Combining Hide and Move Silently

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Meeps>
I disagree that it makes it a superskill to combine the two into one.  They're definitely related, and it seems very unlikely (in fact, almost impossible) that in real life, one could do one without at least attempting to do the other.  In my opinion, there are may other skills that could already be called "superskills." When compared with "Escape Artist" as a skill, "Stealth" seems actually much less powerful, since escape artist lets you both escape physical bonds (manacles and/or ropes), as well as squeeze through small passages, which don't have anything to do with one another.

Mezerous>
I like your thoughts.  I think it would be a good idea, just to give players more diversity in other, non-combat related skills.  It's no secret that skill selection tends to favor combat, and if you don't have to spend so many separate points on similar skills, you could focus on things like craft, knowledge, ride, or other fun-but-relatively-less-used skills.

[Hibou]

Aye, I thought it might be a good idea. In most cases bonuses to Spot or Listen could still affect Perception (or Hide/Move Silently bonuses could affect Stealth), but only in those particular conditions. In the case of perception and a rarer blind or deaf creature/character, one could simply take an extreme penalty to the skill, bar that section of it off altogether, or explain why they can still use Perception for those effects.

I like how it might help unique skill choices. I've always been one to pick up points in Use Rope, Heal, Profession(Herbalism) or Craft(architecture) or the like for fun more than for what it qualifies me for, and maybe if I do this it'll aid in making more 'fun' characters in my campaigns.

[Epic Meepo]

Meeps>
I disagree that it makes it a superskill to combine the two into one.  They're definitely related, and it seems very unlikely (in fact, almost impossible) that in real life, one could do one without at least attempting to do the other.

It makes a superskill in the sense that it throws the skill point balance out of whack. Hide and Move Silently used to require one-fourth of a rogue's base skill points, but Stealth only requires one-eighth of a rogue's base skill points. Same for Listen and Spot as compred to Perception.

So consider a rogue with both Perception and Stealth. Something that used to expend one-half of that rogue's base skill points now only expends one-fourth of his base skill points. You can either call that "superskills" or you can call it 2 extra skill points per level for sneaky, observant rogues. Either way, most non-rogues just got hosed unless some non-rogue class skills were also combined to effectively increase those classes' skill points per level.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

That is a point I hadn't thought of... I'll try to come up with a rebuttal ;)

Well, I guess one thing you could do, for that very specific situation, if you're going to make those changes (Perception and Stealth), then you could lower the rogue's skill point gain per level by 1/4.

[Poseptune]

You would have to do the same with the bard and ranger if you are going to take away the rogue's skill points.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

The truth is there are number of under-powered skills that could very easily be combined, and are in many games.

One example, Knowledge (local) and Gather Information have very similar in game functions.  You do different things with them, but there's no real reason you couldn't have a single Streetwise skill.

Other game systems combine Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble (and sometimes Swim) into a single Athletics skill.  I don't really recommend that here because that really would be a superskill.

One could argue that Knowledge (nature) and Survival belong together.

Search might go in Perception.  Even Sense Motive might fit.