What Is Magic?

[Aequitas]

Magic is the folding and collapsing of time and space. Magical effects have been studied for centuries and have largely been explained in terms of science, but the how and why these events occur still eludes people.

[JackOfTales]

I haven't read the posts after this yet but I wanted to comment on your ideas here.

Though I'm somewhat confused as to what you are currently discussing, i have something personal to say on the balance between mystery and pre-determined metaphysics. I find it hard to determine whether you should aim for one or the other. If you set it all in stone, it's barely magic anymore. It loses its flair and becomes just another layer of nature. Too much mystery though, and magic becomes unfocused, uncharacteristic, and in time, uninteresting. Personally, i think i prefer something along the lines of an unknown force, that can produce a limited range of results.

First, question, has anybody ever come up with a working concept of how runes work? They are cool and all, and always seem magical, but really, it hardly makes sense that a specific shape should be inherently magical.
The only thing i have been able to come up with was that each rune reacted to a pulse of energy, or what have you, by creating a specific magical "tune" as a function of its shape and the way it magically "reverberates". This could also lead to some interesting concepts of rune symphonies and such :)[/quote]
Essentially an unarmed fighter who can create an invisible force around and near his hands and his body. Not that he can create massive shields or anything, but he can create small slivers of magic force that he can use to parry and slash out at his enemies. Essentially, this fighter would be able to stop attacks in midair, and slash open an armed mans stomach with a sweeping gesture with his hand, even though he was standing a meter away from his outstretched arm. Could be cool. [/quote]
Alternative battle mage idea: instead of shooting fire everywhere, these mages use magic and alchemy to magically boost their physique and mind to make them the perfect warriors; killing machines more or less. Supernaturally quick and strong. Also, you could let all their alchemical drugs have severe drawbacks if you're into that sort of thing. [/quote]

For something like this, you don't even need the person to be a mage. I just see this as a person making use of some sort of magical drug to become a better fighter, or maybe even gain magical casting. In a past setting we had a drug called Boost which gave a random 1d20 magical effect for a limited time to the user, while having severe and permanent drawbacks on your health.

Other ideas for magic-users that I'll throw in the ring:
Furthering on your idea of runes affecting emotions, you could have a specific group of negotiators and mediators that use runes that act as a magical drug to make people more peaceful around them when they draw specific runes.

Magic casters that use spirits to accomplish the same things a wizard does. Need a fireball? Burn up a handful of human ghosts and send them to go explode, screaming in agony into a pack of goblins. Okay so maybe that one's a little evil..

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Hey, I just got a another idea:
Magic IS the Unknown: Not just another "magic is strange and weird" but magic is literally the substance of what we don't know.  It will never be defined and locked in books because that would defeat what it is.  When we're children there is a lot of magic because we know so little.  And gaining magic power doesn't drive you mad, it's the slow realization that you can't really know anything which just so happens to come with insane power'¦'¦'¦

[SA]

Mebbe you can also gain power by forgetting things.  Mages are actually juvenile naifs, with little wisdom and less experience (they sacrifice the knowledge of their past at every turn in order to gain the power of dissolution).  They don't get along well with other people because they're so obsessed with their own ignorance.

[Nomadic]

wrong thread

[khyron1144]

Then of course, there's the Granny Weatherwax definition of magic:

A lot of magic is just knowing one more thing than the other guy.

This suggests the possibility of a "Wizard" class that gets to be a "Wizard" by having a lot of maxed out knowldege skills (or whatever your favored system's local equivalent is) with little to no actual spellcasting ability.


One of my favorite systems, Mayfair Game's DC Heroes had some interesting variations on magic. Powers are divided into the three categories of Physical, Mental, or Mystic.  One power, Mystic Link, is always bought in conjunction with another power and all it does is make a Physical or Mental power count as Mystic and thus magic.  Among other things this means that a charcter with a Mystic-Linked version of a Physical attack power, like Flame Project or Acid, can be used to hurt Superman because he has a vulnerability to magic.

Another, Sorcery, lets you imitate any other power in the system. If you have the Sorcery power rated at 10 APs, you could imitate one power at 10 APs or two at 5 APs or any combination adding up to 10 APs at any one time.  The downside is that you compare the APs of Sorcery you're currently using against your Spirit attribute ( a sort of Mystic hit points) on the resistance table and if it indicates positive RAPs, you take the corresponding amount of Spirit damage.

The third is the Ritual Magic subskill of the Occultist skill.  This is another use any power power, but it takes time and components that cost money to use.  There's also a chance of failure for this one.

[Superfluous Crow]

Speaking of ignorance and super-heroes at (almost) the same time reminds me of supervillain in some comic that apparently had all the superpowers you hadn't thought of.
Hmm, sounds like we think of runes in different ways. I think the idea of something working "just because it does" is odd, and for the same reason i dislike gestures and incantations that do not serve a specific purpose. Unless your magic is sentient, or the words actually have power which is an idea i dislike, incantations don't serve much purpose.

[Nomadic]

Idea here for you that gets around sentient magic in regards to verbal, written, and somatic components. They don't do anything for the magic. In theory the caster could cast just by looking at something and thinking (getting un-mysterious here for a second, not so much strict mind magic as magic being effected by certain combinations of brain activity; electrical signals and such). However the commands used in speaking and moving (whether just with gestures or pen strokes) make casting magic much easier. Indeed only a grand master can control his thoughts enough to activate the certain parts of the brain that can shape magic without movement or speech.

Perhaps the command to fuse an objects matter together and bind it into something stronger requires a gesture with the left hand that matches the strokes for "R" so a magician might learn that when he needs to do this he draws an R shape on the object. Plenty of magicians actually draw it with charcoal or the like since it makes them seem more "magical".

[Aradoom]

Hmm, if I seem to understand this discussion properly we are looking for new ways to view magic.

When the world was first created fromt he Aether all things were formed, all mass, energy, and laws of being which we today have discovered as "science." However no piece of art is ever made perfect or ever made complete.  Magic is when we find the small cracks where creation is not complete, and begin to add our own paint to the masterpiece of Creation.  If you prefer a sillier answer you could think of magic as lying to the universe and sneaking little violations past when the Laws of Physics aren't watching very attentively.

Aradoom
  -however I'm not entirely sure if thats an original answer, someone may have thought of it before me and if they have please point out who (because as you've pointed out, the mass of fantasy literature has grown rather large)

[Nomadic]

To go further on what I said... as certain electrical impulses enable magic it might lead to electrical phenomena forming temporary pockets of wild magic. Imagine a lightning strike that ends up causing the tree it struck to glow blue for several minutes or perhaps it spawns small flaming balls that go skipping along the ground.

To give magic a more solid basis in fact here (instead of just that odd phenomena) we can tie it in with life energy. Life is actually a thing that is channeled into something to make it a living being. The rules of entropy still being in effect here, it leaks, it spreads out. All around you is this force (having previously flowed out of the living). When a creature runs out of this energy it dies (wounds and sickness of course aggravate the loss of life energy).

Certain things can attract and interact with this force. Electricity is a very strong manipulator of it. Because living things use electrical signals to transmit bodily commands they can, with proper training, control the flow of energy around them. With this you can do all sorts of things. Since life energy (odd name... perhaps Aether would be a better term...) is actually the fundamental building block for other types of energy (like atoms are for matter) it enables you to control energy of all forms. So there you have it.

- Focus mind
- Electrical impulses drive aether manipulation
- Aether manipulates local energy
- Energy manipulation does the required job
- Tada! Magic

[Superfluous Crow]

Good idea, Nomad. It somewhat resembles the Free Energy idea i posted in one of my first posts in this thread.
I also designed a magic system based on "Anomalies" at a point, but that mostly involved individuals who were somewhat flawed in regards to the universe, and therefore possessed magical powers (for example, the world might interpret their anger as fire instead, so whenever he got angry he could light fires or the like). I kinda dumped that system though, although i have a player who has the aforementioned ability.
As to the gestures and incantations just being a help of concentration, i must admit i had forgotten that idea... I believe they use that idea in the Riddle of Steel RPG, and also in the Wheel of Time novels, right?
Another energy-based concept: By mutilating their eyes in a magical procedure, wizards lose some of their eyesight, but gain the ability to see energy flows. When things move, they can see streams of kinetic energy flowing through them, when things burn, they can see the heat emitting from the combustion. Using a special wand, they can grab on to that energy and stop or move it, redirecting the flows as they see fit. Removing potential energy can cause objects to hover, redirecting kinetic can stop people in their tracks or cause them to move backwards. Thermal energy can be grabbed onto and be used to burn enemies. This would be much the same as classic magic, but the way it's used would perhaps lead to some creative uses. Also, you have to have a compatible energy source nearby to actually do anything.

[LordVreeg]

Also, in opposition to my earlier post, but closer to what I use personally...MAgic as the divergent replacement for science should follow the same rules of discovery/evolution.