The Campaign Builder's Guild

A bit of a nutty idea I had the other day :) consider whether all magic-like effects could be explained in terms of manipulating time and space.

Take a fireball type spell for example: rather than having a ball of fire "just" magically appear on top of your target, instead you know of a location in the world that currently has a great deal of heat (forest fire, volcano, etc.). You then bend space briefly to have that heat source temporarily relocated to your target area. Or, if more "power" can be applied, you may recall such an event from the past and yank the heat source through time & space.

I'm thinking most spell like effects could be described in terms such as this. It might even create an interesting world the caster is required to have first-hand experience of a usable event before being able to draw on it (e.g. had to have visited that volcano at some point).

Any thoughts?

I just noticed that the way I've been updating the main thread for my system (editing posts) means that it doesn't get flagged as "new posts" in the thread lists. Sorry about that. I'll try to use full posts in the future; though I wonder if it would get too busy having topics spread across multiple posts?

Anyway getting off topic :) I've posted some details on some example Trade, Weapon, and Armour skills. I'm not sure what to focus on next, any thoughts?

Same here, I rather like the name Legendary Heroes, figure I'll stick with it unless someone gives me good reason :)

True, having separate Craft skills for each individual weapon does tend to spread skill points a bit thin. I'm thinking of two possibilities: one is that artisans may only focus on a few types of items and therefore don't necessarily need a large list of skills; second perhaps some Craft skills could cover groups of items (e.g. Craft (swords), Craft (bows), etc. This would reduce the need for many small skills, but may still give enough flavour so that the guy who makes horseshoes isn't implicitly a master of sword making.

..and yes, I only have swords listed because I haven't got to the others yet :) working on it though. Anything in particular you'd like seen detailed out first?

Your concept for handling armour sounds like a good idea, I'll give it some thought. Although it may be a bit arbitrary, I was thinking that I would introduce a limit on the number of skill points that could be assigned to skills (avoiding the never-ending learning of skill). Playing with the numbers a bit, things seem to balance out well at DV's around 40 maximum for "truly heroic" actions. That would give a maximum of 10 for the 3 abilities plus a maximum of 10 skill points (10+10+10 + 10 = 40). This isn't set in stone though :)

Thank your LV for providing a bite-sized version of your skill system. A really well thought out and detailed arrangement of skill and sub-skills. I like how the guilds are added as a bonus to their % for skill checks (am I interpreting that correctly?). The idea of "kits" for teaching and studying is great, mind if I borrow/steal that idea for my system? :)

Although very detailed and certainly allows the capturing of a lot of subtlety in skills/learning, I'm wondering how complicated it is for the GM and players to keep track of all the numbers. Particularly, the sub-skill idea where a certain % of the parent skill is carried down to the sub-skills. Seems like a lot of math :P How do  you find it all flows while playing?

Magic is the folding and collapsing of time and space. Magical effects have been studied for centuries and have largely been explained in terms of science, but the how and why these events occur still eludes people.

Spells

Detailed descriptions of various spell skills.

Description Format

Abilities: The three abilities required to invoke the spell.
Range: The maximum distance to the target creature or area.
Casting Time: The amount of time required to cast the spell. The spell does not take effect until this period has lapsed.
Maintainable: States whether the spell may be maintained for multiple rounds.
Counter: Lists any skills that may be used to counter or reduce the spell effect.
Description: Describes the basic effects of the spell.
Effects: The various effects possible with the spell and the difficulty adjustments for each

DV	Effect
Minimum DV required	Basic effect
Increase to DV	Improved effect
...	...

Example Spells

[spoiler=Details]
Acid Arrow

Abilities: Str, Dex, Rea
Range: 20 ft.
Casting Time: Instantaneous
Maintainable: No
Counter: Any Armour check reduces damage
Description: A shot of acid leaves your fingers and strikes a single target of your choice.
Effects:

DV	Effect
10	Cause 1d6 acid damage to the target
+3	Increase the range of the spell by 10 ft.
+5	Increase the acid damage by 1d6

Cure

Abilities: Rea, Pre, Con
Range: 5 ft.
Casting Time: Instantaneous
Maintainable: No
Counter: Will Power negates
Description: Restores HP of the targeted creature. Can not repair significant body damage such as dismemberment.
Effects:

DV	Effect
10	Restores 1d6 HP to the targeted creature
+3	Increase the range of the spell by 5 ft.
+5	Increase the HP restoration by 1d6

Inferno

Abilities: Str, Rea, Con
Range: 30 ft.
Casting Time: Instantaneous
Maintainable: No
Counter: Any Armour check reduces damage
Description: A rain of fire falls from above, all creatures in the area take fire damage.
Effects:

DV	Effect
20	Cause 2d6 fire damage to all targets within a 15 ft. radius of the targeted area
+5	Increase the range of the spell by 10 ft.
+5	Increase the fire damage by 1d6
+7	Increase the radius of the effect by 10 ft.

[/spoiler]

Armour

Detailed descriptions of various armour skills.

Description Format

Abilities: The three abilities required to use the armour
Description: A description of the type, style, and appearance of the armour
Effects: The various effects possible with the armour (e.g. damage reduction) and the difficulty adjustments for each

DV	Effect
Minimum DV required	Basic effect
Increase to DV	Improved effect
...	...

Example Armour

[spoiler=Details]
Leather

Abilities: Str, Dex, Con
Description: Although more constraining than regular clothing, leather armour provides more protection with only a some loss of mobility.
Effects:

DV	Effect
10	Reduce damage by 1d6
+7	Increase the damage reduction by an additional 1d6

Plate

Abilities: Str, Dex, Rea
Description: Half-plate armour is much lighter than chainmail, but the wearer must be careful to avoid attacks aimed at weak points of the armour.
Effects:

DV	Effect
15	Reduce damage by 3d6
+7	Increase the damage reduction by an additional 1d6

Full-Plate

Abilities: Str, Dex, Rea
Description: A more extensive form of half-plate mail; the entire body from head to foot is covered in armour.  Very heavy and difficult to manuover with.  Full plate armour ideally should be fitted to the individual, but with some effort you can wear any of an appropriate size.
Effects:

DV	Effect
20	Reduce damage by 4d6
+3	Increase the damage reduction by an additional 1d6
+7	Done armour when not properly fitted for the individual

[/spoiler]

Weapons

Detailed descriptions of various weapon skills.

Description Format

Abilities: The three abilities required to use the weapon
Area of Influence: The reach or range of the weapon
Description: A description of the type, style, and appearance of the weapon
Effects: The various effects possible with the weapon (e.g. damage caused) and the difficulty adjustments for each

DV	Effect
Minimum DV required	Basic effect
Increase to DV	Improved effect
...	...

Example Weapons

[spoiler=Details]
Long Sword

Abilities: Str, Dex, Rea
Area of Influence: 5 ft.
Description: Long swords are much heavier and more difficult to wield than short swords, but are capable of causing more damage.
Effects:

DV	Effect
15	3d6 damage to the target
+5	Wield the sword off-handed
+5	Increase the damage caused by an additional 1d6

Shortbow

Abilities: Str, Dex, Rea
Area of Influence: 30 ft.
Description: A short range bow in which the range and amount of damage caused by an arrow can be adjusted based on the amount of tension placed on the bow's string.
Effects:

DV	Effect
10	2d6 damage to the target
+3	Increase the attack range (AOI) by 10 ft.
+9	Increase the damage caused by an additional 1d6

[/spoiler]

Trade Skills

[spoiler=Craft]
Craft

The Craft skill allows characters to create items, assuming they have the necessary training. Every type of item (or perhaps groups of similar items) has a specialized form of the Craft skill (see table below). Each specialization is treated as a unique skill and is learned and trained in separately from other specializations.

Every item has an inherent "crafting time" that represents how many hours of work is required to create that item from scratch. Performing a Craft check has the character spend a day working on the item. However crafting time is stated in terms of an expert creating the item and therefore the average character will often take longer. As such, although the player may spend 8 hours a day on the item, he or she may actually only accomplished 2 hours worth of an expert's time.

As an example, say you want to create a healing potion that has a crafting time of 10 hours. A Craft Potion (healing) check (see table below) of DV 15 will allow you complete 4 hours of work per day for three days. However if you have more advanced training and can achieve a DV 18 (+1 / +2h * 3 = 6 additional hours) you can create the potion in a single day.

Craft Specializations

Some example specializations:

Name	Abilities	Min DV / Hours	Improvement	Failure	Types
Item	Str, Dex, Rea	10 / 2h	+1 / +2h	Time spent is lost, but the item remains intact	Basket, Glassware, etc.
Potion	Dex, Rea, Con	15 / 4h	+1 / +2h	Becomes unusable, raw materials lost	Poison, Healing, etc.
Metalwork	Str, Dex, Rea	15 / 4h	+1 / +2h	Item is damaged, repeat time to fix	Horseshoes, nails, etc.
Weapon	Str, Dex, Con	15 / 2h	+1 / +1h	Item is damaged, repeat time to fix	Dagger, Long Sword, etc.
Armour	Str, Dex, Con	15 / 2h	+1 / +1h	Item is damaged, repeat time to fix	Chainmain, Plate, etc.
Leatherwork	Str, Dex, Rea	15 / 2h	+1 / +2h	Item is damaged, repeat time to fix	Saddles, Reigns, etc.

Crafting Time

Some example craft times:

Name	Hours
Healing, minor	10
Healing, major	30
Saddle	10
Long Sword	60
Chainmail	150
Full-plate	300

[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Mentour]
Mentour

The Mentour skill allows you to train another in a single skill that you know (separate Mentour specializations for each skill). Spending an hour with your apprentice allows you to impart a specific amount of knowledge (XP) depending on your adeptness at teaching that skill. The higher the DV of the Mentour skill achieved, the more XP per hour that the apprentice earns.

DV	Effect
10	Apprentice gains 1 XP per hour
+5	Increase hourly rate by 1 XP

A failed mentour check results in no productive hours. There is no loss of existing knowledge (the apprentice does not become confused), but the time spent together was not fruitful.

As time is spent with the mentour, the apprentice will earn XP leading to new skills and skill points. However, the mentour can not impart more knowledge (skill points) for a given skill than he has himself. For example, if the mentour has 4 skill points in the Great Sword skill, the apprentice can earn up to a maximum of 4 skill points from that mentour.
[/spoiler]

Basic Skills

Placeholder, coming soon

Learning & Training

Experience points (XP) are periodically earned during adventures and can be "spent" to learn new skills, train in known skills (gain skill points), or improve ability scores. Every skill and ability has an amount of XP associated with it which indicates the amount of progress toward its improvement. Once the required amount of XP to improve a character aspect (see table below) has been reached the award is earned and the related XP resets to 0 (or the remainder of XP).

Award	XP Required
New Skill	50 XP
Skill Point	75 XP
Ability Point	200 XP

Learning Skills

A skill can not be used unless it has first been learned (with the exception of Basic skills). The GM could allow players to learn any skill available, however a more rich world could be created by limiting their access. Items such as scrolls, books, and mentours could all be used to provide players means to learn unique skills. Once a skill is known, it can then be used and further trained in.

Self-Training

The GM may wish to allow players to teach themselves new skills through experimentation and determination. The player would periodically practice the new skill (even though they don't truly "know" it yet) during her adventures to earn XP for it. Once the required 75 XP for learning the skill has been reached the player has completed her initial training and can now focus on refining the skill (skill points).

Mentours

Apprenticeship would likely be the primary means for players to learn skills, and would also allow them to train in those skills more quickly. An hour with a mentour earns the character a certain amount of XP which is then assigned to the skill of interest. The Mentour skill of the mentour dictates the rate at which he or she can train an individual.

For example, the mentour below can train player's in the use of Great Swords, Handaxes, and Battleaxes. Note however that his ability to train others is not the same for each of those skills.

Skill	XP / hour
Mentour (Great Sword)	3 XP
Mentour (Handaxe)	2 XP
Mentour (Battleaxe)	1 XP

For a character to learn how to effectively use a Great Sword from this mentour, he would need to spend 25 hours (75 XP / 3 XP/h) with him. This time would not need to be contiguous though, the player could periodically visit his mentour when convenient (for both).

@Crippled Crow:

Yes you can train in basic skills to improve upon them. The only difference between basic skills and all the others is that you inherently know them and don't need to spend time on learning them before they can be used.

Excellent point about the Craft/Forge skills. What I'm thinking now is that perhaps the Craft skill should as a generic template for all crafting actions. So basically combine (yes more grouping, but bear with me) the Brew Potion, Craft Item and Forge Item skills into a single Craft skill. You would then learn skills such as Craft Item (basket), Craft Weapon (long sword), Craft Potion (healing), etc. Each "sub-type" of the Craft skill would actually be treated as it's a skill and trained in separately from the others. I guess I'm just trying to keep a consistent set of rules for crafting items overall.

I'm glad you like the idea of defensive rolls. However, I respectively disagree with your opinion on not having Armour as skills. Like LordVreeg mentioned there is an aspect of training for knowing how best to use a particular piece of armour. What are it's weak points? How do you go about protecting those areas in combat? etc. Out of curiosity though, any thoughts on how would I incorporate armour as a minor ability instead of as a full skill.

@Khyron, great to hear you like it so far, I'll keep plugging away :) Agreed, the Legendary Heroes title may have to change to avoid confusion with other systems, I'm open to suggestions :)

That's a lot like what I was thinking, having mentours scattered throughout the campaign world invites the players to explore their environment more, maybe even make pacts with certain organizations in order to gain some special skills. Definitely agree with the idea that certain mentours would teach certain skills better than others.

Skills

Currently skills are grouped into four categories: Basic, Trades, Weapons, Armour, and Spells. An attempt has been made to balance variety of skills with simplicity. In some cases several actions can be performed using one skill (Acrobatics) while others become more specific (spells).

The sections below describe some starting ideas for various skills.

[spoiler=Basic]
Basic

These skills are inherent to all characters and do not need to be learned to be used, but can still be improved upon through training. The DV's for these skills are generally dictated by the GM and situation the character is in (see Difficulty Values above).

Name	Abilities	Description
Acrobatics	Str, Dex, Rea	Jumping, climbing, balancing, etc.
Will Power	Rea, Pre, Con	Defense against coercion, mind control, fear, etc.
Perception	Dex, Rea, Pre	General awareness, use of senses, searching, listening, etc.
React	Dex, Rea, Pre	Instinctively react to a situation, reflexes, etc.
Endure	Str, Rea, Con	Tolerate physical stress or perform a physically taxing task for a long duration
Stealth	Dex, Rea, Pre	Move quietly, hide in shadows, etc.
Trek	Str, Rea, Con	Travel long distances across terrain

[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Trades]
Trades

Generally, trade skills must be learned in order to be performed. The DV's for these skills are generally dictated by the GM and situation the character is in  (see Difficulty Values above).

Name	Abilities	Description
Appraise	Dex, Rea, Con	Determine the value of an item
Communicate	Dex, Rea, Pre	Communicate with someone having a foreign language.
Craft Item	Str, Dex, Rea	Create items (potions, metalwork, leatherwork, etc.)
Deceive	Dex, Rea, Pre	Disguises, forgeries, etc.
Mentour	Dex, Rea, Pre	Teach others your skills
Navigate	Dex, Rea, Con	Travel long distances using natural monuments, night stars, etc.
Ride	Str, Dex, Rea	Use an animal mount
Sail	Str, Dex, Rea	Operate a boat (row, sail, etc.)
Swim	Str, Dex, Con	Swim in water or other liquid
Tend	Str, Dex, Rea	Provide non-magical healing to another
Tinker	Dex, Rea, Pre	Open locks, modify mechanical devices, etc.
Track	Dex, Rea, Con	Track a person or creature
Train Animal	Str, Rea, Pre	Train an animal to perform tasks

[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Weapons]
Weapons

Here are a few example weapons. The player may choose what ever DV he/she wishes to attempt, the higher the DV the greater the effect. Note that weapons have a minimum DV that must be achieved to be used at all. The Improvement column states how much the DV must be increased in order to increase the damage, range, etc. of the weapon.

Name	Abilities	Min DV	Min Dmg/Range	Improvement
Dagger	Str, Dex, Rea	5	1d6	+7 / +1d6
Short Sword	Str, Dex, Rea	10	2d6	+7 / +1d6
Long Sword	Str, Dex, Rea	15	3d6	+5 / +1d6
Great Sword	Str, Rea, Con	20	4d6	+3 / +1d6
Shortbow	Str, Dex, Rea	10	2d6; 30 ft.	+9 / +1d6; +3 / +10 ft.
Longbow	Str, Dex, Rea	15	2d6; 100 ft.	+7 / +1d6; +2 / +20 ft.

[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Armour]
Amour

Armour absorbs damage caused by weapons, spells, environment, etc. The player may choose what ever DV he/she wishes to attempt, the higher the DV the greater the damage reduction. Note that armour has a minimum DV that must be achieved to be used at all. Some example armour:

Name	Abilities	Min DV	Min Reduction	Improvement
Leather	Str, Dex, Con	10	1d6	+7 / +1d6
Studded Leather	Str, Dex, Rea	15	2d6	+5 / +1d6
Plate	Str, Dex, Rea	15	3d6	+7 / +1d6
Full-plate	Str, Dex, Rea	20	4d6	+3 / +1d6
Buckler	Str, Dex, Con	5	1d6	+10 / +1d6
Wood Shield	Str, Dex, Rea	13	2d6	+6 / +1d6
Steel Shield	Str, Dex, Rea	17	3d6	+4 / +1d6

[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Spells]
Spells

Like weapons, the player may choose what ever DV he/she wishes to attempt, the higher the DV the greater the spell's effect. Note that spells have a minimum DV that must be achieved to be used at all. The Improvement column states how much the DV must be increased in order to increase the damage, range, radius, etc. of the spell. Some example spells:

Name	Abilities	Min DV	Min Effect	Improvement
Acid Arrow	Str, Dex, Rea	10	1d6 acid damage; within 20 ft.	+5 / +1d6 damage; +3 / +10 ft.
Cure	Rea, Pre, Con	10	restore 1d6 HP; within 5 ft.	+5 / +1d6 restore; +3 / +5 ft.
Inferno	Str, Rea, Con	20	2d6 fire damage, 15 ft. radius; target within 30 ft.	+5 / +1d6 damage; +7 / +10 ft. radius; +5 / +10 ft. range

[/spoiler]

@Ra-Tiel, I've been play 2nd/3rd D&D for years and have occasionally been frustrated that most skills were based on only a single ability. It didn't matter that I had really great dexterity, I couldn't handle my sword any better than the muscle-bound oaf beside me :) yes, 3rd give feats for dexterity/weapons, but that pretty much just flips the problem :)

What I'm trying to simulate with the three-ability approach is that people generally can use their greater abilities to compensate for lesser ones. Take the sword example, the combination of Strength, Dexterity, Reason allows me to balance my ability to cleave at enemies (Strength), figure out where my enemy have a weak-point (Reason) and carefully manipulate my sword to take advantage of them (Dexterity).

@Crippled Crow, I guess this leads me to your question. Yes, for the most part I have generalized skills but several of them. My idea here is that I wanted to try to create a relatively simple system, but still have a lot of flexibility. I'm not sure if I've struck quite the right balance, but will try to post some more details on skills later today.

I hadn't really thought of it as players defining their own class, I was coming from the approach that characters just exist. Their experiences help them define who they are as a "person", not a "stereotype". Having said that, perhaps my original post should have described my system as "level-less" rather than "classless"; because in the end I can see a lot of benefits of offering some structure in the form of classes.