Gloria Q&A Log Thread

[LD]

Thank you all for attending the Question and Answer.
Here, collected, are some of the happenings from the two hours.

Is Gloria Satirical?
<Nomadic> I was going over gloria and I get a feeling that it's supposed to be satirical
 <LightDragon> Really?
 <LightDragon> What gave you that idea?
<Nomadic> :P
<Nomadic> mostly the holidays
<Nomadic> though a few other things
<Nomadic> (on that note I love the holidays)


<LightDragon> Well, Gloria certainly does have a humorous/satirical undertone to some extent, but to the residents of Gloria- everything is certainly serious. The holidays are  amusing simply because the are strange and different- Gloria's values are not really the same values that you will see in most Fantasy, and their values are also a bit different from everyday earth societies.
<LightDragon> I think that because Gloria is just so "different" and "strange" from what is expected or the initial way that people think about, they might find it amusing.
<LightDragon> That being said, I clearly put in jokes in every entry.
<LightDragon> Almost every paragraph has a hidden joke of some sort.
<Nomadic> yes in terms of satire I see it in the holidays and how they mock things found on earth
<LightDragon> But once again, everything is deathly serious to Gloria-residents.
<LightDragon> Think about it like Discworld.

<Nomadic> of course
<FREAKINSOVIETHORSE> Ah, Discworld
<FREAKINSOVIETHORSE> You instantly turned the awesome up to an infinite level by citing that as inspiration

Gloria's Flavor
<LightDragon> Remember when Discworld attained a printing press and a working postal service. Tthe world is a fantasy world that is undergoing a technological revolution... but it is not steampunk. (although I love steampunk)
<Steerpike> It seems to have a kind of early twentieth century flavor to it, politically
<LightDragon> You're right. I was going for the period 1870-1929 for the feel of invention.
<LightDragon> A lot of interesting biographies have been written about that period.
<Steerpike> heh that's actually my favorite literary period
<LightDragon> And they really inspired me-- that time period had an interesting view on life and progress.It seems so alien to us today. And that is what I am trying to recover in Gloria. I actually really like the mindset of that period.
<Steerpike> it comes through - the frontier of ideas
<LightDragon> In the meantime- Steerpike- which pieces do you enjoy from that period?
<Steerpike> I LOVE all the late gothic stuff that comes out of there - stevenson, stoker, wilde, chesterton, all those guys
<Steerpike> and its lovecraft's period
<LightDragon> Ah, GK Chesterton, a very interesting person. And Wilde's stuff was great as well.
<LightDragon> Robert Lewis Stevenson... Steerpike, have you ever considered doing a small project based on Treasure Island or castaways? (Although that's another topic)
<Steerpike> I'm reading The Man Who Was Thursday, it feels like Fight Club if it was written by Wilde almost... although Chesterton apparently had a dim view of Wilde
<LightDragon> It seems a bit different from your usual aesthetic.
<Steerpike> ooh that would be fun.

[ic=Humorous Break]
* Steerpike has joined #thecbg
* LightDragon greets Steerpike
* LightDragon now fears a Socialist Revolution. :eek!
 <Steerpike> heheh[/ic]


What to Read First To Introduce Oneself to Gloria
<FREAKINSOVIETHORSE> LD, admittedly it's been a very long time since I've last read anything Gloria. Assuming I was a first-time reader, what would be the things you'd want me to read first, and what would be the most important things to know about the setting?
<LightDragon> I did a quick publicity post here: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?72421.last Which I think hits on some of the more interesting parts of the setting- but not necessarily the most important (though some of them are important) and they do give the "feel"
<LightDragon> Combine reading that with reading the first post of the thread and you have a good feel for at least the capitalist part of Gloria.
<LightDragon> But there is more to Gloria than just the land of Gloria. There are, of course, the Socialist Lands. And... The Libertarian Pirate-Kingdoms...  Both places are a bit more bizarre and strange than Gloria. And I have detailed portions of the places.
<LightDragon> The other thing to know about Gloria is that it is not just a setting with fluff --I did some exploratory work with a magical system and a statistics/dice system.
<LightDragon> The systems are not yet complete- but they reflect my philosophy of design; the tools of the setting must fit the fluff of the setting to make it work.

Where Is Tikal?
 <Steerpike> is Tikal in teh libertarian lands or in Gloria?
<LightDragon> Tikal is in the libertarian lands... I should probably make a map some day.

Are The Socialists A Farce?
<sparkletwist> to me the socialists are what made it seem a little satirical, because they made it sound like sean hannity's version of socialism
<LightDragon> Sparkle: As for the Socialists... Yes, they are satirical... but not completely- they do have a workable society.
<LightDragon> It's just seen through the lens of a Gloria resident to some degree.
<LightDragon> The Socialists are generally based on a lot of Cultural Revolution and early Russian Revolution ideas.
<LightDragon> certain traits have been over-emphasized.
<LightDragon> for example:
<LightDragon> each city represents a virtue in OUR world
<LightDragon> (in opposition to gloria's 14 virtues- which are based on Benjamin Franklin's virtues)
 <LightDragon> Dretch (Equality)
<LightDragon> Soccath (Justice)
<LightDragon> Morbyl (Distribution)
<LightDragon> Morbyl "You have a duty to the whole world."
<LightDragon> Phaede-Oestral (Scientific-Development)
<LightDragon> Svain (Sacrifice)
<LightDragon> Each of the Socialist city-states tries to respect life in a different fashion.
<LightDragon> But to me personally and to all Gloria residents, this is clearly not the way to success.
Steerpike> right: they're very idealistic, potentially at the expense of the individual - they're ideological to the extreme.
<LightDragon> Yes- very idealistic- like everyone in the world... and the problem is that people take advantage of them.
<LightDragon> (Although even the socialist landers realize this-- and that's why they are not farcical.)
 <LightDragon> one of their holidays' explains the tension in their hearts:
 <LightDragon> Day of Sharing (March 1) [Socialists Only]
On this day, those of the Socialist philosophy give what they have to others; doors are held open to all who wish to enter; gifts are made (within reason), and the less fortunate are taken care of. The day is supposed to be one of happiness, but often the guests overstay their welcome or become too greedy. Even the nicest Socialist has sometimes been pushed too far on this bittersweet day of celebration.
<LightDragon> I should probably change the word "often overstay" to "sometimes"
<LightDragon> to make it less farcical, though.
<sparkletwist> (they still do come across as a bit farcical, but that could also be because you're writing from the perspective of a Gloria resident)
<LightDragon> Steerpike- you are right.
<LightDragon> Sparkle- that's true. Perhaps I should make that a little more obvious. Maybe that would soften the blow a little?
<sparkletwist> yes, i think so. :)


(Lack of) Monsters in Gloria
<Llum> there doesn't seem to be a whole lot in the way of monsters in Gloria, any particular reason?
<LightDragon> Monsters... Well, I have given some thought to that.
<LightDragon> I might add some monsters, but beyond the flora and faunae of Gloria I am not sure it needs monsters.
<LightDragon> I suppose adventurers need something to confront and the other major races aren't exactly villanous. Especially the slake... which doesn't really move. And the Glick is just a glorified Hummingbird. The Etterati can be insidious if they want to; and the Floaters can be troublesome (eating the dirt out from beneath a city)
<sparkletwist> oh and by the way, i like the idea of "monsters" just being the flora/fauna. i usually do that too. a distinction seems odd.

War and Military in Gloria
<LightDragon> but there isn't too much in the way of war/conflict in Gloria...
<LightDragon> I think I need to cover the militaries- but frankly, I don't think Gloria would have much of a standing army.
<LightDragon> That would be too costly and potentially too oppressive.
<LightDragon> Standing armies didn't become too common utnil after 1812.

<Steerpike> I'd imagine mercenaries would be big, somehow - seems to fit the mindset
<Nomadic> yea
<LightDragon> Hm. I think I might add that- a little Venetian style.
<Steerpike> probably employed by private inidividuals/companies
<LightDragon> or Blackwater, etc.
<LightDragon> like during the Crusades.
<LightDragon> Even though the 1870s saw the construction of large standing armies, I really think that doesn't precisely suit Gloria's thematics... so I think I'll go the mercenary route.

What Does Gloria Mean By "Conservative-Valued"
<sparkletwist> my question was, your thread says "it's about time we had a detailed, positive, conservative-valued world." i'm curious what you meant by "conservative valued", because it does seem a bit radical in some ways. i mean, it'd be hard to say fantasy has a liberal bias, except because a lot of it is weird. but gloria is weird too, in its own way. ;) if you mean like american republican party conservatism, maybe, but then again, there is so m
<sparkletwist> so what did you mean by "conservative"?
<LightDragon> Well, the word "Conservative" is problematic.
<LightDragon> And I probably should be very careful when I use it.
<LightDragon> Because in a way, Gloria is very liberal. liberal economically, liberal with ideas, etc. But it is certainly NOT socialist. The terms have taken on new meanings in the USA... different from their original intents. What I was trying to achieve with Gloria was a general response to what I saw as the underlying gloom and doom of China Mieville's works.

LightDragon> I like China Mieville. But his works are generally written to be dispiriting about the individual's place in society. and in fact, a lot of modern literature follows that trend.

There are some "Conservative" authors like Vernor Vinge and the Military Sci-Fi people who constantly celebrate the uniqueness and power of the individual and of business and society
<sparkletwist> so maybe a better way of putting it was... you wanted a setting where individualism and entrepenurial spirit can still thrive?
<LightDragon> But the general trend in literature seems to be to place the human individual in a sense of isolation.
<LightDragon> in an existential dillema.
<Steerpike> Heh would you say that jack half-a-prayer is in any way an exception to Mieville's pessemism cocnerning individual power?
<Steerpike> he's pretty ubermensch in some ways
<LightDragon> Sparkle: Yes. That is what I wanted.
<sparkletwist> yeah, but then you have guys like heinlein, who could be classified as quite "conservative," but they're all about servicing society and whatnot, too. or at least doing your patriotic duty. but i don't think something like the starship troopers model would go over too well in gloria, either.
<LightDragon> Well, Jack Half-A-Prayer didn't end too well.
<LightDragon> And his legacy, though it became a legend... was mixed at best
<LightDragon> he couldn't fight city hall.
<Steerpike> well, okay, but he changed things, he precipitated change
<LightDragon> at best the runagate rampant could flee to the hinterlands (in Iron Council- I think?)
 <LightDragon> But only change by moving west- by fleeing and going away. I Think his character is quite tragic In the ancient greek sense.
<TheMeanestGuest> no spoiling!
<LightDragon> o.
<Steerpike> okay, that'd be a huge digression anyways
<TheMeanestGuest> I haven't read iron council, I have it sitting here on my desk =p
<Steerpike> it's good, though odd, I won't spoil
<LightDragon> Sadly, it was my least favorite of the series... but that may be because of the western themes and the more epic scope. It seemed like a long series of vignettes. But back to the topic...
<sparkletwist> so would you call gloria generally "optimistic" in tone? society is advancing, our best days are ahead, "it's morning in america"?
<LightDragon> (Remember the scene I'm thinking of... with the dirt farmers?)
<LightDragon> Yes Sparkle, Gloria is always advancing.
<LightDragon> and things move Fast.
<LightDragon> I wrote an introductory story for Gloria that I think is in its first post .
<LightDragon> The story is about 300-400 words that are told in a single breath... with only one period.
<sparkletwist> yeah, i tried to read it, and didn't bother. because it's one gigantic run-on sentence. :P

History of the World
<Steerpike> I don't know how many questions are stacked up, but I was wondering more about the political history of the world - did Gloria and the Socialist Lands both arise out of fuedal states?
<LightDragon> Ah yes. I've been considering the history of the world- becuase history is key.
<LightDragon> Beyond the struggle between the Faithful and the Demons, I have not written much on that.
<Steerpike> even Marx would agree with you there (perhaps especially Marx) heheh
<LightDragon> History really will shape how the world is currently formed.
<LightDragon> Let's take a thesis and an antithesis to create a synthesis...
<LightDragon> Thank you Hegel.
<Steerpike> I was going to bring up dialectics about Jack but I restrained myself
<LightDragon> Well, the Socialist lands probably had a feudal past.
<LightDragon> the whole city-state feeling seems to conjure up a background of that nature.
<LightDragon> even though now they are more anarcho-syndicalists (see: Monty Python and the Holy Grail)
<LightDragon> The libertarian lands were probably always fairly barbaric- with warlord like tribal leaders.
<LightDragon> who managed to shape people up and form them into societies.
<LightDragon> But Gloria... the most important part... It is difficult to think what they mmay have been.
<LightDragon> Gloria is really a very vast land- and it presents me with a huge problem.
<LightDragon> How can a society by cosmopolitan and inventive if they don't have other cultures trading with them?
<LightDragon> I think that each city in Gloria is still fairly independent with its own culture.
 <LightDragon> I imagine it currently as a confederation- like Germany in the 1800s or the South in America in the 1860s... but more like germany (the former?)
<LightDragon> I think that in the past, when the Faithful had influence, there was a sort of Oligarchy.
 <LightDragon> The idea of progress was not as strong.And freedom was not as strong.
<Steerpike> like Holy Roman Empire Germany, or actual Germany?
<LightDragon> HRE Germany.
<LightDragon> But optimism was strong- they defeated the Demons.
<LightDragon> I think that as faith collapsed and reason began to triumph- Gloria shifted to what it is today-
<LightDragon> each confederate province developed on its own and self-strengthened, but they always saw themselves as "one people"
<LightDragon> united by their historical defeat of the demons.
<LightDragon> And united by their hope and optimism.


Nationalism, Liberalism, and Progress
<Steerpike> that's an interesting aspect - the nationalism.  It seems to me there's a huge tension between classical liberalism and nationalism
<LightDragon> What do you see the problem as being?
<LightDragon> Why can the two not co-exist?
<LightDragon> Because they would quell ideas?
<Steerpike> well, it seems to me that nationalism starts to elevate the idea of the State or People above that of the individual. the idea of national duty superceding an individual's will
<LightDragon> In Gloria the Socialist landers do have several outposts of ideas... consider them like Jews in Germany after WWI.
<LightDragon> So even though they are reviled, and feared to a great degree- people might still do business with them... alternatively, you could consider them like a disfavored religious cult.
<LightDragon> The cult might get adherents from time to time and people might buy their things, but everyone thinks they are ##$# weird.
<sparkletwist> [And the group is] soon to be in big trouble? Like the jews in germany after WWI?
<LightDragon> Well, it is possible that the socialists in Gloria might be in big trouble. I don't see the Gloria residents considering them a threat- but if Mr. Stierpiek (our friend's alter-ego in Gloria) gets together a force to overthrow the power of gloria... then maybe there might be a witch-hunt.
<LightDragon> The hunt would probably be more like 1950s US McCarthyism though.
<LightDragon> than Nazi Germany's response.
<Steerpike> or the Soviet hunting of the Kulaks or whatever they called the "blooduscking capitalists"
<LightDragon> Gloria lacks a standing army... so I could see a mercenary force, hired by Socialists and supplemented by a 5th column pulling something off. Maybe not succeeding, but doing enough to frighten the citizenry.
<LightDragon> Well, the national duty in Gloria is the individual's will.
<sparkletwist> or enough to really scare the people into line, if some politician decides the people are just a little too free
<LightDragon> They are just well acculturated to the society's values.
<sparkletwist> red scare!
<LightDragon> Although some things are slipping- like the Faith
<LightDragon> But Gloria residents are like Americans in the 1950s- very loyal  the country; or like Chinese in the 2000s- they know the country has some problems, but it is their country and they are proud of it and their culture.
<LightDragon> Both socieites are very nationalistic, and the US in the 1950s saw large economic growth (I think)
<LightDragon> and china in the 2000s also saw the same.
<sparkletwist> yeah, postwar boom
<LightDragon> well, china in the 2000s wouldn't fit with the postwar boom idea.
<LightDragon> to explain-away the conformity as a drag to the economy.

Socialist Revolution!
<sparkletwist> who's this mr. stierpiek fellow?
<Steerpike> Sparkle, I mentioned I'd like to run a socialist revolution game in Gloria so Light Dragon created this character who runs experimental socialist banking and stuff
 <LightDragon> If we do an IRC game and steerpike plays- I've been thinking of having that guy and the Professor in Tientan play a role. :o
<LightDragon> Depending on what people want to do, Steerpike might be able to have his socialist revolution. (!) Although that would be contrary to everything Gloria stands for.
 * LightDragon scolds.
<Steerpike> it'd be a ridiculously uphill battle

[ic=Another Break]
<sparkletwist> and so if you want a gloria character you have to make your name look sort of like pidgin germano-swedish? :P
<LightDragon> Here's his bnak:
<LightDragon> The Cooperative - A socialist experiment. The people who borrow from the cooperative enter into a way of life. They agree to lend all their possessions to everyone else in the cooperative. Each member gains a list of each other member's address and all their known possessions, from their home to their dining utensils. Everything is shared, from items, to marriage partners (if willing). The Cooperative is gaining in popularity, all of which is part of an expatriate Socialist-Lander's (Sevastus Stierpiek) nefarious plan to gradually subvert the city's selfish capitalist values.
<LightDragon> Ah, Stierpiek just seemed suitable. I didn't want to use Steerpike and Stierpiek sounded sufficiently nefarious. :)
<sparkletwist> otto von stierpiek
<Steerpike> bwahahaha[/ic]

[ic=Break III]
 <LightDragon> Another famous bank is this one:
<LightDragon> ITC (Ilimden Trading Company)- ITC also operates massive stock operations, trading in cattle futures and property. ITC owns a great deal of property around the city and is constantly trading the property to its bank members- convincing them that the investment will always increase in value since more and more people stream into Gloria each year. This ponzi scheme seems as though it will continue to bring in revenues at least for the next few years since IIC has not yet gotten greedy; a usual guaranteed "flip" to other IIC members is only a gain of 5% on investment per year. The company is uniquely well managed and has yet to have gotten greedy with its investment promises-- perhaps since its CEO, Mars Ilimden lost much of his inheritance thirty years ago during the waning days of the great "stone animal friend" pyramid scheme trading and collecting scam.
<LightDragon> pet rocks.
<LightDragon> He lost his inheritance investing in pet rocks.
<LightDragon> That's gloria at its root.
<LightDragon> Remember the Dutch Tulip Trading Scandal.
<sparkletwist> hehe
<LightDragon> Or the Spanish (or Portugese) war concerning hat sizes?
<LightDragon> Both of those are pure gloria.
<LightDragon> although the hat sizes thing is more of a libertarian lands' controversy.
<LightDragon> But I meant "Gloria setting"
<Steerpike> oh those whacky capitalists[/ic]


Difficulty of Writing Gloria
<LightDragon> It is actually a bit difficult to write Gloria well.
<LightDragon> I can whip out the Socialists and Libertarians much faster.
<LightDragon> Gloria is just difficult to get the feeling right, becuase I don't want it to be a farce and it has to be real- which means that there are lots of variables to consider.
<LightDragon> Every question I answer makes 3 others arise.

The Ubermensch in Gloria
<Steerpike> Nietzche has been hinted at - how are you envisioning the ubermensch in Gloria?
 <Steerpike> a magical being, or just an idea??
<LightDragon> Ah, the ubermensch and phrenology are 2 of the themes I wrote about in the first post that I have yet to get to.
<LightDragon> I was thinking about having it be an ideal.
<sparkletwist> yeah, in a society where magic is real, you might have some bizarre experiments to try to actually come up with the ubermensch
 <LightDragon> Although I do not like Frankenstein (I think it was poorly written) but Imagine a sort of Frankenstein/ that white wolf game about the "created" beings hybrid
<LightDragon> So the Gloria residents are trying to improve themselves a lot like the culture of the 1920s
<LightDragon> especially in germany.
 <LightDragon> Do you recall the "Cult of hte Body"
<LightDragon> it was a big thing around the last turn of the century.
<LightDragon> People would work out, and obsess over their body sizes.
<LightDragon> I think that a lot of gloria residents will try that-
<LightDragon> just like athletes (runners, weightlifters) were huge celebrities back in the 1920s
<LightDragon> (javeliners, etc.)
<LightDragon> not because they were fun to  watch necessarily but because they were the ideals...
<LightDragon> The cult of the body, I think, is one reason the Olympics came back.
<LightDragon> But the second trend of the Ubermensch idea
<LightDragon> is the grafting and "improving bodies" idea and building golems
<LightDragon> like the Color Work Creatures.

The Color Work Creatures... Jazz Golems
<Nomadic> I love the color work creatures
<LightDragon> Thanks.
<Nomadic> what gave you the idea for them
 <LightDragon> Every setting needs a Golem or automaton of some sort...
<LightDragon> And I looked to one of Gloria's inspirations.
<LightDragon> Jazz. And Industriousness.
<Nomadic> heh a jazz golem
<Nomadic> at least it wasn't a calzone golem
<Steerpike> awesome
<TheMeanestGuest> mmm
<TheMeanestGuest> calzone golem
<sparkletwist> hehe, jazz golem
<Nomadic> so do people ever stop and listen to them as they work
<LightDragon> I thought of what sort of creature could reflect Gloria's values best, and I thought that a "jazz golem that bled colors and music" best reflected the opportunity, excitement, spirit, and chaotic creation of the world.
<LightDragon> Hm. That's a good question... I think people just sort of take them for granted.
<LightDragon> You know, like how you hear a car humming on the road. Or an air conditioner blowing.
<Nomadic> yea
<LightDragon> Both sounds can be, in small doses, beautiful... but they aren't really analogous.
<LightDragon> since jazz always changes.
 <Nomadic> though those things don't have the "artistic" quality that something that spouts jazz does (but I do get your point)
<LightDragon> and those are monotonous.
<LightDragon> I think people definitely notice the color work creatures.
<LightDragon> and I think they appreciate their music.
<LightDragon> I can see people with nothing better to do stopping and listening to them.
<LightDragon> but most business people dont' have the time to "stop and smell the roses"
<LightDragon> They really need to listen more to Alabama's Song "I'm in A Hurry and Don't Know Why"

Music Mediums in Gloria "Blind DJs"
<Nomadic> so what sort of music mediums does gloria have (radios, vinyl?)
<LightDragon> Live.
<Nomadic> wax records have been around since the 1800s at least
<LightDragon> ah, there are records.
LightDragon> like gramaphones.
<LightDragon> but no radios.
<LightDragon> Many blind have begun to be employed in Shimmer Discos- places where the Shimmer-Impressed sounds of bands and musical artists are replayed. One famous blind woman- Siriana Loquatious- first invented the style of "Shimmer scratching" or placing hands on a record and feeling the grooves, then "twitching" them to achieve a more harmonious quivering sound.
<LightDragon> Many blind people who have a heightened sense of hearing have found employment in the Discos as "Scratch Shimmerers", or "Shims".
<LightDragon> They have DJs but no radios.
<Nomadic> haha
 <LightDragon> So socially they are the same as 1990s Earth; but technologically they are 1890s.
<Nomadic> awesome
<TheMeanestGuest> are they close to radio?
<Nomadic> I got a picture of an old blind women at a techno dj-athon
<Nomadic> lol
<LightDragon> I would argue that they are close to Radio- the Shimmer Scientists can do amazing things... but I am afraid to allow them to invent radio- that will radically change society.
<LightDragon> So many things will have to be re-thought out.
<LightDragon> With radio comes an easy method of communications.
<LightDragon> And with an easy method of communication means the homogenization of culture.
<LightDragon> I don't think they have telephones either.

Culture in Gloria and Culture in the Real World
(In Which We Discuss Clubbing)
<LordVreeg> I thought i remembered that,  I was very interesrted in the berlin parallels
<LightDragon> Berlin Parallels?
<LordVreeg> yes
<LightDragon> In regards to what? Sorry, I don't know what you are referring to?
<LightDragon> And the World of Gloria is certainly NOT homogenous.
<LordVreeg> I was speaking to the nightlife, restaurants, jazz, ubermensch
 <LightDragon> Ah, yes- like old Berlin, or old Shanghai, or old Buenos Aires for that matter.
<LordVreeg> yes
<LightDragon> The 1920s world's cities were interesting... I wonder if they were more cosmopolitican in some ways than todays.
<LightDragon> becuase the cities were smaller
<LightDragon> and different strata of society interacted more.
<LightDragon> Nowadays, in the West- unless you have $$$ you don't go to clubs.
<LightDragon> and clubs are so stratified in age-
<Llum> depends on the club
<LightDragon> back in the 1920s you could have people from age 17-70 in a "jazz-like' club.
<LordVreeg> they were a mix of cosmopolitan and local, the last era of that particular mix
<LightDragon> In China's port cities, to some degree, I think they have recaptured the limitless feeling of adventure in their places.
<Llum> etertainment was less varied back then too
 <LightDragon> Yes- you've got it Vreeg.
<sparkletwist> you go to clubs to be photographed by the paparazzi
<LightDragon> well, less varied sort of; but there was more nuance back then.
<LordVreeg> it would have lasted longer, but the depression ruined much of it, and then WW2 mixed everything
<LightDragon> Because there was less variety (no computer games) people had a shared culture
<LordVreeg> and I know clubs...
 <LightDragon> everyone knew about scott joplin
<Nomadic> WW2 was a major shifting point certainly
 <LightDragon> and the great musicians and artists of the day.
<sparkletwist> old shanghai was wonderfully fun and cosmopolitan as long as you weren't chinese
<LordVreeg> and a mixing point
<LightDragon> Sparkle- very true. (But the rich chinese did fairly well, I think)
<LordVreeg> ST, boy do you have TAHT right
<LordVreeg> they were still a merchant class
<LightDragon> (the few of them that there were... but TV Soong I thought did well)

<LightDragon> there was the banking class- TV Soong, et. alia.

The Downtrodden in Gloria
<sparkletwist> so the chinese angle leads to a question, what about the downtrodden in gloria? they can't all be capitalist and prosperous.
<LightDragon> The downtroddden have been covered to some degree.
<LightDragon> I did a bit on the disabled.and the unemployed.In Gloria Cities
Even in Paradise, there will be those who are lost, who are hampered in some fashion. The poor will always be with us, because some people are just not as accomplished as others, or fate placed them at a more difficult starting point, or they suffered punishment for crime and now must begin anew.
<LightDragon> I took some inspirations for the treatment of the disambulatory from some things I read concerning the disabled in the Congo.
<LightDragon> (how they became rowers)
<LightDragon> I also covered workers comp and insurance (although it is a sort of dog-eat-dog world there; you should really buy your own insurance)<LightDragon> Handicapped Access is uneven.
<LightDragon> Handicapped Access is far from mandatory in Gloria. However, a fair percentage of shops are accessible with ramps, for the simple reason that the merchants realized that to maximize patronage potential, in certain cases it is cheaper to make the businesses accessible. Indeed, at times they will need to cart in large boxes or furniture and a ramp would be most useful.
<LightDragon> However, this means that the majority of "handicapped" access to buildings is in the back of the places and is often obscured by boxes and crates that need to be moved when patrons seek to enter a building.
<LightDragon> Many Gloria businesses have a "Disabled Access" sign posted in their front window, often with instructions on how to get around the back.
 <LightDragon> Still, not all businesses can profitably operate a disabled access, so buildings that are more than two stories are often inaccessible unless they have a gear-powered "Lift", like the ultra-modern Chambers of Commerce.
<LightDragon> And I also covered unemployed in Gloria.and Underemployed.
<LordVreeg> yes.  and nicely
<LightDragon> Thanks.
LightDragon> I still haven't addressed (at length) the plight of the poor
<LightDragon> (no study like Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed"


Slavery?
<LordVreeg> though the indentured incorporated needs expansion and clarification
<LightDragon> Oh yes, the Bank. My nod to Merchant of Venice and 1600s USA.
<LightDragon> And Gloria's brush with Slavery.
<LightDragon> One of the "darker" spots in gloria.
<LordVreeg> often is
<LightDragon> If you sell your labor, then they own the product of what you produce.
<LightDragon> From how I conceive them, they arent' horrible- they don't force you into debtor's prison or to row huge cogs in the ocean
<LightDragon> but they do garnish your wages.
<LightDragon> or they have you work their "special work projects"
 <LightDragon> so if you are unemployed- it might actually be a good idea to work for the Indentured company.
<LightDragon> You'll always be in debt probably.
<LightDragon> but you'll have a guaranteed home, food, and a job.
<LightDragon> This could have some social ramifications if the Indentured Inc. starts forming an army with their servants.
<LightDragon> that might make an interesting adventure seed-
<LightDragon> an abuse of power?
<LightDragon> Thanks for the question.
<LordVreeg>   anytime. abuse of power is a good overarching issue in a evolving place like Gloria
<sparkletwist> it might even be perceived by some people as.. socialism!!! :o

Entertainment Fads
<Nomadic> so what are the current fads in entertainment?
<LightDragon> In Gloria?
<Nomadic> yes
<LightDragon> 1- Humans inspired by the Slake invented the Zither and the Shimmerthizer (a synthesizer) to mimic the Slakes' sounds.
<LightDragon> And Jazz music and music with these things are very popular
<LightDragon> :!.
<LightDragon> So... entertainment fad #2.
<LightDragon> Some people like to watch this, but it's more "underground" so to say.
LightDragon> (Har-de-har-har)
<LightDragon> Floaters' main form of art is that of performance. By manipulating the airflow in enclosed rooms, the Floaters find ways to shape themselves into myriad aesthetic forms.
<LightDragon> They watch the floaters perform.
 <LightDragon> Underground.
<LightDragon> Literally.
 <LightDragon> sometimes at Floater's Paradise.
 <LightDragon> Floater's Paradise - *** "They Make Mud Appetizing" is what the commonfolk have to say about the "Paradise" and that is basically true. The Floater's Paradise serves common Floater recipes, like dirt turnip, battered worms, and over 300 varieties of dirt (when combined with 200 varieties of spices, this amounts to millions of permutations.) The food is top-quality, but far too strange to a human's taste to merit more than three stars. Trendy youths and floaters can be found in the "Paradise." ($$$$$)
<LightDragon> That's all I can think of for now.
<LightDragon> The really trendy place is the libertarian lands.
LightDragon> They are so trendy... A style can be out of date in a week.
sparkletwist> that is so last week
 <sparkletwist> sounds like high school
<LightDragon> ah, I forgot to move the update on the libertarian lands to the front page.
<LightDragon> Description of fashions : The innovations of Tikal are myriad, and the fads flash though the city so quick that by the time Well-fjord's deepest denizens of the salt mine learn the latest, the merchant-class and the upper crust of society have already changed their styles (having worn them for less than two weeks). The profusion of scrappers, and untaxed inventive forces fosters a cauldron of creativity as people throw together styles and fabrics slapdash in an attempt to appeal to the locals' overtaxed sensory nodes. On the streets, all types of styles can be seen- from peacock-stuffed Mad-Hatter top hats, to shaved heads with silver dice bored into the skin above the skull (a painful fad inspired by the Dicemen), to a brief flirtation with public nudity, and a slightly longer fascination with body paint (that persists among many denizens today), to the somewhat bizarre "Refusewear" and "Toilettarb" periods.
<LightDragon> I have some links on page 2 to real-life examples of Libertarian fashions.

<LightDragon> Sparkle- Haha.
<LightDragon> that sort of is the Libertarian lands- it's like high school- survival of the fittest (or survival of the meanest)
<LightDragon> Although compassion does play a part- nice people can get ahead...
<LightDragon> they just have to be shrewd.

What Character in Gloria Would I Play?
<Steerpike> Okay - when the current questions have run their course -  if you were a player in a Gloria campaign, who would you play?
<sparkletwist> mr. karl von leitdregun
<LightDragon> Haha.
<LightDragon> Just for the novelty, I might play a Hijra-
<LightDragon> A wildcatter who is exploring for shimmer wells
<LightDragon> on 'Shimmer' the Jungle-continent
<LightDragon> who has to confront disease, help heal compatriots, help extract minerals, and then confront claim-jumpers
 <LightDragon> and mercenaries.
<LightDragon> and who THEN discovers the slavery of several of his kind
 <LightDragon> and has to rescue them.
<LightDragon> But if I was to play someone IN the city of Gloria...
<LightDragon> It's a tough decision...
 <LightDragon> I'm torn between an Advocate (Orator)
<LightDragon> or a Designer.
 <LightDragon> The Advocate would be like a persuasive/charismatic character
 <LightDragon> And The designer would sort of be like an artificer.

[ic=Enlightenment 1 1/2 hours into the session]
 <TheMeanestGuest> wait, is this the Q&A?
<Llum> yes
<TheMeanestGuest> that explains all the gloria.
[/ic]

Goals For Players
<LightDragon> Something to understand is that Gloria's goals are not necessarily the same as those in the ordinary DnD or Roleplaying game.
<LightDragon> You CAN be an adventurer and I'm certain that most people will want to play as one.
<LightDragon> But in Gloria, the goals are often to increase weath, to increase happiness.
<LightDragon> to increase inventions, to persuade people to join your ideas.
 <sparkletwist> adventurers like doing that
<sparkletwist> especialy increasing wealth
<LC> I like that the setting allows for such a broad array of goals.
<LightDragon> I'm trying to make a system where you gain points for being oratorically persuasive.
<LightDragon> For example, Steerpike would gain experience points for convincing someone through roleplaying that they should become a socialist.
<LightDragon> Thanks LC.
<LightDragon> Since Gloria has no standing armies and no monsters... fighting is really in the background- Gloria's conflicts are mainly about ideas.
<LightDragon> You can, of course, rob a bank or defend a bank.
<LightDragon> But the thing I was hoping to make exciting is to have a party administering to people who have something like the 'spanish influenza'
 <LightDragon> or malaria (like 1914 panama canal)
 <LightDragon> and then have another party go collect taxes in the city of Shimmer and try to do a proper tax assessment (by crawling on walls, avoiding traps, some people who try to stop them)
 <LightDragon> etc.


A LONG Discussion on Currency
(Edited)
<sparkletwist> speaking of wealth, what are your thoughts on money? based on your background i'm assuming that there would be ardent supporters of the gold standard
 <LightDragon> I just did something on money, let me check it out.
<LightDragon> I think that the 'progressives' liked silver.
<sparkletwist> ok, a precious-metal standard, as opposed to fiat money
<LightDragon> Willilam Jennings Bryan's '˜cross of gold' speech, for example.
<LightDragon> and I think Theodore roosevelt didn't like gold either (but I could be mistaken)
<LightDragon> ah, here it  is:
<LightDragon> Currency
<LightDragon> Currency in Gloria is backed by the Glorious Silver, although there have been arguments to replace Silver with Shimmer-- since Shimmer is far more useful to society than the sparkling silver metal.
<LightDragon> The actual currency which people use however, is the Glorious Tin- an octagonal shaped bit that rings when hit. The unique ringing sound is what makes the Glorious Tin difficult to replicate. When the Glorious Tins are created, they are imbued with pockets of air into which the Tinmaker inserts several ball bearings. Thus, when the Tins are struck against metal, the ball bearings jump and make the ringing sound.
<LightDragon> The process is quite difficult to replicate and since all Glorious Tins are produced at three mints- one in Gloria, one in Tientan, and one in XXX, they all have the same unique sound placement each time when struck-- to one with a good ear, fakes are easy to tell.
<LightDragon> so Fiat currency, but it is backed.
sparkletwist> oh, so it is fiat money, essentially
 <sparkletwist> backed by what? silver?
<LightDragon> Silver.
<sparkletwist> is it actually redeemable for silver?

<LightDragon> Maybe someone can answer this question for me-
<LightDragon> in real life- why is Gold the backing currency?
<LightDragon> Just because it glitters? It doesn't seem to have much purpose other than looking pretty?
<sparkletwist> because gold was historically the medium of exchange
<LightDragon> it can't be formed into a weapon?
<sparkletwist> gold is extremely useful in electronics, but it's not like they knew that back then
<Nomadic> precious metals are were often valuable simply because they were pretty
<sparkletwist> why certain metals are precious is a completely different issue, i was looking at it more from an economics standpoint
<sparkletwist> it's probably ok just to say "gold is valuable because it is" if that's all you want to do, hehe
<Nomadic> why do humans wear jewellry made from shining metals and transluscent stones? because it looks pretty to them
Nomadic> and that fact gives such things an inherrent value
<LightDragon> Hm. Then can silver be used for weapons?
 <LightDragon> Or anything practical- that's why I chose silver
<LightDragon> I saw the Gloria residents as more practical than Earth residents.
<Nomadic> with the technology you have... I can't think of anything
<Nomadic> I might be missing something though
<sparkletwist> if they based currencies on weapon metals they'd use bronze and iron :P
<Nomadic> yes
<TheMeanestGuest> silver forks are good weapons in specific situations.
<Nomadic> rofl
 <LightDragon> Maybe I'll change it to bronze then?

<TheMeanestGuest> how is currency handled in the socialist nations?

OOPS. FORGOT TO ANSWER THIS ONE. TODO.

<LightDragon> But I'm certain silver was used for somethingk.
<Nomadic> instead of bronze I would go with a more basic material such as copper or tin
<Nomadic> haha
<Nomadic> your coins are tin right...
<Nomadic> you know they might be valuable just because they are made out of a valuable metal
<Nomadic> like gold coins
 <LightDragon> Hm. Maybe then there's no need for fiat.
 <LightDragon> It can just be a tin standard.
<sparkletwist> you'd have to haul around a lot of tin
 <LightDragon> But the only usable tin for currency is the 'specially' made tin.
<LightDragon> Tin doesn't weigh much, I think.
 <Nomadic> no
 <Nomadic> certainly not near as much as gold
 <sparkletwist> if the money is backed by a precious metal, it isn't really fiat money, anyway
 <Nomadic> yea
 <TheMeanestGuest> coins are made mostly of nickel in america and canada.
<sparkletwist> and zinc
<LightDragon> okay- I could swear that tin is used in some coins.
 <LightDragon> Due to pricing of nickel.
<Steerpike> heh this reminds me of the dirigible-fuel discussion from CE's Q&A
<Nomadic> well tin would be fine
<Nomadic> it doesn't weigh much
<Nomadic> it woul be viable, unlike the gold currency of DnD
<Nomadic> lol
 <LightDragon> gotcha.
<sparkletwist> it doesn't weigh much but you'd need a lot of coins
<sparkletwist> tin doesn't have nearly the "inherent value" of gold
<Nomadic> depends on how valuable it is
<Nomadic> not on earth
<LightDragon> sparkle- in Gloria gold isn't really worth that much.
<Nomadic> but gloria isn't earth
 <LightDragon> They're more practical people. If they can use it- it's worth money.
 <Nomadic> tin might be quite valuable to them
 <LightDragon> If they cannot, then it is not.
 <sparkletwist> if they have anything resembling electronics, gold is valuable
<LightDragon> But they don't really.


Technology in Gloria
<LightDragon> They have Shimmer- which is like oil.
<Nomadic> their tech level is late 1800s right
<LightDragon> Yes.
<LightDragon> but no telephone.
 <LightDragon> or morse code keyers.
<Nomadic> electricity?
<LightDragon> sort of. It's 'magic though' I think.
<Nomadic> k
<LightDragon> It's powered by shimmer.

Back to Currency...
<Nomadic> yea I think a copper or tin standard would be viable
<Nomadic> a copper one would be even moreso if your magic acts like electricity
<sparkletwist> gold conducts better than copper
<sparkletwist> if they're practical, gold would be worth more :P
<Nomadic> yes but copper has practical uses beyond conduction
 <LightDragon> Yes, that's about it- if they have electricity (which I have yet to discuss)- it's all powered by shimmer in some fashion. 'a wizard did it!'
<Nomadic> gold doesn't (except in modern situations)
 <sparkletwist> you were talking about electricity.
<Nomadic> I was talking about the value of a metal
 <LightDragon> Thanks for the advice Nomadic and Sparkletwist. I think I might use either tin or copper now
 <LightDragon> and delete the section on silver.
 <LightDragon> copper's conductive qualities are intriguing.
 <LightDragon> especially for future shimmer use.


Who Would the Players Like to Play As?
 <LightDragon> Now, to turn LC's question back on SP/LC anyone who wants to answer- who would you like to adventure as and where or what themes would you like to take on?
<sparkletwist> there's also the issue of what's scarce and what isn't, if the distribution of different metals is radically different than earth's, that would also affect the value
 <Nomadic> @sparkle - most definately
<Nomadic> @LD - I'd love to adventure as a nomad if that makes sense... perhaps a member of a group that goes around "maintaining" gloria for fame and/or riches
<sparkletwist> this isn't twitter
 <Nomadic> their only home being the vessel they call home :P
<Steerpike> I would love to play as an eccentric etetrai babbling about Cahos Theory - the "Giles" character with a wealth of occult knowledge, ironic since etterai are so young
<sparkletwist> hehe
<Nomadic> lol
<LightDragon> Great. :)
 <sparkletwist> i'd play as a nefarious villainess with a pseudo-germano-swedish name
<Nomadic> you'd wear black leather right
 <LightDragon> What sort of villainess?
<Nomadic> and a monocle

Women's Rights
<sparkletwist> unless of course women have no rights :O
 <LightDragon> A socialist? or old money who doesn't spend it? (A miser is a terrible thing to be-socially)
<Steerpike> i'm pretty sure its egalitarian in Gloria
<LightDragon> No. Women are fine in Gloria- more workers...
<sparkletwist> how socialist

Economic Problems of Marriage
<LightDragon> But in real life and in gloria- women's liberation makes it more expensive to live alone with only one paycheck.
<LightDragon> If marriage is common.
<LightDragon> and if sharing the marriage currency is common.
<LightDragon> Becuase two paychecks= more than one- therefore a 'united' family can afford more than a single person.
<LightDragon> so if families are small-
<LightDragon> there would necessarily be inflation.
<LightDragon> if families are large, there wouldn't be because the money woudl go to childccare and children.
<LightDragon> But if the families are small, then the married people would have greater economic power...
<sparkletwist> a lot of that has to do with what their attitudes toward childcare are (and what they've developed to aid in that)
Steerpike> large families breed their own economic problems, though
<Steerpike> global population is already way too high, given the resources we have
<LightDragon> Of course. This makes it very hard for single parents though.
<LightDragon> Addressing the 'underclass' in gloria- I may have to take on single parents next.
<LightDragon> they are probably in fairly dire straits.
<Steerpike> mmm, agreed - but surely the solution can't be a return to traditional patriarchal attitudes - that's pretty backwards, I think
<sparkletwist> that would create a strong social bias toward marriage
 <LightDragon> I think that most Gloria residents would have very few children-- but that depends on if the society encourages children to take care of hteir parents (like the Chinese
<sparkletwist> i'd also think that the society would tend to encourage the adult children to take care of the elderly parents, because a "social security" apparatus would be socialist :P
<LightDragon> if the children are expected to take care of parents in the old age, then the families might be large.
<LightDragon> But I don't see the kids necessarily being selfless enough to take care of hte parents in old age.
<LightDragon> I guess it depends on if the parents see themselves as an 'investment' of hte parents or not.
<Steerpike> wealthy individuals would always have care-givers, I'd imagine
<LightDragon> Steerpike- well maybe hte solution doesn't have to be a return to patriarchial attitudes... it could just be a rejection of marriage and a system where the kids are shared ?
<LightDragon> And the kids could be shared somehow between the partners- but that seems unnecessarily complicated.
<LightDragon> Maybe there's a system where each partner is required to pay a sort of alimony to suppor the children?
<LightDragon> I dunno... that seems to be getting too technical.

The End
<LightDragon> Any other questions, or are we going to wrap things up?
<LightDragon> ding?
<LightDragon> Nothing?
 <sparkletwist> i have no more questions
<Llum> I am good as well
<LightDragon> Okay. No worries. I've talked for about 2 hours on this.
 <Llum> thanks for doing the Q&A
<LightDragon> Thanks everyone for coming.
<LightDragon> I hope it was entertaining.
[<LordVreeg> thank;s for answering
 <LightDragon> No problem. I love talking.
<Llum> lol
<LordVreeg> welcome to the world of sales
<LightDragon> Then, that's all folks.

[ic=Director's Cut: After Hours on Tin and Gold]
<sparkletwist> bronze!
<sparkletwist> do you know what makes bronze possible?
<sparkletwist> tin!
<TheMeanestGuest> rivers.. drowning.. gluuugh
 <sparkletwist> awesome!
<Llum> and copper
<sparkletwist> yes.
<sparkletwist> it's mostly copper
<sparkletwist> so without the tin... it's just copper
<Llum> brass = copper and zinc
<Llum> copper is used quite a bit in alloys
<sparkletwist> i said bronze, not brass
<Llum> (I know, I said brass)
 <sparkletwist> and not bras either
 <sparkletwist> a copper and tin bra would be uncomfortable
<Llum> definetly not :p
 <TheMeanestGuest> there's no way that could be right.
 <sparkletwist> ok, i just read it
<TheMeanestGuest> I think the part I hate most about making maps is the drawing.
<sparkletwist> i like you put me on the spot like that :P
 * limetom  has joined #thecbg
<isomage> which breast gets copper and which tin?
 <TheMeanestGuest> if only I could just spontaneously generate them
 <isomage> mm. breast.
<isomage> I suddenly lapsed into my happy place there for a minute
<sparkletwist> i still don't, but it's like LD saying "tin is more valuable than gold" or steerpike saying "nobody really minds that everything is covered in pus and snot"
<sparkletwist> it's your setting
 <sparkletwist> don't let me get to you ;)
<sparkletwist> i actually did have something worthwhile to say about tin, though
<sparkletwist> my thoughts on tin coins and about a "store of value" are that any metal that is consumed in -large- quantities by industrial processes (i guess it's up to you whatever "large" is) would have a problem being used as coins because the supply and demand of it would require a lot to be used as a medium of exchange for anything else
<sparkletwist> that is, nobody's going to make tin cans if it costs $1000 equivalent to get the tin
<sparkletwist> i wonder if that really breaks down on any "practical" commodity and it's why we don't have oil-backed currency
<isomage> that was farking irritating about dragonlance.. steel was more valuable than gold, because they needed steel to make weapons and armor.  Yet....
<isomage> money was steel pieces
<sparkletwist> maybe the glorians will be practical enough that they recognize money is just a means of denoting value, and pure fiat money works as well as anything else, but that's awful socialist thinking, money is money just because the government says it is
<isomage> if you need it so bad for weapons, WHY ARE YOU MAKING COINS OUT OF IT
<Llum> iso
<Llum> money was steel because people could loot battlefields and mint coints from the fallen
 <Llum> or something like that iirc
<isomage> hm, then wouldn't that make it worthless?  Like, you don't use leaves for money
 <Llum> and you could smelt down the coints to make the actual weapon
 <limetom> Technically,
<sparkletwist> well, the other thing i wonder about in "traditional" D&D is like, why is every monster you're randomly fighting carrying around a bunch of gold :P
<limetom> You don't need a lot of tin for bronze.
<limetom> And if it's common enough,
<limetom> It wouldn't be too hard to use as a coin.
<Llum> I don't get your analogy iso
 <isomage> llum: 'cause it's just lying around
<limetom> Problem is it is so malleable, it would easily be destroyed, or counterfeited.
 <sparkletwist> yeah, it depends on how common the metal is and how much is actually consumed
<sparkletwist> this almost totally derailed into a "why is gold valuable?" discussion
<isomage> why is it valuable?
 <isomage> because people think it's pretty?
 <isomage> that's why diamonds are
 <limetom> :/
<isomage> there's no intrinsic worth, and in the case of diamonds there's no rarity (except for an artificial one)
<sparkletwist> diamonds are valuable because the debeers cartel strictly limits supply
<Llum> well its lying around for a reason, because the people who were wearing it got wtfpwnd
<Llum> also, diamonds are fairly rare
<limetom> Diamonds are valuable because there is a monopoly on their distribution.
 <Llum> or were
<Llum> sapphires and rubies (of quality) are rarer? then diamonds
<Llum> but they can be made fairly simply synthetically
 <isomage> and the worth is just that people like to wear them, right?
 <isomage> like, that's where the value comes from?
<isomage> oooh pretty
<isomage> gold and gems would only be worth anything to me because other people care enough about them that I could sell them for cash money
<isomage> man, nothing's really worth anything, is it?
<isomage> it's all a big stupid illusion
<Llum> its all in your mind
<isomage> SMASH
<isomage> let's go looting for TVs
<isomage> hm.  the net is the new electronic teat
<sparkletwist> oh no
 <sparkletwist> money backed by internets
<isomage> lol
<isomage> promissory note: the bearer is entitled to ten internets
* sparkletwist cashes in a 100 internets bill
 <sparkletwist> for some BLING
<isomage> lol
<isomage> hey, has anyone tried selling 2 girls 1 cup cups?
<limetom> Probably.
<isomage> hm, yeah, probably
 <sparkletwist> tried selling, perhaps
<sparkletwist> has anyone BOUGHT one
<sparkletwist> i highly doubt
 <isomage> hehe
<limetom> You underestimate (or perhaps overestimate) the people who use the interwebs.
 <isomage> I'm at work, so I'll save the search for later
<sparkletwist> misunderestimate
sparkletwist Quit (Quit: wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)

[/ic]

[LD]

Reserve 1

[LD]

...That took a while. Thanks again guys. You gave me a lot to think about.

I might be able to clean up the chat a little more, but it's basically broken out into the main topics right now- with some slighly amusing breaks split out in IC dialogue.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Looks like a great break-down, I hope we can count on others using this as a template in the future!  Sorry I was mostly AFK last night, the wife wanted to watch a movie and I thought I could do both at the same time, but she would have none of that, apparently...  Anyway, I made it through the economic and political portions of the conversation, which were very intriguing to me, before I had to step out.  Good job on all of it!

[Steerpike]

I really like how you broke this up - much easier to skim through and read.  Thanks for doing the Q&A.

EDIT: By the way, on the subject of Chesterton and my aesthetic (I noticed above I didn't respond to a statement of yours) - it is quite different than some of the stuff I tend towards (less gothic, no supernatural elements I've found so far) but the language is somewhat similar to that found in a lot of weird fiction - inclining towards the purple, with a lot of attention paid towards setting/atmosphere.  Feels just a little like Gormenghast, actually, a bit "mannerpunk."

[LD]

Thanks Ish, no worries.
-
Steerpike- Thanks for coming to participate.
I think you are right about Chesterton- his works are quite "fat"; after reading them, one tends to feel as though one has downed the literary equivalent of aged mead while consuming expensive imported bleu cheese.

I do not know what Chesterton would say if he was categorized as "mannerpunk" though. That being said, have you heard of the Zombie Jane Austen updated novel? (I forget if that was mentioned here before.)

I'd still like to see your take on Robinson Crusoe or Treasure Island though... maybe mixed with a little Moby Dick and some of Conrad (Heart of Darkness and some naval ones I believe) some Jack London, and "Red Badge of Courage"... all period works that you might enjoy- I think.

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=LD]Steerpike- Thanks for coming to participate.
I think you are right about Chesterton- his works are quite "fat"; after reading them, one tends to feel as though one has downed the literary equivalent of aged mead while consuming expensive imported bleu cheese. [/blockquote]
NICE description.  We are definaitely keeping you around.