I do not normally put much effort into religion within my settings. It is a very hairy situation I don't care much for and never feel satisfied with the sociological conjectures I have to make regarding it.
But this time I couldn't get away with it :/
So, I have a pantheon of gods that do not exist; they are imaginary and cannot be interacted with. They're also nameless.
There are 3 groupings of deities: The elder gods, the wilder gods and the third ones. They reflect (in theory) the stages of the world broken into three parts. Saga makes people aware that there was a time before man, and a time after man that came before the world they know of cities and towns and law. It follows a rather reasonable progression but I'm avoiding getting hung up in the details at the moment.
The elder gods are raw fictional elements. They are fire, water, earth, wind and metal. They came before, and all other things are derived from them. They interbred and created a number of different children. They are the wilder gods.
The wilder gods are of nature. They represent more primal things that existed before man made cities. They are:
Animals
Plants
Thunder
Birth
Death
Love
War
Diception
Stars
Moon
Sun
The hunt
The Harvest
Family
Might be broken up as some of them cover a LARGE area. Animals might be broken into insects, arachnids, sea things, birds and land mammals. Plant could be broken into the god of trees, a god of grasses and maybe a god of something like edible foods. What happens when you mix Fire and Earth? You get the sun. What happens when you mix metal and earth? You get the moon. Things like that.
The Third Ones are the children of the wilder gods. Like real children, they didn't turn out like their parents wanted them to. In fact, they were a bunch of conformist lamers. They are:
Law
Agriculture
Construction
Armies
Trade
Metalwork
Pottery
Woodcraft
Roads
Medicine
Writing
Music
As you can see, they're the things that make humans away from beasts in terms of what can be seen. The origin of our capacity for thought and the like is amongst the Wilder Gods.
This is probably shown up somewhere before, so someone here probably has a great idea on how it could be done better. I am looking to show case the concept for further refining for a GURPS campaign setting set in your typical no/low magic medieval world.
What kind of Third Ones do you feel I've missed? A few things (like Contracts, Oaths and the like) are covered under other (Law in that case). I was considering a god of Money, as trade != money though they are related (twin brothers, etc).
M.
I like how you've broken the pantheon into three categories, and the rationale for doing so. Do the third ones actually exist?
I don't see anything really wrong with your list. If you have them more fleshed out, I would love to read a bit. I was wondering about the wild god 'the Harvest' and the third 'Agriculture', don't know if you need that division. Also the third god, Armies, is this for large scale armies? Is this a deity that is worshiped by soldiers in general? Warriors in general? Or is it literally only a deity that favors large scale armies?
Interesting stuff, looking forward to more info.
Without getting into too much detail and making your pantheon huge, I'd say you have pretty much everything covered.
Sarisa, none of them actually exist. They are, however, actively worshiped within the same society. I am considering having a "primary" pantheon of generally more approved gods (With the god of Law being first and above all), with a lower pantheon of those worshiped by weird people, dangerous people and the like. Since culture tends to be urban, those who worship or put favor towards deities like Plants and Animals would probably get recognized as rather hokey.
"The Harvest" god is distinct from the god of Agriculture as a holdover memory from times pre-dating sewn fields; he's the god that rules over the gathering of food.
The god of Armies is one that rules over the logistical and tactical side of conflict. War itself rules over the concept. Probably a good idea I drop the god of Armies though, as I didn't think it was all that useful.
What I think I might place in is a god of cooking, who gave man the art of preparing food (from berries to pies and grain to bread, basically) and a god of drink and merriment (partying being considered a more modern thing I suppose).
M.
Quote from: Liebhaber CheWhat I think I might place in is a god of cooking, who gave man the art of preparing food (from berries to pies and grain to bread, basically) and a god of drink and merriment (partying being considered a more modern thing I suppose).
M.
I like that. Maybe tied in somehow to festivals? Festivals turn into private parties..a show of wealth maybe.
Here's an example I tossed up because the players start their campaign in a situation where they are at a church to the one "official" god.
Zivilisator is the Lawbringer, the chief god of worship (for most) amongst a broad pantheon. Though he did not create humans, he did make mankind.
He is a relatively straight forward god, one who brought the first code of law and the idea of order, legality and justice. He promotes regulation and organization, and represents the lynchpin of cohesion that makes civilization possible. Naturally, he receives a lot of attention in a society bound by the rule of law.
Zivilisator's basic code of law is called Sacred Law, and governs a few aspects of life. His teachings encourage a native legal code within the boundaries put forward by his Sacred Law.
The churches of Zivilisator are multi-purpose buildings. They are counthouses in which the accused are tried, record houses where official documents are notarized and stored. They are places of sanctity and civility, as they represent bastions of order and peace.
The sacred laws are:
Speak truth or be silent.
Honor your lord's wishes.
Defend your family esteem.
Take only your due.
Promote Just law.
=
So in his case, he's the supreme god because he represents everything from written law that damns you or protects you to methodology. He is in almost everything you do.
M.
I'd say the modern gods could use a god of marriage or hospitality. Think of the portfolios Zeus and Hera had to themselves in Greek mythology.
There are also probably one or a few gods who should be there based on the geographical quirks of whatever the region is like. For example, the Greeks developed a god of wine because grapes are a major crop in their area and wine became plentiful.
Marriage is a legal contract. Though you are correct, there should probably be one. I did think about gods for specific crops; right now there is one for herbs and vines as distinct from the god of "food plants"; all of which are different from the god of Agriculture.
There are currently 98 gods in the pantheon; if anyone's interested enough I could put them up here, along with a list of legal and illegal deities.
M.
Quote from: CheMarriage is a legal contract. Though you are correct, there should probably be one. I did think about gods for specific crops; right now there is one for herbs and vines as distinct from the god of "food plants"; all of which are different from the god of Agriculture.
There are currently 98 gods in the pantheon; if anyone's interested enough I could put them up here, along with a list of legal and illegal deities.
M.
I'd take a look.
I have a ton of religions, some that share deities. I'm always interested to see how religions progress and change.
Well, it wouldn't quite show "change" per se; it would be a list of the current school of thought regarding what can and cannot be worshiped, what "strata" they fall into and what domain they rule above.
Working on it now.
M.
Here be the link; yes, it's filefront, but it's also very small. Not very pretty, as it's mostly theory and musings with the actual list dominating like 4 pages.
http://www.filefront.com/16753539/GURPSWORLD%20Gods.pdf
Give it a go if you'd like. Feel free to put in your own thoughts here - maybe I'll even make your username (or a Germanized version) a god.
M.
Just a brief opinion of mine; I feel that too often in fictional religions, the Gods are always over-specialized and only given jurisdiction over a single niche concept or idea. In actuality, even Gods of the Classical Greeks like Poseidon were not bound to only a single patronage: he was first and foremost the God of horses and earthquakes, becoming the lord of the seas after his brothers decided to divide up the world between themselves.
So, don't feel like you have to be bound to narrow-minded deities, and always remember to provide some justification or story as to why the oversee what they do.
Quite probably right on that one, though how general would they be? God of crafting vs god of blacksmithing vs god of weaponsmithing.
M.
You know, it's probably a good idea I put the ending bit up here (with some revision):
The theory behind this is quite similar to the Germanic gods. The Germanic gods of my ancestors had two distinct categories: Fertility gods and gods of Violence. The Scandinavians called them Asir and Vanir, respectively. They warred and the Fertility gods lost, probably because they spent more time running around in the woods and banging each other than learning how to protect themselves. Some Historians and Archeologists have a theory that the culture originally only had the Fertility gods, and then they got kicked the crap out of by another culture with war gods as their primary pantheon. This may or may not be true for both reality and the culture in this setting. It is known that before the Romans began to push on the Germanic people, the Fertility gods were supreme; you found more shrines and sites dedicated to them than the warrior gods. When the Romans began fighting what would become something like their Vietnam, they began to invoke the War gods more and more, and an increased number of shrines to them show up in the Archeological record, as do sacrifices of war-goods in bogs.
This pantheon of 101 gods has a similar theory behind it. There's the Elder gods, who represent the raw forces of pre-existence. There are very few of them, and they consist of the usual 4 elements, metal and shadow. The Wilder gods represent primeval and pre-civilization concepts. They're natural things like animals, love and spiders, as well as early concepts like hunting and gathering. Notice most of the illegal gods are Wilder. The Civil gods represent the concepts and items (mostly concepts) of civilization, from Agriculture through to armies, battle and bees.
Another theory is to take a page from the Romans, who had a few billion damn gods. They had major gods (constant focus), other gods (situational) and lesser beings as well as "household spirits", which were the spirits of your ancestors. If I take a page from that, we will have major gods which rule over broader categories (or mostly the same ones now; what we see as a broad category might not be for my people) and "lesser spirits" that rule over specific things under that god. Reason for this is made clearer below, but think of a God of Fruit with a lesser spirit of Strawberries, for a simple example.
This pantheon is present in multiple regions outside of the Empire. Most of my writing is, however, all in the perspective of the so-called Empire (yet to be named), which is obviously based off the Holy Roman Empire. In the Empire, the god of Law has managed to become Top Dog, and rules through an edict similar to the ten commandments called Sacred Law. They lay down basic expectations of society, such as not killing and stealing. The wider teachings in the sacred texts are mostly musings from a philosopher from time past who was the Prophet of the current "religion". The god of Law is in nearly everything the Civil gods have. Literature has Law in grammar and style, Single Combat as Law in techniques, Brewing and Cooking have Law in methodology, etc. This reinforces him being Top Dog. He also serves a valuable social function: Chapels, Churches and Cathedrals to the god of Law are less places for mass and worship than functional Courthouses, record halls and meeting places. In spite of the god of Law being the Patron of the Empire, there isn't much you can sing and preach about him. Thus, outside of a few festivals you don't really go about doing the whole "worship" thing like we see with real life churches. You'd pray to him for Justice though, or a fair trial. He's also the only god permitted to have perminant structures in the Empire. You may by law create a shrine or worship spot for another god (assuming it's a legal one), but it has to be easy to take apart. Thus, no great temples to the Brewing god, but Brewers probably have a shelf with things dedicated to him '" he will lend you power to produce fantastic beer of the likes Che will enjoy drinking. Spaten lagers are clearly a gift from Braümeister. Only the god of Law has clergy, too; they're lawyers, judges and their aides. There's also a secret agency that is like a mix of the Inquisition and the FBI. Law indeed! And before I forget, Sacred Law isn't the be all end all; powers with the ability to invoke law can make their own legal codes (In the Empire, it's from the Emperor to the Counts to the Barons to the Landed Knights that can make law), but it cannot violate Sacred Law or the Teachings; your local Church can help you there.
The overarching theme is supposed to be the usual Man vs Nature, with (as I work on it) some Law vs Custom as well. Custom is what we do because it's what we do; Law is what we do because we're required to. Making Custom into Law might not have the best effect.
Naturally there are plenty of other gods (or lesser spirits) I could put in; someone's suggested one for Marriage and I'm pretty sure harvesting should be distinct from "gathering". Notice that some gods are oddly specific; there's one for "pests" and another for specifically spiders (though why I've made this an illegal god I've actually forgotten). Should probably be a few more devious gods like poison or the like; the list originally included only some broad basics (see post 1) and the more specific stuff just kind of grew from that. I'm open to any suggestions, however; if you think there should be a god for X, then unless it's unreasonable I can put in a god for X. It'll certainly help prevent this setting from just being another one with a handfull of gods in it, like the generic DnD setting (which has what, 12?).
Outside of the Empire, priorities are different. The Empire has a single patron god with churches everywhere for it, but the Westlands have city states, each with their own patron from the (generally) same pantheon. The Clannish foothills to the south, leading up the the Mountains, are more primal and put most of their belief in the Wilder gods, perhaps with a different or non-existent view on what can and cannot be worshiped. They may or may not reject the concept of the Civil gods completely; in the Empire (and probably the Westlands), the Civil gods gifted mankind with what they oversee, with all over creations being derived from their teachings. In the Foothills, maybe they believe that mankind created things from the natural gifts of the Wilder gods without some deity interfering (something like the Ancient Astronauts theory and discussion). Perhaps they reject the Civil gods as False Gods and make war on the "Civil" nations to free them from obvious oppression. Noble savages indeed.
The Eastlands...not decided. They're supposed to be a civil place, perhaps a fragment of the Empire that has split off. They might well follow the same faith as the Empire, where the belief in law and doing what is right BY law is supreme, or perhaps something similar. Maybe they retain the one patron god, but have shifted it to another, or even a few "equal" gods. Maybe this is what split it off?
Within the Empire (which is where most of my campaign will take place), I don't plan for there to be one overall "faith". Cults revolving around a different interpretation of the god of Law might abound (Law is not Justice; Man has corrupted the "true" teachings, etc), as well as people who outright reject his supremacy. Naturally you have your Conjurer cults who worship the god of Demons because they're trying to bind lesser demons to do their bidding; Witches (and their evil sisters called Hexxen) worship Wilder Gods will still paying some tribute to the Civil ones (gardening, writing and the like; I might base these witches off modern Wiccans). Clannish people have Druids which might actually acknowledge a few civil gods (real druids were nobles and academics as much as naturalists and priests; sometimes even more so).
Anyways this is my musings for now; feel free to pick it apart '" this is why we are here.
[note]I was using an open source word editor to type up the PDF and thus I didn't notice the spelling errors. Also, since I'm thinking about adding some clock punk stuff into the setting, there will be a few other gods added to the list. Now, I think some should diversify a bit, and I did start doing that a little (god of single combat AND swords, f.e.), but I'm not sure I want to go so far as that one goddess who is one of fountains and childbirth at the same time. The Civil gods are more akin to teachers imparting their special art onto mankind, and less a god in the literal sense, though they are still "gods" to these people.[/note]
M.
Ja, was auch immer.
Mankind was given fire not by the god of Fire, who cared little for the species of the earth, but the god of Love.
Moving amongst the wild masses of man he discovered that nights on their world were cold and dark, and was moved deeply by this. So he took to the realm of the Elder gods and used the help of the Trickster to glean the secret of fire from the Burning One, a gift of love to Mankind, who he cared for deeply (how can he not, he is a god that loves everything that can be loved). Forever more this is why the hearts of men burn with love and why the skin flushes and becomes warm in the presence of one's beloved; a reminder from the High Lover what he has done for us.
M.
Gotta love a romantic twist on the classic archtype of fire-theft. :)