The Winter Olympics just began yesterday and already we've had some very exciting events such as seeing Apollo Anton Ohno speed skating and the Women's Canadian Hockey Team trouncing Solovakia 18-0. This Olympiad looks to be as much, if not more, fun than the last held in Torino!
So, here are a few ideas to get the ball of discussion rolling:
Obviously you root for your home country to win but do you root for any other countries? Are there countries you always root against? Which sport is your favorite to watch? Least? Do you play any of the Winter Olympic sports? Do you have any favorite athletes you're looking forward to watching?
Quote from: Elemental_Elf Are there countries you always root against?
Least?
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Do you have any favorite athletes you're looking forward to watching?
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Apollo Anton Ohno has of course been awesome. Otherwise I am just looking forward to watching it in general
Quote from: NomadicQuote from: Elemental_Elf Are there countries you always root against?
Well there was all that talk of some countries using drugs and crazy training to breed olympians ... maybe I was dreaming that though ...
I'm not huge on the Olympics. My fiancee's the sport nut here. She's excited about Ski Cross. And curling ...
I don't know whether it's just me being weird but I honestly dislike competitions like the Olympics.
It's not that I mind sports as such (not that I'm a fan, but I can understand why some people would like them), but besides this being a major intercultural event (which I guess is a good thing in many ways) this just seems completely ridiculous.
We spend billions on worshipping people who really aren't qualified for anything else than a single type of competition.
Sports can be fun, but nothing more. You are not a hero because you are good at a sport, and neither are you saving lives nor creating anything worthwhile. At most you are the best at some sport in the world, and then what? The gold medal your country earned doesn't make your country any better, and it's not like you have essentially accomplished anything in the grand scheme of things. Next year (well, 4 in this case) somebody else will come along and grab the trophy, and on and on and on.
I really don't get how sport has become so idolized is all. It's fun for the participant and for nationally competitive watchers, but it's not good or awesome or anything.
I'm not really rooting for my own country in the competition, but neither do I mind if they win. It doesn't really matter in my opinion.
This was in no way an attempt to derail the thread, I merely wanted to voice the opinion of the Devil's Advocate :)
Really, I hope people are having fun with this no matter what, I just don't get it personally (my loss I guess).
On an unrelated note, I'd like to see Vancouver someday. Supposed to be a nice city.
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowWe spend billions on worshipping people who really aren't qualified for anything else than a single type of competition.
Sports can be fun, but nothing more. You are not a hero because you are good at a sport, and neither are you saving lives nor creating anything worthwhile. At most you are the best at some sport in the world, and then what? The gold medal your country earned doesn't make your country any better, and it's not like you have essentially accomplished anything in the grand scheme of things. Next year (well, 4 in this case) somebody else will come along and grab the trophy, and on and on and on.
I really don't get how sport has become so idolized is all. It's fun for the participant and for nationally competitive watchers, but it's not good or awesome or anything.
My thoughts exactly!
Quote from: NomadicCanada of course, those guys deserve to take some medals.
Here's hoping, even though Canada has a long and storied history at sucking at the Olympics (as long as it isn't hockey). However we do have 1 silver medal already, so off to a good start!
I see sports as a substitute for intertribal warring. Human nature hasn't really changed much since the days of hunter-gatherers squabbling over the greenest pastures. We've merely found less violent ways to channel our pack mentality by staging these elaborate mock battles. Instead of throwing sticks and rocks at each other we now gather to watch these top athletes/teams, who are kind of like champions stepping forth to the challenge so that the rest of the tribe doesn't have to risk life and limb. The trophies and rewards are the plunder that is taken (or lost).
It's pretty silly, but better than the more old fashioned ways of determining intercommunal pecking order.
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI don't know whether it's just me being weird but I honestly dislike competitions like the Olympics.
It's not that I mind sports as such (not that I'm a fan, but I can understand why some people would like them), but besides this being a major intercultural event (which I guess is a good thing in many ways) this just seems completely ridiculous.
We spend billions on worshipping people who really aren't qualified for anything else than a single type of competition.
For the cultural exchange alone, the Olympics are better and more pure than all the professional sports that litter the industrialized world.
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowSports can be fun, but nothing more. You are not a hero because you are good at a sport, and neither are you saving lives nor creating anything worthwhile. At most you are the best at some sport in the world, and then what? The gold medal your country earned doesn't make your country any better, and it's not like you have essentially accomplished anything in the grand scheme of things. Next year (well, 4 in this case) somebody else will come along and grab the trophy, and on and on and on.
The word 'hero' has been so diluted by sports 'heroes' that it has become a worthless word, much like 'awesome.' I will counter you on the 'not creating anything worthwhile' bit. They are entertainers that allow people to escape into another world, a world where they can forget all the ills of the real world if for only a few passing hours. That IS a worthy creation; worthy of as much praise as an actor or an orator.
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowI really don't get how sport has become so idolized is all. It's fun for the participant and for nationally competitive watchers, but it's not good or awesome or anything.
We live in an increasingly secular society that favors youth and vitality above all other qualities. Where else would such a society look to for its heroes other than an entire industry of young men and women full of vigor and vitality?
Quote from: GhostmanIt's pretty silly, but better than the more old fashioned ways of determining intercommunal pecking order.
I'd rather sit on my couch and watch some gorgeous female hockey players play a competitive sport than be drafted by my country and sent off to fight in a meaningless war... :)
While I love sports and have competed in them throughout high school and on a collegiate level, the Olympics bring out the casual sports fan who unthinkingly cheers for the home team only because it's the home team. The Olympics are designed for people who want to get excited and care about something without considering why.
During the summer Olympics, you can start a conversation with someone about the 800 meter dash and expect at least some interest, not in the race itself, but in the names of the countries competing or the latest Apollo Ono or Michael Phelps or whomever the flash in the pan is at the moment.
When I mention to people that I ran the 800 in college at a national level, I can rarely get more than an, "Oh that's neat."
Quote from: LeetzWhen I mention to people that I ran the 800 in college at a national level, I can rarely get more than an, "Oh that's neat."
I am being totally honest here, I think that's actually pretty awesome. Not many people in the grand scheme of things ever reach the national level in anything. That's quite an achievement.
I am actually surprised a bit. When the Summer Olympics were on we had alot more positive responses on here. Do people just not like the Winter Olympics or has something changed? It seems a bit ironic when not long ago a bunch of people were rooting on the super bowl, an event IMHO that is infinitely less justified than the Olympics. Elemental Elf has it right as far as I am concerned. The cultural connection alone makes the event worthwhile. The politicians will always be politicians, even when attending these things. However the athletes and the people that come to watch them are generally of a different sort. It brings out alot of good in people. Sure there will always be rooting for the home team (it's sports and that's not going to change soon) but there is plenty of cheering for the others, the underdogs, the dark horses, those struck by tragedy. And frankly, while this might just be the American in me talking, a little national pride isn't bad.
Llum:
Even if the athletes aren't paid, plenty of money is spend on the occasion itself :)
E_E:
I agree there is far worse to be found in the world of sports; the Olympics at least have some historical weight and some good intentions. But it is still broadcast sports with all that entails.
And the reason I'm not much for it might just be that I've never been able to see the entertainment value in watching sports. Doing sports, sure, I can see why people would do that. But watching them?? I really have trouble finding a reason for doing that, other than a sense of belonging (and I'd just second guess my cheering so that's not going to work for me). I demand a bit more of my escapism.
But I guess I can't avoid that it is entertaining to some, and that makes your point about why sportsmen don't deserve to be praised for a good performance just as an actor or an orator a very valid one. But I'd say that sports requires talent, muscle memory, and lots of repetition while (good) acting requires interpretation, understanding of emotions and humans, imagination, and an insight into gestures and expressions (and a sense of timing on occasion).
And I really don't want an entire generation who "only" value youth and vitality. These are not so much virtues as they are simple traits in my book. Being young or strong doesn't make you a better person.
But yes, sports is better than war. We can all agree on that I think ^^
But why do you like watching sports? Can you explain to me where the entertainment value is if we look past the national loyalty? I'd like to know :)
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowBut why do you like watching sports? Can you explain to me where the entertainment value is if we look past the national loyalty? I'd like to know :)
Exactly. Maybe .5% of the people in the world can honestly say that they are avid fans of the biathlon in and of itself. They know the rules, the stars, the history, etc. But, if it's an American versus a Russian, all of a sudden everyone suddenly gives a damn about the biathlon, not because of the sport, but because they're rooting for America, which is, for lack of a better word, dumb. For most people, the Olympics are more about nationality and celebrity and the warm-fuzz-we-are-the-world feeling than any particular sport.
I understand not watching sports. I'm not a big sports fan. In fact, I only follow sports every two years, when the Olympics comes around.
I agree that an athlete is not a hero like Nelson Mandela or Jonas Salk. Few people are. It can be argued that they do not "contribute," though I find this dubious - plenty of athletes use their money for charitable purposes, and while the "role model" thing is overplayed I do think there is a value in children seeing the positive outcomes of a life of dedication and perseverance.
The primary reason why I follow the Olympics, however, is that I am a Humanist. I do not mean this in the sense of the strident debate in our culture about religion and science, though it may have spiritual and religious meaning; I mean it in the sense that I, as a human, believe that I will be happiest and healthiest if I deny self-loathing and inadequacy and embrace my biological identity along with everything it entails. I do not like the phrase "nobody's perfect" because it defines perfection as something non-human. As a human, I see no reason to acknowledge such a standard. There is a sublimity within the human character and form that is worth exploring, worth pursuing, worth knowing as fully as we can know it. It is the source of our art and our ugliness, our pride and our shame. To be a fully realized human is to accept these things with humility, but never guilt.
We are not just intellectual creatures. We have a body as well as a mind. Philosophies that try to reduce us to minds, rational or irrational, are innately flawed. We are not Manichean dualities, but whole people. We must not fall into the trap of seeing intellectual achievement as excellent and physical achievement as worthless; that is fundamentally anti-human. Any humanist - that is to say, anyone with an incurable fascination with what it means to be human - must, I believe, also have respect and awe for the physical nature of our form, the intricate machinery of life that has created in us tremendous ability and potential. Whether you believe we were created as we are or are the products of an inexorable and unending process of natural development, you should acknowledge how astonishing this thing called the human body is.
I watch the Olympics because it is a celebration of both the physical aspect of humanity and the determination and drive that define us. It is, in its better moments, a glimpse of the beauty of man. Commercialization, scandal, and tragedy will always be there to try to deprive us of that glimpse, but it has not yet faded. I hope it never will.
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowAnd the reason I'm not much for it might just be that I've never been able to see the entertainment value in watching sports. Doing sports, sure, I can see why people would do that. But watching them?? I really have trouble finding a reason for doing that, other than a sense of belonging (and I'd just second guess my cheering so that's not going to work for me). I demand a bit more of my escapism.
I'm sure people say the same thing about D&D - 'God all you do is sit at a table and do math all night! How boring!' :)
Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowBut why do you like watching sports? Can you explain to me where the entertainment value is if we look past the national loyalty? I'd like to know :)
It all depends on the sport. I despise sports that are too fast, super repetitive or play on too large a field. So sports like Luge, Soccer, Bobsledding, Skiing, Skiing across a track, Skiing off a Ledge, etc. do not interest me. However, I do enjoy watching sports like Hockey, Ice Skating, Row Boating, Speed Skating, Nordic Combined. Also, I will be the first to admit, I like looking at attractive women run around, so Women's Ice Hockey, Women's Field Hockey and, especially, Women's Beach Volley Ball are all very entertaining ;) .
Quote from: LeetzExactly. Maybe .5% of the people in the world can honestly say that they are avid fans of the biathlon in and of itself. They know the rules, the stars, the history, etc. But, if it's an American versus a Russian, all of a sudden everyone suddenly gives a damn about the biathlon, not because of the sport, but because they're rooting for America, which is, for lack of a better word, dumb. For most people, the Olympics are more about nationality and celebrity and the warm-fuzz-we-are-the-world feeling than any particular sport.
Everyone loves a good horse race, even more so if you care for, or identify with, one of the horses. For better or worse, the Olympics are about National Pride.
I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the money spent on the Olympics is made back in tourism. Spending money doesn't mean it's just burned in flames.
And I second the notion that sports fill our need for conflict and testing our strengths. Plus, it allows me to make my gaming system really accurate. LOL.
Xev, how does it make your gaming system more accurate? Unless you are talking about a gambling system :p
And E_E, again, there is reason to do sports or DnD, but little reason to watch either of them without participating.
And it's true that some sports have more to them than others. Martial arts (summer olympics I guess) and performance sports like skating all require both talent, skill, balance, and contemplations on how to display it properly. Other sportsmen just do things. (I don't know if that made sense to you).
And the body is important. We are not exactly discarnate. But a form is something we have in common with everything else living known to exist and thus it hardly makes us more human (although, as you say, lack of a body would make us decidedly inhuman). Humanity is just as much craftsmanship, creation, society, intelligence, art and imagination and many other things and most of these things are neither appreciated nor worshipped as much as sports.
But there is far, far worse in the field of sports as I've mentioned. Tour de France springs to mind. That I actually dislike. Cycling has like five minutes of intensity at the most...
To summarize my concerns:
- Sports is (in general) not terribly interesting to watch
- I don't appreciate sportsmen as modern idols.
- It is less about physical excellence, and more about national competition.
[spoiler=A digression on soccer as a sport]Soccer is really big here (and in most of Europe), and that's all about money, team loyalty, big fields and people running around aimlessly waiting for somebody to pass them the ball so they can have their moment of glory (screw teamplay). There is no competition in that; too many things factor in to talk about whether somebody is slightly better or not. That's the kind of sport I'm not much for.
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Quote from: PolycarpI understand not watching sports. I'm not a big sports fan. In fact, I only follow sports every two years, when the Olympics comes around.
I agree that an athlete is not a hero like Nelson Mandela or Jonas Salk. Few people are. It can be argued that they do not "contribute," though I find this dubious - plenty of athletes use their money for charitable purposes, and while the "role model" thing is overplayed I do think there is a value in children seeing the positive outcomes of a life of dedication and perseverance.
The primary reason why I follow the Olympics, however, is that I am a Humanist. I do not mean this in the sense of the strident debate in our culture about religion and science, though it may have spiritual and religious meaning; I mean it in the sense that I, as a human, believe that I will be happiest and healthiest if I deny self-loathing and inadequacy and embrace my biological identity along with everything it entails. I do not like the phrase "nobody's perfect" because it defines perfection as something non-human. As a human, I see no reason to acknowledge such a standard. There is a sublimity within the human character and form that is worth exploring, worth pursuing, worth knowing as fully as we can know it. It is the source of our art and our ugliness, our pride and our shame. To be a fully realized human is to accept these things with humility, but never guilt.
We are not just intellectual creatures. We have a body as well as a mind. Philosophies that try to reduce us to minds, rational or irrational, are innately flawed. We are not Manichean dualities, but whole people. We must not fall into the trap of seeing intellectual achievement as excellent and physical achievement as worthless; that is fundamentally anti-human. Any humanist - that is to say, anyone with an incurable fascination with what it means to be human - must, I believe, also have respect and awe for the physical nature of our form, the intricate machinery of life that has created in us tremendous ability and potential. Whether you believe we were created as we are or are the products of an inexorable and unending process of natural development, you should acknowledge how astonishing this thing called the human body is.
I watch the Olympics because it is a celebration of both the physical aspect of humanity and the determination and drive that define us. It is, in its better moments, a glimpse of the beauty of man. Commercialization, scandal, and tragedy will always be there to try to deprive us of that glimpse, but it has not yet faded. I hope it never will.
Well spoken. Nothing else to contribute here, I just really like what you said (especially the bolded part).