncomfortable. Ear areas are further helped by the presence of small holes to help hearing.

I like the very specialised equipment they wield and the almost gladitorial approach to it. The War-Hook is pretty clever even if it is deceivingly simple, with its tool properties and the added visual of a dura clinging on to the back of some horrible metallic monster while prying away a bar so he can throw in some gear-caltrops. The caltrops are also particularly brilliant as they are rarely used and often ineffective adventuring equipment given new life as machine destroyers.
Hmm, but it would probably take a heavy (or narrative) system to actually run a Gear-breaker vs. Crazed Mining Drill combat. Of course, you could simplify it by just having them use various stunts like "Climb Aboard" or "Uncover Weakness".
But I'm betting a Gear-Breaker could make an interesting character.

I like the tool-based approach to breaking the ancient machines, especially the Rust Ichor. Much more inventive than smashing them with weapons. Do the Gear-Breakers employ stealth in their actions, or are those automatons too perceptive to be snuck up on?

Quote from: GhostmanDo the Gear-Breakers employ stealth in their actions, or are those automatons too perceptive to be snuck up on?

I have this mental imagine of a Gear-Breaker team dropping down from cavern ceilings ontop of a Machine that's lumbering by, so yes, stealth is usable. The Machines are not very perceptive at all. They were oringally designed for simple things, and have no ability for critical or creative thought. despite their intelligence, they are still extremely hard to kill, due solely to how strong they are.

In fact, the Dura have been pushed back to their final stronghold of Durahilm by the Machines that crawl through the tunnels and caverns of their vast, ancient empire of Deep Durast. So there's this Matrix/Moria mesh going on. Durahilm connects to the outside world, but is the last remaining gate to Deep Durast.

[ic=The Dura - Defenders of the Deeps]
Nicknames: Dwarves, Delvers
Diet: Salts and minerals
Homeland: Durahilm, formerly the Empire of Deep Durast
Gods: None (Atheists)

The Dura
The Dura, or as some incorrectly refer to as "dwarves", are perhaps the oldest race left in Arga. Although they only reach up to a humans shoulder (at about four and a half to five feet), they easily weigh three times as much (up to six-hundred pounds). Dura have rough, dark skin and thick, wiry hair. Male Dura frequently sport full beards, which they tie into tight dreadlocks interspersed with beads and gemstones. They are of stocky and strong build. Perhaps their most unnerving features are their solid, milky-blue eyes and the fact that they do not sleep. Dura new to mankind kingdoms often take several weeks to adjust to the idea of day and night.

Culturally, the Dura are an isolated, reserved, and melancholy people. Duran society is focused entirely on their Ages-long war with the Machines, beings of gears and steam that they in fact created in Ages past. The Dura once worshiped a number of earth-deities and stone-spirits, but the fall of their beloved Deep Durast and the foul murder and painful decline of their people have caused them not only to shun the gods, but completely refute their existence. After there people were murdered by their creations

Duran society is a loose collection of family-clans led by the Pillared Council, an ancient assembly of the oldest and most venerable Dura. Despite strong connections and deep pride towards their family-clans, nearly all Dura place their race and people before the glory of any individual or clan. Those Dura who place personal gain before the race or show signs of cowardice, malice, or weakness are often outcast. In their war against the Machines, the Dura are always one fatal defeat away from total annihilation, and cannot afford a single weak chain in their society. These outcasts are branded as Moru, a Duran word that combines the worst aspects of traitor, coward, and betrayer into one. Most Moru try to find a place amongst the kingdoms of mankind that cover Arga, often finding their natural strength, toughness, and vigilance to be of great advantage. A rare few, however, attempt to atone for their trespasses, and travel across Arga seeking for some way to help their lost people.

Dura procreate at an incredibly slow pace. The gestation period for Duran females - which in of themselves are rare - is long eighty-three years. A Dura will take another hundred-odd years before they reach maturity. It is not uncommon for a Dura to live past one thousand years, although that is becoming increasingly rare, as their war against the Machines often kills them before age will.
Duran History
The Dura originated far to the north in places long lost and forgotten. The first Duran records are stone tablets dated from the early 3rd Age (we are in the 6th Age). By the end of the 3rd Age, the Dura had founded the city of Deep Durast in the northernmost regions of known Arga. However, the Dura were not the only race laying claim to these lands. Throughout the 4th Age, the Dura fought a never-ending war against the Gobkin, a misbegotten and vile race that infested the dark that surrounded Deep Durast. By the end of the 4th Age, the Dura were worn thin, as they simply could not match the seemingly-endless hordes of the foul Gobkin that sought their demise. It was at this time that the great Duran artificers of old mastered Thaerma, the Making-Magic, and created legions of iron machine-warriors. Tireless, fearless, and ruthless, the Machines allowed the Dura to defeat every last Gobkin stronghold in under two decades.

At the dawn of the 5th Age, the city of Deep Durast had grown into the Empire of Deep Durast. With their metal servants and guardians, the Dura of Deep Durast were left free to pursue the mysteries of Thaerma, the intricacies of artifice, and the art of construction and architecture. For nearly an entire Age, the Dura lived through a golden age of peace and knowledge. But that was not to last for ever.

At the eve of the 5th Age, evil befell the Dura. The Machines that for so long had defended the Dura, served the Dura, helped the Dura, betrayed their creators. They murdered the Dura in their sleep, in their homes, in their carved cities, in their great temples of cavern stone. In one dark night, the race of the Dura was nearly ended. The Maddening, as it is called today, still defies explanation. Some speculate it was a curse placed upon the Dura by the dead Gobkin's gods, or that their hubris defiled their once noble creations. But the exact cause matters not. Maybe one in a hundred Dura escaped the Maddening. They fled into the darkness of the deeps, dispersed for decades. Yet, as proof the races resolves and fortitude, they formed a new city at an ancient gate of Deep Durast. Durahilm - which means The Race's Stand in Duran - is the last and only city of the Dura. Built around an ancient access point to the World Above, Durahilm exists for one single purpose - the destruction of the Machines and the reclamation of Deep Durast.

Durahilm is a militant city. Seven great gates seal off the the tunnels of Deep Durast. Countless traps and fortifications defend these gates from the occasional Machine assault. Pit falls, rust ichor pools, ballistas, and a legion of hardened Dura guard the city. The gate to the World Above is not nearly as heavily guarded, and sits above a small port that is the Dura's only access point to the outside world.

Now, the Dura struggle to survive and thrive as a people. Their numbers may be thin, but their resolve has never been stronger.

Duran Character Archetypes

Duran Gear-Breaker - To you and your family-clan's great honor, you have been anointed as a Gear-Breaker, a Khaza Drum as it is said in the old tongue. After decades of physical and mental training you have been found worthy and prepare to be sent out into Deep Durast to do battle with the metal Machine demons that hunt your people.

Starting Stuff - Most importantly, your family's heirloom war-hook Arazh. In addition to that, a warm cloak and traveling clothes, tunnel maps, a Duran dagger, and other miscellaneous items - rope, rations, a lamp, a flask of oil, sleeping gear, two vials of rust ichor, a cheap knife, gear-caltrops, and a bag of salt.

Moru Vagabond - You were outcast as a Moru for your refusal to be a lifelong pit-digger at the Third Gate. You stowed away on the first ship you found. For years you worked on various boats and in many ports learning about things you never dreamed of far in the north - like the sweet, sweet taste of grog. However, fate is never kind, and recent events, specifically being an exorberant outstanding bar tab, have forced you to hit the seas as soon as Duranly possible. With little more than what you can carry, including your wits, you once again stow away in the dead of night to an unknown port.

Starting Stuff - A half-drank jug of grog and the hangover from the night before, well-worn traveling clothes and water-proof cloak of fish scales, a crude dagger and sap, a handful of coins, and a Duran dagger you managed to take before you were cast out.
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Ehm, why does the Gear-Breaker Archetype not have a dwarven war-hook nor a duran dagger as shown earlier? And what do they use the salt for specifically?
Also, exactly why do they have prayer beads if they aren't religious? I could perhaps see a Moru passing the time with them while the humans slept, but can't see the use for a Khaza Drum.

Salt was extremely valuable in ancient times and has been used as currency. Perhaps it's the money of the Dura?

Are they supposed to be completely unreligious or merely atheist? They could have some kind of godless religion now, with the prayer beads a ritual stuff carried over from the old days...

What do the machines look like? Are they big? How well do they fit in the underground world?. If they were murdering Dura in their sleep then I guess most of them should be small enough to operate in a Duran city.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowEhm, why does the Gear-Breaker Archetype not have a dwarven war-hook nor a duran dagger as shown earlier? And what do they use the salt for specifically?
Also, exactly why do they have prayer beads if they aren't religious? I could perhaps see a Moru passing the time with them while the humans slept, but can't see the use for a Khaza Drum.

haha, I meant to have a war-hook in their archetype, but I was sleepy when i finished writing this last night. I also wanted to put salt under "Diet" but forgot that. (I copy and pasted the older Dura entry, then went through and changed, deleted and added, so that's why there are some discrepancies, like the prayer beads, which are gone.)

but may loops of iron beads could be another weapon against the Machines, used like gear-caltrops.

Quote from: GhostmanSalt was extremely valuable in ancient times and has been used as currency. Perhaps it's the money of the Dura?

Are they supposed to be completely unreligious or merely atheist? They could have some kind of godless religion now, with the prayer beads a ritual stuff carried over from the old days...

What do the machines look like? Are they big? How well do they fit in the underground world?. If they were murdering Dura in their sleep then I guess most of them should be small enough to operate in a Duran city.

like I mentioned, I intended for the Duran diet to be of salts and minerals, just forgot to.

and they completely refute the existence of all gods, especial their own. After the Maddening, they were left a little jaded. Now they believe in their racial zeitgeist and themselves.

The Machines I've been trying to illustrate the Machines, but I'm having serious block. what I know so far is that the Machines were built to resemble the Dura, kinda. They are taller, maybe 8-10 feet, and lankier, with longer limbs. They have featureless faces
with hollow, lifeless eyes. they even have their own "beards". In the past, they were plated with silver, gold, or copper, but now they are tarnished and dirty.

and even though they seem big for a cavern world, Deep Durast was BIG, like Moria big. Tall vast antechambers, grand halls, and huge caverns. The Machines get around fine, because despite their height, they are fairly "thin" and can weasel their way through narrow corridors and caves.

[blockquote=lEETZ]The Machines
 I've been trying to illustrate the Machines, but I'm having serious block. what I know so far is that the Machines were built to resemble the Dura, kinda. They are taller, maybe 8-10 feet, and lankier, with longer limbs. They have featureless faces
with hollow, lifeless eyes. they even have their own "beards". In the past, they were plated with silver, gold, or copper, but now they are tarnished and dirty.

and even though they seem big for a cavern world, Deep Durast was BIG, like Moria big. Tall vast antechambers, grand halls, and huge caverns. The Machines get around fine, because despite their height, they are fairly "thin" and can weasel their way through narrow corridors and caves. [/blockquote]

tHIS SHOULD BE GOOD.  I lok forward to seeing these...are their other machines, for maintainence, for building, for leadership, etc?

Metal-coated humanoid form should do well, so long as it doesn't end up looking too much Terminator-like. You mentioned that they assault Durahilm occasionally -  how much do they coordinate with each other?

@LV - there is basically only one kind of Machine, the former soldiers of the Dura. they have no true leadership and can repair themselves to a certain degree. They are mindless Machines really, they just wander Deep Durast in their madness, attack anything (aside from other Machines) that cross their paths.

@Ghost - they don't really coordinate that much at all. Assaults are basically when a group of Machines happens to come across Durahilm and just go berserk and attack. But even a handful of the Machines is a threat to the city, as they are incredibly strong a hard to kill. The fact that Durahilm still stands is only the result of the Machines being mindless. if they could communicate with each other and plan an attack with their full numbers, Durahilm would fall in no time.

Oh this leads to another interesting question: how do they tell other machines apart from the Dura, and would they recognize difference between Dura and other living beings?

They must have been built with some kind of friend vs foe detection system to be able to serve their original purpose, that's just logical. But if they are completely mindless now, won't they just attack each other at random and reduce their own numbers? How did they come to possess intelligence to begin with? With artificial brains? Or captive spirits bound to their shells? By unknown magics long forgotten?

Quote from: GhostmanOh this leads to another interesting question: how do they tell other machines apart from the Dura, and would they recognize difference between Dura and other living beings?

They must have been built with some kind of friend vs foe detection system to be able to serve their original purpose, that's just logical. But if they are completely mindless now, won't they just attack each other at random and reduce their own numbers? How did they come to possess intelligence to begin with? With artificial brains? Or captive spirits bound to their shells? By unknown magics long forgotten?

haha, well, I haven't thought that far, and frankly it's not really of key importance to the setting, so I'm just going with the answer: "Just Because." Personally, I like to leave things unexplained, as I feel it adds mystery to the setting that a scholarly explanation doesn't.

what is known though, is that the Machines are not unlike golems. They were created with the magic of Thaerma (one of the 4 magics of Arga).

This sounds so awesome. You did a really good job with making a dwarf like race unique. I wonder though, how do the Dura even move without any sleep? Its just not realistic.

[ic=The Seven Wonders of Arga]
The Vault - At the northernmost end of the world sits the Vault. Build by the 3rd Age warlock Kelos, the Vault is both tomb and prison, archive and dungeon. It is the proving ground and tomb for many would-be adventurers and explorers. Those that emerge from the labyrinthine halls, vast chambers, and foul traps of the tomb come laden with treasures and trinkets. Those that do not emerge are never seen again.

The Giant of Agralax - A towering colossus of tarnished bronze and copper, the Giant of Agralax looms over the Savage Sea from it's high island post. The Giant is roughly humanoid, four arms sprout from it's torso. No one is sure who, or what, built the Giant, or even when it was erected. Many speculate is from the ancient 2nd Age, and was forged by the hands of the Half-Gods themselves. Other claim it was built by a long dead race, lost to the ravages of time. There are rumors whispered that one can actually enter inside the Giant, but no one sees to able to find a way in.


The Watcher - Where the waters from the Red-Stained and the Narrow Seas meet sits the Watcher. A great stone statue of a winged beast, the Watcher is said to be the petrified remains of a great sea-beast that would judge the worth of mortals upon the waves. Even today, sailors take the longer route around the Watcher, as they believe that to look upon it is to bring terrible and bad luck upon oneself and ship. Recently, a small village has grown around the foot of the statue, with the inhabitants worshiping it as their deity.

Ugo's Beacon - The famed warrior-king Ugo the Ironheart built this great lighthouse during his 5th Age reign of the then-young city of Tezzeret. Visible from twenty milas in all directions, the ever-burning lamp atop the Beacon has kept the Sigil Straights safe for the better of two full Ages.

Hydrath's Prison - At the height of the 2nd Age, when the half-gods ruled the lands of Arga, the foul and terrible sea-wyrm Hydrath ruled the waters of Arga with bloodlust and cruelty. With the aid of magics long-forgotten, the half-gods and mortals built a vast, ever-changing prison of tunnels and corridors in which they captured the sea-wyrm, where he has been imprisoned ever since. The water-filled tunnels are large enough to allow six ships to sail abreast, and it is not unheard of for adventurers or cultists of Hydrath to enter the maze in search for treasure, power, or worse.


Raza's Tomb - Perhaps the most ancient of all the Wonder, the tomb of the half-god Raza sits precariously on cliffs that have not weathered the passing of time as well as his tomb. The tomb is sealed by a giant door of strange metal that seems to open in random increments. At one point for a decade it opened every summer solstice, and for the entire 5th Age it never opened at all. Legends say that Raza's Tomb holds richest and artifacts greater than that of the Vault, which is enough to bring explorers from across Arga, all seeking a way insinde.

The Spires - Rising like an ebon crown from the pale wastes of the Dustlands, the Spires are thirteen obsidian pillars that rise more than six-hundred feet into the dry sky. The Spires seem to be immune to the ravages of the desert, and the absolutely hum with eldritch and bizarre magical energies. Many mages, sages, and sorcerers attempt to cross the deadly Dustlands to study the Spires, but few ever make it there, let alone survive the wastes.
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Quote from: SurvivormanThis sounds so awesome. You did a really good job with making a dwarf like race unique. I wonder though, how do the Dura even move without any sleep? Its just not realistic.

haha, well elves don't sleep in DnD. but they also survive be eating salt and minerals only (the Dura, not DnD Elves) so... No one knows why they don't need sleep, but they don't. it could be physiological or it could be magical. the Dura had the same questions as to why humans waste a third of their day doing nothing when they first encountered mankind ;)

and thanks for the compliments, I really liked how the Dura turned out.

I'm not sure I like the name Hydrath; too close to Hydra. Then again it was probably what you were going for, but I don't think it suits the tone. But that's just my opinion.
I like the random door on Raza's tomb.
the very last sentence of the Spires entry doesn't make a lot of sense: "but few ever make it there, let alone survive the wastes." You'd think dying before you get there and dying in the wastes would be two sides of the same coin.
I'm not sure I like the Giant of Agralax; it seems incongrous with the rest of the setting visual. You yourself went away from the duran crystaltech, and here we have something metal with glowing orbs yet again. Also the floating effect of the orb seems a bit out of reach when conpared to other magical phenomena in your setting.
But having [insert number] Wonders is definitely a good approach to emphasizing some of the elements of your setting.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI'm not sure I like the name Hydrath; too close to Hydra. Then again it was probably what you were going for, but I don't think it suits the tone. But that's just my opinion.
I like the random door on Raza's tomb.
the very last sentence of the Spires entry doesn't make a lot of sense: "but few ever make it there, let alone survive the wastes." You'd think dying before you get there and dying in the wastes would be two sides of the same coin.
I'm not sure I like the Giant of Agralax; it seems incongruous with the rest of the setting visual. You yourself went away from the duran crystaltech, and here we have something metal with glowing orbs yet again. Also the floating effect of the orb seems a bit out of reach when conpared to other magical phenomena in your setting.
But having [insert number] Wonders is definitely a good approach to emphasizing some of the elements of your setting.

Hydra-Hydrath was the target, as was an allusion to water. I thought the Greekpunk would make it somewhat logical to actually use Greek/Latin roots to a slightly higher extent.

yeah, the Giant could change, i just had that doodle I did a month or two again. it does kind of stand out (Something akin to the Colossus of Rhodes as what I was aiming for.) I'll look over that.

also, how would you describe "magical phenomena" in Arga (just to make sure I'm on the same page with others)

Your magic is not subtle, it can be flashy, but neither is it very large in extent nor especially easy to control. You can wield pure destruction but can't always choose what to destroy, and you can wield pure creation but have no control over the life you create (think Duran machines).
Like the Greek Gods magic is fickle.
This in turn is not in tune with the Giant: the magic is keyed to no specific force (it is merely "magical", as in unexplainable) and it is stable enough to last millenia.
i know that it was a past civilization which were probably better at controlling magic, and an artifact here or there wouldn't be out of place, but the Giant is a big fixture of the setting, one of the 7 wonders you've chosen to put emphasis on, and as such it should be in tune with the tone.
Notice that the tomb of Raza automatically qualifies for the "fickle" requirement :D
I don't know about what I just said; it was just an attempt at a spontaneous analysis.
oh, and you should still fix the Spires entry.
Also, the Watcher is pretty collossus-like if you are modelling them directly on the 7 Wonders; in which case I'd like to know what wonders correspond to real-life wonders? Are the Spires = pyramids?

Straight out calling it Hydra would to me seem less troubling than a construct like "Hydrath". The allusion is going to be obvious anyway, so you might as well use the original name.

As for the giant, the thing that to me makes it seem a bit over the top is the glowing and the moving orbs. If it were just one orb, floating still and not glowing, it would give a much subtler, perhaps more mysterious impression - still obviously supernatural, but with less bells and whistles if you get what I mean.

ok fixed the Giant (did away with the floating orbs. now it's just a bronze statue.)

right now I'm trying to figure out the four magics of Arga, thus far I have:

Aethra: magic that deals with the Void, nothingness, and nonexistence.

Thaerma: The Making-Magic. magic that in one way or another, alters or changes things.

Phaen: Pure energy. Easy to use, but impossible to control.

For the last one I still need a name: This magic deals with dreams, nightmares, and soothsaying.

so those are the four "elements" of magic (elements as in parts of a whole, not as in earth, fire, etc.)

[ic=Magics of Arga - Thuera]Just as the material world of Arga exists as the sea and the mountain, the storm and the flame, so to does the immaterial world of Arga - the world of the arcane and the unreal. Old and crumbling texts speak of the past Ages of Arga, how they were forged with the workings of magics long-lost and forgotten. Today, only four of these "elements" remain known to mortal minds. One such is called Thuera, the Magic of the Makers.

Thuera (thoo-ra) is a magic of creation. As mentioned, it was first used by the creator-gods in the forging of the world. Throughout the Ages, however, mortalkind's mastery of it has seemed to slowly wane. Great works of Thuera once common are now impossible to replicate. The creation of anything permanent is unknown to all but the most knowledgeable and powerful of Thuera-mages. Still, Thuera is a powerful thing. It can be used to temporarily breath life into inanimate objects, create something out of nothing, or something out of something else, if only for a short time. Objects can be manipulated - blades made sharper, torches made to burn longer, shoes to be softer.

Thuera is the most venerable and ancient of all magic, it is the scaffold upon which the creator-gods forged Arga. Thuera is strong and constant. The ley-lines of Thuera have crossed the same points and followed the same points along Arga's face since time immemorial. Many a fallen empire was built upon points of multiple ley-lines, the realm of Deep Durast the most recent as were many wonders lost to this Age constructed through the power inherent in Thuera.

The energies of Thuera run through specific and unchanging ley-lines. Though well-mapped, they are often in inconvenient or dangerous places. Also, the need to use Thuera may not always coincide with proximity to a ley-line. Because of these two reasons, items have been made and materials have been found that allow for the "storage" of Thuera away from the ley-lines.



The most common, and iconic, of these strange devices is the Censer. While they are made of any number of materials - from bronze to bone - and can be made in any shape - from globes to ornate works of art - all Censers have two basic things in common. Firstly, they all must be created on a ley-line of Thuera. Secondly, at their core they all must contain a pure iron cube, about the size of a man's hand, which is forged on the dawn of an equinox - Vernal or Autumnal - and quenched in a slurry of sea water, rain water, and dirt.

Aside from the Censer, rumors persist of Thuera-users that contain the magic in staves formed of powdered bone and Maeren tears, the gilded skulls of sea-monsters, and even their own hands, preserved in spiced vinegar all held in a blue-glass jar. Yet despite the exact construction of whatever tool one uses to control and store Thuera, there seems to be no way to know how much actual energy is stored in a particular item. While it seems that more experienced Thuera-users can both store and use greater amounts of Thuera, many incidents have occurred to counter that fact.

Thuera is generally accepted, as destruction and chaos are not in it's nature. The city of Tezzeret, Toma, and Ulara are well-known for their mastery and taste for Thuera. Also, several Wonders are built upon ley-lines of Thuera, such as Hydrath's Prison and Ugo's Beacon. Perhaps the only city where Thuera-users are fully despised is the sorcerer's city of Illix, due to their belief in the superiority of themselves and their own dark element of magic...
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Quote from: Leetzforged on the dawn of an equinox - Winter, Summer, Fall, or Spring

[nitpick]
There are only two equinoxes: vernal and autumnal. The midwinter and midsummer correspond to solstices. Of course, you could say that as a fictional world Arga may have four equinoxes in a year - though that would imply pretty bizzarre astrophysics.
[/nitpick]

oh no! hahaha, well I did not know that, and it is now fixed (Vernal and Autumnal only)

how did the rest of the article read?

Firstly, one doesn't learn what this magic actually does until the 3rd paragraph. That information might be more logically placed in the beginning of the text.

Secondly, the first line (about immaterial world) doesn't seem to be tied to the rest of the text in any way. Perhaps it was meant to bring attention to the geographical nature of magic (the leylines) but the way it's written is just confusing.

Quote from: GhostmanFirstly, one doesn't learn what this magic actually does until the 3rd paragraph. That information might be more logically placed in the beginning of the text.

Secondly, the first line (about immaterial world) doesn't seem to be tied to the rest of the text in any way. Perhaps it was meant to bring attention to the geographical nature of magic (the leylines) but the way it's written is just confusing.

ok, that paragraph has been moved.

the intro paragraph was my attempt to explain that magic, like the world, is split into many separate parts or elements. just as Arga is made of things like stone, trees, dirt, seas, storms, and stuff, so too is the magic world split into these different types/elements of magic, Thuera being one of them. (I'm using the word element as meaning "basic parts of a whole." Elements in the traditional DnD sense will not come into play at all in Arga. Earth/Water/Air/Fire, if you ask me, is one of the most overused, unoriginal, and boring conventions in RPG-style fantasy)

When Thuera is used to animate, does the body it animates need to be capable of movement (having joints and such). Can you use it to make corpse-constructs?
What do the circles on the map symbolize? Powerful "pools" of Thuera? All but two seem to be located at intersections (and if yes, one might wonder why the last two aren't located at intersections).  
What does the Censer do?
Is there an in-game reason for the straightness of Ley-lines?

well, now that I wrote that, magic may change. I was trying to figure out how to explain, write-up, and make the other 3 types fit into Arga, but it seemed too forced. So, I think I'm going to take magic the same way I treat religion and gods - on a localized, regional basis with little uniting factors between places.

What I mean by that, is that magic, like religions/cults/gods, are unique to individual cities and regions. Just like people worship different gods in different cities, people see magic differently across Arga. Magic could be one unifying force that people have many names for, or there could be many different types of regional magic that are unique to different areas. I don't think the truth of magic is meant for mortal minds. Maybe those who come too close to the truth go insane? or they could suffer from something like the Raiders of the Lost Ark face-melt.


So, while magic is everywhere, it is not the same or even called the same thing. The Dura call it Thuera, the Aethemar call upon what they call Aethra, the soothsayers and seers of Salsurel see the future in the Deep-Dreaming. And so on and so on. so no one really calls it "Magic", they call it whatever is that would make sense for them (based on region/type of magic/race, stuff like that.)

so instead of forcing Arga to fit into these 4 types of magic, I'm going to make the magic fit in with Arga as I go along, not unlike religions. so here is a short list of a few of the magics of different regions and groups.

Salsurel - a city of seers, oracles, and soothsayers. They tap into what they call the Deep-Dreaming to catch glimpses of possible futures.

Illix - the Sorcerer's City. the rulers of the city delve into a dark and mysterious magic that they call Phaen.

The Aethemar - masters of Aethra, the Void-Winds. (Athemancers.)

Might fit better with the whole tone :)

moved.

Very cool city!  A few questions on my first read through...

-how do the soothsayer priestesses of Vin-Shala enforce their will?  A mercenary militia, a holy army??
-do they care about the Myriad Mothers or have an official position on who the Mothers are?  You seem to insinuate that they would destroy teh Mothers if they could...
-are other deities permitted in the city?
-how does the Dreaming See replenish its numbers?  Is there a training facility of some kind, or do the priestesses have daughters with hireditary sight, or is there a selection process, perhaps like that of the real-world Dalai Lama??
-what are the racial demographics of Salsurel?  Almost entirely human save for foreign visitors?
-unless you're using a variant spelling I'm not aware of, "eldritch" is spelt with a t, though that's a pertty minor nitpick.

Apparently, both are acceptable. I've always used a t, however.

Quote from: SteerpikeVery cool city!  A few questions on my first read through...

-how do the soothsayer priestesses of Vin-Shala enforce their will?  A mercenary militia, a holy army??
-do they care about the Myriad Mothers or have an official position on who the Mothers are?  You seem to insinuate that they would destroy teh Mothers if they could...
-are other deities permitted in the city?
-how does the Dreaming See replenish its numbers?  Is there a training facility of some kind, or do the priestesses have daughters with hireditary sight, or is there a selection process, perhaps like that of the real-world Dalai Lama??
-what are the racial demographics of Salsurel?  Almost entirely human save for foreign visitors?
-unless you're using a variant spelling I'm not aware of, "eldritch" is spelt with a t, though that's a pertty minor nitpick.

at first I thought of having just a standard force of guards, but then I thought that a city run be a group of women who can see the future would not need much to keep order, as they can see problems and invasions well into the future and either prepare well or nip the problem in the bud before it even starts. some people are not let in the city because their future may hold poor tidings for the city.

yes, the Dreaming See is at violent odds with the Myriad Mothers, who they (the priestesses) see as heretics and witches. unfortunately for the See, the Myriad Mothers are unsurpassed in their abilities, and avoid the See just as the city avoids problems - preventing them from even coming to be. but, there are very few Mothers, and little is known about them - their numbers, how or if they are organized, even who they are is a mystery (in truth, the title Myriad Mothers is applied by the citizens of Salsurel, not the "Mothers" themselves.)


the See recruits (conscripts) female children that appear in their visions. The See believes that these girls are blessed by Vin-Shala, which could be true, considering the number of soothsayers within the city (Vin-Shala is really only worshiped in Salsurel). as for other deities, religion in Arga is like the Greek pantheon in the effect that different domains, cities, actions, etc. have a particular god attached to them, and people will worship whatever god seems fit at the moment. so there may be small shrines to other gods in the city, but for the most part, Vin-Shala runs the show (non-humans are an exception to this generalization, but I digress)

i thought it had a t, but my computer doesn't even recognize the correct spelling.

ps. I'll have some Salsurel related art uploaded later. and @ MG, what did you think about the content of the post, aside from grammar? ;)

here is a statue of Vin-Shala, the goddess of Salsurel.
(//../../e107_files/public/1262572563_959_FT75313_arga_vinshala_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1262572563_959_FT75313_arga_vinshala.jpg)

[ic=Ib]
"They came out of the sea like great beasts of the inky deeps, half-naked men tattooed like demons, all with foul wicker masks, they fell upon our ship and cut down all but me. All were wild madmen but one, he was mask-less, with scars all over his face. He moved with such confidence and grace, and the wild ones stayed out of this path - in fact, one did get in his way, and he beheaded the masked man so fast, you'd think it had happened many times before. I think it was he, the scarred man, who left me adrift. He left me adrift, no doubt, to spread the story I'm telling now."

-Paelus of Atox

Nicknames: The City of Tongues, the Teeth, the Wicker City
Resources: Poisons, weapons, ships, slaves, mercenaries
Leader: The Scarred
Population: 25,000

A strange city of sea and stone, chaos and honor, pain and ecstasy, Ib is lawless den of blood-mad corsairs, peerless beauties, unparalleled wealth, and dreary filth. They plague the Isles of Lust and the Sweltering Sea, attacking all and any that sail too close to their savage city. Built upon a dozen isles within the Isles of Lust, the Wicker City rises up towards the salty clouds in grand towers of wood, rope, and paper. Thin and deadly bridges sway between each Tooth - as the towered isles are called - and the treacherous waters keep all but the most skilled and knowledgeable sailors away.

Iban society is divided into two parts. The first, and most numerous, is the Throng. These are the deckhands, workers, craftsmen, slaves, whores, and every other low class citizen. The Throng are a wild and hedonistic mob within Ib and a murderous gang outside of the Teeth. The second half of Ib is the Scarred Lords, the wealthy captains and rules of Ib, who, while at heart are just as wild and brazen, have managed to refine their tastes and emotions. At every Iban's coming of age, a wicker mask is woven into their faces. Each mask consists of 137 different strands of fine wicker. The masks of the Throng are kept on until every strand is removed by a Scarred Lord. The wicker can be removed for any reason that a Scarred Lord finds fitting, for instance, claiming a kill in battle, completing a successful raid or pirating, or showing loyalty and service. If every strand of the mask is removed, the member of the Throng is invited into the small and illustrious ranks of the Scarred Lords. While many outsiders ponder why those of the Throng simply do not remove the wicker on their own, they have clearly not seen the fear and awe that the Scarred Lords strike into the Throng. They fear the wrath of a Scarred Lord more than death itself. Through this strange and brutal social hierarchy, Ib has ensured that only the most ruthless, cunning, and strong will rise to the ruling class.

Even with the respect and terror they command, the Scarred Lords are intelligent enough to know that even a loyal dog will sometimes bite. To keep the Throng in line, the Scarred Lords use a combination of three key things - loot, parties, and the drug hune-sugar. The Scarred Lords control the ships of Ib and live in the highest parts of the Teeth in great pleasure palaces of gilded paper, lacquered wood, and colored glass floors. The Throng lives in the remains of the Teeth - winding and dangerous mazes of half-supported rooms, sudden drops, brothels, and hune-sugar dens.

Reaching the City of Tongues is difficult as it is, but any non-Iban is instantly killed or taken as a slave on sight, unless they are an honored guest of a Scarred Lord - than the whole city is free to them as they are to do anything they desire. And there has yet to be a desire that is unfulfillable in Ib.
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Quote from: LeetzAn ancient, sun-warmed city of rough sandstone and simple architecture, the city resembles a stack of child's blocked stacked around central stone outcropping, atop which rests the Dreaming See, an airy, open temple complex populated by hundreds of seabirds and priestesses devoted to Vin-Shala, the city's eight-armed goddess of luck, visions, and providence.

I really like Salsurel and Vin-Shala, and I especially found the above paragraph to provoke a very intriguing visual when i first read it. I'd like to fulfill my consultant role and say something useful about the city, but there doesn't seem to be much to say beyond "good job". Perhaps a bit more on the city beyond the See/Mothers?
Also, is the face of Vin-Shala covered in writing?
I'll read Ib when I've got time :)

EDIT: hmm, just thinking; how do the priestesses and your setting handle the normal paradoxes of seeing your own future? If they see the future can they take steps to avoid it? Or can't they see their own future like they can't see the future of the Mothers? It sounds like your future is at least mutable, and not inevitable like the greek one (which is a good thing in a game essentially based on choice). Can they look into present/past as well? How far can they see? Could one trick them with sufficiently long and complex plans?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI really like Salsurel and Vin-Shala, and I especially found the above paragraph to provoke a very intriguing visual when i first read it...
Also, is the face of Vin-Shala covered in writing?

EDIT: hmm, just thinking; how do the priestesses and your setting handle the normal paradoxes of seeing your own future? If they see the future can they take steps to avoid it? Or can't they see their own future like they can't see the future of the Mothers? It sounds like your future is at least mutable, and not inevitable like the greek one (which is a good thing in a game essentially based on choice). Can they look into present/past as well? How far can they see? Could one trick them with sufficiently long and complex plans?

thank you sir. (even though I reread that paragraph and it had a few errors, which I've fixed)

and yes, she wears a mask covered in ancient verse.

The priestesses see the future in sporadic visions and enigmatic glimpses, so it's difficult to discern the truth of the future from such snippets. The Myriad Mothers still only see in small glimpses, but, for whatever reason, they are infinitely better at interpreting these visions.

Whether the future is mutable is up for debate really, even the most powerful soothsayers cannot clearly see all possible outcomes. And sometimes avoiding a bad future is what actually leads to the bad future. If someone sees that "They shall die by the points of a hundred blades" they may avoid large groups of people, only to have a knife vendor's stall fall on them. Was it inevitable? or was the avoidance of people what actually led to their death? sometimes people avoid a bad future, sometimes they don't.

But do they see their own future? Because in that case they could just make the opposite choice of whatever they see and thereby prove that they can change the future. Of course, might be difficult to know whether to walk left or right when you only get a flash.
Had another question but it eludes me... Maybe later.

As for Ib:
I still love it. A very visceral feel to it.
What was it with Hune-Sugar again? Does Ib only consist of the city? What defenses does the city have vs. enemy armadas bent on eradicating the very obvious pirate threat? Secret deals/traps hidden in the water/sea monsters? Do the Scarred Lords actually travel on ships, serving as captains? Or can members of the Throng be captains as well, while the Scarred Lords stay confined in their hedonistic luxury?
Also, I can't remember what you called the Throng last, but I think I liked it better. Or maybe I have faulty memory and it was the same :P

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowBut do they see their own future? Because in that case they could just make the opposite choice of whatever they see and thereby prove that they can change the future. Of course, might be difficult to know whether to walk left or right when you only get a flash.

that could work, unless of course them doing the opposite of what they saw was what they were destined to do all along, still leading to the same future...

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowAs for Ib:
I still love it. A very visceral feel to it.
What was it with Hune-Sugar again? Does Ib only consist of the city? What defenses does the city have vs. enemy armadas bent on eradicating the very obvious pirate threat? Secret deals/traps hidden in the water/sea monsters? Do the Scarred Lords actually travel on ships, serving as captains? Or can members of the Throng be captains as well, while the Scarred Lords stay confined in their hedonistic luxury?

hune-sugar was an Argan play on drugs, but I think I'm going to axe it, doesn't mesh well.

as for the city's defenses - Ib is just a single city - I was thinking about moving Ib deeper into the southern half of the belt instead of on the edge. That way, invading armadas would not only have to navigate the shallows and shoals of the maze-like isles, but survive whatever defenses lay hidden on any number of the islands.

and the Scarred Lords are always the captains, as each Lord own his own ship. Some of the Lords though may just decide to keep their ship docked for long stretches of time, enjoying the vices Ib offers. But a Scarred Lord is always a captain, as the Throng cannot work as as group without the leadership of a Lord.

I realize I've been referencing the 6 Ages of Arga without even a little primer, so here it is.

First Age: The Primordial Age of the creator gods. Arga and it's mortal inhabitants were made during this Age, which lasted an eternity. Little, if nothing, is known of this age.

Second Age: The Age of the Half-Gods. After the creator gods left the mortal realms, their half-mortal, half-divine children ruled great kingdoms of unrivaled power, grace, and knowledge. Very few things are left from the Second Age: artifacts from this period are unparalleled in their power and rarity. The ruler of Voy Vasa - the Half-God King Tyrua - is the last of the god's offspring.

Third Age: The Age of Artifice. Even though the half-gods were part divine, they were also part mortal, and so after untold years, all but Tyrua perished, leaving their lands to the mortals. In this time, the knowledge of the divine cosmos was still known, and incredible feats in magic and artifice were forged. Remnants of the Third Age are rare, but so much as those from the Second. Most artifacts and items from this Age are of non-violent design.

Fourth Age: The Age of Ashes. As the Third Age turned to the Fourth, a great civil war amongst mortals took place. Most believe that the wars were fought over remnants of divine knowledge that had been fading away since the very First Age. Very few things are left from this Age, due to it's violent nature, as most things created during this time were subsequently destroyed in the never-ending wars. Remnants of the Fourth Age, unlike the Third, frequently were designed for war and conflict. The greatest weapons known to Arga were forged during this time.

Fifth Age: The Age of Kings. After the wars of the Fourth Age could no longer sustain themselves and nearly all the knowledge of the cosmos lost or destroyed, mortals once again built empires, but this time of brick and stone rather than aether and magic. These mortal empires lasted for thousands of years, until strange circumstances brought them low. Many ruins and items remain from this Age, some of worth, others not.

Sixth Age: The current, unnamed Age. After the fall of the Fifth Age empires, the untamed lands became wild and savage as mortal-kind flocked to the few remaining cities that offered refuge. But now is also a time of exploration, rediscovery, and adventure. Ruins are delved, old knowledge recovered, and ancient magics unearthed.

Hmm, about the divine lineage:
It seems you are alluding that every human is in a way simply a diluted God, which is pretty cool!
But how did the first strain of mortality enter the divine lineage? Does God+Goddess simply always yield a half-god (maybe due to the conception being on the material plane)?
Or were there some primordial mortal creatures?
I realize this might just be vague myth in the world, but I'd like to know how the clergy explains it :)

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowIt seems you are alluding that every human is in a way simply a diluted God, which is pretty cool!
But how did the first strain of mortality enter the divine lineage? Does God+Goddess simply always yield a half-god (maybe due to the conception being on the material plane)?

well not really, some could be, but this is how I picture it (the write up was really quick and by the seat of my pants, so I'll go over it again and clarify things) In the First Age, the gods created mortals, and some of the gods got frisky with the some of the mortals = half-gods.

also, the city of Otha

[ic=Otha - the Pilgrim's Port]Nicknames: The Pilgrim's Port, the Dead God's City
Resources: Paper, ancient texts, religious trinkets
Leader: The Unspoken
Population: 2,500, plus around 8,000 pilgrims at any time

Otha is a city of contradictions, a city of gods and pilgrims watched over by those who are unsure of their existence. A place owned by all yet devoted to none. Like lichen on stone, the present city is built upon ruins thought to date to the Second Age.
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ok this will be finished later, writers block and cold hands make typing a bear. but basically, Otha is a city of shrines devoted to every god that is and ever was (some say there are hidden shrines to gods that are to be). it is ruled by a council of agnostics, who claim to be biding their time until they are sure in their decision on the nature of the gods. This is an evolution of the previous Arga's city of Merluna and it's Dead God's Ward.

also, any comments, criticisms, compliments on Arga thus far? anyone?

since we have seemed to be on a guild-wide discussion of magic and stuff, I thought I'd post a list of the "magic" that exists so far in Arga. I'm taking the "mystic mystery" approach to magic: no one's sure how or what it works, where it all comes from, if it's just one source or many, or if it comes from the gods, Arga, or something beyond. I realize there are lots of things unexplained here, but that's how I want to keep it - mysterious, and magical (Something akin to how magic is treated in ASoIaF). I've also been trying to finish up my ArgaFUDGE rules, where these magic types are used like a skill, not on their own separate system.

Verasa, the Sight-Beyong
Verasa is the ancient soothsaying and fortune telling magic of the priestesses of Salsurel. Only females so blessed by the goddess Vin-Shala may take this skill. Verasa can be used to predict the future, read signs and portents that the goddess may send, and explore the clairvoyant mysteries.
   
Phaen, the Wild Flame
The wild and savage magic of entropy and decay. In order to take this skill, a character, at creation, must claim he was born under the dire circumstances that create the Phaen-born, children blessed and cursed with the power of entropy. The Phaen-born have the ability to call on the wild power of chaos as they see fit. Foul fire, rapid decay, and vile transmutations are the realm of Phaen.

Aethra, the Great Nothing
Beyond Arga rest the Void, and through it the Aethra flows. The domain of dark gods long forgotten by all but coldest souls, the magic of the Void is the realm of the Aethramar, the cultist-philosophers of the ebon, alien lords of the realms beyond reality. Only an Aethramar deemed worthy be the denizens of the Void is allowed to tap into the Aethra, the Great Nothing. The powers of Aethra deal with antithesis' and the concept of nothingness.  

Thuerma, the Artifice Boon
Once a great force drawn from the beating heart of Arga itself, Thuerma is the ancient making-magic of the Dura. A mere shadow of what it once was, Thuerma is rare amongst the deepfolk, as many are wary that it was this magic that caused their gilded Machines to turn mad. Still, the making-magic is too useful in the Dura's crusade against their iron demons to abandon. Thuerma reveals it's powers through rune, glyphs, and artifice. While most Thuerma-users are Dura, on occasion the knowledge has been passed onto a trusted member of the Sky-Watchers (surface races).

The Steel-Song
Thought by many scholars to draw it's power from the same source as Thuerma, the Steel-Song '" a rough translation of an unpronounceable Vorr word '" is the basis of the great forge-works of the Vorr. Unlike Thuerma, no race other than the bestial Vorr seem to be able to wield this magic. Weapons and armor forged with the assistance of the Steel-Song are unparalleled in their quality, durability, and beauty.

I would really really like to hear about what everyone thinks about these so far.

[ic=The Anthos, the Wild Mortals]
Nicknames: Mankind, Manlings
Diet: Meat, fish, vegetables, grains
Homelands: The Lost Lands
Gods: Many

The Anthos
The Anthos are a people of contradictions and contrasts. They are short-lived, short-sighted, and short-tempered, but they have founded some of the greatest empires that have ever marked the face of Arga. Their cities are unsurpassed in their size and squalor, but stand as pinnacles of culture and knowledge. The Sixth Age is the time of Mankind.

Unlike the other mortal races who have retreated and safeguarded their ancestral homelands, the Anthos have a penchant for travel and an inborn wanderlust. Ever since the first ships of Manlings arrived from the distant shores of the Lost Lands on the eve of the Second Age, they have spread across Arga, forging kingdoms and cities through toil and persistence. It is said that all Anthos once looked the same - tall and strong, fair of skin and dark of hair. But now, there is little resemblance amongst them. Those from the cold reaches of the city of Kelos are strong and stout, with wind-weathered skin, eyes like pitch, and pale hair. Those of Ib are sinuous, dark, and wiry while those from the Voy Vasa sport smooth bronze skin and eyes of purple or yellow. From city to city, and region to region, the physical appearance of the Anthos changes.

Anthos society varies as much as their appearance. The free-cities of Tezzeret, Argaza, and Milas, the militant fortress of Rigus, and the ebon tower of Illix are just a few examples. In fact, the Anthos place their loyalties to their city or kingdom far before that of their race.

More to come.

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Although I know how much I'd want general comments on the setting myself, I'm not really sure I have anything to say as such. But I'll tell you if something comes to mind!
Otha seems like an interesting city. Why did it become the center of all religions? Who is the Unspoken? (you seem to have a penchant for leaders with one-word titles).
Magic:
Verasa - The name sounds more like a city than a magical discipline to me, but I might be too accustomed to -mancies and -logies :) Also, I think you spelled Beyond wrong in the title.
Phaen - would probably emphasise the darkness and entropy more. (hard to do with so little text I know, but when you eventually write more on it)
Aethra - Now, I should have some idea what this is about since I helped create the Athemancers, but I can't say that paragraph was helpful on the matter. Exactly what can Aethra do in its current incarnation?
Thuerma and Steel-Song - exactly what can Steel-Song do that Thuerma can't? Also good that Steel-Song falls out of the naming patterns set by the other.

As I understood it, you wanted to take magic in a direction where it was not so much "there are these types of magic" but rather "these guys have developed this magic, to the east we have this magic, this cult has this magic etc". Now, the way you have written this you are still somewhat in the former category. The disciplines sound universal and connected. The names have something of a similar ring to them and you only actually mention the users in the description itself where it seems more like an example than a singular fact that no one else uses that kind of magic.
Instead of drawing attention to the disciplines I would therefore draw attention to the practitioners; the cabals. So that we instead have headings like: the Oracles of Salsurel, the Fireborn, the Athemancers of the Far North etc.
In your old setting incarnation you did this with the Athemancers and they stood out as something unique. To point to someone who have done something similar you could look at Luminous Crayon's magic and the diversity it evokes just by being separate and unique (although it is probably more racially dependant than you should make it)
Well, hope that helped. And that my opinions are useful and I'm not just annoying the hell out of you; I get the feeling that, like with me, your campaign is in a state of flux until you reach that semi-perfect idea, so I reckon it is not much of a problem that I critisize your choice.
Not much to say about the Anthos/humans.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowWell, hope that helped. And that my opinions are useful and I'm not just annoying the hell out of you; I get the feeling that, like with me, your campaign is in a state of flux until you reach that semi-perfect idea, so I reckon it is not much of a problem that I critisize your choice.

haha, that's exactly it. and no! please comment, more if possible, because otherwise I think I like something, and then after I built upon I realize it's inconsistent or spotty, so it's best to get criticism right of the bat. haha, you cannot comment enough, trust me!

also, any new BV stuff? what about focusing just on the north for now? Kolyaev (i spelled that wrong I know) was really really cool, and cold, snowy settings are in short supply.

The problem I'm having with magic is finding a middle ground between the regional, varied magic I want for the setting while still being able to turn it into meta-game and keep some semblance of unity. Another is a plot device or reason for people/PCs who would study magic in these specific cities to leave the city. Also, what would keep them from learning multiple schools of magic? If a PC knew like 3-4 different things of magic, I feel like it would get "muddy" and undefined.

Maybe different magics would cancel out each other, making people focus on just one? Some magics could have religious connotations to them. But not all cities have a "magic school" associated with them, and some magics, like Phaen, would be neat if they were universal. (Arga, actually, is just a continent of a much larger world, so there is some sense of cultural unity in Arga. Much like the ancient cultures of the Aegean, unified culturally, but not politically.) Any thoughts? Even questions would be welcomed, maybe I'll think of some answer I haven't!

QuoteAnother is a plot device or reason for people/PCs who would study magic in these specific cities to leave the city.

Also, what would keep them from learning multiple schools of magic? If a PC knew like 3-4 different things of magic, I feel like it would get "muddy" and undefined.
[/quote]What do you need to do to be able to use a type of magic? You could set things up so that some/all of the magic schools have different requirements, which are mutually exclusive.

Maybe School A requires your wizard to be the host body for a symbiont magic ghost (god, that is a ridiculous phrase to type), and School B requires your wizard to have a rare crystal to focus his powers through. If ghosts are allergic to crystals, then you obviously can't have one person use both powers!

I mean, obviously this is a terrible, lame example, but based on what I've seen of Arga, you should have no problem at all coming up with more interesting ideas along this theme if you want to.

those could all work well, but I'm still trying to figure out why a certain magic would exist in just one region or city. Again, I come to the use of leylines, but that would mean classifying and organizing different types of magic for the different leylines, something I'm trying to avoid. Having the magic be "divine" *cringe* could explain it as well, but I'm loathe to have gods be tangible and proven.

I do use my void-born sources as trhey are accessable anywhere, and actually welcome the interaction of magic, since the whole game is built to be easier to learn new skills than to get too powerful in a single discipline, especially as the character continues.

I do kind of like the ideas of nationalized/regionalized magic.  Somehow, I'm getting this sports team analogy in my head.

Other sources could include spirits of certain types or races, elemental connections, Historical resonances, ancient artifacts, the Creative Unconsious, The Carnal Urge.

And of course, Lesbianstripperninjas.

You could have historical reasons for it, or political reasons. Maybe a particular type of magic is prevalent in a particular area because it was invented/discovered/popularized there. Maybe it's absent in other areas because the government has outlawed it (perhaps fearing a threat to their power base), or because the superstitious natives have pushed back against it (maybe because according to their ancient beliefs, it's bad juju).

If you wanted to use religion as a factor, it seems like there'd be ways to do so without proving that religion is correct.

Quote from: LordVreegOther sources could include spirits of certain types or races, elemental connections, Historical resonances, ancient artifacts, the Creative Unconsious, The Carnal Urge.

And of course, Lesbianstripperninjas.

I thought something similar to that. Maybe a city was built upon the site where a god/big spirit died, and there are residual energies still left. I was also thinking artifacts or the effects of them, with Arga having 5 previous Ages, it wouldn't be hard to fathom. Having "pools" of energies could also work.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonYou could have historical reasons for it, or political reasons. Maybe a particular type of magic is prevalent in a particular area because it was invented/discovered/popularized there. Maybe it's absent in other areas because the government has outlawed it (perhaps fearing a threat to their power base), or because the superstitious natives have pushed back against it (maybe because according to their ancient beliefs, it's bad juju).

If you wanted to use religion as a factor, it seems like there'd be ways to do so without proving that religion is correct.

I'd like to try to avoid political reasons that run too deep, but historic, and more interesting, cultural reasons will most likely play into things, like the universal distrust of Phaen (the chaos/entropy magic)

I also should have mentioned this earlier, but I would like magic in Arga to be very similar to how magic is portrayed in ASoIaF

Bloodlines is an obvious way to limit the users; only those born with the potential can eventually develop the skill. Phaen seems to be well-suited for this approach. A slight variation of this could be the "mutation" (not x-men) where an anomaly develops once in every million humans born.
Cultural ties are another obvious limiter. Steel-Song would never be taught to humans, and one would think that the Seers would only allow the children of Salsurel to join them.
It could also be explained with a sort of "cultural resonance" where only a specific mindset can align itself with the ideas behind different systems of magic. The systems are consequences of worldviews.  
You can also have enormous tuitions, hidden illegal schools, or theories that take a lifetime to learn even the basics off. Or maybe magic starts seeping out of you as soon as you direct your attention elsewhere. Plenty of options.

(As for my own setting it has always been my idea to focus on the north, and I'm writing something on a new country right now)
 

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowBloodlines is an obvious way to limit the users; only those born with the potential can eventually develop the skill. Phaen seems to be well-suited for this approach. A slight variation of this could be the "mutation" (not x-men) where an anomaly develops once in every million humans born.

That could work. I was thinking that those from Salsurel could be able to see the future/past, whether it would be some bloodline thing, blessing, or "something in the water." The Phaen-born would be born under certain auspices, like having the moons aligned, having certain weather, something like that. specific and somewhat dark. Both of these, talking meta-game, would have to be an option chosen at character creation, so it could work.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowYou can also have enormous tuitions, hidden illegal schools, or theories that take a lifetime to learn even the basics off. Or maybe magic starts seeping out of you as soon as you direct your attention elsewhere. Plenty of options.

I'd really like to avoid using organized schools of magic in the traditional sense, even though I do have the priestesses of Salsurel, which I may axe in favor of a super-free, strange city of all these seers. Actually, I'd rather not have "book" magic in Arga, and instead make it an intuitive thing. Alchemy could take the place of "book" magic with potions and stuff taking the place of some common magic effects.

Quote from: Cataclysmic Crow(As for my own setting it has always been my idea to focus on the north, and I'm writing something on a new country right now.

huzzah!

Hmm, I personally wouldn't axe Salsurel. Having a seer-only city seems a bit artificial, so stay with the mixed approach. But I can imagine Thuerma being taught in some way, and the seers of Salsurel being taken in by the priestesses of Vin-Shala. Hmm, why not have the priestesses drug young children while they grow up to trigger their visions or rewire their entire psyche? Maybe it has side-effects. Hypersensitivity is an obvious option.
Phaen would be as unpredictable an anomaly as the magic it governs. It appears without pattern and the wielder either learns to control it or is consumed by its unholy flames (or maybe he just slowly putrefies; magical lepers?).

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowHmm, I personally wouldn't axe Salsurel. Having a seer-only city seems a bit artificial, so stay with the mixed approach. But I can imagine Thuerma being taught in some way, and the seers of Salsurel being taken in by the priestesses of Vin-Shala. Hmm, why not have the priestesses drug young children while they grow up to trigger their visions or rewire their entire psyche? Maybe it has side-effects. Hypersensitivity is an obvious option.
Phaen would be as unpredictable an anomaly as the magic it governs. It appears without pattern and the wielder either learns to control it or is consumed by its unholy flames (or maybe he just slowly putrefies; magical lepers?).

oh no, I'm keep Salsurel for sure! I was just thinking about getting rid of the priesthood that ruled the city, and instead making it a more secular, vaguely occult, city of dreamers and soothsayers. Maybe those born with the sight outside of the city are inexplicably drawn to the city through visions in dreams? Or perhaps they sleep-walk/travel to the city, one day simply waking up there. And not everyone in the city would be seers, even most who claim to be are most likely street-charlatans or tarot card readers. A few though, really would have the Gift.

and you're right about the randomness of the Phaen, considering that it's the embodiment of entropy and decay. Random is good. and with your phrase of It appears without pattern and the wielder either learns to control it or is consumed by its unholy flames (or maybe he just slowly putrefies; magical lepers?)., you now know exactly how I want to portray them.

Oh, the inexplicable draw of Salsurel could be good! People from all over the world who journey in trance until they come to a rest in the City of Dreams. Drawn to an obscure idol standing in a strange abandoned temple on top of large hill. People seeking the wisdom of the catatonic entranced seers come to the city, and eventually a city grew up around the phenomenon.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowOh, the inexplicable draw of Salsurel could be good! People from all over the world who journey in trance until they come to a rest in the City of Dreams. Drawn to an obscure idol standing in a strange abandoned temple on top of large hill. People seeking the wisdom of the catatonic entranced seers come to the city, and eventually a city grew up around the phenomenon.

exactly! except only a small fraction of the city's seers would actually have the power. Most would not. Picture a city street crowded with all these false seers, offering card readings, interpreting the flights of birds, looking at the bottom of tea cups, stuff like that. The REAL seers would have far more important and mysterious things to do.

And most people that come to the city would do so on their own accord, only those ordained by Fate would have the tugging visions that would bring them to the city. Those who have an important destiny would be found by the real seers.

ok, here's a rewrite of Salsurel as more of the free, dreamer city.

[ic=Salsurel, the Oracle City]Nicknames: Soothsayer City, Dreamfall, the Oracle City
Resources: Visions, glass and crystal goods, spices
Population: 18,500
Leader: The Dreaming See

"Just because the future can be known, does not mean it is to be known."
-Anonymous seer.

On the warm, rocky shores between the Sea of Raza and the South Sigil Sea sits the city of Salsurel - the Soothsayer City, the Dreamfall. A place of visions, omens, and oracles, the city has long been a place for those seeking answers and purpose, watched over by those that know the present, past, and future. An ancient, sun-warmed city of rough sandstone and simple architecture, the city resembles a stack of child's blocks piled around central a stone outcropping, atop which rests the Font of the Nameless Dreamer, an airy, open temple complex populated by hundreds of seabirds and an ancient statue of the Dreamer herself. She has no clergy or temple, for her realm is that of dreams and omens, not stone and flesh. From this high perch, the mysterious spirit-goddess of Salsurel watches over the dreams of her city.

Salsurel is most famous for it's seers, soothsayers, and fortune-tellers. Travelers and seekers from across Arga make the trip in hopes of glimpsing their futures. The busy streets and avenues of the city are crowded with tarot shufflers, crystal-ball gazers, and  palm readers. One booth after another line the sun drenched streets, each claiming their own mastery over fate and fortune. But most of the soothsayers of the city's have little, if any, claim to the mysteries beyond and have more penchant for showmanship and flattery than for seeing. Still, their words are heeded - sometimes seriously, and sometimes with a grain of salt.

Yet, amongst the many are a few that truly have the gift. These diamonds in the rough see all that was, all that is, and all that is to come. No one is quite sure why Salsurel holds so many - some say all - of Arga's seers. Many believe that the city calls out to those with the gift, urging and beckoning them to the city. Others say that there is "something in the water" of Salsurel that blesses the chosen few with the sight. What ever the reasons are, those who know are not speaking.

Beneath the high cliffs of the Font rests the labyrinthine alleys and paths of the old city. The most important and renowned sections of the city are as follow.

Tea-Leaf Street
Several blocks in from the docks of the city runs Tea-Leaf Street. A bustling and energetic row of fortune-teller's abodes, trinket shops, and, of course, tea houses. The tall, sun-bleached buildings arch over the street and the branching alleys, above which banners and awnings of all colors hang still in the heat. The smells of simmering tea, warm spices, and the earthy scent of heat drift along the street while tea house hawkers and street-seers flatter passersby.

The most famous of the many tea houses is that of Madame Salla, The Red Mask. A three-story tea house, decorated in red-lacquered wood, The Mask always seems to carry the din of hushed conversation and the blue-gray haze of incense and pipe-smoke no matter the hour of day. While she has never claimed to have the true gift, Madame Salla's propensity for reading the tea leaves that remain on the bottom of a finished cup has earned her quite the reputation. In addition to the delicious tea and the learning of fortunes, The Red Mask is a font of information and those that deal in it.

The Whispering Walls
Deep in the heart of the oldest part of the city rests the Whispering Walls. A maze of narrow corridors, steep stairways, and sudden dead ends, this side of Salsurel is where the true seers reside. Furtive as the beams of sunlight that occasional break the shadows of the old city, The Walls hold many secrets in the twists and turns of their ancient stones. Those in the know often scour the labyrinth of the Whispering Walls, seeking those who see all. However, the true tellers of the city are seen and heard only if they wish it, and many a persistent traveler has spent years searching the Walls, never to find what they are looking for.

It is said that one does not find the true seers of the city, but that they find you. No amount of gold and no reputation of power, ill or benign, will garner one an audience with those that see beyond. Only those with important parts to play in the games of Fate will be seen by those with the gift: those who can read dreams.

While there are many famed seers of equal parts myth and truth, the most renowned of them all is an ancient women who is known as Rule-of-Two. Rumor has it that every wrinkle and line upon her frail body has been traced in eldritch inks that wriggle and move with a life of their own. They also say that she tattooed her eyes as well, turning them into solid black orbs. It is also said that her name is derived from the fact that she tells fortunes in pairs of events, but that is all hear-say.

The Port
Salsurel also has a small, but busy, port along the Eastern sea-lanes. Pungent spices from Penzanda, delicate glass from Illix, and slaves from Voy Vasa are traded for well-crafted Vorretian steel, hides and ivory from Milas, and the newest clockwork inventions from Tezzeret. The sun-drenched docks, warm breezes, and infamous gulla - a peppery, fiery-sweet liquor - make Salsurel a favorite destination for Arga-trotting travelers and sea-soaked sailors.
[/ic]

I'm liking the new Salsurel, though I'm seeing nothing on government. Who rules the city?

Quote from: LeetzThey also say that she tattooed her eyes as well, turning them into solid black orbs.

Wonderfully creepy!

well, no one really rules the city. communal vigilantism deals with crimes and punishments. Any one who tries to control the city often meets grisly, mysterious end. there have been attempts in the past from outside powers that attempt to capture the city. The last was a Fifth Age invasion from the Pellan Empire that met mishap after mishap until the invasion was canceled. Fate apparently favors the city.

So it's a form of anarchism that actually works? Now that's fantasy :D

haha, yeah it's something like that. you could say that the city is ran by "Karma Police" (that's a Radiohead reference for ya'll). Bad things always seem to happen to bad people, so people behave themselves. mostly.

I like the new intro with "She has no clergy or temple, for her realm is that of dreams and omens, not stone and flesh." Sets the new tone well.
Tea-Leaf Street is great! And nice how you put in an actual establishment; I never seem to able to do that without taking up too much space.
The "something in the water" comment is a bit out of place. I'd remove that. Also, I'm not sure about the whispering walls. I'd have liked better if the seers didn't have a "home" and freely walked the city in their mysterious trance. (if there really is a strange trance involved I'd mention that; also perhaps the draw the city has on chosen foreigners).

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI like the new intro with "She has no clergy or temple, for her realm is that of dreams and omens, not stone and flesh." Sets the new tone well.
Tea-Leaf Street is great! And nice how you put in an actual establishment; I never seem to able to do that without taking up too much space.
The "something in the water" comment is a bit out of place. I'd remove that. Also, I'm not sure about the whispering walls. I'd have liked better if the seers didn't have a "home" and freely walked the city in their mysterious trance. (if there really is a strange trance involved I'd mention that; also perhaps the draw the city has on chosen foreigners).

why thank ya sir.

I really liked how Tea Leaf Street turned out, I thought it gave the city a little more of an exotic, oriental flair. Even though tea houses = the ol' tavern.

I hope the Walls grow on you, cuz I liked how they turned out. Kind this old city maze, a seer's slum, where the real seers hide and carry on with whatever they do. And i'm not sure I'm going to emphasize the trance, I might save tht for another city.

Hmm, just seems weird that a city of seers only has seers in one place. But it'll probably grow on me as you say :)

well, kinda. There are seers and fortune tellers all over the city, all of varying degrees of ability. But, in the deepest alleys and crannies of the oldest parts of the city is where you will find the best, and also maddest, of all of Salsurel's seers.  

But if it is common knowledge that the best seers are in that labyrinth, why would anyone ever visit the others?
Also, normal people do live in the Whispering Walls right? It's like a labyrinthine district only with seers?
Or is it abandoned excepting the seers?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowBut if it is common knowledge that the best seers are in that labyrinth, why would anyone ever visit the others?
Also, normal people do live in the Whispering Walls right? It's like a labyrinthine district only with seers?
Or is it abandoned excepting the seers?

I want it to be this strange, mysterious part of the city that most people are either too timid to enter, because weird thins happen in the walls, or they just don't believe that real seers would live there in the shadows and dust, and that it's just full of crazy people. Most people are content to not go there. This is a TERRIBLE example, but imagine like, New York City's Time Square. It's really nice and exiting, but if you really want to see the real NY, you have to go to places that might be just a bit dangerous.

alright, the revamped Vorr should be making an appearance soon. New art - kinda - and a new back-story. I think I'm totally cutting the Vorr metalworking. It was a good idea at first, but it feels forced now, especially considering that the Dura have slowly picked up the metalworking race. This may sound strange, but the culture of the Vorr revolves around bells.

[ic=The Vorr - the Bell Makers]
Nicknames: Ringers
Diet: Grains
Homeland: Dravos and the Vorr Lands
Gods: Dravorr the Bell-Forger

The Vorr
To many, the Vorr seem a wild and uncouth race, and in many cases they would be correct. They are temperamental, ill-humored, and reserved. Their fearsome appearance only adds to their icy personalities. At roughly seven feet tall, the Vorr are lean and well-muscled. Their upper bodies resemble those of other mortal races - such as the Anthos and Dura. Their long, thick arms end in four-fingered hands. Their weight is carried upon short and powerful bestial legs, ending in jet-black hoofs. Their stout necks hold up their massive and heavy skulls, topped with a pair of sweeping horns the color ivory.

Rough, course fur covers their heads and necks, forearms, and legs. Earthy tones of red and brown are the most common, although shades of black, gray, and even white are not unheard of. Their fur does not gray as they age. Male Vorr often decorate their tangled "beards" with small beads and rings of metal, not unlike the Dura. Female Vorr tend to be thinner, more sinuous, and more lithe than their male counterparts. Gaps in the fur reveal tough, leathery skin darkened by the sun and winds of the Vorr Lands. Their hides are often rough enough to turn away glancing blows and stabs.


The Vorr simple, functional clothing, most often of heavy leather and iron. The few pieces of jewelry they do sport are simple, well-crafted things like bracelets, earrings, and rings. Male Vorr often wear a well-made loincloth, fastened with a belt or cloth; even in the coldest places of Arga, the Vorr seem little perturbed by bitter weather. Female Vorr wear loose-fitting tunics in addition to the loincloth.

The Vorr procreate slowly, although not so much as the Dura. They reach maturity quickly, usually by the age of 15. They can live well into their second century and suffer next to no ill-effects from aging. In fact, the oldest of the Vorr are not only the wisest, but greatest warriors as well. It is these elders that rule their people under a light patriarchy. The Vorr send their prayers to Dravorr the Bell-Forger, the guardian and creator of the race. Bells play an important part in their cultures, being both instrument, mode of communication, and religious icon. All Vorr carry at least a single bell on them. The holy-weapon of Dravorris called the Bell-flail and is a beautiful and frightful weapon to behold. In addition to their religious significance, the bells are used across the plains of the Vorr Lands to communicate, as the ears of the Vorr are much more perceptive than that of any other mortal race.

The Vorr Lands
The Vorr Lands - as they are called in the Old Tongue, and whose true name in Vorrish cannot be pronounced by the tongues of other mortals - is a wind-swept plain of tall grasses and bitter storms. It is a beautiful and rugged land of gently rolling hills dotted by rough stone buttes and storm-wracked cliffs along the shores. Vorrish legend says that these buttes are the petrified bells of heroes and ancestors. Many of these bell-stones are associated with a single character from Vorrish legend. Traveling Vorr will leave offerings of several small tin bells at the feet of bell-stones that pertain to their ancestry, craft, or personal admiration.

The only permanent Vorr settlement is the city of Dravos. It is built atop the highest butte in the Vorr Lands, which they believe to be the petrified bell of Dravorr the Bell-Forger himself. The city is austere and simply crafted, made of large fitted stones and crowned by a number of stout bell towers. The city serves as a hub of trading and exchange amongst the Vorr in addition to housing the only true temple to Dravorr in Arga: the House of a Hundred Bells.


While the Vorr are undoubtedly an introverted and reserved race, they feel the pangs of exploration and wanderlust as much as other mortals. It is fairly common for a young Vorr to embark upon a journey - lasting as much as a decade - into the lands of the Anthos, the Dura, and others to sate their wanderlust. The Vorr surprisingly travel well through foreign lands, most likely due to their introverted nature and fearsome appearance. On rare occasions, these wandering Vorr plant roots in foreign settlements for decades, attracted to the myriad experiences that exist outside the Lands.

Histoty
The history of the Vorr is as guarded as they are. Not ones to keep written records, the legacy of the Bell-Ringers exists only in oral tradition and legend, and these are rarely spoken to outsiders. What is known is that the Vorr have originated, and always lived, in their Lands. While they fiercely have defended their home on numerous occasions, they never have seemed to lust for conquest and war, content to exist within their rugged and beautiful plains. [/ic]

They don't seem as rough or bestial as in their first appaerance?
Also, I wouldn't call refer to them as beastmen. Too many associations with that name.  

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowThey don't seem as rough or bestial as in their first appaerance?
Also, I wouldn't call refer to them as beastmen. Too many associations with that name.  

really? I thought my revamped doodle made them much more bestial than before. what about the writing makes them seem less rough? And I agree with the beastmen, that can be axed.

Forum Question would my doodles look more, I dunno, fantastic, if I gave them a parchment tone instead of greyscale?

Oh, the picture looks bestial enough.
But they seem to be way more civilized now, they have gone over to having a benevolent god, and in general don't seem to be as aggressive or xenophobic or dark as before.
The bells are cool though, and the church sounds pretty awe-inspiring.

hmmm, well I don't mind them being somewhat civilized, I should probably add a couple more segments about them being temperamental. I was also going to put in about about Vorr law: first offense means one horn cut off, second offense the other horn, third offense, execution.

was also thinking that the Vorr believed thunder and lightning came from Dravorr forging a new bell - thunder from the bell, lightning from the forge-sparks. -oooh! maybe all the bells in his temple would suspended over beds of hot coals keeping them red-hot so they also sparked when they are rung.

Quote from: Leetzmaybe all the bells in his temple would suspended over beds of hot coals keeping them red-hot so they also sparked when they are rung.

Wouldn't that also make them dent and deformed very easily?

They're magic bells :)

Ah, magic indeed makes everything easier :P
Except there is a slight issue with you just having decided to remove their magical steelcraft? I don't see the Vorr studying Thuerma with the dwarves or in Tezzeret. Of course they could be artifacts of old.
But the temple still sounds awesome in the original sense of the word. And Vorr law sounds nice. Can imagine the hornless being shunned.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowAh, magic indeed makes everything easier :P
Except there is a slight issue with you just having decided to remove their magical steelcraft? I don't see the Vorr studying Thuerma with the dwarves or in Tezzeret. Of course they could be artifacts of old.
But the temple still sounds awesome in the original sense of the word. And Vorr law sounds nice. Can imagine the hornless being shunned.

yeah, not sure about Vorr magics yet. I was thinking that they think any magic that doesn't come from their god is weak and worthless. And I thought the laws added a nice savage/just contrast.

And I too really like the visual I'm getting from their temple. A hundred softly glowing bells, everything cast in a reddish light and heat shimmers.

new race idea:

a trollish/orcish/ogrish race. Basically a brute, "dumb" race. I was milling through the Forgotten Realms book the other day and came across this picture

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/FR_ART/People/Arrk.jpg

and thought that not only did it look Arga-y, but having a brutish race would be neat. I think that they would also work well being a somewhat amphibious, aquatic race. The Trollbone Coast would be a good homeland I think. There could have been creatures called trolls in past ages, but they have all died out, and X race are they're smaller, slightly more intelligent cousins. thoughts?

Or they could come from the Claws and be decent sailors of large, crude ships. Or the Verdant Coast, because it's jungle-y. All just thoughts.

I like it and don't like it at the same time. Trollish beings are cool, and I can only imagine you'd do something even cooler with them, but they might be leaning a bit up against Vorr territory in the whole big, strong category.
Perhaps if you basically made them real nasty and disgusting they'd have an (obscure) niche for themselves.
Hmm, I'm not sure they should be sailors. Having them be amphibious swamp/jungle/coast creatures who live in water but fear or respect the open ocean sounds better to me.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI like it and don't like it at the same time. Trollish beings are cool, and I can only imagine you'd do something even cooler with them, but they might be leaning a bit up against Vorr territory in the whole big, strong category.
Perhaps if you basically made them real nasty and disgusting they'd have an (obscure) niche for themselves.
Hmm, I'm not sure they should be sailors. Having them be amphibious swamp/jungle/coast creatures who live in water but fear or respect the open ocean sounds better to me.

yeah, there are quite a few pitfalls when it comes to new races. One option would be to "shrink" the Vorr. Make them only slightly larger than the Anthos (humans) but still be stronger. Since I seemed to subliminally civilized the Vorr (which I like more I think) I feel like it would be o.k. to have another "giant" race.

 Should that mean I should have a "small" race? Or am I suffering from DnD addiction?

No, you don't need a small race. And you could always make the "trolls" human-sized yet stronger and tougher. A stringy mass of muscle and fiber. Although I don't think there is something wrong with having them be large.
But you definitely shouldn't shrink the Vorr.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowNo, you don't need a small race. And you could always make the "trolls" human-sized yet stronger and tougher. A stringy mass of muscle and fiber. Although I don't think there is something wrong with having them be large.
But you definitely shouldn't shrink the Vorr.

ok. no Vorr shrinking. Like a mentioned, I really liked the FR troll in the earlier link, so maybe the "trolls" will be larger, but hunched over with a devious posture.

...

(//../../e107_files/public/1264977211_959_FT75313_arga_fireeyed_pheltos_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1264977211_959_FT75313_arga_fireeyed_pheltos.jpg)


Since I've been repeatedly side-tracked this weekend by things like bars, I haven't gotten around to writing about the Phaen-born. I have, however, managed to upload the art for the Phaen-born. This is Fire-Eyed Pheltos, a potential character in Arga.

so right now i have a bunch of ideas I want to implement in Arga and thought I'd list it real quick to get some feedback and maybe to see what would be the interesting.

- Sea traveling gypsies. Like a mesh of Irish Travelers and the  Gadia Lohar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadia_Lohar).
- The fore-mentioned sea-people, the Maeren.
- "Gunpowder" weapons. Bear with me...
- And on the "gunpowder" note, maybe extremely crude, Da Vinci-esque machine transports in certain areas.

Also, still not sure what to do about magic. On one hand, it would be nice to be able to categorize, label, and explain all the magic in Arga. But on the other hand, that's kinda boring, un-mysterious, and very DnD. suggestions?

The gypsies sound like they could be pretty cool. What did you want their origins to be? Are they met with prejudice, or welcomed? Also, are you going with the smith profession of the lohar, or were you thinking they'd be something else in addition to sailors?

What have you said about the Maeren? I can imagine flotillas of barges or something like that (floating towns) fitting into your setting. The name is a bit too close to mere for my taste, and is a bit too close to many of your other words (thuerma, phaen spring to mind). You should perhaps try to cultivate culturally different word groups.  

I don't mind gunpowder. I've had very mixed opinions about them during the making of my own setting. On one hand they are cool, and don't require that tedious, constant, action-stopping reloading you see in other weapons. On the other hand, a gun is essentially death incarnate in the hands of any person. Anyone can put a gun to the back of somebody's head and he is as good as dead already, while a sword to the throat doesn't seem so much of a death sentence.

What do you mean by Da Vinci-esque machines for transport? I know he made a lot of wondrous vehicles and such, but which did you think on using? Strange flying machines? His tank-like machines?

On magic. Systems-wise it might help if you don't so much consider it as different schools but as different abilities. The ability to remake, the ability to burn, the ability to divine etc etc. Make a good load of these (you could call them the gift of ____). Some cultures possess knowledge of many of these gifts, while others know of only a few, and they might be regulated in different ways. Also, the gifts might work in different ways depending on which culture one grew up in. In the south, the wild shamans might teach diviners to look at the insides of sacrificed animals, while in Salsurel they prefer tea leaves and drugs, and in Tezzeret you can only study diviniation through astrology.
I'm not sure whether this is any good, just an idea.  

Quote from: Leetz- Sea traveling gypsies. Like a mesh of Irish Travelers and the  Gadia Lohar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadia_Lohar).

Very cool idea. Perhaps they could use outrigger canoes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outrigger_canoe)?

Quote from: Leetz- And on the "gunpowder" note, maybe extremely crude, Da Vinci-esque machine transports in certain areas.

Do you mean 'machines' as something powered by an engine? Or simply mechanical appartuses that make better use of available sources of power (muscle, wind, etc)?

Quote from: LeetzAlso, still not sure what to do about magic. On one hand, it would be nice to be able to categorize, label, and explain all the magic in Arga. But on the other hand, that's kinda boring, un-mysterious, and very DnD. suggestions?

Instead of explaining everything, cover only the basic features of each major form of magic. Just enough information that one can handle a "typical" magic user. More esoteric magics could be left undetailed until they're actually discovered in the course of a story.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowThe gypsies sound like they could be pretty cool. What did you want their origins to be? Are they met with prejudice, or welcomed? Also, are you going with the smith profession of the lohar, or were you thinking they'd be something else in addition to sailors?

In line with the Gadia Lohar, I was thinking that they could be part of the survivors of the old Empire that unified Arga in the 5th Age (which I was hoping would explain the over-arching Greekpunk culture and feel of the whole world, like post Alexander Aegean/Asia Minor). The old weapon and armor makers.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowWhat have you said about the Maeren? I can imagine flotillas of barges or something like that (floating towns) fitting into your setting. The name is a bit too close to mere for my taste, and is a bit too close to many of your other words (thuerma, phaen spring to mind). You should perhaps try to cultivate culturally different word groups.  

well not much, if any, besides a doodle I posted on the first page of the thread. They're basically a shameless mermaid rip off, except savage, slightly unintelligent, and wild.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI don't mind gunpowder. I've had very mixed opinions about them during the making of my own setting. On one hand they are cool, and don't require that tedious, constant, action-stopping reloading you see in other weapons. On the other hand, a gun is essentially death incarnate in the hands of any person. Anyone can put a gun to the back of somebody's head and he is as good as dead already, while a sword to the throat doesn't seem so much of a death sentence.

The gunpowder, which would be called pyronite, would be these oil-like globules that rise from the depths of the Pyron Ocean and float on the surface. After being chemically refined, the resulted ooze would be like liquid gunpowder. That being said, there would be no guns. The only true firearms would be crude, single-use hand-cannons, as pyronite is slightly corrosive and eats away metal as well as fuses moving parts together. There would be ceramic hand-bombs, like grenades. Wealthy cities could also have massive bronze bombards that are big enough to resist the corrosion for some time.  

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowWhat do you mean by Da Vinci-esque machines for transport? I know he made a lot of wondrous vehicles and such, but which did you think on using? Strange flying machines? His tank-like machines?

like what Ghostman mentioned, basically machines that amplify available sources of power. Crude air-balloons, crude steam-engines, and other things. These contraptions would be the expertise of Tezzeret, as I want it to have a pseudo Renaissance/mad scientist vibe. Inspired by the coolest and most underrated DnD magic item, The Apparatus of Kwalish (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx20070612_tacticstips_items3.jpg)

Ok, I just had a great idea for the desert city of Illix.

The city would be ruled by a cabal of sorcerer-priests that follow a religion based upon shadows and light. They believe that Arga is made of two overlapping worlds: the Light and the Shadow (those names are totally tentative. And totally lame) The two worlds are codependent upon each other, but it is from the shadows that they draw their power.

(This part is really sweet and I'm shamelessly commending myself on it) They harness their shadow-magics through silhouettes, which are made through either hand-shadows or metal runes and glyphs (I think the hand-shadows are cooler, but somewhat limited in scope) placed in front of some kind of light source - fire, "light crystals", the sun, etc.

From the silhouettes and shadows they in turn create, all manner of effects could happen - summoning malevolent shades, using the shadows as blades or armor, creating portals within the darkness.

These sorcerer-priests would be the epitome of chiaroscuro.

@CC This kinda invades into the area of the Athemar (Athemancers) a bit, but I think it's nothing that can't be quickly solved.

Do I spy some ASoIaF influence? :)

Magical hand-shadows is a very good idea though. Looking forward to see how far you can take this.

About the religion: is it something only the ruling sorcerer-priests practice (as an exclusive cult) or is it followed by common citizens too?

Quote from: GhostmanDo I spy some ASoIaF influence? :)

Magical hand-shadows is a very good idea though. Looking forward to see how far you can take this.

About the religion: is it something only the ruling sorcerer-priests practice (as an exclusive cult) or is it followed by common citizens too?

haha yes. Actually, I had the warlocks of Qarth more in mind when I was designed Illix, but it obviously changed.

and yeah, I think the hand-shadow magic would be really cool to implement in both game terms and meta-game terms.

and it will most likely be a cult, based more on ideas than an actual deity.

I think the Shadow-priests and the Athemancers could easily coexist and I now like them both equally :D would love to see more on that. Also, chiaroscuro is a sweet word/name even if you didn't clarify what it was for. Very Mediterraneanish with a touch of mysticism.
So now you have Salsurel seers, Phaen-born, and Athemancers (somewhere). I would consider rebuilding Thuerma. Notice that all these are very specific in what they do and focus on a specific force, while thuerma just does stuff. It's the odd one out right now.  

haha, yeah chiaroscuro is an Italian term for light-dark contrast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiaroscuro\

any suggestions for Thuerma development?

Hmm, the others control the forces of shadow/light and Nothing respectively, so you should probably give the Thuerma-casters some kind of force to control as well.
Maybe they could deal in cause & effect? Paradoxes? Or some kind of homeopathy metallurgy where they repeatedly "dilute" a base metal with a rare alloy, leaving it light while remembering the strength of the former material (like water remembers the symptoms caused by things diluted in it, as in homeopathy).

I've been thinking over what Thuerma could and can be, but for some reason, the Dura-Machine conflict keeps coming back. It really worked in the first incarnation of Arga, but now it feels somewhat forced. It's even hard for me to believe that the decimated Dura can contain this massive machine army that can't seem to find it's way out of caves.

Maybe the Dura didn't make the Machines, but only woke them up. They could be guardians from an early Age that have gone mad in their Ages of solitude. Depending on how long and how central this conflict is to the Dura, maybe their magic could deal with metal, but in the sense of being able to change and shape it, not unlike X-Men's Magneto. I think there could be lots of other uses outside of fighting machines for this kind of magic. But that all still feels a bit forced and Dwarf-cliched. What could be something that would make sense but doesn't overtly scream Dwarf?

Also, a thought, maybe the Dura are totally immune to magic, but cannot control it either? Like they exist outside of it all. Or, I could tweak the back story and say that they were forged from earth and clay and use magic pertaining to that. I know that it cliched, but I mentioned earlier, and still like, the visual of theses ancient, venerable Duran monks that serenely become one with the earth. (Like the picture you had for BV's
Arborrealis, but only happier-looking.)

Also also, had a thought about an extremely subtle magic that the Vorr harness through their Bells.

wow that was a lot of rambling. phew.

The awoken machine gods has some "Elder Gods frozen in ice for millenia" over it. I like it ^^
And having dwarves be complete outsiders in a very literal sense could be cool. Although in my mind that idea quickly evolves to the point where it's stepping on the toes of the Athemancers. If magic bends around them, then maybe other things do that as well; sight, gravity, rules of nature. They are embodiments of Cancellation. Maybe they risk losing themselves, and instead become one with the world as they cease to be themselves.  
Otherwise you could go for a more druidic influence, but that leads to the cliché of machines vs nature as far as their underground battle goes.
Or they could make simulacra out of clay (like voodoo dolls) and use them to manipulate the real world through similarity. (create a door out of clay then break it down, bend a sword by bending a sword-shaped clay figure, rip the arm of a man, remove supporting pillars; there'd of course have to be limitations on this).
Voodoo dwarves can hardly be a cliché :p

Maybe the Dura were themselves another kind of constructs, made to be the caretakers of the Machines, but neglected this duty and allowed them to degenerate? Perhaps they discovered some way to make themselves less golem-like, becoming more "natural" and free-willed creatures but at the unforeseen cost of failing their duty?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowAlthough in my mind that idea quickly evolves to the point where it's stepping on the toes of the Athemancers.

well, kinda. I'm thinking the Athemancers won't actually have magical powers as well, but have all of their abilities come from the strength of their belief that they really don't exist. Like they answered the question "To be, or not to be." with "Not to be." I'll post more later, but I have errands at the moment.

Here's a thought: earlier I did a quick write up of the Ages of Arga - [spoiler=Ages of Arga]First Age: The Primordial Age of the creator gods. Arga and it's mortal inhabitants were made during this Age, which lasted an eternity. Little, if nothing, is known of this age.

Second Age: The Age of the Half-Gods. After the creator gods left the mortal realms, their half-mortal, half-divine children ruled great kingdoms of unrivaled power, grace, and knowledge. Very few things are left from the Second Age: artifacts from this period are unparalleled in their power and rarity. The ruler of Voy Vasa - the Half-God King Tyrua - is the last of the god's offspring.

Third Age: The Age of Artifice. Even though the half-gods were part divine, they were also part mortal, and so after untold years, all but Tyrua perished, leaving their lands to the mortals. In this time, the knowledge of the divine cosmos was still known, and incredible feats in magic and artifice were forged. Remnants of the Third Age are rare, but so much as those from the Second. Most artifacts and items from this Age are of non-violent design.

Fourth Age: The Age of Ashes. As the Third Age turned to the Fourth, a great civil war amongst mortals took place. Most believe that the wars were fought over remnants of divine knowledge that had been fading away since the very First Age. Very few things are left from this Age, due to it's violent nature, as most things created during this time were subsequently destroyed in the never-ending wars. Remnants of the Fourth Age, unlike the Third, frequently were designed for war and conflict. The greatest weapons known to Arga were forged during this time.

Fifth Age: The Age of Kings. After the wars of the Fourth Age could no longer sustain themselves and nearly all the knowledge of the cosmos lost or destroyed, mortals once again built empires, but this time of brick and stone rather than aether and magic. These mortal empires lasted for thousands of years, until strange circumstances brought them low. Many ruins and items remain from this Age, some of worth, others not.

Sixth Age: The current, unnamed Age. After the fall of the Fifth Age empires, the untamed lands became wild and savage as mortal-kind flocked to the few remaining cities that offered refuge. But now is also a time of exploration, rediscovery, and adventure. Ruins are delved, old knowledge recovered, and ancient magics unearthed.[/spoiler] - which mentioned the that the Fourth Age was one of massive civil strife and war. What if the Machines were a global thing? Long ruined fortresses and buried weapons caches from the Fourth Age full of sleeping war golems and really nice weapons. They could make really good dungeons and revolve around quests to retrieve items.

There could be scattered treasure troves like that all across the world, yeah, then you'd get over that annoying "how do the monsters survive in the dungeon" issue :)
And have the dwarves be master "abjurers" could be pretty cool. They can isolate things and themselves from decay and other forces. Maybe they know the secrets of immortality.
I might be stealing that voodoo idea for myself then.

[ic=Voy Vasa, the City of Shadow and Gold]
Nicknames: The Shimmering City, the City of a Thousand Spires
Resources: Gold, salt, slaves.
Population:50,000
Leader: Tyrua, the Half-God King

Deep in the sweltering south, far beyond the young cities of Prothean Bay, past the jungle-covered Isles of Last and beyond ship-eating Shattered Coast sits the most ancient and mysterious cities of Arga - Voy Vasa, the City of Shadow and Gold. Perched upon a thin crescent of verdant land that sits between the Singing Sea and the dusty heat of the Vast, the city has existed longer than anyone could care to guess. Many sages say it was founded eons ago in the Second Age by Tyrua, one of the many half-god children begotten of the First Age, but those are merely suppositions.

Sailors claim the port-side approach to Voy Vasa is one of the most magnificent sights to behold. The shining, golden, conical peaks of a thousand spiraled minarets top the city like a crown of polished sun, visible from half a days sail away. The city palace, dwarfing even the tallest spire, is said to be visible from as far away as the city of Chatha, it's gilded form shining like a sun.

Supporting the gleaming spires and towers is a city, both crude and beautiful, that gives away its great age. Dusty stones and mud brick construction show the age of the city with lines that aren't quite straight, angles not quite exact, and stonework not quite even. The decorations of the city are primitive yet beautiful as well - walls adorned with sea shells, floral and geometric carvings, and rough, handwoven rugs and tapestries of white linen and gold thread. Aside from the spires, the city sits low and sprawls along the coast in a long, crescent shape. From atop a spire, the looks like a sea of rippling white awnings dotted by isles of gold, rising about the waves.  

One building, however, truly dominates the skyline of the ancient city. The palace of Tyrua, the Half-God King of Voy Vasa, rises from the heart of the city, an indisputable symbol of power and divinity. A great ascending spiral, it is complete sheathed in gold. From the Million Steps to the Hall of Infinite Pillars, ever inch of the palace is gilded and polished to a perfect sheen. An entire army of slave-priest is devoted solely to polishing and cleaning the palace, colloquially known as Malvasa.  
[/ic]

I like it. Very exotic. I especially enjoyed the way they decorated things both with primitive things like seashells and still modern things like gold. Seems like a very mysterious place.
You mention the palace twice, although the first time you don't go into much detail. Perhaps you should move those two references to the same paragraph?

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI like it. Very exotic. I especially enjoyed the way they decorated things both with primitive things like seashells and still modern things like gold. Seems like a very mysterious place.
You mention the palace twice, although the first time you don't go into much detail. Perhaps you should move those two references to the same paragraph?

haha, yeah, I had a window of about 20 minutes to write this that was shortened to 10 when my dog decided to run away and go on a little adventure in the swamp. wee. anyhoo, it still needs some work and stuff thrown in, but thank ya kindly.

 also, on a very random note, I think Facebook suggested you to be my friend: Facebook = Skynet.

hey hey all. Im going to be moving again soon and will have slightly better access to the World Wide Web, so hopefully Arga will be back in action. needless to say there has been some nice inspiration down in the tropics and once I have some free time ill start moving stuff from notebooks to the web. hopefully ill have more time to keep up with the rest of the posts as well.

We certainly look forward to having back around on a regular basis.

Sweet! Will be good to have Arga back on tracks.

Excellent, this is a great setting.  Will be following closely.

[ic=The Languages of Arga] Being a world of various peoples and innumerable climes, the tongues and languages of its people have developed, been lost, been recreated and invented anew throughout the ages. Even in the current Age, no scholar is sure just how many dialects and tongues exist across Arga. However, amongst the peoples of the land, several languages have arisen and are recognized across the mountains and seas.

Vorrese - The tongue of the beastial Vorr. While true fluency is impossible for all the other races (the Vorr language utilizes roars, grunts, and howls that are impossible to make with non-Vorr vocal chords.) it is still a fairly well ranged languaged, ironically favored by poets and musicians for its flexible and descrpitive nature. The most peculiar aspect of Vorrese is the lack of almost all nouns, only the abstract ideas of person, place, and thing. So, instead of calling a mountain a mountain, it is called sharp-stoney-giant-thing. A moon is called something along the lines of pale-yellow-nightly-thing. So while there is no single word for anything, Vorrese is full of advectives and adverbs, allowing the full sweep of the imagination to run.  And while it is not the most pleasant language to hear (with its abundance of growls and howls), its script is beautiful and a favorite of wordsmiths Arga around. [/ic]

ok i know its not much, but there is a soccer game on, and I havent had a beer in like 2 weeks. also, sorry the grammar is prob terible ,no english spell check on panamanian computers.

Quote from: Leetz[ic=The Languages of Arga] Being a world of various peoples and innumerable climes, the tongues and languages of its people have developed, been lost, been recreated and invented anew throughout the ages. Even in the current Age, no scholar is sure just how many dialects and tongues exist across Arga. However, amongst the peoples of the land, several languages have arisen and are recognized across the mountains and seas.

Vorrese - The tongue of the beastial Vorr. While true fluency is impossible for all the other races (the Vorr language utilizes roars, grunts, and howls that are impossible to make with non-Vorr vocal chords.) it is still a fairly well ranged languaged, ironically favored by poets and musicians for its flexible and descrpitive nature. The most peculiar aspect of Vorrese is the lack of almost all nouns, only the abstract ideas of person, place, and thing. So, instead of calling a mountain a mountain, it is called sharp-stoney-giant-thing. A moon is called something along the lines of pale-yellow-nightly-thing. So while there is no single word for anything, Vorrese is full of advectives and adverbs, allowing the full sweep of the imagination to run.  And while it is not the most pleasant language to hear (with its abundance of growls and howls), its script is beautiful and a favorite of wordsmiths Arga around. [/ic]

ok i know its not much, but there is a soccer game on, and I havent had a beer in like 2 weeks. also, sorry the grammar is prob terible ,no english spell check on panamanian computers.

Happy to hear from you.  
I love the descrtiptions of the languages.

have an idea for the city of Otha (far east, a bit south.) admittedly inspired by a Jorge Luis Borges story.

the entire city would revolve around chance, luck, and randomness. Maybe there is a tangible god or goddess they worship, or perhaps they worship the idea of Chance itself. Every X days, there is a great Lottery, where everyone partakes by purchasing various tokens from vendors - tokens could be painted bone fragments, wooden idols, pieces of cloth: anything really. Then the temple/priests/head honchos draw some of these from a great bin (not all tokens are chosen in every lottery, as that's not very random) and each item is matched with a certain reversal of fate, good or bad. Big things can happen - the rich can be made poor, the living executed, etc. Or little things can happen, a free meal, a tattoo, etc.  

than I thought of having a counter-culture that believes all the chance and randomness of the world is in fact preordained and predictable if only the Great Formula can be found. thinking of calling this group the Dissident Root.

thoughts? questions? burritos?

I really like the possible consequences of this lottery; how major changes can suddenly take place. I'm guessing that the place will be a theocracy of sorts since the city seems to be centered around worship of chance; if positions of governmental power were in the lottery it would probably quickly destabilize the city.
Otherwise quite cool.
And yes, you can have a burrito.

Arga map MkII in the works...

Isn't that more like the 3rd? But mark II of this incarnation of the setting, I'll agree.
Anyway, looking forward to it as your maps are always insanely awesome-looking. Happy mapping.

ok it should be coming soon. I promise. maybe.

I haven't had the chance to sit down with Arga and really delve, but just about everything I've been seeing so for sounds like it is constructed of pure awesome.

I would like to take a closer look at it.  Is there someplace you would suggest I start--either for my sake or for some piece or project you want feedback on?

.
(//../../e107_files/public/1280724587_959_FT75313_arga_language_map_1_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1280724587_959_FT75313_arga_language_map_1.jpg)


aww hell yeah! it finally uploaded!

anyhow, this is a map representing the areas that the 9 modern languages of Arga are spoken (and to a lesser extent, a general map of culture areas) Also, I mentioned a new map earlier, and this is it, well the terrain at least. the basic map was kept the same, maybe some more islands added in. but the geographical map is much larger (Pixels) than the last one, so I fit a lot more stuff on it and rearranged things that needed to be moved. that will hopefully be up soon.

and @ Seraphine, there is an older thread of Arga, but its very outdated. as of now, all there are are post in this thread, they're the ones in the IC boxes. hopefully I can get my brain together and start a real thread.

.

Quote from: Leetzthe alien sorcerer's tongue only known as the Whisper

It's curious that such a language would have a large number of native speakers, as the map appears to indicate. Hope you'll get around to posting more details about this one soon.

Very interested to find out what Song-Cant is.

Ah, I love quirky languages like Iban-Jut where it is not only the grammar and words etc. which makes it differ from other languages but also its use and its, well, quirks (e.g. it has elaborate curses and is useful for romancing).

[ic=The Modern Languages of Arga]"I speak Iban-Jut to my sailors, Prothean to merchants, Perkathian to women, and Salt-Tongue to my enemies."
-Captain Ilun Tyrillic or Ib

The modern languages and tongues of Arga are as diverse and unique as its peoples. From guttural, bestial Vorrese, to the vulgarly romantic Iban-Jut, languages both unify and divide.  
Prothean: Arguably the most common and widespread of the modern tongues, Prothean originated, as can be expected, in the cities surrounding Prothean Bay. A descendant of old Pellan only in its grammatical structure, Prothean uses many words from other tongues, primarily Perkathian and Iban-Jut. In fact, Prothean varies so much from place to place, some dialects sound like completely different tongues.

While not the most beautiful language or the easiest to understand, the flexible and adaptive nature of Prothean has made it the mother-tongue in many cities across central Arga and can be heard in every city, from the steaming temples of Penzanda to the icy iron walls of Thraes.

Perkathian: Subtle, nuanced, and complex, the language of the cities of the Sea of Perkath is not unlike those who speak it. The linguists of Toma claim that Perkathian can be traced all the way back to the tongues of the eldritch Third Age. With a fanciful, flowing script, it is as beautiful to read as it is to speak and listen. The language of poets, lovers, and wordsmiths, Perkathian has only been supplanted by Prothean as the common tongue across Arga. In fact, many words in Prothean come directly from Perkathian, although their nuance and subtly are often lost in translation.

Iban-Jut: The tongue of pirates, corsairs, and romantics, Iban-Jut is a language of contrasts. It alone has more curses and vulgarities than all the other tongues combined, but also has eleven words for "sunrise", thirteen for "sunset", and no less than twenty-two words for "woman". A descriptive and fiery language, Iban-Jut is the sophisticated older brother of the crass and simple Salt-Tongue. Speaking Iban-Jut takes energy in itself, as hand motions, shouts, and the movement of the whole body are integral in its use. While rarely written (it is the pirate's tongue), its script is frantic and sharp. Its multitudes of vulgarities are wider spread than the language is, and Iban-Jut curses can be heard in taverns and ports across Arga.

Vorrese: Vorrese, the tongue of the Vorr, is a rare and difficult language. True fluency is impossible for non-Vorr, as only Vorr vocal chords are capable of creating the range of growls, roars, and howls that encompass the language. However, a basic working knowledge of Vorrese is not overly difficult, and those of northern climes, especially Athas and Thraes, often know a smattering of words and phrases. There is no Vorr script.

Whisper: A strange and unique language, Whisper, as it is commonly called (it is named Sis-Sa-Mo in it's own tongue) was developed by the slaves of a dark, almost forgotten Fourth Age empire. A quiet and hushed tongue (hence the name), Whisper was developed over generations amongst the empire's slaves in order for them communicate with each other without rousing the anger and wrath of their cruel masters.

To those not fluent, Whisper sounds just like that: whispers, hisses, and mumbles. Outside of its native area, Whisper is popular amongst thieves and burglars for obvious reasons.

Song-Cant: Originating from exotic lands far to the south, Song-Cant is a language only in the loosest definition. While natural vocal chords are more than capable of communicating even complex ideas and thoughts, true fluency and expressiveness is obtained only with some kind of musical instrument (preferably a woodwind or string). Sages claim that the language originated in an ancient realm where music was so intrinsically tied to both magic and culture, that to express oneself without music was most uncouth and barbaric.

While today its speakers are not nearly as zealous and stringent in their use of instruments, to hear Song-Cant "spoken" in its full musical range is both a beautiful and rousing experience.  

Norsund: Harsh and strong like the people it is named after, Norsund is a northern tongue rarely spoken south of Thraes and the Sea of Gnashing Teeth. With no script or real use in the "civilized" realms, only bookish scholars and inhabitants of the north bother with learning this brutish language.

Salt-Tongue: An ugly amalgamation of Prothean, Perkathian, Iban-Jut, and words from every language and then some, Salt-Tongue is a bastard tongue preferred by the sea tribes, non-Iban pirates, and coastal barbarians across central Arga. It has even found its way into seedy ports and fringe bars as a lingua franca amongst the seedy and fringe. Useful but ugly.

Durish: Easily the oldest spoken language on Arga, Durish, the tongue of the Dura, has been spoken nearly unchanged since the Third Age. As is wont of the Dura, Durish is kept somewhat secret and hidden, with only the most learned scholars and trusted friends of the Dura being truly fluent. Its script is an extremely complex system of runes and lines which is nearly impossible to completely learn.
[/ic]

[ic=The Anthos, the Wild Mortals]
Nicknames: Mankind, Manlings
Diet: Meat, fish, vegetables, grains
Homelands: The Lost Lands
Gods: Many

The Anthos
The Anthos are a people of contradictions and contrasts. They are short-lived, short-sighted, and short-tempered, but they have founded some of the greatest empires that have ever marked the face of Arga. Their cities are unsurpassed in their size and squalor, but stand as pinnacles of culture and knowledge. The Dura have a name in their tongue for the Anthos, which roughly translates into "Those of the Cursed Blessing."

Unlike the other mortal races who have retreated and safeguarded their ancestral homelands, the Anthos have a penchant for travel and an inborn wanderlust. Ever since the first ships of Manlings arrived from the distant shores of the Lost Lands on the eve of the Second Age, they have spread across Arga, forging kingdoms and cities through toil and persistence. It is said that all Anthos once looked the same - tall and strong, fair of skin and dark of hair. But now, there is little resemblance amongst them. Those from the cold reaches of the city of Thraes are strong and stout, with wind-weathered skin, eyes like pitch, and pale hair. Those of Ib are sinuous, dark, and wiry while those from the Voy Vasa sport smooth bronze skin and eyes of purple or yellow. From city to city, and region to region, the physical appearance of the Anthos changes. Some radical scholars have surmised that chaos-stuff and entropy are intrinsically tied to the Anthos, explaining their startling physical differences and general racial aptitudes.


Anthos society varies as much as their appearance. The free-cities of Tezzeret, Argaza, and Mylas, the militant fortress of Rigus, and the ebon tower-city of Illix are just a few examples. In fact, the Anthos place their loyalties to their city or kingdom far before that of their race. Other mortal races, such as the Vorr, Maeren, and Dura, sometimes see the Anthos race as an empty, even soulless people who have no connection with their blood-kin. Another peculiar mystery that surrounds the Anthos are their unknown origins. Every other mortal race, whether true or not, claims a creator-god as their maker and benefactor. Mankind, on the other hand, knows nothing of its creation or creator. The gods, religions, and cults of the Anthos have risen and fallen along side its empires. And just like their skin, the gods of mankind vary from land to land.

History
Upon arks of iron, they slowly arrived,
Sailing the warmth of the dead dying light,
Banners of red and black and white so dyed,
The end of our time arrayed before our eyes.

-Excerpt from the Epic of Aela, the Legend of Bast-Thoth

Only the oldest and dustiest texts speak of the arrival of the Anthos at the sunset of the Second Age. The Epic of Aela, the great history-poem of the lost race of the same name, describes the Anthos riding the rays of a sunset upon great ships of iron at the end of the Second Era, arriving from a place only known as the Lost Lands. Many have surmounted that the Lost Lands may not even exist on the surface of Arga, and that the Anthos came from a forgotten world flung far across the cold Void.

But regardless of where or what mankind come from, their mark upon Arga has been indelible. What ever unity the Anthos had during their long voyage was lost upon arrival, and they soon split up into countless tribes, cities, kingdoms, and empires. Some fled into the wilds, never to see the light of civilization again. Other congregated in small towns, content to live simple, bucolic lives. And still others united to create great cities and empires the which have yet to be seen again.

Many of the greatest empire were built upon the ruins of the Aela, a forgotten race thought to be the hand-servants of the Second Age Half-Gods. While it is doubtful that the Anthos destroyed the superior Aela in prolonged warfare, no true cause has ever been discovered. The most learned sages surmise that mankind brought with it a great disease that wrecked havoc upon the Aela, but that is only a guess.

And through the ages the Anthos have risen and fallen, ever at the forefront. They survived the carnage of the bloody Fourth Age and the treachery of the Fifth Age. While many feel that the current Sixth Age represents the final stage of Arga's life, many more feel that it is time for the Anthos to once again reclaim knowledge long lost and power deeply hidden.
[/ic]

still WIP. critiques, errors, suggestions? too dark/light? readable? too much stuff, not enough? etc..?
(//../../e107_files/public/1281798367_959_FT75313_arga_mk2_.jpg) (//../../e107_files/public/1281798367_959_FT75313_arga_mk2.jpg)

* Like the style of the mountains :)
* Ditto w/ the wet-stained paper background.
* The scalebar would look better (and be slightly more informative) if divided to smaller units, perhaps 20 mila or so, with distinct fill colors.
* Slap a nice border around the map for a finishing touch.

Do you use photoshop or gimp (if photoshop can I get those mountain brushes heh)? Also is it bad that I saw Prothean and thought of mass effect?

Anyhow awesome job on the maps :)

i actually just use Paint.NET, but the mountains I did by hand and scanned in. and never played Mass Effect, so not sure on that one.

Quote from: Leetzi actually just use Paint.NET, but the mountains I did by hand and scanned in. and never played Mass Effect, so not sure on that one.

Could I have permission to use those mountains for my own (even better would be the scan file you used)?

I like the map.  The stains look good.  They give it a nice, antique feel.  The mountains look very similar to the mountains in my own map, so, needless to say, I like them.  The trade routes are useful. I agree with Ghostman that the scale bar would do well to be broken into smaller increments, but I don't think it needs to involve different colors.  Just adding notches for easy measuring would be sufficient.

The parchment look is very good. The smudge covering the sea of ghosts seems a bit to vast perhaps and the uppermost smudge seems to have been tinged blue which I think you should change.
The city/sights markers fit surprisingly well with the general look of the map, considering that the map is very old-school and "realistic" while the markers are more artificial, if you will.
Some other related compliments:
Some cool names, especially the seas (Churning Sea, Sea of Gnashing Teeth, Gulf of Sighs are favorites). Also, I like the vast amount of seas you have. Adds to the scale of the world, making it seem vaster.
As a final note, the aesthetics of the continents and landmasses by themselves is impressive, even without all the "make-up" provided by the style of the map. They are kind of neat with their varied, jagged, irregular shapes.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowAs a final note, the aesthetics of the continents and landmasses by themselves is impressive, even without all the "make-up" provided by the style of the map. They are kind of neat with their varied, jagged, irregular shapes.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that he got his inspiration from the Greek coastline which is also very jagged and irregular with countless little islands.

Well, he has stated that he is very inspired by Greek myth and culture, I don't know if it extends to the shape of continents as well although it does make it easier to emulate a culture if you emulate the land it takes place in.
But this map does seem to beat Greece at least in scale.
Some of the cities are new creations, right? I don't recognize Harx for example, which also seems to be a city a bit out of the way.

well, I would say that Arga is more Greek influenced in its aesthetics than anything. it's still classic fantasy (albeit with its quirks) at its core.

also, I think it's fun and interesting to focus on the "barbaric" aspects of ancient Greece and Rome. For the most part (I'm generalizing here, so be nice) Greece and Rome have a nice, squeaky-clean reputation as these pinnacles of civilization and culture, were in fact they did some pretty crazy things on a normal basis - animal sacrifices, slavery, orgies, strange cults and rites, etc. etc. To me, those are the interesting parts.

Yeah, it's true that Antiquity could do with a more rough interpretation. Also, craziness and quirks is often what makes a setting exceptional so just pile it on!

alrighty, my next big obstacle is how far punk I should go with Arga. Since it's very first inception (like, seriously, 5 years ago) I've had an oil-like substance called pyronite (it originally was pyrite, but that's actually a real thing - fools gold) that would be Arga's version of a fossil fuel.

the city of Poxos and, obviously, the Pyron Ocean were made with pyronite in mind. Pyronite, or as it's colloquially know, sludge, floats up from the bottom of the Pyron Ocean in small, semi-solid globules about 1-3 feet in diameter. Big, ugly, dirty "tankers" would ply the Ocean, picking up the globules and bringing them to the smog-chocked port of Poxos to be refined by the ________ Guild.

Pyronite in it's various forms could fuel things from lamps and stoves to strange engines to some kind of primitive Argan firearm.* Like I've said, pyronite has been with Arga before it was finally called Arga. right behind the Dura, its one of the oldest things that keeps bouncing around me head. I think having a fossil fuel (read: oil) in a setting would be great for so many things: conflict, plot hooks, trade, etc.

*[rant]I have a personal tiff against settings that have 1000s of years of history, but nothing that goes boom. nothing against any of these settings by any means, I just find it very unbelievable, especially in low-magic settings like Arga, that the "common people" never got around to making something like blackpowder. I have a hard time believing that they'd sit around for 1000s of years gawking at magic and doing nothing to better their own situation. [/rant]

>>*[rant]I have a personal tiff against settings that have 1000s of years of history, but nothing that goes boom. nothing against any of these settings by any means, I just find it very unbelievable, especially in low-magic settings like Arga, that the "common people" never got around to making something like blackpowder. I have a hard time believing that they'd sit around for 1000s of years gawking at magic and doing nothing to better their own situation. [/rant]

Well it happened in real world history more or less.

The Chinese invented fireworks... around 1000 I suppose? But although fireworks were sort of used in some limited ways in conflicts they were not used for cannons or gunpowder until the 1400s? (Years are off, but you get the idea).

If Egyptian civilization has been around since around 4000 BC, then it took about 5000 years of civilized world civilization for gunpowder to be more than a novelty.

If you want stuff that goes boom but without messing with gunpowder, get a steam cannon (http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/steamCannon/ArchimedesSteamCannon.html).

Quote from: GhostmanIf you want stuff that goes boom but without messing with gunpowder, get a steam cannon (http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/steamCannon/ArchimedesSteamCannon.html).

oh no, I want stuff that goes boom! I was just looking to see what people thought of the Argan "fossil fuel" pyronite. I just have to make it fit in the setting without making it seem forced. I'm leaning very heavily towards low explosives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_explosive#Low_explosives (//hyperlinkurl))

also, I thought about this some more and my rant may have been a bit hasty. While saltpeter occurs naturally (albeit in special environments), it could be very plausible for settings not to have fossil fuels, as they require millions (thousands? I ain't no rocket scientist man) of years to make. so in a setting only 10,000 years old, it's very plausible oil/coal would not exist at that point, considering that the setting rests on the same laws of chemistry as ours does, but I digress.

quick question: what is a reasonable amount of time to have players spend sailing between locations? between close cities I was thinking days, regions weeks, and across the world, months. reasonable?

Quote from: Leetzquick question: what is a reasonable amount of time to have players spend sailing between locations? between close cities I was thinking days, regions weeks, and across the world, months. reasonable?

That's hard to give a quick answer to.

The thing is, sailing speed varies enormously based on ship type/technology and winds, and also geography. In his book Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World, Lionel Casson gives some estimates to the speed of Greek/Roman age sailing ships on the Mediterranean:
[ic=Page 288]"Combining all the above evidence, it would seem that, under favorable wind conditions, ancient vessels averaged between 4 and 6 knots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28unit%29) over open water, and slightly less while working through islands or along coasts."[/ic]
And also:
[ic=Page 291]"It would seem therefore that ancient vessels averaged from less than 2 to 2½ knots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28unit%29) against the wind."[/ic]

That makes about 170-270 km or 110-170 miles per 24 hours under favorable winds. Sailing against the wind, you cover 90-110 km or 50-70 miles per 24 hours.

Quote from: Ghostman

Quote from: Leetzquick question: what is a reasonable amount of time to have players spend sailing between locations? between close cities I was thinking days, regions weeks, and across the world, months. reasonable?

That's hard to give a quick answer to.

The thing is, sailing speed varies enormously based on ship type/technology and winds, and also geography. In his book Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World, Lionel Casson gives some estimates to the speed of Greek/Roman age sailing ships on the Mediterranean:
[ic=Page 288]"Combining all the above evidence, it would seem that, under favorable wind conditions, ancient vessels averaged between 4 and 6 knots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28unit%29) over open water, and slightly less while working through islands or along coasts."[/ic]
And also:
[ic=Page 291]"It would seem therefore that ancient vessels averaged from less than 2 to 2½ knots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knot_%28unit%29) against the wind."[/ic]

That makes about 170-270 km or 110-170 miles per 24 hours under favorable winds. Sailing against the wind, you cover 90-110 km or 50-70 miles per 24 hours.

Also recall that it took Odysseus 20 years to sail from Troy to Ithaca.  Considering Troy has been figured to be in Turkey, and Ithaca is in Greece, which are adjacent countries, that's a long time.  It would have been faster if he'd walked.  Of course, it WAS a MYTH.  And there WERE a FEW complications :-P

A prime example of why one shouldn't piss off the god of the seas right before sailing home :hammer:

I can't remember, was 1 mila = 1 mile?

EDIT: Ah, found it. 1 mila = 3 miles. So I'll just make some edits in my calculations.

I figure there is between 2400 and 2600 milas from Penzanda to Kharza following the sea lines, which is equal to 7200-7800 miles.
Assuming the slowest speed and the longest distance (50 miles/day and 7800 miles) the journey would take 156 days, which is over 5 months, and in addition to this you should probably add time to stock up and unload cargo in the intermediate cities, and perhaps shore-leave and harboring to take cover from a storm. So roughly it could add up to 6 months if they operate under the worst conditions.
A similar calculation for 170 miles/day and 7800 miles would result in a journey of more or less exactly one and a half months.

Of corse, all this assumes that there's wind, even one blowing to the "wrong" direction. A sailing ship that gets caught in a dead-calm will be helpless, drifting along with what ever sea current there might be (unless anchored in shallow water).

so would a 6 month voyage in a strongly maritime setting across the known world be too much to ask of players?

(this is also considering that they don't find alternative ways of travel, of which there could be plenty: portals and gates, ancient artifacts, sea creatures, "flying machines", etc.)

That sounds like awesome fun to me.  Crazy islands, sea monsters, storms, doldrums, maybe subplots like a murder aboard the ship, a mutiny, a stowaway, a plague (contracted on one of the islands), pirates, exotic ports of call and mini-adventures within them, whacky maritime superstitions and sacrifices - could be endless possibilities.

Yeah, with ports of call a journey across the known world could be really cool.
One of the games I ran was an "expedition into unknown lands" campaign, and that went less well because of the limited interaction with civilization; this, I think, is the only thing you should be afraid of with a Great Voyage campaign. A ship could be a really cool self-contained mini-setting.
Only other problem as I see it is aquatic combat which tends to be annoying :P

Quote from: SteerpikeThat sounds like awesome fun to me.  Crazy islands, sea monsters, storms, doldrums, maybe subplots like a murder aboard the ship, a mutiny, a stowaway, a plague (contracted on one of the islands), pirates, exotic ports of call and mini-adventures within them, whacky maritime superstitions and sacrifices - could be endless possibilities.

sold.

Quote from: Conundrum CrowYeah, with ports of call a journey across the known world could be really cool.
One of the games I ran was an "expedition into unknown lands" campaign, and that went less well because of the limited interaction with civilization; this, I think, is the only thing you should be afraid of with a Great Voyage campaign. A ship could be a really cool self-contained mini-setting.
Only other problem as I see it is aquatic combat which tends to be annoying :P

well, I really doubt I'll be playing an Arga campaign anytime soon, but I'm a lite rules guy, so I don't think it would be a huge problem. plus, there is a lot more civilization than appears on the world map. I've been thinking of making smaller, more intimate maps of regions that are especially important, like the Perkathian cities, the Prothean cities, Ib the Isles of Lust, Salsurel and the Saline Isles, and maybe Dead Pellan and Pellanax.

[ic=An Observation on the Maritime Superstitions of Arga] "At the end of the Fourth Age, the Terrible Times, the land of Arga was scarred and shattered by vile and violent works of magic. Sheer cliffs, jagged mountains, and blasted wastes covered much of a once verdant and rugged land. At the dawn of the Fifth Age, mortalkind turned their tired eyes from the desolate wastes of the earth and looked towards the sea, deep and cold and endless. For the last two Ages, mortalkind, and the Anthos is particular, have been a water-bound peoples, exploring the rolling waves of Arga from their walled ports and fortified harbor-cities.  

Over the centuries that have passed since mortalkind took to the waves, all manner of cultures and peoples have adopted the seas and oceans into their beliefs and superstitions. For example, within the Isles of Lust and the wild city of Ib, it is custom to hang the dried heads of certain fishes from certain lines and ropes upon the ship: the head of the sun-ridged volkh is laced upon the ropes of the foremast to ward off hungry spirits of the Deeps while the head of the bitterfin is hung from lanterns to protect the ship from thick fogs and storms.

Ships that call the Seer's City of Salsurel home will adorn every single plank of wood with a hot iron brand in the shape of the eye, to draw favor from the Nameless Dreamer. Sailors of the Prothean Bay say carrying any money on ones person is terrible luck, and as such all matter of coin and currency is kept within chests upon Prothean vessels. Ships of the Perkathian Sea are never painted white while sailors from Thraes eat every meal with a pinch of powdered iron.

Even stranger are the rites of the barbaric sea peoples. Bodies hung from masts, blood-stained sails, skull adorned ships, and all matter of self-mutilations and piercings form the base of many a terrible bed-time story.

No doubt that there are as many superstitions and beliefs that involve the sea as ships that sail upon it."

-Excerpt from A History of the Seas, by Peltath Hir Pol of Toma
[/ic]

Hmm, I would probably change the name of the Isles of Lust to something else. The mental image is more of some kind of siren-infested area rather than a place inhabited by crazy pirate people. Also, it is a bit "soft" compared to other Argan names.  

Found some really old stuff I wrote about Arga (or at least the setting that would become Arga) and thought I may as well throw it online. here it is. I just copy/pasted this, so the format may be off at points.

[ic=Exotic and Mundane Materials ]
Bonegnaw Worm Tooth - Often fashioned into knives and arrow- and boltheads, the milky white teeth of the Bonegnaw Wurm have the ability to absorb poisons and toxins like a sponge, making this weapon popular amongst assassins and killers. However, once taken out of the Bonegnaw desert itself, they deteriorate very fast from moisture and cooler temperatures, allowing few uses of the tooth before it becomes useless in combat. Most weapons fashioned from a Bonegnaw Wurm tooth are kept in a laquered wooden box filled with desert sand, which slows down the deterioration process.


Saltmould - Made from evaporated seasalt and a slew of other alchemical ingredients, saltmold 'grows' into small, green-grey, scale-like chips that are fashioned into armor akin to chain- or scalemail. Although not as strong as normal metals, saltmold is far more resistant to the acrid sea mists and is also able to self-repair chips and dents from absorbing salt in the sea mists or water. Saltmold armor is favored by sailors, fishermen, and pirates for both its usefulness in aquatic settings and because of its light weight and easy maintenence.


Bonecast - Bonecast is a combination of powdered bone, insect carapace, and minerals mixed with chouka tree resin that can be poured into a cast or shaped by hand into a wide range of things from armor to book covers. Naturally it is a pale amber color and has a slight shine to it. Bonecast can be dyed to make it any color. Light and fairly inexpensive, bonecast is commonly used as armor for local militia and town guards and is often dyed to match the local colors.


Ilverite - A feather-light and incredibly strong metal, ilverite has an oily, reddish color and is found only in the deepest places of the Wyrld. Ilverite is used in the making of rings, bracelets, necklaces, shields, armor, and occasionally weapons. Ilverite is expensive and rare in all lands, but the Dura may value the metal more than any other people. In Duran folklore, ilverite is said to be the hardened blood of the last known Drake of the North, Ilverus, who was destroyed by the Duran prophets Umbernar and Adrusa in an epic battle upon their arrival in the north. The crown of the Duran priest-king Bhernusmarkh is made of pure Ilverite and is said to be embued with vestiges of ancient Ilverus's power.


Hog-Iron - Cheap, low-quality, and plentiful, hog-iron may be the most widely used material in all Arga. From shoddy knives to pot-marked armor, hog-iron is used by armies and bandits alike. Hog-iron is also very easy to melt down and repour or reforge into new, less worn items.


Firis - Firis is a strange and exotic material that is only found deep within the Smoldering Realms. It is a jet black metal that has the ability to burn indefinately. Because of its ability to handle intense heat, firis is extremely difficult to work with as it requies extreme tempuratures only found in the heart of the Smoldering Realms to work with. While the practical uses of firis are obvious: torches, fuel, etc., weapons are sometimes forged of the metal that can retain both flame and edge.


Cured Wood - It is what it is: wood that has been cured, treated, and laquered to a level where it is usable and dependable in combat. Used mostly for armor, shields, or blunt weapons such as maces or hammers, cured wood is valued for its light weight, ability to float, and its beautiful appearance. Cured wood armor is commonly used for ceremonial purposes.


Vetch Scale - In addition to being one of the mosly widely eaten animals in Arga, the scales of the lumbering vetch have provided farmers and warriors alike with dependable armor for untold generations. The dull-yellow, hand-sized scales of the vetch make suprisingly sturdy armor that is cheap, of moderate weight, and easily repairable. Vetch scales are also often carved by farmers and other country folks into an assortment of other items such as rings, necklaces, cameos, shoe bottoms, plates, eating utensils, combs, buttons, and sometimes even spear- and arrowheads.


Pyronite - Pyronite is a thick, viscus blackish-red liquid found floating in nodules across the Pyron Ocean. It is most likely volcanic waste that floats to the to surface from deep beneath the waters. Up until the last few decades pyronite was often regarded as poisonous waste, but with alchemists now discovering its natural ability to, once refined, burn long and hot, the eastern edge of the Pyron Ocean is now crawling with pyronite tankers, and refineries dot the coasts near Poxos and Iera, turning the once backwater ports into industrial and mercantile power players. Pyronite is used in everything from lamps and stoves. There are even rumors that the ingenious tinkeres of Tezeret have found a use for pyronite in the manufacture of terrible weapons that spew fire and steel.  [/ic]

 [ic=The Cosmology of Arga]
-The Void is the name given to the infinate expanse of space upon which the known cosmos rest.


The Solar System of Arga

Soel
    -Soel is the Great Lantern forged long ago by the First Age gods to warm and light the paths of the inhabitants of Arga. Soel is still guarded by Kyritos, the Winged-Hound.

    Nez- The origins or purpose of Nez are unknown. Nez is a small black orb that orbits     around Soel and is thought very ill of.

Teir
    -Teir is a place that is formed by the thoughts and dreams of mortals. If not for the purple beacon of light it forms in the night sky, many would believe Teir to be a place of story, as no one has ever returned from Teir the same, if at all. Teir is often looked to for omens and signs of things to come. Teir is the home of all manner of strange spirits and ghosts.


Arga
    -Arga is the place upon where most of the life and history of known existance has taken place. Home to thousands of species both known and hidden, Arga is the soul of the known Void.

    Toth- A moon of Arga, Toth is believed to be the ancient city of some of the First Age gods before they vanished. Toth is said to be covered in one sprawling metropolis. Ancient pillars, crumbling temples, bottomless pits, and fallen towers mark the dead city. Toth is the source of many legends and fables as it is believed that relics and artifacts of the ancient gods still lie on the moon. Toth shines pale white in the night sky.

    Ryl- The blue moon of Ryl is covered in a great ocean and is the smallest moon in the     night sky of Arga. Not much is known of Ryl, as portals and gates to the moon are rare.
    Ryl shines milkly blue in the night sky.

    Vojir- The moon of Vojir is a strange place of forgotten magics and powerful secrets.    Composed of strange red rock, the entire surface of Vojir is covered in runes and glyphs in a language unknown to even the most learned scholars and diviners. Many seek to decipher the cryptic text of Vojir in hopes of unlocking paths to power and knowledge unknown for eons. Vojir shines a deep crimson and is by far the largest moon in the night sky.



Clouds of Glasya
    -The Clouds of Glasya are the remains of worlds dead and gone. Composed of ice, stone, and dust, the Clouds of Glasya appear in the night sky as a shimmering band of colors. Believed to be the home of dead heroes and good spirits, the Clouds are seen as a bastion of light in the Void.


The Maw-
    -The Maw is a great maelstrom of malevolent energies and horrible substance. The Maw is  the resting place of evil mortals and the home of strange and sinister beings. The Maw appears as a pulsating orb blacker than the night sky. However, the Maw can be seen only during the coldest nights of winter and the hottest nights of summer.

Arkys
    -Arkys is the ancient home of a lost power who controlled the Void before the First Age gods defeated them. Said to be constructed more than formed, Arkys is a place of horrible power and secrets, knowledge so profane the gods encased the entire orb in a crystal shell.

    Ix- Ix is said to be the watchtower-orb that the gods constructed to keep an eye on Arkys.
    Legends say it is manned by a legion of 12,000 glass soldiers to keep both the     shadows of Arkys in and the curious away.


Other Places
    -In addition to the mapped worlds, there are places mortals have visited that defy     explanation.

    Carac- Carac is a frozen realm of bones and echoes. It is rarely visited because of the     extremely harsh climate. Carac is a world far away across the Void that for unknown     reasons shares several portals with Arga.

    Jinx­- A strange city of all manner of creatures, Jinx is extremely hard to find, although the rewards for finding this fabled city are well worth the search. All manner of powerful and  knowlegable beings make Jinx home and the laws of nature and magic are somewhat more leniant here than in other places. Jinx rests on the hand of an archaic, dead being. It is said that Jinx can only be reached through ancient lost portals, as it exists within an entirely different plane than our own.[/ic]

after a whole weekend, finally figured out GIMP enough to make curved text. this isn't quite done yet (will it ever be?) but I was hoping for some feedback before I finalized it.
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Bent text labels look nice, maybe some of them (eg. 'The Sea of Poxa') have a steeper curvature than would be optimal. Also the labels for towns/locations look pretty similar to the smaller-sized area labels (cf. 'Athas' and 'The Gullet'). If you want to use the same font for them all, perhaps some other technique such as underlining would help differentiate the types of labels a bit?

It also looks like some of the dashed sea-lanes are placed over the text layer(s).

i'm back from the dead. as per usual, the map's not quite done, but it's getting close. actually have a lot of stuff to post once I get around to it.
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[ic=On the Pellan Empire] Founded at the tip of a spear and maintained by the edge of a silent knife, Pellan was the most audacious, and arrogant, of mankind's Fifth Age empires. At it's height, it stretched clear across the eastern lands, from the sheer stone shores of the Iron Sea to the tepid, misty waters of the Saline Isles. It held as many cities in mutual agreement as it did through an heavy hand. In the fragmented and shattered kingdoms of the Sixth Age, every cunning city-state and savage kingdom hopes to claim some of what is left of Dead Pellan.

Throughout the life of the Pellan Empire, two factors dictated it's survival: the emperor his legions. Founded and built by the hands of a line of strong emperors and merciless legions, so too was it brought low by a short but disastrous string of mad leaders and traitorous warlords. While the details are unknown to all but most diligent scholars, the empire was founded by it's namesake, Pella I the Ruthless. A seemingly invincible warrior and of unsurpassed intelligence, Pella I united the disparate tribes, kingdoms, and cities of plain now known as Dead Pellan. All fell before a line of eight Pellas and his iconic legions. Armed in a brazen round-shield and spear and with only a red waist-cloth as apparel, all fell before the gaze of the legions and their dreaded helm-masks: forged of bronze and made in the visage of a scowling, bearded warrior.

Yet, as is the way of things, the Pellan Empire began its sickly descent upon the coronation of Pellan IX the Depraved. By the time of Pellan XII the Cuckold, only the capitol city of Cander was under the direct command of the emperor. The rest of the empire crumbled amongst infighting, rebellion, and defeats at the hands of rising cities and kingdoms. By the time the Sixth Age was declared, naught was left of the empire save the battle-wasted lands known as Dead Pellan. Cander, the once glorious and gluttonous heart of an empire is only a frail shell of its old self. A huddled mess of shanties and make-shift halls sitting in the shadows of a sprawling corpse of a city.

While the empire is long dead, it is not gone. Ruins and relics abound across central Arga. Weapons and arms of Pellan make fetch high prices in the markets of port-cities. Tomes and the secrets they hold still lay in dusty ruins, untouched since the departure of their authors. The wastes of Dead Pellan in particular is a common destination amongst treasure hunters, tomb raiders, and procurers of things rare and dangerous. In fact, Naray has quickly become a bustling port and beachhead for those brave and foolish enough to traverse the blasted lands of once great Pellan. [/ic]

I like the look of your map a lot, the shape of the landmasses looks very fractured and cool. I'm wondering what sort of scale it's supposed to be. Europe-ish? Or smaller?

Quote from: Conundrum CrowI can't remember, was 1 mila = 1 mile?

EDIT: Ah, found it. 1 mila = 3 miles. So I'll just make some edits in my calculations.

I figure there is between 2400 and 2600 milas from Penzanda to Kharza following the sea lines, which is equal to 7200-7800 miles.
Assuming the slowest speed and the longest distance (50 miles/day and 7800 miles) the journey would take 156 days, which is over 5 months, and in addition to this you should probably add time to stock up and unload cargo in the intermediate cities, and perhaps shore-leave and harboring to take cover from a storm. So roughly it could add up to 6 months if they operate under the worst conditions.
A similar calculation for 170 miles/day and 7800 miles would result in a journey of more or less exactly one and a half months.

I guess this means I should finally finish the world map...

So I've thought about combining some of the ideas I had put with the sci-fi setting I've been trying to get up and running with Arga, mainly the low amount of heavy metals idea (or creating unique Argan metals) and the lack of terrestrial animals.

On the first point (low metals), Arga is an old and decaying world, and it stands to be reasoned that most of its' precious metals have been discovered, used, and discarded by the denizens of the previous five Ages. Also, with the tumultuous geographic upheavals of Arga, it also makes sense that a lot of these resources would be either buried at the bottom of the oceans, flung to unknown corners of the world, or buried deep deep beneath the surface. So in the current Sixth Age, most metal in Arga is reused scrap from past Ages, not much is mined raw anymore.

On the second point (minimal, if any, terrestrial animals), Arga would have no cows, no dogs, no horses. In fact, there would be no pack animals or beasts of burden at all. Not only does this keep land travel slow and tiring, but it presents food and labor problems as well, that can be filled in with sweet Arga-esque things. I was thinking about having an Argan version of a goat/sheep, some kinds of neat poultry, and maybe some kind of domesticated animal to replace dogs and cats.

But at the moment, the neatest part about these two points is the way it would affect not only materials, but weapons and armor, which players seem to care about. With scarce metals, swords would be well made and very scarce. Things like spears, crude knives and daggers, bows, javelins, and small axes would be much more prevalent than they are in your average setting (which are inundated with swords. and swords). Armor would also be fun. Between the scarcity in quality metals and the maritime/Greek flavor of the setting, traditional European armor is more or less out of the question. Metal armor in general would be rare and slightly impractical. I've had a list in my head of different kinds of "non-traditional" armors that include a heavier focus on hides and leather, minerals, clay, alchemical compounds, wood, and bones/teeth/claws/etc.

So, in addition the soul and body consuming magics of Phaen, the female-only seers of the Nameless Dreamer, and the void-bound Aethemar, I finally thought a cool magic (and system) for the shadowy sorcerers of Ilix.

Since Ilix is basically chiaroscuro in a physical form (Ilix is called the City of Sun and Shadow) I thought that their magic could be based around silhouettes. Perhaps each sorcerer could have a staff or censer holding a candle or "enchanted light gem" they would in turn use in coordination with varying and complexly constructed tablets that created these strange and eldritch silhouettes.

It may not be the best hot-and-heavy "combat magic" but things like shadow portals, forming a shadow-tunnel through a wall or floor, summoning of shade-beasts, and creation of shadow constructs. (Example: Oh no, it's a bottomless chasm with no bridge and no way across. Oh wait, we just made a shadow-bridge! Ta-da!) I think that could be cool and basically lets players do what ever they want, for the most part. Because it wouldn't be so overtly powerful as Phaen, it would probably have little drawbacks, but possible heavy training and association with shadowy Ilix one way or another.

Any kind of fire-based light source would seem appropriate, because of how flames tend to wave and flicker, thereby casting more dynamic and "living" shadows. Then again, one might prefer a more static source (eg. the sun or moon) for creating something like a shadow-bridge.

Also, here is the latest, and hopefully last, Arga map. I still have to add the names of the lands and oceans as well as make it sexy, but all the cities and trade lanes are up. I went with a color scheme heavy with red, white, and black (which I would like to be Argas general color scheme). I also made the oceans much larger to further drive home the maritime vibe of the setting.
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Are there any limits on what Ilix magic can? Is size the only limiting factor?

I would like there to be, but Phaen already has the side-effects of madness, and both Phaen and the magic of the Aethemar come with physical decay, so I would like to avoid that. Maybe the more the Shadow-fey is used, the greater the chance of some kind of malevolent shadow-being slipping through, maybe possessing the sorcerer?  

Hmmm, maybe just using it allows shadow-beings to slip through? At first it's only the shadow equivalent of pests, but as you use it more and more powerful shadow-beings "home-in" on users and start to come through?

oooh. that's nice. And I feel like a good dose of paranoia would come along with that. Except this creates the problem of what does Ilix do with these rogue shadow-beings that its sorcerers bring over? Imprisonment? appeasement?

They could have some sort of repellent device that randomly banishes the things from the city, scattering them across the world.

hmm, but that creates even more questions, like how does the machine work, where do the shadows end up, and what do the shadows do when they end up somewhere else.

I was thinking about instead of silhouettes magic (which could maybe be part of the magic of Arga forth coming "sea Gypsies") that Ilixian Shadow-fey is all based around the sorcerers own shadow. His shadow makes the bridge, his shadow forms a tunnel or creates a door, his shadow takes the form of some dark creature.

Perhaps the cost would be less than other types of magic, especially Phaen, considering it's less FLAMING FIREBALL OF DOOM and more outside combat magic. Maybe it's just fatiguing.

New map looks interesting. Has a slightly more compressed look than some of the former editions, but I'm pretty sure I only noticed that because I mentally compared it to the others. It does have the effect that many of the continents seem smaller than they used to, especially the southern one, and the map loses a bit of the rugged feature-richness which also added to the greekpunk atmosphere. A couple of interesting new cities, although I suspect you have removed quite a lot as well. Or maybe that's just my memory playing tricks. Wandergate, Lonely Syril, Eastmost Urza and Sea-meet give a wonderful tone of being far, far away across the sea. Sea-meet is perhaps a bit weird name considering it seems to be far removed from anywhere anyone would meet. Also, Karza-in-Mourning is misspelt; i reckon you want to fix that before you finish the map.

Now, on to the shadow-sorcerers. This is just brainstorming for you to use or throw away as you wish.
 Since shadows are created by real objects, you could argue that there is a connection between an object and the shadow it throws. Building upon your silhouette ideas, one could consider a magic where forming a silhouette which throws a shadow similar to a certain object created an eldritch link between the silhouette and the object; a link the sorcerer could then manipulate. They might create a silhouette of a door, then break down the silhouette and see the very real door splinter before them. As opposed to your current idea this would be a magic more about transmutation and control rather than conjuration, where the shadows become a gateway rather than the subject by themselves. I'd argue that this is better in many ways since it keeps the "mysteriousness" of the shadow intact. If the shadow is turned to matter, it will be a thing like so many other things; something you can hold and touch and mold rather than something to fear or wonder about.    
As to the cost and the idea about shadow-beings you could hold that there is a certain taboo amongst the shadow sorcerers of creating silhouettes of living things since those shadows will themselves come to life (a shadow of something that moves will also be moving). Shadowmancing living things is thus a difficult thing requiring much control where the sorcerer risks the shadow tearing free and running loose, taking a part of the sorcerers shadow with them. I imagine shadow sorcerers will cast ragged and pitted shadows, with large holes torn out of them and the oldest of them may not cast any shadows at all. The beasts themselves may not be terribly dangerous, perhaps merely manifesting as half-seen spectres and dreaming nightmares. Or they might be terrible predators which can only be burned out of the world with light the strength of the midday sun. Whether the ragged shadow has any effect on the sorcerer is up to you; maybe it makes sunlight more dangerous in some arcane way?
Hope you can use it.    

on the map, I was thinking that myself too (how it was less rugged), but I was also trying to get more ocean-mass involved, considering. Right now I'm toying with a extremely vertical map (1000x5000), which was at first a bit jarring, but it's quickly growing on me, and it looks damn unique too.

I'll still have to digest your thoughts on Ilix shadow magic, but sounds cool.

The Salsurel-continent seems to be very sparsely populated in the northern end (read: not populated at all). Possibly intentional, but seems like a lot of land that goes unused. The same goes for an entire western landmass; the one you can barely see an edge of on the map.

In this Arga 3.5 are there only city-states or are there nations? Based on the map, I'm guessing Voy Moros and Voy Vasa are under the same government and most of the cities near Ilix would be under their rule as well. Black Naray I reckon belong to the piratocracy of Ib and Dravos, Thousand-bells (cool name), Iron Fel and possibly Thane must be part of the Gorr lands. But those are the only overt alliances I can think of.

I do like this Arga 3.5, even if the map does seem quite sparse (most notably in the Salsurel sea area). Maybe you should insert some windbeaten rocks here and there to break the monotony of the ocean? Or sea monster :p

Another (very small) problem in your quest for great seas might be the natural appearance that the continents were once together. This is quite nicely done, but it gives the appearance of a chain of islands from south to north which inherently shortens the distance between the individual islands in the minds of most viewers. Perhaps it would work to increase the distance between continents and compress the oceans ever so slightly to keep the scale. But you're the map master, I'll leave it to you.  

I think the map looks great as is. It has a very unique feel to it. Just because there are no major population centers doesn't mean the area isn't populated. I've always hated those little picture things that people put in oceans, you know, like ships and monsters and stuff. But that's just my preference.

To be honest, I'm not especially fond of them either TMG... mostly because they are damn ugly. We have a print of an antique map of Iceland at home where every single inch of sea has some kind of sea monstrosity; so many that they have small letters denoting them, probably in reference to some kind of map legend. http://www.helmink.com/Antique_Map_Ortelius_Iceland/

Waif 2. Something found and unclaimed, as an object cast up by the sea.

is that not the coolest definitionever? Sea of Waifs is so happening.

Getting any closer to how your shadowmancers are going to work?