With the toll of the bell, this decade will end and a new one will begin. 10 years is a long, long time so I wanted to ask - where were you 10 years ago?
Fifth Grade.
Ten years ago was about 9-10 months before I discovered this wonderful thing known as roleplay gaming...
Let's see... 10 years ago I was in 7th grade. I was fairly unpopular in Middle School, having grown apart from my elementary school friends. That isn't to say I didn't have friends (I had plenty) but I was never popular, I was always played the role of a remora. My favorite TV show was... I can't even remember. It was such a transition year for me. I know I pined after the most attractive girl at school - Natalie from Texas - though I am sure I wasn't alone in that endeavor.
Quote from: NomadicTen years ago was about 9-10 months before I discovered this wonderful thing known as roleplay gaming...
o_O I wish I discovered RPG's 10 years ago... God I didn't even know about Video Game RPGs (the closest I came was Donkey Kong and Pokemon). Sheesh, I was a Sophomore in High School before Morrowind found its way into my life and another 3 years before I got into D&D (i.e. I was a freshmen in college).
Quote from: Elemental_Elfo_O I wish I discovered RPG's 10 years ago... God I didn't even know about Video Game RPGs (the closest I came was Donkey Kong and Pokemon). Sheesh, I was a Sophomore in High School before Morrowind found its way into my life and another 3 years before I got into D&D (i.e. I was a freshmen in college).
Haha good old pokemon, I remember when that was a fad. Proved a perfect transition for me into magic the gathering, which is incidentally how I met my first DM.
Quote from: NomadicQuote from: Elemental_Elfo_O I wish I discovered RPG's 10 years ago... God I didn't even know about Video Game RPGs (the closest I came was Donkey Kong and Pokemon). Sheesh, I was a Sophomore in High School before Morrowind found its way into my life and another 3 years before I got into D&D (i.e. I was a freshmen in college).
Haha good old pokemon, I remember when that was a fad. Proved a perfect transition for me into magic the gathering, which is incidentally how I met my first DM.
That's really cool! Let's see Pokemon transitioned me into Yu-Gi-Oh, where I met a whole bunch of deadbeats who still ask me to 'buy them a pack, just for old times sake' even though I haven't seen them for years...
Quote from: Elemental_ElfQuote from: NomadicQuote from: Elemental_Elfo_O I wish I discovered RPG's 10 years ago... God I didn't even know about Video Game RPGs (the closest I came was Donkey Kong and Pokemon). Sheesh, I was a Sophomore in High School before Morrowind found its way into my life and another 3 years before I got into D&D (i.e. I was a freshmen in college).
Haha good old pokemon, I remember when that was a fad. Proved a perfect transition for me into magic the gathering, which is incidentally how I met my first DM.
That's really cool! Let's see Pokemon transitioned me into Yu-Gi-Oh, where I met a whole bunch of deadbeats who still ask me to 'buy them a pack, just for old times sake' even though I haven't seen them for years...
Haha, I don't have my cards anymore. I gave them to a friend when I quit, though I still see him regularly. He refuses to play me though due to the fact that I was one of the "tournament grade" players back in highschool and he only played for kicks and never got into it like I did. On a side note I think if I ever get Mare Eternus finished I'm gonna spring it on him. He's a gamer like me and has his fair share of rp experience.
I was in VA. Actually, I'm in VA now, but I don't live here anymore. I had just finished high school. It was one of the only times I bothered to watch the ball drop. I had been doing gaming for a while, already.
I remember playing scrabble with a baby-sitter (my parents went out) on NYE 1999 and missing the millenium coutdown.
I also didn't listen to music at all.
Millenium NYE? God...I was at a party in Boston, and we were party hopping, from manRay to TT's to the Top of the Hub...
Long night. Worse morning.
@Nomadic, I'll concur that playing RPGs with the people you started with is cool on many lvels. Years get peeled back...
I was in 6th grade, probably getting shoved into my locker or something. Or reading a book. I'm pretty sure that was all I did during middle school. Although I might have done homework once a week. Maybe.
Seems like we've got alot of people in here in the same age range heh (20-22)... and a couple old coots :P
Ten years ago, I was in, let's see... 9th grade. I was-- like EE-- pining after cute girls (although not the ones in the more popular cliques), also fairly unpopular, and I wasn't to discover P&P RPGs for another 2-3 years. Pokemon had already introduced me to CCGs and VG RPGs; I was probably still playing Final Fantasy 7 on my Playstation (the one that looked like it could survive anything, not the one that looked like a toy), but I don't think it was until the next year that I discovered M:tG.
Specifically on NYE? I remember waiting patiently to see if the whole Y2K thing was as overblown as it seemed...
I was in 7th grade.
I was just discovering things like anime and RPGs, and I think this is when I got my cat, as well, probably the few good things in my life at the time.
I have pretty much always had depression; it was probably at its worst in 7th grade. Bad times all around.
As for NYE? Probably at my grandparents' house watch the ball drop with a kiddy-size glass of champagne.
Quote from: NomadicSeems like we've got alot of people in here in the same age range heh (20-22)... and a couple old coots :P
Oh, Just rub it in, wandering man...
Quote from: LordVreegQuote from: NomadicSeems like we've got alot of people in here in the same age range heh (20-22)... and a couple old coots :P
Oh, Just rub it in, wandering man...
So you admit that you're an old coot?
Quote from: limetom... depression; it was probably at its worst in 7th grade. Bad times all around.
If it's any consolation, that's pretty much standard for 7th grade.
Quote from: Rorschach FritosQuote from: limetom... depression; it was probably at its worst in 7th grade. Bad times all around.
If it's any consolation, that's pretty much standard for 7th grade.
Except for the popular jocks who get to date the hot girls...
God I hated middle school. :-/
Quote from: NomadicSo you admit that you're an old coot?
I admit to being an ancient, grizzled curmudgeon.
I'm cantankerous. I putter around.
Of course I'm an old geezer.
Quote from: limetom... depression; it was probably at its worst in 7th grade. Bad times all around.
I appreciate the sentiment, but this was something quite different than the normal stuff. :3
Uhh.. hmm... I was in either 6th or 7th grade. I remember going to Pizza Hut with my parents for dinner on NYE. I was actually not far away from P&P, although Pokemon, MtG, and Baldur's Gate would be the games to lead me into it. I was kind of an introvert at that point, spending a lot of my time playing video games and building things with LEGO, Knex, and a few other similar toys.
As people say, if only one knew then what they knew now...
I was in grade 7 (if my math is right...) and also just starting roleplaying. I'd found an old AD&D book in my class's "games closet" and taken it home - about a year later I was purchasing books myself.
Ah, 10 years ago... Can't say I remember much. I was 9 years, and probably spent most of my time alone or with my brother. I was in the third grade i believe (although I don't know what that corresponds to in the US school system). I was probably still quite into LEGO (had a cellar full of the stuff when i was younger; this is after all the country where it was invented) and if that was the year of pokemon I might have begun collecting those silly pieces of cardboard as well. Hmm, probably played video games as well. Did the Nintendo 64 still exist back then? Remember having one of those.
NYE was probably spend somewhere with my parents and I was probably bored; was never much into fireworks. After a few years they look kinda alike.
A bunch of damn kids around here, huh, every other RPG site I go to, I'm the average age... I'll be 47 this month.
Ten years ago, I think I was still frozen in a cyrogenic tank beneath the Pentagon - wait a minute I was buying tickets to go to Hawaii on my birthday, yeah, back when I still had money and the economy didn't suck.
Oh well, professionally at least for cartography and game publishing things look great! In real life my graphic design studio might shut down - no business, not enough to pay bills anyway, which means Gamer Printshop as far as being a printshop might go away as well (design side is growing and improving despite everything else.) I'm only half excited about 2010, we'll see what happens.
GP
[blockquote=Cataclysmic Crow]year of pokemon[/blockquote]Ha I so remember this... for me I thnk Pokemon became cool in grade 6, remained somewhat cool through half of grade 7, and then by grade 8 was the province of a few guys who'd made the investment in the trading cards and weren't willing to let go. You weren't supposed to admit that only a few months ago you'd known every pokemon and its evolved forms (and probably most of their attacks as well, and what regions you could find them in, and what types they were), because suddenly there was an enomrous social stigma around it, at least where I went to school. Roeplaying was less mainstream there so it tended to go under the radar more so long as you didn't advertuse the hobby.
Ironically, I've noticed in recent years a nostalgic return to seeing Pokemon as cool/ironic again in my age group. Like, if someone proposed to have a pokemon movie marathon, that wouldn't be considered totally childish anymore (or in any case it'd be a good kind of childish).
Sorry to hear about your studio, Gamer Printshop - I hope things work out.
Ten years ago.... well, on New Year's Eve I was with my dad on top of the South Common in Lincoln, being 10 and watching fireworks :D
Quote from: Steerpike[blockquote=Cataclysmic Crow]year of pokemon[/blockquote]Ha I so remember this... for me I thnk Pokemon became cool in grade 6, remained somewhat cool through half of grade 7, and then by grade 8 was the province of a few guys who'd made the investment in the trading cards and weren't willing to let go. You weren't supposed to admit that only a few months ago you'd known every pokemon and its evolved forms (and probably most of their attacks as well, and what regions you could find them in, and what types they were), because suddenly there was an enomrous social stigma around it, at least where I went to school. Roeplaying was less mainstream there so it tended to go under the radar more so long as you didn't advertuse the hobby.
Ironically, I've noticed in recent years a nostalgic return to seeing Pokemon as cool/ironic again in my age group. Like, if someone proposed to have a pokemon movie marathon, that wouldn't be considered totally childish anymore (or in any case it'd be a good kind of childish).
Sorry to hear about your studio, Gamer Printshop - I hope things work out.
Yeah same here. Pokemon was super popular in 6th grade. I remember everyone bringing their gameboys to school and playing during recess.
When 7th grade hit, all the popular kids disavowed Pokemon. The less popular kids all got into the TCG. Unfortunately, there was an incident where some boy tried to steal a card from a girl and that girl happened to punch that boy, so Pokemon Cards were banned at school. Years later, I found out that girl was actually one of my players! Small world, no?
Yea same here, got popular in 6th grade and then slowly faded into obscurity. After pokemon faded though magic the gathering saw massive growth. I remember lunch breaks in late middle school and high school that had 12 way MtG games with intricate alliances and backstabbing and all kinds of awesome fun. In high school yugioh got picked up by a few of the anime fans among us and we gladly accepted it in as another way to waste our lunch break. By the time I graduated we had alternating games of magic and yugioh going on in a group of about 20 people (serious and casual players both).
Quote from: NomadicYea same here, got popular in 6th grade and then slowly faded into obscurity. After pokemon faded though magic the gathering saw massive growth. I remember lunch breaks in late middle school and high school that had 12 way MtG games with intricate alliances and backstabbing and all kinds of awesome fun. In high school yugioh got picked up by a few of the anime fans among us and we gladly accepted it in as another way to waste our lunch break. By the time I graduated we had alternating games of magic and yugioh going on in a group of about 20 people (serious and casual players both).
o_O;;; Why couldn't I have gone to your school!?
At my high school, Yugioh players were horribly ridiculed, I really felt sorry for the lunch break duelists (though I was too busy eating pizza and wandering the halls talking about Gundams and Morrowind with my friends). Magic was never really that popular and when it was seen, most people were interested in and/or mystified by it (including the jocks). I suppose it didn't hurt that the Magic players were always kind of creepy and the Yugioh players were nerdy. Of course TCG/CCG players had a refuge nearby - Collectible Cards and Computers - which was the local card shop and well with in walking distance. I used to go there every weekend and play Yugioh as well as a few times a week after school just to hang out with other like-minded nerds.
My magic experiences were somewhat similar to Nomadic's, though we mostly played outside of school itself. I was an International Baccalaureate student in high school (somewhat similar to AP), so we had to do grade 11 and 12 math in grade 11 and calculus in grade 12, making for a very brutal final two years. I remember a lot of long afternoons where large groups of us would get together to grind out math assignments before rewarding ourselves with MtG... one guy had about 5000 cards so mostly we just played with his decks.
Quote from: Elemental_ElfQuote from: NomadicYea same here, got popular in 6th grade and then slowly faded into obscurity. After pokemon faded though magic the gathering saw massive growth. I remember lunch breaks in late middle school and high school that had 12 way MtG games with intricate alliances and backstabbing and all kinds of awesome fun. In high school yugioh got picked up by a few of the anime fans among us and we gladly accepted it in as another way to waste our lunch break. By the time I graduated we had alternating games of magic and yugioh going on in a group of about 20 people (serious and casual players both).
o_O;;; Why couldn't I have gone to your school!?
At my high school, Yugioh players were horribly ridiculed, I really felt sorry for the lunch break duelists (though I was too busy eating pizza and wandering the halls talking about Gundams and Morrowind with my friends). Magic was never really that popular and when it was seen, most people were interested in and/or mystified by it (including the jocks). I suppose it didn't hurt that the Magic players were always kind of creepy and the Yugioh players were nerdy. Of course TCG/CCG players had a refuge nearby - Collectible Cards and Computers - which was the local card shop and well with in walking distance. I used to go there every weekend and play Yugioh as well as a few times a week after school just to hang out with other like-minded nerds.
Well we were most definitely the "nerdy" group. The thing was that we were a very large group and most of us were pretty normal guys who just happened to enjoy gaming, sci-fi, and so forth (as opposed to extreme trekkies or other people totally obsessed with such things). I was probably the most nerdy of the bunch, but that was largely in the computer field and I knew enough useful stuff that I looked more like a computer tech than "that nerdy dude" (heck I spent alot of time helping the school tech set up networks and pcs and install software and such). And again there were alot of us (all the various computer, anime, card game, roleplay, etc groups together was a good 50-75 people). So in short there wasn't much shunning/making fun of us as a result of all of this.
I found this, it's a summery of the last decade:
(http://i.imgur.com/Qv1BF.jpg)
I proudly graduated in the middle of my class (GPA around 2.67) in May of aught aught. So this time of year, ten years ago I was probably just starting my second semseter of my senior year at Union high School in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
This was the semester I had creative writing for first hour. My favorite class ever. Most days it could be used as a study hall.
While there were topic suggestions, unless the project was assigned by a student teacher, the only real requirement was page count: the equivalent of one double-spaced page of text for a regualr assignment and two pages for big ones. For this class, my last big project of the year was a twenty page play retelling the War in Heaven and the Garden of Eden with a sympathetic Lucifer. My own idea. The suggested form of the big project was a children's picture book.
I had two close friends at school that year. I'm still sort of in touch with them and they are forum mods on my proboards forum (http://khyron1144.proboards.com/index.cgi?).
I'd been a fairly serious RPG gamer for about four years at this point. Some projects posted here on the CBG have their origins in these days.
Nice to see the "real-side" of people.
Let's see, 10 years ago, I was just entering high-school, being the nice kid who studied, had his good friends and liked swimming. Nowadays, I'm a dad, about to graduate and currently working as a teacher...life doesn't cease to amaze me!
Real side? I prefer unreality to be honest. It's much easier... well, sometimes, anyway...
That seems to be a fairly apt chart, EE.
I don't know; where is the climate crisis? : P
seems to have been left out in the dark. Maybe it's just bigger in Europe than on the other side of the Atlantic.
I'm a little surprised too - I would have thought it'd make the "FEAR" category somewhere.
2006, 2005 or 2004 seem to be the most appropriate years- which was the year of Inconvenient Truth? And post-Katrina I would suspect there must have been a great deal of climate fear-mongering. And I thought that the Bird flu worries were in 2004-- not in 2006.
Climate isn't taken that seriously in the real world, out side of Academia, especially in the face of terrorism, pandemics and the economy. Call it a human failing but the immediate and personal problems always take precedence to the long term problems.
It isn't? Hm, maybe it's just the people I know, but it seems to me like it's a genuine worry. Or maybe things are just a bit different across the pond.
In America, real people (i.e. not going to school or actively involved in the green movement) really aren't that concerned with it. The problem is far more distant than the immediacy of the economy, the housing market, the wars, all these threats of terrorism, the ineptitude of the federal government, etc. In a lot of ways people just don't want another problem to deal with... Plus the government doesn't really support a lot of green initiatives like Europe does, which means even if you want to change it's really expensive. :(
Well, it's taken very seriously over here. It's pretty much what the news and the politicians talk about half the time.
>>Plus the government doesn't really support a lot of green initiatives like Europe does, which means even if you want to change it's really expensive
In the United States:
...The tax incentives for wind power are significant-- by making enough investments, companies can write off a huge amount of their overall tax burdens. Sadly, wind currently requires scaling units, such as natural gas plants, to be useful. In Denmark, wind hit about 25% of their grid-- with current technology its percentage cannot be much higher without endangering the entire grid. Perhaps battery technology will improve to store wind power-- but subsidizing the creation of EXISTING wind turbines does not lead to investment in that technology except in a roundabout manner. Public and Private sector investment should be in the science/technology realm, not in subsidizing construction of more less-than-ideally efficient projects.
And even though corn-based ethanol is both economically foolish and environmentally dangerous-- the industry is supported by subsidies, and tax breaks to the tune of billions a year.
Solar is subsidized more than anything else, and produces less.
Per megawatt hour when evaluated for efficiency v. subsidies, solar (especially the parabolic dishes) is probably WORSE for the environment when all the equipment installing it is factored in plus the habitat destruction it creates. And silicon-based solar threatens to push up computer hardware costs.
The United States does subsidize oil, nuclear, and coal- indeed. If it did not, then its goal of energy self-reliance would be even less likely achieved, and the national oil companies would control even more of the worldwide price than they currently do. Independent Western oil companies such as Exxon only control less than 20% of production and less than 40% of refining capacity.
However, per MWH, those subsidies give a lot more bang for the buck for consumers in terms of cheaper energy than renewable technologies.
Clean Coal Carbon Sequestration requires such a large output of energy that a coal plant needs to operate at 125-150% more power to sequester whatever amount of coal it previously possessed. The US subsidizes Clean Carbon Sequestration technology.
>>Well, it's taken very seriously over here. It's pretty much what the news and the politicians talk about half the time.
Glad I moved then. And perhaps in the future I will move again back to China where I lived for over a year-- although China certainly realizes the threat of environmental damage, it has greater respect for the importance of economic growth for the health of society. (Environmental concerns are dealt with to the extent they threaten economic prosperity). While both need to be balanced, making huge sacrifices of dubious value while damaging one's economy is decidedly foolish.
Does the specter of climate change threaten economic prosperity... Maybe.
Climate change has always happened, sometimes with disastrous consequences. What is NOT established is that wasting all this money trying to prevent climate change will do anything-- especially since it makes a lot of sense for non-Tier 1 countries (as defined from Kyoto) to pollute as much as they want while industrializing-- and reap benefits in terms of jobs.
When the smart grid arrives, I'm checking the box desiring delivery of the cheapest and most efficient fuel available- probably coal in the absence of a carbon tax. And I'm keeping my CFLs until they burn out and need to be replaced rather than prematurely tossing them and creating even more environmental waste.
Of course what works in Europe generally doesn't work so well over here. Of course in the big cities things like mass transit, encouragement of biking, etc work just fine. Alot of the US though is spread out and the cost to develop mass transit, alternate energy, etc is beyond what many communities can hope to afford. Modern America was built with the automobile in mind. What is considered a small trip (10-20 mile drive) to the store where I live would be a huge deal in say the UK where walking to the store is far more common.
@Light Dragon: I know the government does subsidize in some respects but I was mainly referring to a personal/individual/family subsidy that puts green energy and green appliances on a par with conventional appliances in terms of money.
Americans are very conscientious people and would always support and buy green technologies if the cost of doing so was not significantly above more traditional technologies.
@Nomadic: Indeed, the United States is a product of the times in which it urbanized and industrialized. Our country is a country designed for the automobile. That is why urban sprawl and large single family homes are the norm (as compared to Europe and more densely populated countries).
In a lot of ways I wish we were more like Europe but that just can't be with out a massive country-changing paradigm shift in policy and national mindset.
>>Of course what works in Europe generally doesn't work so well over here. Of course in the big cities things like mass transit, encouragement of biking, etc work just fine. Alot of the US though is spread out and the cost to develop mass transit, alternate energy, etc is beyond what many communities can hope to afford. Modern America was built with the automobile in mind. What is considered a small trip (10-20 mile drive) to the store where I live would be a huge deal in say the UK where walking to the store is far more common
True. I miss the walkability of European and Asian cities.
The sheer distances involved in the US also explain why its broadband penetration is lower than Japan or Korea's.
>>but I was mainly referring to a personal/individual/family subsidy that puts green energy and green appliances on a par with conventional appliances in terms of money.
Thank you for the clarification, EE. I was of the understanding that the energy rebates in the US for that were similar to those in Europe. For example, there were for a time, rebates to install individual solar panels for water heating on homes. Also, there are tax breaks for installing better insulating windows in the US. However, I am not familiar with current European tax breaks on these matters.
I am not so certain that Americans are conscientious regarding energy use. Because America is so rich, many Americans do not understand how to save electricity or to conserve resources.
To save money, I for example, follow the Chinese way and do not use dryers. I allow things to dry on the clothes line. I insulate my windows and wear sweaters indoors in the winter. I walk or ride the bus/subway as much as possible-- these things are simply not part of the US psyche. I also turn my cellphone and computer off at night and unplug electronic devices. For a while I took only cold showers (but the cost/benefit there lost out in favor of decadence). Most people in my city do not do these things-- all these things save money, but Americans do not seem to be very familiar with frugality because the country and their ancestors have been so lucky.
Like I said most Americans would switch if it was the same (or nearly equal) price of traditional appliances. For example, most homes are built with energy efficient windows and insulation. Further, many people jumped on the federal tax rebate for the on demand energy efficient water heaters. Sadly, a lot of people didn't know about the rebate until it was too late.
At the same time, Hybrid cars are also becoming widespread. With in 10 years they should be quite common as people trade in their used hybrids for new ones, which allows people with less disposable income the ability to buy a used Hybrids.
At the same time there really isn't any hope for the prospect of people turning up their air conditioning and turning down their heaters. That is just a bit too much. On the other extreme there are people who take the european mentality too far and turn their heaters down to 50 degrees at night then crank it back up to 70 during the day. The amount of energy required to get a house heated back up to that temperature vastly outstrips the cost of maintaining a level 69.
As for Dryers, once again that is something that simply won't go away. However, technology is ever advancing and I'm sure there will be green(er) dryers released on to the market, if they are not there already.
Side comment about electric cars. While I think a few more would probably be a good idea; I am a bit concerned that they contribute more Nitrogen Oxide emissions than regular gasoline cars contribute. And NOx causes smog and has more immediate negative detrimental effects.
An electric car, per mile, makes 0.1 grams of NOx emissions. A gasoline car makes 0.07 grams.
Conversely, an electric car makes 164 grams of CO2 emissions; whereas a gasoline car makes 320 grams of CO2 emissions per mile.
According to a grid study I recently read, unless people charge at night, many US grids can only support about 5-8% of cars being plugged in and charging at once. If the electric cars plug in at night, they could possibly account for 30% of the current fleet however.
--
Also:
>>Like I said most Americans would switch if it was the same (or nearly equal) price of traditional appliances. For example, most homes are built with energy efficient windows and insulation. Further, many people jumped on the federal tax rebate for the on demand energy efficient water heaters. Sadly, a lot of people didn't know about the rebate until it was too late.
Well, if there has to be a tax rebate to make it the same or nearly equal in price to traditional appliances, then the new appliances are really NOT the same price. The money for the tax rebates and discounts come from Taxes (or in lost tax revenue). The things cost the same regardless-- their cost is just spread out over more people thanks to the rebate.
It only makes sense for the government to support those initiatives if they can rightly show that over a 10 or 20 year period the energy savings actually lead to cash savings- that's gvt's job, to help encourage people to think in terms of long-term benefit. If they don't do that or the gvt's 10-year plans are poorly conducted, then these rebates are actually an additional and unbeneficial redistributory tax that hurts everyone.
When these rebate programs encourage people to replace inefficient things with new ones before the inefficient ones' life-cycles run out though, they are doing a disservice to the environment by creating more waste and actually losing money for consumers or taxpayers. ... I think I may be rambling and creating new issues here that were not meant to be originally addressed...
>>As for Dryers, once again that is something that simply won't go away. However, technology is ever advancing and I'm sure there will be green(er) dryers released on to the market, if they are not there already.
The dryers are going to use electricity that they shouldn't be using in the first place. More efficiency still doesn't solve the problem.
And for every energy efficient dryer that is purchased, a new energy-hogging LCD TV screen more than offsets its benefits.
Quote from: Light DragonAnd for every energy efficient dryer that is purchased, a new energy-hogging LCD TV screen more than offsets its benefits.
I would like to point out that that same energy hogging LCD TV also more than offsets the benefits of hanging your clothing out to dry.
Nomadic- haha :)
@Light Dragon: That post is exactly why American's don't change. Everything is too min/max and doom and gloom. People want to be told, flat out, what they need to do. Being wishy washy and weighing the pros and cons just isn't the best way to penetrate the American psyche. A decisive plan is what's needed. :)
EDIT: As for the rebate issue, you misunderstand how we look at it. The sticker says it's equal in price, that means it's a good buy. Factoring in the taxes and lost governmental revenue simply does not come to people's minds. Better they buy the product than not.
Also, when you have a large appliance removed, unless it's faulty, people usually donate it to charity or sell it off, so the process does not create new waste.
>>"That post is exactly why American's don't change. Everything is too min/max and doom and gloom. People want to be told, flat out, what they need to do. Being wishy washy and weighing the pros and cons just isn't the best way to penetrate the American psyche. A decisive plan is what's needed."
EE- That sounds very totalitarian and to some degree communist; that seems the exact opposite of the american ideal of individualism and the idea of america. And that also doesn't seem to indicate that americans are responsible people, but that they are more like sheep? Is that what you were trying to express? I fully acknowledge that I may have misunderstood you.
>>Also, when you have a large appliance removed, unless it's faulty, people usually donate it to charity or sell it off, so the process does not create new waste.
For those who know about this- this is great! For those who do not, it is not. My neighborhood sometimes has large white goods and often sofas thrown out on the street. If it is true that the majority really do donate it, then I have more respect for the situation.
>>DIT: As for the rebate issue, you misunderstand how we look at it. The sticker says it's equal in price, that means it's a good buy. Factoring in the taxes and lost governmental revenue simply does not come to people's minds. Better they buy the product than not.
Hm. I agree- to the individual even if everyone's taxes go up 1 unit, but that decreases the price of the energy efficient thing to 10 units from 100- they certainly should buy it.
But that doesn't necessarily make it a good deal, because the government cannot afford to subsidize everyone's new dryer at a tax of 1 unit. Either the tax needs to be higher so that all may benefit, or the benefits are unequally distributed among the first to realize there is a discount.
I suppose a fair way to state our situations is that- the gvt. rebate tax makes it a good deal for some, but not for all. And that if done correctly it could lead to a utilitarian net benefit.
10 years ago... was in HS... also was my school's sysadmin but they were not to pay me, so they had to have stuff "fall off the truck". I also ran a very frequent dnd campaign... 2e with a lot of house rules that ended up as 3.x. I even had some of the popular kids playing... So much infighting in my game too... it was amusing..
Quote from: Light DragonEE- That sounds very totalitarian and to some degree communist; that seems the exact opposite of the american ideal of individualism and the idea of america. And that also doesn't seem to indicate that americans are responsible people, but that they are more like sheep? Is that what you were trying to express? I fully acknowledge that I may have misunderstood you.
Ok, I admit it, I went a little too far with my comment. The problem is that there's a lot of different green organizations telling people what they *must* to do and this leads to a lot of sensory overload. This overload easily generates a lot of indecision, which breeds an apathetic attitude towards all green initiatives.
Quote from: Light DragonFor those who know about this- this is great! For those who do not, it is not. My neighborhood sometimes has large white goods and often sofas thrown out on the street. If it is true that the majority really do donate it, then I have more respect for the situation.
I live in a desert, so most people do 1 of 2 things with their used appliances - donate/sell them or take them out into the desert and pitch them. The former, can net you a good tax refund and/or cash, the latter (if caught) can net you a massive fine (as well as being forced to properly dispose of the appliance (usually through good will). The cool thing is that the good will shops around here will actually come to your house and pick up large appliances and furniture if you call them, so there's really no excuse not to donate the stuff.
Quote from: Light DragonHm. I agree- to the individual even if everyone's taxes go up 1 unit, but that decreases the price of the energy efficient thing to 10 units from 100- they certainly should buy it.
But that doesn't necessarily make it a good deal, because the government cannot afford to subsidize everyone's new dryer at a tax of 1 unit. Either the tax needs to be higher so that all may benefit, or the benefits are unequally distributed among the first to realize there is a discount.
I suppose a fair way to state our situations is that- the gvt. rebate tax makes it a good deal for some, but not for all. And that if done correctly it could lead to a utilitarian net benefit.
I definitely agree, the tax rebates are for the short term. It's not a perfect system but every little bit helps.
>>The cool thing is that the good will shops around here will actually come to your house and pick up large appliances and furniture if you call them, so there's really no excuse not to donate the stuff.
That is very nice of your area.
QuoteThe problem is that there's a lot of different green organizations telling people what they *must* to do and this leads to a lot of sensory overload. This overload easily generates a lot of indecision, which breeds an apathetic attitude towards all green initiatives.
I can agree with that. Unity of message is important in advertising and in many other things as well.
Not to mention the global warming stuff keeps alot of people from taking it seriously as they see it as fear mongering.
10 years ago, I was 32...now I'm 42...and 10 years from now, I'll be 52...ain't that a bitch...roleplaying for 30 years now...that's great. Keep it simple and live longer.
Quote from: Light DragonThat sounds very totalitarian and to some degree communist; that seems the exact opposite of the american ideal of individualism and the idea of america. And that also doesn't seem to indicate that americans are responsible people, but that they are more like sheep? Is that what you were trying to express? I fully acknowledge that I may have misunderstood you.
I wouldn't go quite that far, but in general, there is reason to think that of the home country to McDonald's and Wal-Mart.
I guess 10 years ago I was pretty normal for someone who is now 22. Geek normal, that is. I loved Pokemon and...wait, I still love Pokemon. I have my DS with Platinum next to my bed and have preordered the new games coming in March...I was always more into Monster Rancher, though. The DS form of which is coming out in March, too.
I had a bit of an interest in D&D and the like but didn't get truly serious with the books and all until a year or two later...shortly after 3.0 came out. I was into Magic The Gathering with varying degrees of seriousness long before that. Started when I was six or so. Hasn't really stopped, I've just been off it for a while again.
One difference -- I've always kind of bordered on obsession with music. And, for some reason, I have girlfriends (generally pretty good looking ones, too) slightly more often than the average geek. I guess I'm one of the freaky hybrid models that just doesn't quite fit in place.
I still listen to a lot of music from 10 years ago...