System Smashing! Combining FATE with the D20 System

[LoA]

So I have an RPG engagement coming up in a couple of days, and I began thinking about a couple of things.

A couple of days ago, I went over to a geek store at one of the malls of my town. I brought my Pathfinder/3.x stuff with me to run a quick game at the store while we were waiting to go work on my friends mom's apartment building. I ran a quick campaign i made up on the spot called Rivers of Panorah. Rather than lovingly and bloodily ripping of Tolkien like everyone else, I resorted to ripping of C.S. Lewis, Beatrix Potter, and whoever made Oz the Great and Powerful by making a small characters campaign based around a race of RIVER otters (before anyone thinks I got the idea from South Park), a race of Owls (my sister was playing and she loves owls), and a race of runaway enchanted toys (because I really like the doll from Oz tGaP....... Shut Up) and they have to protect their homes from the onslaught of goblins and weird stuff like that. Pretty standard dnd stuff... Only with owls, otters, and dolls.

I had one of those weird lock ups you get when you're in a new place, and you don't know anyone, and even though you know everyone in there's a nerd, you can't bring yourself to start playing getting into the more roleplay-ey aspects of dnd. Especially since there were only three of us, and I was playing the doll. So we just level-ground to the second level, and quit for the day. So it was pretty fun, I hocked carion crawlers and shock lizards at them.

And then I started looking around the store, when what should they have but a $25 copy of FATE Core in stock! I of course only having about twenty dollars with plans to go see Pacific Rim in theaters before it completely stopped playing in my area, resorted to buying the $5 Fate Accelerated copy, which I kind of prefer honestly. It's quick, it explains everything, and I could introduce it to players without much effort.

So I should it to my friend and sister, and they honestly liked the idea. My sister asked if she could run a game with it, and I said sure. We spent the next five minutes roleplaying as rabbits in a candy shop (she's really into manga).


So what do I do when I have a bowl full of soft vanilla ice cream, and a plate of crunchy oreos? I smash up the oreos, and mix them with my ice cream to make Cookies n' Cream! And i was thinking, why not make a Cookies n' Cream system with FATE and 3.x?
Basically I want to relegate the Roleplaying to FATE, and use the 3.x stuff for combat stuff. I think the Roleplaying mechanics of FATE are really good, but I still think D20 does combat better.

Would this work or do you see something wrong with this? For instance, one of my favorite settings is Dragonmech, I love the flavor, and a lot of the really cool mechanics, but I loathe the Mech mechanics, they are so dense and unfathomable. Will with the FATE system, "Mech pilot roll fudge dice to see if Mech succesfully punches Lunar Giant, and Elf, roll d20 to see if you successfully hit the giant with your arrows, ok 19, Penetrates AC, what's that? You want to hit in the eyes, ok roll fudge Dice as will, you got "good", ok, I'm gonna say you do manage to get him to clench his face and distract him for a couple of minutes before he regains regular action, Mech pilot you got "fantastic" on the latter? Ok now roll for damage, 5d8, 31 total, ok..." and so on and so forth.

So what does everyone think? That's a good idea, that's a Bad idea, you're insane, you actually liked the doll from Oz The Great and Powerful so much you made a race based around it?

[Lmns Crn]

You can do almost anything as long as you are consistent about it.

FATE combines well with a lot of things. I've heard of groups that love D&D, who just play D&D with FATE-style Aspects bolted on. It's easy to mod in, gives good results, and is mechanically unintrusive and simple to implement during gameplay.

Now, this example here:

Would this work or do you see something wrong with this? For instance, one of my favorite settings is Dragonmech, I love the flavor, and a lot of the really cool mechanics, but I loathe the Mech mechanics, they are so dense and unfathomable. Will with the FATE system, "Mech pilot roll fudge dice to see if Mech succesfully punches Lunar Giant, and Elf, roll d20 to see if you successfully hit the giant with your arrows, ok 19, Penetrates AC, what's that? You want to hit in the eyes, ok roll fudge Dice as will, you got "good", ok, I'm gonna say you do manage to get him to clench his face and distract him for a couple of minutes before he regains regular action, Mech pilot you got "fantastic" on the latter? Ok now roll for damage, 5d8, 31 total, ok..." and so on and so forth.

I think that sounds basically like a nightmare of complexity. Maybe this is just a quick example thrown out without a lot of precision (which is fine), but it seems like you're just switching back and forth between systems really frequently.

Honestly, I think you should sit down and make a list of the things you like about FATE, the things you like about D20, the things you dislike about FATE, and the things you dislike about D20. And use that to decide on a specific way to mix the two systems.

But based on your descriptions (liking d20 for combat and FATE for "roleplaying"), I think you might try running D20 with Aspects and see how you like the results.

[LoA]

Ok so I've been compiling a list of things I want from both sides of the isle. However what Luminous Crayon

You can do almost anything as long as you are consistent about it.

FATE combines well with a lot of things. I've heard of groups that love D&D, who just play D&D with FATE-style Aspects bolted on. It's easy to mod in, gives good results, and is mechanically unintrusive and simple to implement during gameplay.

Ok, this peaks my interest. Are there any examples of this online, and if so, where can I find them?
Heres basically what I had in mind for my system.
Roleplaying actions, special actions, and Racial traits are all relegated to aspects and Fudge Dice. Then you still keep 3.x for all of the physical aspects (Str, Con, Dex, Etc), saving throws, and combat scenarios (Unless attempting special actions). Also maybe classes should just stay 3.x.

[sparkletwist]

By the way, FATE Core is available free online, totally legit.
So if you want to take a look at it and don't mind not having a fancy book with all its fancy book goodness, you can totally do that.

[Lmns Crn]

I don't have any handy links.

But here's how it works.

You've got to have some kind of token currency. (Some versions of D20 have this already, in the form of "action points" or whatever. If not, not big deal, add something.) Helps if it's desirable on its own merits. ("Spend a token to reroll a failed roll" or "spend a token to add +1d6 to a roll" or whatever you like.)

Now you attach Aspects to your characters, just like FATE. They're otherwise totally D20 stock-standard, only with Aspects now.

Now you just use the Aspects for Tags/Compels, using your token currency, just like in FATE. NBD.

Roleplaying actions, special actions, and Racial traits are all relegated to aspects and Fudge Dice. Then you still keep 3.x for all of the physical aspects (Str, Con, Dex, Etc), saving throws, and combat scenarios (Unless attempting special actions).

What I do not recommend is using two different kinds of dice in this way. (If you love fudge dice, you could get somewhere similar by, for example, replacing every d20 roll with a fudge roll, and reducing all ACs and other difficulties and targets by 10.)

Once you're already using a system of Aspects/Tags/Compels in your d20 game, you probably can go ahead and include FATE-style special combat actions (placing Aspects and then Tagging them, etc.) without too much extra trouble.

The thing that I'm having a lot of trouble with is understanding is a way to make a "split system" work, where physical actions are handled one way and social actions use a totally different game mechanic, set of dice, mindset-- everything.

[LoA]

I don't have any handy links.

But here's how it works.

You've got to have some kind of token currency. (Some versions of D20 have this already, in the form of "action points" or whatever. If not, not big deal, add something.) Helps if it's desirable on its own merits. ("Spend a token to reroll a failed roll" or "spend a token to add +1d6 to a roll" or whatever you like.)

Now you attach Aspects to your characters, just like FATE. They're otherwise totally D20 stock-standard, only with Aspects now.

Now you just use the Aspects for Tags/Compels, using your token currency, just like in FATE. NBD.

Roleplaying actions, special actions, and Racial traits are all relegated to aspects and Fudge Dice. Then you still keep 3.x for all of the physical aspects (Str, Con, Dex, Etc), saving throws, and combat scenarios (Unless attempting special actions).

What I do not recommend is using two different kinds of dice in this way. (If you love fudge dice, you could get somewhere similar by, for example, replacing every d20 roll with a fudge roll, and reducing all ACs and other difficulties and targets by 10.)

Once you're already using a system of Aspects/Tags/Compels in your d20 game, you probably can go ahead and include FATE-style special combat actions (placing Aspects and then Tagging them, etc.) without too much extra trouble.

The thing that I'm having a lot of trouble with is understanding is a way to make a "split system" work, where physical actions are handled one way and social actions use a totally different game mechanic, set of dice, mindset-- everything.

Ok so what you're saying is, is that if I were to make an eberron character that has action points, I just add aspects to that character. For instance I have a level one Warforged Artificer. It has 5 action points. Now I add aspects like "Wartorn Soldier", "Adept repairer", and "Has lot's of connections", so now I spend action points to invoke those aspects whenever situations like that occurs. Okay that's an interesting idea, and I like it. But heres what I was thinking. Maybe just replace the D20 with the FATE ladder all together.

[Lmns Crn]

Ok so what you're saying is, is that if I were to make an eberron character that has action points, I just add aspects to that character. For instance I have a level one Warforged Artificer. It has 5 action points. Now I add aspects like "Wartorn Soldier", "Adept repairer", and "Has lot's of connections", so now I spend action points to invoke those aspects whenever situations like that occurs.

Yup! Exactly.

But heres what I was thinking. Maybe just replace the D20 with the FATE ladder all together.

Maybe try running a game that's just straight-up FATE, and see how it works for you and your group.

If you love it, no further need to mod stuff. If you find you mainly just love small parts of it, the experience will still help you pinpoint exactly what changes you want to make.

Anyway, though, replacing the D20 with the FATE ladder might work just fine. As I mentioned earlier, just subtract 10 or so from all your difficulties/targets (because an average roll on fudge dice is +0 and an average roll on a D20 is 10.5).

[sparkletwist]

Maybe just replace the D20 with the FATE ladder all together.

The problem there is that the probability curves are very different, where an attack at +5 is top tier in FATE but pretty much par for the course for a good level 1 fighter (e.g., strength of 18 + BAB 1 = +5) so the numbers will start diverging really fast.

In Q&D, which is admittedly much simpler than D&D but has some of the mash-FATE-stuff-into-d20 thing going for it, I used basically the FATE ladder, but had each level of a skill roll a d6 instead of just adding a flat bonus. So, for example, if you had a Melee skill of 3, your attack would be d20+3d6.

[Lmns Crn]

The problem there is that the probability curves are very different, where an attack at +5 is top tier in FATE but pretty much par for the course for a good level 1 fighter (e.g., strength of 18 + BAB 1 = +5) so the numbers will start diverging really fast.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That's a really important thing!

[Weave]

I think the best, if not only, way to merge FATE and 3.x would be with aspects, as others have stated. I'd be interested to see what the "meta" points in such a game would provide. I've thought about adding them myself, but never went through with it.