System Possiblilities

[beejazz]

Well, in designing my game, I have realized that it will be necessary to design a new system. This is largely because of the fact that my systems of choice (tristat, brp, etc) would be very expensive to liscence. D20 is not really an option without such heavy modification that I may as well start from scratch. So I've been mulling over mechanical possibilities for various things. Character creation, initiative, damage... all kinds of things.

I'll just name categories in spoiler tags, and further spoilerize my thoughts. It's a nasty habit, but it keeps me focused.

[spoiler=initiative]I only have one idea for initiative, but it's one that allows opposed rolls for attack and defense. Also, it covers flanking and AoO style tactics while getting rid of some of the fiddly bits.

The idea I had is this. A character gets three actions per round. Actions include attack, defend, move, delay, full defense, and charge (a full attack action).

A character can attack, and if his opponent has an action available, that opponent may defend. This is different both from the standard attack vs set value and from the opposed rolls, in that if you want to defend, you have to spend one of your actions to do so. This (at least in part) will cover things like flanking, because the more individual attacks you suffer, the less likely you will be able to defend yourself.

The specific rules for delaying cover attacks of opportunity and to some extent suppressive fire. A character can ready a melee attack so that he can attack anyone who comes within reach. With ranged weapons, one can ready a ranged attack against one single target. If that target does so much as to look at you funny, you can shoot. Multiple ranged attacks can be readied against multiple foes (each readied attack has one designated foe). At any given time, you may drop a readied action to defend.

Charging is a full round attack that can't be defended against except by a full defense. Full defense uses all three actions and allows you to roll once for your defense value against all attacks this round. I may add some equivalent for autofire.

Anyways, I envision certain odd things that could happen in combat. I imagine person A aiming a gun at person B, waiting for person B to move. Meanwhile person C attacks person A, forcing person A to choose whether he will defend against C and lose his sights on person B or else take the damage and hold his sights on person B.

Anyway, the brainstorming for this idea can be seen here[/spoiler]

[spoiler=chargen]This is really two categories: How to make a starting character and how to advance it.

[spoiler=point buy]This has some stuff that's up in the air, and some options as to how to handle it... it's got some problems too. It seems like it would be difficult to balance, like character creation would take a little while, and like there are already a bunch of systems that do it better than I could. If I did do this, I don't know if I'd handle skills and crazy abilities separately, and the same question can be applied to attributes.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=levels]One option I've thought of is to combine the Perfect 20 (a variant of D20) idea with that of Starwars saga. Simply adding things like saves, attacking, and defending to the skill list. Characters would pick some number of skills at the start. Skills chosen this way would be dice+level+ability, where skills not chosen would be 1/2level+dice+ability. Special abilities would be gained every so often, with something of a feat tree style.

There are a few drawbacks. Most of my non-humanoids could be handled as one special ability, with the stipulation "only at first level." I had this idea where some folks might want to play as a "bucket" which would essencially be an AI in a metal case the size and shape of a five-gallon bucket... it would be a sub-par buyable ability. Maybe institute flaws? In the case of mutants, these abilities would be "buy at first level" with later abilities expanding the capabilities of existing mutations, though you never get a totally new mutation. Not sure how I'd handle mecha though.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=priorities]Got Shadowrun 2e recently. This seems as good a way to go as any, with some modifications.[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=rolling]
In all honesty, I just want to go with something DnDish. Maybe 3d6+mods.

In terms of damage, it would use a black die and a white die. Subtract the black die from the white die, plus some damage value of the weapon. It's a way to do damage that won't need as much in the way of variable numbers of dice. I might include an option for explosive damage (massive damage that you want to have be more random) that would include a red die you'd multiply the other two by (giving you a +/- 30 damage... like some kind of D60).

If I have money to invest in a second edition, I'll switch it over to six-sided dice that go zero to five and use four of them in skill checks. I'd sell the whole thing as a boxed set or something. Damage would still go +/-5, but explosive damage would only go +/-25. More like a D50. Still works for me.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=skills and attributes]
[spoiler=attributes]I pretty much know what the attributes are going to be and how they'll be generated. There'll be three categories with two attributes each.
Body:Strength and Dexterity
Mind:Knowledge and Intelligence
Soul:Will and Gnosis

I might change the names a bit, particularly Gnosis. Before I go into how you generate the numbers, I'll describe each one.

Strength: Strength covers both what strength typically covers and constitution. It's a measure of brawn, physical prowess, and melee combat ability.
Dexterity: You two are already familiar.
Knowledge: What you know. In this game, not the same as natural cunning and what have you. Knowledge is for things like hacking computers or what have you.
Intelligence: How well you think. Less educated people can still outwit more educated people, if they have the natural cunning necessary to do so.
Will: Will is your tendency towards fierce individuality, your ability to exert your will psionically, and your ability to resist psychic attacks on your mind. It's also useful for intimidation and such.
Gnosis:Gnosis is your perception, your intuition, and your empathy. It's also your psychic intuition, and your ability to resist psychic trickeries and illusions.

In generating abilities, there are three steps.
1)Distribute two points in each category.
2)Distribute three points to whole categories. Points distributed this way add to both abilities in whatever categories you give them two.
3)Determine the categories' scores. This is the average of the two abilities in the category.

Ability scores range from zero to five.
Category scores range from one to four.

If I include a luck score, it'll probably be the three categories multiplied by one another. The more mediocre your category scores, the higher your luck. Luck is probably the only thing a generalist has going for him.
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=powers][/spoiler]

I've just begun filling this in. More later.

[Stargate525]

I only have one idea for initiative, but it's one that allows opposed rolls for attack and defense. Also, it covers flanking and AoO style tactics while getting rid of some of the fiddly bits...

I like this system, alot. How do you handle the initiative order, what decides who goes first? And do you use all three of your actions at once, or what?

The only problem that I see with this is that it would be possible to completely immobilize your strongest opponent (by attacking three times), pick him off, then move down the power level. I realize that you don't have to defend, but in most situations it would be prudent.

To remedy this I would suggest giving a few more points, say 6, and make different movements cost different amounts. This way, you could still go full defense and fall back, where in yours you couldn't.

I hope you can comment in here...

[beejazz]

Thanks!

Comments are cool wherever. As long as I'm getting feedback, it's all good.

As for action points for different actions, it seems a bit fiddly to me. But I do have one or two failsafes in the specifics.

Namely (and here I'm assuming D20) you do still have a static defense value of Skill+Ability+5, whereas when you spend an action it's that plus 1d20. That way, if someone's defense is 5 higher than his opponent's attack, he hardly needs to defend. That way, PCs can unload boxes of bullets into hordes of mooks, whereas a Big Bad style fight can also remain effective.

I know the static value thing is just one fiddly system in the place of another, but it's the one I prefer in this case.

[Thanuir]

If brp would be too expensive, have you considered Mongoose RuneQuest (SRD and other stuff behind that link)?

Do you want the game to be mechanically somewhat balanced? If yes, be very, very careful about giving extra actions in any shape. They'll be extremely powerful.
If no, point-buy seems a bit moot, as far as options go. My prefenrece is to allow players to choose the stats (and other stuff) for their characters, but that simply won't work in some games, or with some groups.

[beejazz]

The fact that I'm considering random character generation should tell you how concerned I am with balance. If I go with a system that shoots for it, like levels or point buy, then I'll try to be consistent. Aside from that, I've got no problems putting some random beurocrat with no special abilities in the same party as a guy who can teleport and some girl with a giant robot.

In terms of extra attacks, it isn't as "extra" if everyone has the same number. I get what you're saying, but part of what I'm trying to do is make inferior foes more inferior and superior foes more superior in order to speed up mook fights (you don't have to defend; just attack attack attack) and give boss fights a chance (because so long as it's a single overpowered foe, nobody needs to turtle to survive... whereas he'd otherwise run the risk of having to defend all the time and seem a whimp). So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm tilting the playing field intentionally in this case.

Oh, and thanks for the link. I'm sure it would be fine to play that system, but would it be free to publish something under that system? I'd be worried about making money off of that.

EDIT: Man, regardless of whether I can lift it in whole... that combat system is friggin' awesome! Just looking at it is exciting. There are rules for people being impaled... and then more rules for whether you leave the weapon in them or rip it out!

[Thanuir]

In terms of extra attacks, it isn't as "extra" if everyone has the same number.

Agreed. My point is to be careful about magic/technology/special abilities that give more actions. Like some haste effect giving one extra action, for a total of 4. They are extremely powerful.


Mongoose Runequest provides an SRD and you can use it as a core for your own products, much like d20 SRD. IIRC.

[beejazz]

Good to know. Lots of systems have a bunch of good stuff. Most of my incentive for doing it myself (while not as much so at the beginning) is that I want all the good stuff in one system.

3d6+mods rolling (D20ish)
tristattish breadth of wild character options.
brpish "million ways to break" a character
some form of simpler character creation (don't know who I'm ripping off yet, or whether I'll do something original) where you just pick some stuff and go.

All kinds of things. Also, Tristat hasn't done anything in ages (well... a new BESM... I guess nothing new?) and has been bought by white wolf. Dunno if that makes it cheaper or more expensive. Then I could always write a kickass classless levels thing for D20.

And yeah... extra extra actions are a baaad idea. I mean... besides just bogging things down.

[beejazz]

new stuff up on attributes and rolling

[beejazz]

So now I'm just mulling over stuff in a totally disorganized fashion.


So, ideally, character creation would work like a cross between Levi K's Perfect 20 (I'll provide a link later... one of the better examples of a "class builder" but for a lack of extraordinary abilities) and Star Wars Saga (binary-ish skills chosen at character creation and having special abilities handled in a feat-tree style) for a sort of classless levels setup.

Here's how it works: You pick a set number of skills (say, five) and special abilities (three at first level and a new one at every odd-numbered level). And that's more or less it. The skills you picked are your level plus your ability score. The skills you didn't pick are half your level plus your ability score.

Oh, and there's your attributes and the option of picking a race.

So now I'm thinking of what these special abilities could be.

Mutant powers I pretty much know how to handle. The unique powers have a prerequisite "only at first level" and "biological entities only." After that there would be things like "improved mutant power" and such, each of which would apply to any and all mutant powers you had. Mutant powers would include things like regeneration/fast healing, natural armor, natural attacks, water breathing, extra limbs, and a few metabolic abilities (like not having to eat as much or stuff).

Rather than handling races as buyable abilities, I'd just handle them more DnDish. Some might have "one fewer special abilities at character creation." Others might get one extra ability, of a specialized type. For example, a "bucket" TAI would probably have -1body, -1soul, +1mind, no limbs, small size, construct immunities, and "gains one special ability off the hacker tree" or something. Alternately, "cephalopod" TAI would probably have +1body, -1soul, -1mind, extra limbs, large size, construct immunities, "two fewer abilites on character creation" and "one extra ability off the weaponry tree." Just some really rough thoughts all at once here.

Psionic abilities I don't know how I'm going to do. My preferred method mimics EPH's psionic feats or ToB's combat. But a more fitting style for the setting is along the lines of a sanity-draining thing. I want to do both (the fast loose combat thing and the dark powers sanity thing) but don't really know how to manage either.

Two things I'm going to have a really hard time with are the big gear abilities and the really mundane things. Not everyone is going to be flying all over the place and doing wuxia-type combat and stuff. I want room for nobles and negotiators and crafty human rogue types and (absolute must in a scifi game) techies. With the gear, I may just do a "this ability can only be taken once" thing. The other stuff is going to be a little harder.

[Thanuir]

Perfect20, 2006 edition.

[beejazz]

Like I said, it's very similar. I saw that thing and really liked the advancement system. Mine just reduces things down to only "raised" and "unraised" with a flat rate for both, so to speak.

The one thing I was kinda nonplussed with there was the feat trees. Great idea, but they felt kinda weak all around.

[beejazz]

Also, I think I've figured a way to include hit locations in only two rolls.

On the attack roll, the lower you roll (and note, this is a roll-over system) the more lethal the hit location. Because of my defense rules, a person who doesn't defend can still be hit with a pretty low roll. If you defend though, you're reasonably safe from a random decapitation or whatever.

I'd also probably include individual AC mods for locations, for the sake of called shots.

[beejazz]

Okay, so here's how you would determine where an attack hits.
On an attack roll...

Low rolls (3-5 or so) would result in a headshot.
Medium rolls (6-14 or so) would result in body shots, either chest or abdomen.
High rolls (15-18 or so) would result in limb shots, an arm or a leg.

The results are fitting I think. Headshots are unlikely unless the victim fails to defend or the attacker is far superior (because a 3-5 is otherwise typically a miss). Rolls gravitate towards body shots thanks to the bell curve... so more than half of all rolls will be body shots. Lastly, limbshots are rare... and when one person has a disproportionately high dodge, people only really hit that person around the periphery, giving the feeling that that person tried to get out of the way and almost did. All nice little bonuses, as far as I can tell. Any forseeable problems?