The Campaign Builder's Guild

For me, I look for what other people need help on and take on a bit of their workload (such as flavor writing for other people's creations); it usually helps reignite the creativity engines fairly quickly. Of course, I'm creating almost constantly, and that's how I live. So I need such tricks to avoid burnout.

Quote from: Snargash Moonclaw"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance." (It's a notion I find appealing as well - buried a little more in the details of this religion.)

That's funny. The quote is almost precisely something I wrote in some fiction I toyed with a while back.

The Lyricists seem very similar to the priesthood of the goddess I mentioned, in fact. Weird.

As far as the gods are concerned, I'm dropping pretty much all but superficial resemblances to core deities. For instance, the Lolth-analogue will retain a history of being evil and demon-allied before her shift of viewpoint, though I have divorced the drow (d'ruh) from elven origins and Amael is not Lolth in any other fashion (I retain also the spider-link, though it is now more crustacean-like because of the aquatic idiom).

For the cosmology, it is largely the Great Wheel; that, however, is modified heavily by the material at Dicefreaks, which I like much better. The cosmology is also somewhat peripheral at this time, because the Shearing has rendered it closed off. For the most part, the only important planes are the transitives: Astral, Ethereal, Shadow, and Annwyn (once I get that last one straightened out a bit). I purposely dropped the Elemental Planes, not because they're unusable but because I wanted elemental powers to remain potent (due to the madness caused by the Shearing) in spite of a cut off from the planes. The Outer Planes can be said to be manifesting locally among the fiendish bastions to a degree.

Quote from: Snargash Moonclaw[blockquote[Cavalier de Corvus]the goddess of dance is now the goddess of war[/blockquote]

Are you paraphrasing Confucius? :fencing:

Not that I'm aware of. Just a notion I found rather appealing.

While I have no deep analysis about the mechanics of belief, which I think are sufficiently expostulated above, I tend to make divine/cosmic beings very active in my worlds. The reason for this is simple: it's harder to pull off without a heavy overdose of deus ex machina, but it also invokes a great deal less paperwork on the PCs' level. They already know there's someone watching out for them (whether to help them along or to wreak unforgivable harm on them), and they don't have to have deep theological discussions about how Bob the Evil Cleric gets his spells. Don't get me wrong, I love theology, and I'm deeply opinionated about it'¦in real life. I find it fascinating to write and create it, but in play I personally try to stay away from the inevitable bogging down of the game that occurs.

As far as world-building is concerned, divine mechanics are usually the first thing I hammer out. Gods and immortal beings are factors that have a direct and powerful impact on any setting (whether or not they are active)

Here are some examples:

Asilikos '" For those who have looked at my setting here, you'll notice my list of divinities is most of what I've posted so far, and looking at the summary you'll see why. The disaster that tears apart my world was touched off by a war between such beings, and worsened by their attempts to end the conflict. It also, however, birthed new deities that walk among mortals and may be the most likely to end the suffering of the world (one way or another). There, the presence of the gods and their fiendish and celestial rivals and enemies directly shapes the policies of their servants. But at the same time, the catastrophe of the Shearing also limits them to a mortality of their own, and keeps them from affecting the actions of individuals and small groups, in whose hands lie destinies beyond immortal ken.

As an aside, I don't subscribe to huge pantheons, and tend not to make use of animistic faiths with numerous spirits and '˜little divinities'; take Forgotten Realms, for example. There are literally hundreds of established deities on Toril, all fairly active. That's too much interference, and with each maintaining sects of his/her/its own that's tens of thousands of little dots of influence moving about the world. It seems almost impossible that any god there has any way of getting things done with so many potential meddlers milling about (power levels aside, the rules implicitly make it out that even a greater god would have trouble with so many lesser powers interfering).

Wyctil '" As with Asilikos, a great disaster is just being overcome. In this case, the unearthing of a mighty artifact has devastated the divine ranks at the top, forcing the demigods and quasi-deities to step into shoes way too big for them. For instance, the goddess of dance is now the goddess of war, and three '˜councils' of these small gods-made-big try to sort out their new authorities while also trying to contain an invasion by the ethergaunts.

Aphon'anak '" This one does focus on a theological disagreement between the gods of the common races and the draconic gods. Both sides claim to have arisen first and created the world, which has trickled into a massive war between mortals (okay, so I like using huge wars as a campaign backdrop, if not the main event). The gods actively take to the field to lead their armies, and mortals have begun to mutate and become resistant to the powers of their patrons, and mortals take their gods' presence for granted. This is an example of the opposite end of the '˜active divine' argument; familiarity breeds contempt.

In all cases, I never, never use real world religions as more than an outline for any pantheon. Asilikos, for example, uses the basic relationships present in the Norse, Egyptian, and Greek pantheons as the skeleton for three separate groups of powers, but none of these three have been crafted to resemble those inspirations in any other way (hopefully soon I can get that posted, too).


To get back to the main question, I believe that deities that are actively involved in their worshipers' lives are more interesting than distant ones. They have more story potential, both in the ways they interact with mortals and how they interact with each other.

Quote from: LordVreeg

Quote from: Knight of RavensHmm, nothing of mine compares. I've been stuck in Egypt all year with a horde of drooling genetic defectives (and I'm being kind). I've had neither time to build nor time to play. I need a heavy dose of both when I get home in the next week or two. I've been toying with running a classic 2nd edition D&D module (updated to 3.5) while I continue to bring my setting up to par. Just need to find some vic...I mean, players...

We're just happy you've taken some times to post...Let us know how it goes.  Which module?

I've been hankering to run Return to the Tomb of Horrors since it came out (goodness, 12 years ago or so?), but I'd easily switch out for Rod of Seven Parts, Dragon Mountain, or maybe even something Planescape-y like Dead Gods. Point is, I've got this huge library spanning all editions, and the past few years' hijinx haven't swept players my way. I have a load of time off coming up, so it's time to hunt for a new group.

Drizzt, you're just realizing that? I was clued in as soon as what's his name (the character Jeremy Irons played in Eragon) started talking about how Emperor Myxyxpytlk or whatever his name is came to power (in the book, mind you). Sure, most of the Star Wars story is based on pretty standard plot devices and character archetypes, but Paolini had to use them all in the exact same places. Turned me off almost instantly, though I managed to struggle through to the end of the book.

EDIT: And mind you, Star Wars is rapidly becoming an epithet in my vocabulary thanks to Episodes I-III.

@Nomadic Dwarf: They may be goofy, but they are productive. I haven't seen any of that vaunted dwarven beer or a rune-engraved battleaxe made by dwarven hands, but I have eaten the Keebler cookies. And until those dwarves manage so great a feat (that beer better be pretty darn good to beat fudge stripes), flashing Keebler as a counter makes those bearded busibodies still look pretty pale.

@Llum: Nuada/Nuala and their ilk from Hellboy 2 were more fey, like the 4e eladrins (at the very least; I personally would say they were more like 2e/3e eladrins, which is where I wish they had stayed instead of being turned into gray elves with different flavor). They were cool, but sadly don't fall into the right category.

Granted. But I think Arwen and Galadriel made up for the weird push to androgyny all the male elves suffered from in those movies (with the exception of Elrond, whose receding hairline helped secure his masculinity).

Hmm, nothing of mine compares. I've been stuck in Egypt all year with a horde of drooling genetic defectives (and I'm being kind). I've had neither time to build nor time to play. I need a heavy dose of both when I get home in the next week or two. I've been toying with running a classic 2nd edition D&D module (updated to 3.5) while I continue to bring my setting up to par. Just need to find some vic...I mean, players...

Quote from: Elemental_DwarfI counter you with Sienna Guillory, Elf Maiden from Eragon.

Doesn't work. I read the book, and swore I'd never, ever watch the movie or read anything else by Paolini ever again. You'd have better luck with a Norda (you know, she was an elf character in some sword and sorcery movie with Jeremy Irons and a narcoleptic Thora Birch) counter, to which my reply would be at least her presence had some slight dignity compared to 'Elwood Gutworthy'...or pretty much anyone else's, for that matter.

(snakefing) Well, in my example above, I mention asking for character background. While it can be a little intimidating for some new players, the fact is that if they're willing to provide such, they've already taken the biggest step in the direction of taking initiative and being involved. Holding their interest is less burdensome then (IMO).

Of course, I may just be lucky.

Granted! Your hero kills you with a rusty beer can, then lets the insulted half-dragon minotaur ninjas beat your corpse into a bloody pulp.

I wish GRRM would finish A Dance with Dragons right now!

Very true, Vreeg. To amend what I wrote above slightly, even if I've created the world largely without input I will guage reactions and poll the players during character creation and in the fluff intro part of the first adventure to find out what grabs their interest. Do they want to stay in the starting city/town/tavern for a while, or do they want to explore an ancient ruin I mentioned only as a bit of afterthought flavor? Does Player A want to become a knight or noble as his goal, even if I've already stated only characters of Player B's type ever rise to prominence?

I'm the sort that likes a decent background from players on their characters for that reason. No matter how much time I've spent on a setting, however much detail I've craned out, player input ultimately determines a lot about what adventures I run and how the campaign world develops. I actually enjoy making changes due to player input, especially clever ones that neatly fold into the gray areas but exist outside of what I may have thought of. So I guess ultimately #3 applies to my settings as well.

I've yet to be disappointed by the results.

While it has a 'tech' level beyond what you're describing, I'd recommend China Mieville's books (particularly Perdido Street Station) as a reference. Has the similar gothic/Victorian London feel while still maintaining a distinctly non-Earth historical atmosphere.