The Campaign Builder's Guild

I am having a bit of trouble with Magick in Avayevnon.  I am currently using Nemesis from One Roll Engine as the base system, and while I may add or subtract specific details, the core of the mechanic is established.

In Nemesis, Spells are essentially self contained.  A character makes a Mind+[appropriate skill] check to learn the spell.  Once learned, a spell is cast by making an appropriate skill check, and succeeding at a madness check.  If both are successful, the spell is cast with its own dice pool.

Now, this is all well and good, but here is my issue:  I have different groups and different kinds of characters who can either do some form of magick or some form of miracle (in the saintly legends sense, not in the D&D miracle spell sense)

Orators: Closest in theory to the D&D cleric, but I am leaning towards the idea that they speak the word of their god, in a way that is linguistically unintelligible, but produces magickal effect.

Witch: Pagan spellcasters who serve the moon goddess Lugra.  Uses magick from a protective magick circle.

Druid: Pagan priests.  Capable of changing shape, bestowing geasa, and influencing the forces of nature.

Bard: Deriving their art from pagan tradition, but not necessarily pagan themselves, bards are familiar with the magickal songs

So, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.  However, since the Nemesis system is skill based and has no classes, there is a certain difficulty in differentiating the magick of each discipline.  How do I maintain some sense of different magickal arts, without implementing a class system?

My other thought considers the setting of Avayevnon as renaissance-inspired.  Renaissance thought tended to allow for only two types of magic-users: one was the witch, the other was the Faust/John Dee type of magician.  So far, I have not included a ceremonial magic-user type of character and magick.

If I were to add a ceremonial magician, there would be 5 "classes" of magick user in a classless, skill-based system.  How separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumHow separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

It all comes down to what kind of flavour you wish to enforce. Consider that all the types of magick need not necessarily be similar in terms of mechanics. You could have one dicipline be skill-based, another one trait-based, some that are dependant on faith and some that aren't. This could be a powerful way to drive the point that the different kinds of magicks are not different sides of the same coin, but entirely distinct things. It might be more difficult to design and balance this way, however.

Just surprised you have not included alchemist/cabalists, as AV is Ren. inspired.

And I will alsways lean towards magic being more of a skill, and many of these, indeed.

Quote from: LordVreegJust surprised you have not included alchemist/cabalists, as AV is Ren. inspired.

And I will alsways lean towards magic being more of a skill, and many of these, indeed.

Ah, well, cabalists essentially fall under the heading of ceremonial magick that I am toying with.

I had for a while considered having alchemy be its own class of semi-magick.  Right now I have it as a skill, but I was considering making it be a part of one of the others--most likely the ceremonial magician if any.  Alchemy will most definitely be present, I am just not exactly sure whether it will be it's own complete discipline, or fall under the heading of something else.

From a purely "Renaissance" standpoint, of the forms of magick and their associated occupations that have been proposed so far, Druidism is the least fitting. All of the rest have at least some ties to the renaissance.  Druidism fits in to a secondary aspect of the setting.  The exact importance of that secondary aspect is something I have gone back and forth about.

Much of the current setting is based in large cities.  Druids exist outside this usual setting.  The fact that they are so much, both geographically and idealistically removed from the majority of society makes for difficulties in believable character relationships that I am having trouble justifying.  If most adventures will be taking place in mainly soleist city-states where druids, by virtue of being pagan, would be unwelcome at best and hunted at worst, having one in a party makes little sense, and next to none if one of the characters happens to be a priest of the religion that outlaws them.  

But that is not an argument against druids existing within the setting, complete with their heathen magicks. All it is is an argument against Player Characters being allowed to be druids.

Quote from: GhostmanBut that is not an argument against druids existing within the setting, complete with their heathen magicks. All it is is an argument against Player Characters being allowed to be druids.

This is true, which complicates the dilemma.  Furthermore, if the setting is skill-based, I don't fully see the justification in allowing a skill to exist, but forbidding certain people from learning it.

You may well have considered this already, but have you thought about a strain of magic based around Rosicrucian mysticism?

For one, you should of course only be able to learn spells belonging to a specific discipline if you yourself belong to that discipline.
Orators seem to be not so much spell-based as they are entirely skill-based. Using their thaumaturgical/oratory skill they can influence the gods and the world itself. In a way, I'd say it would work almost like bluff in D&D; the more believable the miracle, the easier the skill check. But if they succeed on their skill roll, any miracle could be possible.
Witches and bards seem to more spell-based, learning each spell indvidually and then invoking them in different ways. So they could be differentiated just by giving them access to very different spells.
Druid, on the other hand, seems like it might work best as trait-based. It has some powerful abilities, but only a limited variety. At least the geasa and wild shape abilities could be traits, while the controlling nature could be skill- or spell-based.

Quote from: Ghostman

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumHow separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

It all comes down to what kind of flavour you wish to enforce. Consider that all the types of magick need not necessarily be similar in terms of mechanics. You could have one dicipline be skill-based, another one trait-based, some that are dependant on faith and some that aren't. This could be a powerful way to drive the point that the different kinds of magicks are not different sides of the same coin, but entirely distinct things. It might be more difficult to design and balance this way, however.

I am thinking more about this.  My hesitation in making different forms of magick function differently is mostly about complexity.  To begin with, I started having a lot of the magick be trait-based, at least in part.  Bards took traits for each magickal song they had, and then they could use them with a simple skill check any time.  I guess it was almost like buying access to a skill, or to an application of a skill.

Now I am thinking that they will most likely all involve taking one or more traits.  From that point, however, different forms of magick diverge.  Some may be strait-up spells, others may function like regular skills, and just do something magickal.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowFor one, you should of course only be able to learn spells belonging to a specific discipline if you yourself belong to that discipline.
Orators seem to be not so much spell-based as they are entirely skill-based. Using their thaumaturgical/oratory skill they can influence the gods and the world itself. In a way, I'd say it would work almost like bluff in D&D; the more believable the miracle, the easier the skill check. But if they succeed on their skill roll, any miracle could be possible.
Witches and bards seem to more spell-based, learning each spell indvidually and then invoking them in different ways. So they could be differentiated just by giving them access to very different spells.
Druid, on the other hand, seems like it might work best as trait-based. It has some powerful abilities, but only a limited variety. At least the geasa and wild shape abilities could be traits, while the controlling nature could be skill- or spell-based.

Orators I am thinking of as being very skill-based, but as I am working on them, I am thinking that they may not be completely in control; that by being the mouthpiece of their god, they are as much a vessel as an active participant.  But this distinction is mostly just fluff.  The fact that Orators are priests of their god means that they have more insight into the mind of their god than the lay person, but sometimes what they mean to achieve by channeling is not the will of their god.  Rules-wise however, this could be depicted as a failed roll.

Bards and Witches you pretty much got on nose.

For Druids, I was trying to base their powers on legendary abilities of Druids.  But the placing of Geasa and taking animal form seem to be the only attested magickal abilities that I have found.  Taking animal form seems a bit too flashy and overt for a setting I technically want to be low-magic.  I had put it there, but I am reconsidering.  It might be better to have them not be available to players.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumSo, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.  However, since the Nemesis system is skill based and has no classes, there is a certain difficulty in differentiating the magick of each discipline.  How do I maintain some sense of different magickal arts, without implementing a class system?

...

How separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but these are much the same issues I've grappled with in working on Jade FATE (distinct disciplines of magic in a classless system), and you may find it useful to piggyback on that a little bit. I'm not familiar with Nemesis or One Roll, but maybe some of my basic organization will transfer over.

I'm going to lay out a few basics only (so as not to derail your thread much), and if you're intrigued, I'll be glad to elaborate (or you can truck it on over to the wiki and see for yourself).

Distinguishing and Outlining Disciplines
FATE uses "stunts" as part of its mechanic-- these are special powers that build on top of the general skill/dice mechanic, and every character gets a small handful of stunts of their choice. (It's a common enough idea that has analogues in many systems-- D&D has pretty much the same thing in the form of "feats", frex.) The mechanics of each magic discipline look like a loose tree of stunts that use each other for prerequisites-- that's it.

Each discipline has one single "entry level" stunt, which is a prerequisite for all others. (For example, Kudan Mystics in Jade FATE must take the "Deep Listening" stunt first; all other Kudan Mysticism powers use Deep Listening as a prerequisite.) This very specific entry level power is useful because it lets me say a lot about the essence of the magic discpline: regardless of what flashy extra powers individual mages might (or might not) go on to take, all mages of [discipline] have [these powers] in common.

For this reason, the "entry level" magic stunts are often a potpourri of minor, varied powers (in contrast to later stunts, which are bigger, single-effect abilities). Having a variety of powers lets me use them to sketch out all the aspects I want a particular discipline to be about, and use the mechanics to help delineate that. (For example, I wanted Kudan Mystics to be wilderness-dwelling herbal healers, sensitive to life and the natural world, who can invigorate living things by temporarily infusing them with heightened vitality. So my Deep Listening stunt, which all Mystics must have, is a suite of three powers: a minor ability to sense living things, increased healing ability with natural herbs and remedies, and the power to breathe life into living things. Subsequent Kudan Mysticism stunts develop these minor powers into really impressive ones, or add more.)

Crossing the Streams (or not)
Sounds like in Avayevnon, it'd work fine to let story constraints limit dual-discipline spellcasters naturally. That is to say, rather than decreeing that "Druidism and Oratory just don't mix" (for example), you could let a single character learn both, provided that they adhere to two serious conditions: 1.) they have enough character-building points (or whatever) to cover both sets of powers, and 2.) the player can come up with a reason why the combination makes sense. I get the impression that it's hard, for various reasons, to get someone to teach druidism to someone who's already an orator, or to teach oration to somebody that's already a druid, so you can set the standard of what constitutes acceptable justification as high or as low as you'd like.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumSo, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.  However, since the Nemesis system is skill based and has no classes, there is a certain difficulty in differentiating the magick of each discipline.  How do I maintain some sense of different magickal arts, without implementing a class system?

...

How separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but these are much the same issues I've grappled with in working on Jade FATE (distinct disciplines of magic in a classless system), and you may find it useful to piggyback on that a little bit. I'm not familiar with Nemesis or One Roll, but maybe some of my basic organization will transfer over.

I'm going to lay out a few basics only (so as not to derail your thread much), and if you're intrigued, I'll be glad to elaborate (or you can truck it on over to the wiki and see for yourself).

Distinguishing and Outlining Disciplines
FATE uses "stunts" as part of its mechanic-- these are special powers that build on top of the general skill/dice mechanic, and every character gets a small handful of stunts of their choice. (It's a common enough idea that has analogues in many systems-- D&D has pretty much the same thing in the form of "feats", frex.) The mechanics of each magic discipline look like a loose tree of stunts that use each other for prerequisites-- that's it.

Each discipline has one single "entry level" stunt, which is a prerequisite for all others. (For example, Kudan Mystics in Jade FATE must take the "Deep Listening" stunt first; all other Kudan Mysticism powers use Deep Listening as a prerequisite.) This very specific entry level power is useful because it lets me say a lot about the essence of the magic discpline: regardless of what flashy extra powers individual mages might (or might not) go on to take, all mages of [discipline] have [these powers] in common.

For this reason, the "entry level" magic stunts are often a potpourri of minor, varied powers (in contrast to later stunts, which are bigger, single-effect abilities). Having a variety of powers lets me use them to sketch out all the aspects I want a particular discipline to be about, and use the mechanics to help delineate that. (For example, I wanted Kudan Mystics to be wilderness-dwelling herbal healers, sensitive to life and the natural world, who can invigorate living things by temporarily infusing them with heightened vitality. So my Deep Listening stunt, which all Mystics must have, is a suite of three powers: a minor ability to sense living things, increased healing ability with natural herbs and remedies, and the power to breathe life into living things. Subsequent Kudan Mysticism stunts develop these minor powers into really impressive ones, or add more.)

Crossing the Streams (or not)
Sounds like in Avayevnon, it'd work fine to let story constraints limit dual-discipline spellcasters naturally. That is to say, rather than decreeing that "Druidism and Oratory just don't mix" (for example), you could let a single character learn both, provided that they adhere to two serious conditions: 1.) they have enough character-building points (or whatever) to cover both sets of powers, and 2.) the player can come up with a reason why the combination makes sense. I get the impression that it's hard, for various reasons, to get someone to teach druidism to someone who's already an orator, or to teach oration to somebody that's already a druid, so you can set the standard of what constitutes acceptable justification as high or as low as you'd like.

This stuff sounds good, and I looked up some of the FATE stuff, and some of it would fit rather nicely.  The Entry Level "Stunt" idea is pretty close to something I was considering already.  I think what I may do is have a trait that opens up access to a certain discipline, but that spells within that discipline do not necessarily require traits to learn.  

I think I've had a bit of a breakthrough.  Taking a bit of inspiration from some of the FATE/SotC stuff LC has mentioned/linked to, I have come up with some neat ideas and solutions to some of my problems.  More on that later.

In other news, I think I have also made progress on what to do for the sort of Druid-type powers.  The Geas I like, and I will keep.  I will also add in powers relating to runes.  For the concept of Shape-shifting, I have decided not to nix it per se, but to shift to a power that, rather than taking on the literal shape of an animal, temporarily grants the druid-type aspects of the animal.  Instead of becoming an eagle and flying, they take on an aspect of the eagle, and can glide downward from great height without harming themselves.  Instead of turning into a bear and mauling their enemies, they take on an aspect of the bear and feel their strength increase.

QuoteI think I've had a bit of a breakthrough. Taking a bit of inspiration from some of the FATE/SotC stuff LC has mentioned/linked to, I have come up with some neat ideas and solutions to some of my problems. More on that later.

For the concept of Shape-shifting, I have decided not to nix it per se, but to shift  to a power that, rather than taking on the literal shape of an animal, temporarily grants the druid-type aspects of the animal. Instead of becoming an eagle and flying, they take on an aspect of the eagle, and can glide downward from great height without harming themselves. Instead of turning into a bear and mauling their enemies, they take on an aspect of the bear and feel their strength increase. [/quote]This is pretty neat. Seems like a great way to translate less flashy versions of traditional types of druidy powers to a low-magic world.

Since druids are (I gather) sort of "foreign" to the cityfolk of Avayevnon, I think the subtlety of this "animal aspect" magic could do a lot to play into peoples' fear of them (if that direction is where you want to take this). If a druid still looks like a regular person while animal powers are upon them, how could you ever know how dangerous they are at any moment, or whether to watch for a cobra's poison, a lion's strength, a swooping owl's speed, etc.?

LC = GOOD INFLUENCE.
I always knew it.  

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI am having a bit of trouble with Magick in Avayevnon.  I am currently using Nemesis from One Roll Engine as the base system, and while I may add or subtract specific details, the core of the mechanic is established.

In Nemesis, Spells are essentially self contained.  A character makes a Mind+[appropriate skill] check to learn the spell.  Once learned, a spell is cast by making an appropriate skill check, and succeeding at a madness check.  If both are successful, the spell is cast with its own dice pool.

Now, this is all well and good, but here is my issue:  I have different groups and different kinds of characters who can either do some form of magick or some form of miracle (in the saintly legends sense, not in the D&D miracle spell sense)

Orators: Closest in theory to the D&D cleric, but I am leaning towards the idea that they speak the word of their god, in a way that is linguistically unintelligible, but produces magickal effect.

Witch: Pagan spellcasters who serve the moon goddess Lugra.  Uses magick from a protective magick circle.

Druid: Pagan priests.  Capable of changing shape, bestowing geasa, and influencing the forces of nature.

Bard: Deriving their art from pagan tradition, but not necessarily pagan themselves, bards are familiar with the magickal songs

So, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.  However, since the Nemesis system is skill based and has no classes, there is a certain difficulty in differentiating the magick of each discipline.  How do I maintain some sense of different magickal arts, without implementing a class system?

My other thought considers the setting of Avayevnon as renaissance-inspired.  Renaissance thought tended to allow for only two types of magic-users: one was the witch, the other was the Faust/John Dee type of magician.  So far, I have not included a ceremonial magic-user type of character and magick.

If I were to add a ceremonial magician, there would be 5 "classes" of magick user in a classless, skill-based system.  How separate should spells for each kind of magick be?  What are the implications of characters being allowed to know magick originating with certain "classes" of people?  If Magick is a trait, it becomes rather like a class system.  If magick is a skill (or multiple skills), are the different types of magick enough of an issue maintain in a proper form?  How much fluidity should there be in learning magick and spells?  Should I leave the open-ended skill system alone, having spells of all sorts be open to anyone bright enough to learn them, appealing to the ideal of the Renaissance Man?  Or should magick be different from faith to faith?

Something that I did for Haveneast before the setting died was add the flavor/mechanic that certain types of magic required different foci to function (or at least function easily); something similar might work for you to add a little more diversity between the types. I can't remember what foci were tied to what kinds of magic in Haveneast's case except for a mask being required to practice necromancy, but you might find it a good addition regardless.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumIn Nemesis, Spells are essentially self contained.  A character makes a Mind+[appropriate skill] check to learn the spell.  Once learned, a spell is cast by making an appropriate skill check, and succeeding at a madness check.  If both are successful, the spell is cast with its own dice pool.

Now, this is all well and good, but here is my issue:  I have different groups and different kinds of characters who can either do some form of magick or some form of miracle (in the saintly legends sense, not in the D&D miracle spell sense)

...

So, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.  However, since the Nemesis system is skill based and has no classes, there is a certain difficulty in differentiating the magick of each discipline.  How do I maintain some sense of different magickal arts, without implementing a class system?

* They do different things.
* The magical 'fuel' works differently (one type costs physical Strength, another depends on virtuous action, a third has no cost but terrible consequences for failed rolls)
* The requirements to have the skill are different (only intelligent aristocrats can learn D&D-style academic magic, only peasants can be wise women, only evil people can be witches)

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumSo, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.

Any medieval or fantasy game would be likely to have some kind of distinction between, for example, fighters and thief/rogues, or between warrior-type and thief-type skills.

However, since magic isn't real, there's an infinite number of ways to divide it up, none more logical or realistic than any other.

So why have magic that resembles D&D?

Some examples of alternative systems:

* colours (or you could include the 'metals' and 'furs' of heraldry)
* the five senses
* astrological signs
* classical elements - either European or Chinese
* types of animals
* good and evil (or law and chaos)
* the four humours
* the seven deadly sins (and/or corresponding virtues)
* each attribute in the game has a related system of magic
* each wizard is the priest of a different god, with appropriate spells
* letters of the alphabet (for a light-hearted theme. For a more serious theme, use the Greek or Hebrew alphabets and their existing symbolism)
* there is no seperate study of magic. 'Spells' are just skills developed to a super-human standard.
* Sympathetic vs contagious magic

Quote from: Age of Fable

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumSo, a number of these are the names of (or are analogous to) PC classes in D&D.

Any medieval or fantasy game would be likely to have some kind of distinction between, for example, fighters and thief/rogues, or between warrior-type and thief-type skills.

However, since magic isn't real, there's an infinite number of ways to divide it up, none more logical or realistic than any other.

So why have magic that resembles D&D?

Some examples of alternative systems:

* colours (or you could include the 'metals' and 'furs' of heraldry)
* the five senses
* astrological signs
* classical elements - either European or Chinese
* types of animals
* good and evil (or law and chaos)
* the four humours
* the seven deadly sins (and/or corresponding virtues)
* each attribute in the game has a related system of magic
* each wizard is the priest of a different god, with appropriate spells
* letters of the alphabet (for a light-hearted theme. For a more serious theme, use the Greek or Hebrew alphabets and their existing symbolism)
* there is no seperate study of magic. 'Spells' are just skills developed to a super-human standard.
* Sympathetic vs contagious magic

I don't have them specifically to pay homage to or out of any loyalty to D&D.  It happens that the Renaissance influence supports the idea of having witchcraft as well as educated sorcery, and a priest-type that is able to combat demons and/or serve as a sort of Inquisitor character.  

Of the alternative types of magic you provide,the four humours/sympathetic vs. contagious magic sound the most appropriate.  That said, I have the four humors as a basis for magic in another project.  Sympathetic and Contagious forms of magick might be worth looking into for some of the witchcraft stuff though.

If you want to keep people from taking two similar skills, there are two things to keep in mind.

1)Finite skill points.
2)Diminishing returns for redundancy.

I might add 3)In-world logic in your case.

If players have their choice of how to spend their skills, it is almost always best to max out a few things with very different purposes (one defense, one offense, one mobility, one social, and so on) than to dabble in things with similar purposes. Likewise, organizations necessary for teaching (even if their only members are a master and an apprentice working word of mouth) do best if they have a singular purpose, and trim whatever is unnecessary.

If you want to boost 1, you're already there by splitting the skill. If it's not enough, there can be prerequisites like having a higher (whatever) lore skill than the associated magic skill. In my case, I just went with two prereqs for each of my best magics: training in one lore and training in ritual magic (the basis for all the rest).

If you want to boost 2, scale the power of each school of magic with its individual skill. Additionally, workarounds make "cross-classing" redundant. In 3.x D&D, multiclass mages were a bad idea, and few played them for the first reason. In my game, you can pick low level spells from other disciplines, but you have to be higher level to do so... so there's a little mix and match, while people still know whose side they're on and where they get their magic.

For boosting 3, just have people learn spells in game, and keep NPC gurus of each type separated somehow. As in my game where fiends will only teach you black magic and celestials will only teach you white magic. Or as in Guildschool, where your skills are based on who you work for.

All that being said, there's nothing terribly wrong with a dabbler in many fields. As long as skills are broken up, finite, and a little redundant, it'll be neither game-breaking, nor all that common.

Quick thing done on little sleep. Sorry if stuff's been addressed.

This is all subject to revision or complete scrapping, but at present, this is what I have:

Traits: These represent things that differentiate characters, apart from their skills.
Talents: A sub-category of Traits, which denotes abilities possessed by the character that could not be achieved by a normal person.
Spells and Miracles: Neither a Talent, nor a skill exactly, spells and miracles work some tangible form of magick on the world through complex ritual, often involving ritual, liturgical, and sometimes sacrificial components.

 [table=Traits][tr][td] Trait [/td]   [td]Prerequisites[/td][/tr][tr][td] Absent-Minded[/td] [td]   Gnome[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] A Rational Explanation[/td] [td]   Effigy or Gnome[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Backup[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Battle Trance[/td] [td]   Gorim[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Children of the Twilight[/td] [td]   Changeling[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Clanking[/td] [td]   Effigy[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Expert[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Fleet of Foot[/td] [td]   Changeling[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Forest Born[/td] [td]   Duirdin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Frail[/td] [td]   Gnome[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Genius[/td] [td]   Gnome[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Golden Eye[/td] [td]   Ithai[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Good Childhood[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Gruff[/td] [td]   [td]Gorim[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Guildcraft[/td]   [td]Ithai[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] HAR[/td]   [td]Effigy[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Ignore Decapitation[/td] [td]   Duirdin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Keen Senses[/td] [td]   Changeling[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] LAR[/td] [td]   Gorim[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Light Armor Proficiency[/td] [td]   Coordination 3+[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Mechanical[/td] [td]   Effigy[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Money[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Old as the Trees[/td] [td]   Duirdin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Pierce the Mists[/td] [td]   Changeling[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Regeneration[/td] [td]   Duirdin[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Religious[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Resilient[/td] [td]   Ithai or Body 4+[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Extra Wound Boxes[/td] [td]   Resilient[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Resources[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Slow[/td] [td]   Duirdin or Effigy, Chosen at character creation[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Strong[/td] [td]   Effigy, Chosen at character creation[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Sturdy[/td] [td]   Gorim or Ithai, Chosen at character creation[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] The Law[/td] [td]   [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Thick-fingered[/td] [td]   Ithai[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Ungainly[/td] [td]   Effigy, Chosen at character creation[/td][/tr]
[tr][td] Veteran[/td] [td]   3 Hardened Notches in Violence[/td][/tr]
[/table]  

 [table=Talents][tr][td]  Talents[/td][td]   Prerequisites[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Alchemy[/td][td]   Herbology, Minerology[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Artificer[/td][td]   Occult Skill, Gadgeteer[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Bardic Music[/td][td]   Occult Skill, Perform (Song), willing teacher[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Casting the lots[/td][td]   Occult skill[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Channel[/td][td]   Occult Skill, willing teacher[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Exorcise[/td][td]   Channel, Religious[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Expert Parry[/td][td]   Martial Arts (Fencing) [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Fleche[/td][td]   Expert Parry[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Frightful Presence[/td][td]   Channel, Religious[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Gadgeteer[/td][td]   Engineering, Craft[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Herbology[/td][td]   Occult Skill[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Hypnotism[/td][td]   Occult Skill[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Lay on Hands[/td][td]   Channel, Religious[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Minerology[/td][td]   Occult Skill[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Occult Skill[/td][td]   Willing teacher[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Riposte[/td][td]   Expert Parry[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Second Sight[/td][td]   Occult skill[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  See the Thread[/td][td]   Second Sight[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Size up[/td][td]   Expert Parry[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Shift[/td][td]   Channel[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Smite Heretic[/td][td]   Channel, Religious[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song ofCalumny[/td][td]   Song of Laughter[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song of Horror[/td][td]   Song of Panic[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song of Laughter[/td][td]   Bardic Music[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song of Panic[/td][td]   Bardic Music[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song of Rest[/td][td]   Bardic Music[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Song of Sleep[/td][td]   Song of Rest[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Trump Gadget[/td][td]   Gadgeteer[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]  Wall of Steel[/td][td]   Expert Parry[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Alchemy
Prerequisite: Herbology, Minerology
Effect: You have access to the Alchemy skill, and as long as you have a workshop or a laboratory with appropriate tools, you can create substances, oils, infusions, and potions that can alter matter in some form.  You need to have a furnace, beakers, boilers, burners, scales, and stocks of plants and minerals to use as your ingredients.  If you lack these, you suffer -2d on your Alchemy roll.  Having these in distinguished quality can add +1d to your roll.  

Artificer (4d)
Prerequisites: Gadgeteer, Occult Skill
Effect: Having been trained both in the Art of invention, and in the Occult Arts, you are able to combine technology with magick, creating devices called 'Artifices.'  An Artifice is a gadget that makes use of some magickal property.  It can either incorporate a magickal artifact, or a caecilium core, or it may in fact use such as its base, and enhance it with technology.

Casting Lots

Channel

Crippling Strike (3d)
'That stab wound still bothering you?'
Prerequisite: Sneak Attack
Effect: You can strike with such precision that your blows cause serious damage to muscles and tendons. A target damaged by your Sneak Attack loses 1 point of body. This returns at a rate of 1 point a day.

Danger Sense
'Something is amiss.'
Prerequisites: Sight skill, Listen skill
Effects: Whether you have some supernatural precognition or just heightened senses, you always seem to know subconsciously when danger is near.  When you are ambushed you can spend a Fortune Point to make a full defense action at +1 width.

Exorcise (3d)
Prerequisite: Channel
Effect: You can banish demons, spirits, undead, and other enemies of Sol. To exorcise a demon in possession of an Anthropic, make a Command+Intimidate against the demon's Empathy+Resist, if your height meets or exceeds the demon's the demon must leave the body of the Anthropic. A disembodied spirit, an undead creature, or a materialized demon may be similarly banished. If your roll meets or exceeds their Empathy+Equilibrium, they must flee.

Expert Parry (3d)
Prerequisite: Martial Arts (Fencing)
Effect: At the beginning of the encounter, pick one enemy. You can attempt to block attacks from this enemy while still performing other actions (as long as you have your sword in hand), though at a -1d penalty.

Fleche, or The Arrow of Steel (3d)
Prerequisite: Riposte
Effect: When you lunge at your opponent, you don't just lunge, you launch.  Imitating the arrow, you throw yourself blade first into danger.  By spending a fortune point, you can launch at your target, granting you +1 initiative and +1 killing damage at the expense of your defenses.  For the next round, any attempts you make to defend yourself are taken at a -1d penalty.  If your attack misses, the bonuses to initiative and damage are wasted, and you still suffer the -1d penalty.

Frightful Presence
'Know'st thou this face?'
Prerequisites: Channel, Inquisitor mask
Effect: You have been awarded the rank of Inquisitor in the church of Sôl, and have been granted the ability to strike the fear of God into your enemies.  While you wear the faceless mask of the Inquisitor, you may expend a fortune point to gain for the rest of the encounter an aura of fear with a Helplessness rating equal to your Command stat.  Those who fail equilibrium must either flee or freeze, stricken with helpless horror.

Gadgeteer (5d)
'Look at this beauty!  I made it myself!'
Prerequisite: Engineering, Craft
Effect: You are capable of inventing a device.  You may craft a personal device, based on existing concepts, which has up to three improvements on the original.  These may simply make the device more efficient or effective, or they might add an additional purpose besides the original purpose of the base design.  Building the device still requires one or more successful Craft checks.
   
Herbology (3d)
'A tincture of mandrake will fix you right up.'
Prerequisites: Occult Skill, character must have a willing teacher
Effect: You have been trained in the mystical properties of plants.  Your skill is such that your remedies may often surpass those of the studied doctor.  In the wilderness, you may roll Occult instead of Survival to find things, and you may also roll Occult instead of First Aid and Medicine to treat wounds and illnesses.

Hide in Plain Sight
'They'll never even see me there.'
Prerequisites: Stealth 5d+
Effects: you are so adept at avoiding the notice of others that they can look right at you and not see you.  You can roll stealth anywhere, at any time, under almost any circumstances.  You cannot hide in this manner from someone who is already watching you.

Hypnotism (3d)
'Look into my eyes.'
Prerequisite: Occult Skill, 1d+ Meditation
Effect: You can use your Occult skill to put a willing participant into a trance.  This can be used to unlock a buried memory, or to allow a hypnotized character to ignore distractions, such as a phobia.  It affords a very minor influence on the mind.  The hypnotist can place suggestions in the mind, but   they cannot make someone do something contrary to their nature.

Lay on Hands

Light Armor Specialist (1d)
Prerequisite: Coordination 3+
Effect: You know how to make best use of light armor. When wearing light armor, treat the LAR as one higher than it actually is. You cannot use Heavy Armor.

Minerology

Occult Skill (3d)
'Allu Voltare musquivet cadoben!'
Prerequisites: 1 Hardened or failed notch in Supernatural Meter
Effect: You are trained in magickal rituals, in bizarre techniques for contact with other planes, or some manner of '˜hidden' knowledge and practice.  You have access to the Occult skill and its applications.

Precise Strike
'I bet you I can get his kidney from here.'
Prerequisites: Coordination 3+, a weapon skill
Effects: You are exactingly precise with your chosen weapon.  With this weapon, you may add an expert die to your roll.  If you expend a Destiny Point, you may add a trump die instead.  You can take this talent multiple times, but each must be for a different weapon.

Riposte (4d)
Prerequisite: Expert Parry
Effect: Any time you block an attack, you may make an immediate attack against that enemy, taking a -1d penalty on the attack roll

Runes
'Ansuz fehu sowilo.'
Prerequisites: Occult Skill, willing teacher
Effects: Your occult knowledge of magickal runes allows you to use them to swing fortune in your favor.  By scribing appropriate runes (Mind+Occult) you can add a trump die to an action specified   at the casting of the runes.

Second Sight
'I see things others can't.'
Prerequisite: Occult Skill, character must have a willing teacher
Effect: You are trained to see the flow of mystical energy.  In the presence of something mystical ormagickal, you may use your Second Sight and make an Occult roll to detect and 'sense' it.  With a high enough roll, you can determine the nature and the source of these energies.

See the Thread (4d)
Prerequisite: Second Sight
Effect: You can see the threads of magic as people cast spells. Treat Sense as 1 higher than normal for purposes of declaring actions against spellcasters. You can also see people who are Sojourning as a faint glimmer of a body attached to a string. Make a Sight check to see them at a difficulty equal to the height of their Mind+Occult roll used to perform the Astral projection. If you see someone astral projecting, you can attempt to cut the thread connecting their physical and astral bodies with an Athame or a consecrated weapon. Someone whose tether has been broken cannot reenter their bodies without a special ritual.

Size-Up (2d)
Prerequisite: Empathy 4+
Effect: You have been trained to know your opponent, and to pick up on their subtle cues and 'tells,' such that you can predict what they will do.  Against an opponent you are familiar with, you may use your Empathy stat instead of your Sense for purposes of declaring actions.

Shifting
'Eagle's talon, falcon's wing, bear's strength, lion's roar.'
Prerequisites: Channel
Effects: You can tap into an animal spirit, invoking in you the aspect of the animal, providing you   with special abilities.  By expending a point of Destiny, you gain bonuses to relevant stats or skills, or   even abilities that are altogether new to you, such as s gliding form of flight from the aspect of a falcon.
Bull's Head: You become 'bullheaded' and may add a trump die to all Resist and Equilibrium rolls.
Falcon's Wing: Your bones seem to hollow out when the falcon is invoked, and your arms act almost   like wings.  You can glide downward in a gentle slope from almost any height without harming yourself.
Eagle's Talon: Your fingernails thicken and elongate into claws.  Your unarmed brawling and martial arts attacks are made at +1 killing damage for the duration.

Sneak Attack (1d-10d)
'Boo.' *hurk*-
Prerequisites: Stealth skill, Precise Strike
Effects: When you attack a foe who is taken by surprise or unable to defend themselves, you can add +1d to damage per point bought.  You can buy one point of Sneak Attack per point of Coordination you possess.

A Touch of Destiny (3d)
'I see greatness in your future.'
Prerequisite: None
Effects: You gain one extra Destiny point per day.  This cannot be regained through meditation or by any means other than rest.  Can be taken multiple times.  Its effects stack.

Trump Gadget
'Lucky for us, I happen to have brought just the thing for this exact situation!'
Prerequisite: Gadgeteer
Effect: As a compulsive inventor, you are likely to carry any number of gadgets and devices on your person at any given time.  Any time you could reasonably have access to your equipment, you may, by spending a character point, invoke a previously undeclared one-time-use device.  At the GM's discretion this may bypass or provide a bonus on whatever challenge you may be facing.

Wall of Steel (3d)
Prerequisite: Expert Parry
Effect: When you devote your turn to dodging or blocking, add +1 to the width of your roll [Stacks with +2 width for initiative bonus from Martial Arts (Fencing)].

Spells
Absolve
Angelology
Binding
Blessing
Break Spell

Call Familiar
Prerequisite Skill: Occult
Other Requirements: Pentagram of Power (optional), athame, salt
Madness Check: Intensity 5, 7 or 9 in Unnatural (summoning a familiar spirit). See table.
Spell Affects: Single target.
Activation Time: 5 - width minutes or hours depending on what is being called.
Dice Pool: 5d+1td.
Description: With this spell a witch intends to summon a familiar spirit.  The exact nature of the familiar can vary; the height of the roll determines what responds to the call.  Note that when casting you have a choice of how 'far' you want to push the spell, since the trump die gives some measure of control.

Height	Familiar Spirit
4 or less	Nothing Responds
5 or more	Familiar from the Material plane, such as a house cat, frog, or monkey
7 or more	Familiar from the Sojourn (incorporeal ghost-like entity)
9 or more	Creature with near deific power'"an angel or a demon

Once a familiar has responded to the call it must be bound to the caster's command. Binding a creature to the caster's will is a Command+Intimidation check. Resisting binding is an Empathy+Resist check. Wise casters of this spell will set the trump die to the height of the desired familiar. There is a risk that the creature will bind the caster to its will instead; the caster should take protection against that eventuality by only 'calling' from within a Pentagram of Power (see below).

Consecrate
Curse Tablet
Enchant Object
Geas
Graven Image

Pentagram of Power
Prerequisite Skill: Occult
Other Requirements: A sacrifice (the bigger the better); marking material such as chalk, paint, etc.
Madness Check: Intensity 3 in Self (or 6 or 7 for sacrifice of an animal or a person).
Spell Affects: Target area.
Activation Time: 5 - width hours.
Dice Pool: 3d for cakes and wine, 6d for an animal sacrifice, 7d for a human sacrifice.
Description: Create a pentagram in a circle surrounded by four circles, then imbue the design with power by sacrifice. Roll the spell's dice pool. A successful roll allows you to add 1td to your Command+Intimidation and Empathy+Resist checks when binding summoned familiar spirits. If the spell roll's width is 4 or greater you gain +2 td instead.

Pentagram of Protection
Prerequisite Skill: Occult.
Other Requirements: An effigy shield and sword; marking material such as chalk, paint, etc.
Madness Check: Unnatural 3
Spell Affects: Target area.
Activation Time: 5 - width rounds.
Dice Pool: 6d
Description: You create a pentagram in a circle surrounded by four circles, then charge the design with the effigy sword and shield. Roll the spell's dice pool. A successful roll gives you a HAR of the height of your roll and adds 1td to your Body+Health and Empathy+Resist checks for the next width minutes. If the spell roll's width is 4 or greater you gain +2 td instead.

Poison
Poppet
Runes

Sojourning
Prerequisite Skill: Occult
Requirements: A casting area of five concentric circles of fire or phosphorus.
Madness Check: Unnatural 3
Spell Affects: Caster.
Activation Time: 5 '" width minutes.
Dice Pool: 6d
Description: This spell consists of a litany that must be intoned within the casting area. The caster's spirit leaves its sleeping body and travels the Sojourn.
Talisman
Trap the Soul
Voices from Beyond