Opinions on the "A Magical Society" books

[lionrampant]

I am wondering if anybody here has read any of the "A Magical Society" books by Expeditious Retreat Press, and if so, what you thought of them.  I got A Magical Medieval Society in PDF a couple years ago and I really like it.  It doesn't fit all settings, though its title tells you what it is aiming it.  It tells you how a medieval society was set up in western Europe, and how magic might likely influence it.  I recently picked up a copy of A Magical Society: Ecology and Culture, which is all about world building.  I'm enjoying the read, but it is very detailed on how the Earth works, and I'm wondering if I really need all of this detail.  The first chapter was all about continental plates, how they move, how the subduction of one plate under another causes mountains to form, why islands form, etc.  It's like reading a primer on geology, except with magical terminology tossed in almost as a lark.  Here's an example of the book from chapter two, dealing with Ecology:

[blockquote page 23]"All life can be classified into three basic groups: autotrophs (organisms that produce organic material from inorganic chemicals and some source of energy), heterotrophs (organisms that require a supply of organic matter or food from the environment), or magiotrophs (organisms that can produce organic material from magical energy alone).  Autotrophs form the basic building block for life on any planet.  They take inorganic chemicals and transform them into organic tissue via light, heat, or other chemicals.  Some examples of autotrophs are photosynthetic bacteria above ground, most plants above ground, and chemosynthetic bacteria at hydrothermal vents or underground.  Heterotrophs are the organisms most creatures are familiar with like frogs, cows, lions, fish, and birds.  The vast majority of mobile, multi-celled creatures are heterotrophs.  Magiotrophs are very similar to autotrophs except that they don't require anything other than magic to create organic material.  Most magiotrophs are magiotrophic bacteria, although there are some larger creatures that survive solely on magic, such as the feared disenchanter.  Some creatures cross these groups combining various feeding aspects.  Carnivorous plants are both autotrophic and heterotrophic since they can not live without either energy source, and many creatures are mixtures involving magiotrophic behavior.  On magical worlds, almost all creatures use some amount of magic as "free energy" to build tissue.  Those creatures that don't utilize magic as an energy source usually have a selective disadvantage, although in some worlds or magical deserts they have a selective advantage."[/blockquote]
It goes on like this for pages and pages.  I like how it is trying to help you design a world that is internally consistent and where the placement of everything makes sense from an ecological standpoint.  But, man, I don't know that I want to figure out which monsters are autotrophic, or magiotrophic, or whatever.  It's a bit much, me thinks, but I'm maybe 1/4 through with it, so maybe it gets less dry.  I'm wondering if anybody else has read any of the books in this series and what your opinions of them were.

http://www.xrpshop.citymax.com/page/page/3906392.htm

[Xeviat]

I have the free excerpts, and I particularly liked the one on map making. But I never went on to get the actual books. I think I will, though, based on this excerpt.

[Raelifin]

That excerpt kicks ass. I've never heard of them, but internal consistency is where it's at.

[Lmns Crn]

That looks like much more effort than I'd ever want to spend on the particular aspect of worldbuilding in question, honestly.

I mean, hell. You can get a perfectly workable sense of consistency and verisimilitude with just a little bit of forethought and reason. There's no need to completely reinvent biology, geology, ecology, astronomy, or any of the other sciences, just to justify your choices.

There comes a point where the diminishing returns from extra work just get completely negligible, after all.

[Nomadic]

I mean, hell. You can get a perfectly workable sense of consistency and verisimilitude with just a little bit of forethought and reason. There's no need to completely reinvent biology, geology, ecology, astronomy, or any of the other sciences, just to justify your choices.

There comes a point where the diminishing returns from extra work just get completely negligible, after all.

Come on wimp, where's your sense of spirit. Real world builders follow the god approach. If you aren't putting at least as much thought into your world as god... you aren't world building. You wussies make us real world builders look bad.

</joke rant>

[lionrampant]

In case anybody is interested, I got the book for real cheap from these people:
http://cgi.ebay.com/A-Magical-Society-Ecology-and-Culture-NEW-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ300204717524QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I will also note that the book is advertised as a D20 supplement, but there isn't any actual game stats in the book, so it could apply to world building for any fantasy game.

[Pair o' Dice Lost]

[...]There's no need to completely reinvent biology, geology, ecology, astronomy, or any of the other sciences, just to justify your choices.[...]

Then again, there are times when doing just that can be a great idea.  Why let the laws of physics as we know them limit you?

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Dice - that's probably the single best justification I've ever seen for rewriting those particular aspects of of a world.  Signature worthy if I wasn't so damned lazy all the time.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

I've used the city excerpt quite a bit while working on Salis Freeport. The Mapping guide I've used little because I already had the global mapping done, although I may well go back to it looking at smaller regions later. Both books (and the Silk Road) are intended for purchase. Don't know about the new Monster Builder stuff - I need to see if it's heavily d20 MMish (like it's predecessor) or very generic like the others - the lower priced environmental supplements to it look like the series could be promising. (I get the feeling that GURPS is a little weak in this particular area, at least compared to everything else they've fleshed out.) The old AD&D 2e World Builder's Guidebook is still an excellent resource (and includes tons of blank mapping sheets) if the two volumes are a bit pricey together (not so likely thanks to Lionrampant's $5 super-score on . . .Ecology & Culture tho'), but you can't beet the free excerpt prices. WBG is out of print, but still a dozen on Amazon (1 new for $25 even, some used cheaper, while one lunatic is asking $125 for "Used - Good"! it's not that collectible; all others below $30. . .); I found mine at a local game store.

[lionrampant]

I don't have lots of AD&D experience, so I'd never heard of the World Builder's Guidebook before.  Thanks the for the tip, I'll look into it.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

For those curious about such matters LiveScience posted today "The Real Story Behind the 'Roof of the World'," regarding new tectonic findings/theories about the formation of the Tibetan Plateau.

[lionrampant]

Cool stuff.  I'm currently in the process of trying to take some elements from the Ecology & Cultures book and apply them to my world.  It's a bit slow going.  Once I get something solid I'll let you know how it goes.

[Elemental_Elf]

I purchased the A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe book a few years back on discount at my local game store for $3. Best $3 I ever spent, lol! The book is great, it really helps/helped me develop more realistic worlds, or at least gave me much food for thought.  

[lionrampant]

So I have finished* the Ecology & Culture book.  Now that I have digested the whole thing, I can say that I would recommend it to anybody trying to create a campaign world that is based on an Earth-like world.  If you want to make a world thta is flat, with portals to the elemental plane of water absorbing all the water that flows off the edge of the world, with another portal in the middle that constantly pumps out new water, then this is not the book for you.  However, if you are interested in a world with normal** continents, wind currents, sea currents, etc., then there is a lot to like here.

I'm not going to use everything, though.  For example, there is a constant assumption that "magic" is a conscious entity, which I don't jive with.  A lot of stuff is good, though.  Another thing I'm not using is the discussion of how different races spring up in one place and then migrate around the world, meeting and fighting with other races as they go.  Thus, some races may still exist but be completely subservient to another race, or a race may die out completely.  I'ts not a bad idea at all, and it would be a cool little exercise to try to run the system as described.  However, for my campaign world I'm developing I determined what races were where primarily based on what would make for a fun game, so I'll just come up with some hack explanation for why things are the way they are, and say the gods intervened, or something.  If a player ever actually cares.

So, yeah, I'd recommend it.  The appendix is pretty good, too.  I liked the section on magical animals.  Not monsters to fight, just animals and plants and stuff that are effected by magic in one way or another, to help show that even though the world might follow natural laws most of the time, it still ain't Earth.


*FINISHED in this case meaning I've read everything but the rather long appendix.
**NORMAL in this case means it requires little to no magical intervention, due to following natural laws as they exist on Earth.