Endless Horizons - Elementalism (Need opinions)

[Xeviat]

I have done posts like these before, but I feel enough has changed that I want to reopen discussion anew rather than reviving an old thread. One of the guiding design goals of my setting has been an adherence to an elemental magic system. I know they have been done before, but my setting has never tried to be "new", only to do classic things in new ways. I also am anal retentive enough to adore rigid structures, and such a system lends itself to that.

Recently, I read the "Codex Alera" series, which featured prominently a very detailed elemental magic system. It was an interesting world, marrying the elemental magic and a Romanesque culture (the humans there actually found their way there from Rome ...). One of the great strengths of the setting was that the magic seemed very much a part of it. Every human could command some measure of the magic, though others were better than most. Also, something I didn't appreciate until I started running a game again, the setting had built in counters to the magic that made the world both cohesive and manageable.

Now, I'm trying to not copy that series too much, but here's a quick overview. They use a six element system: Air, Earth, Fire, Metal, Water, Wood. Air counters Earth, Fire counters Water, and Metal counters Wood, and vice versa. Like in my setting, each element is not only elemental but it also represents an aspect of the body: roughly speaking, Air is speed, Earth is strength, Fire is presence, Metal is endurance, Water is empathy, and Wood is coordination.

I am looking to use a more traditional five element system: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, and Æther (using Æther rather than Void because I'm sticking with Western motif words). But, for a long time, I have been considering the existence and nature of "para-elements", or mixed elements. One advantage of such would be to grant alternative benefits to characters who focus on multiple elements rather than one: perhaps para-elemental effects could be stronger (equivalent in strength to what a single element specialist would have at a given skill level): this operates under a skill system type assumption. Alternately, the types of elements I have been considering for para-elements could just be "pure" or "alternative" uses of the core elements.

At the moment, here are what I am considering for para-elements:

Cold	Air	Lightning
Water	Æther	Fire
Wood	Earth	Metal

It creates an interesting spread along the "sides" (I envision it as a circle, but square grids are nice too): The top is "weather", while the bottom is "structure", representing a difference between the wilds and civilization. The right is "industry" or "technology", while the left is ... nature? It kind of falls apart there. I'm still not 100% satisfied with the "cold" para-element, but I don't want to do something like "cloud" because that's just water suspended in air; each of the others are definitely a different kind of something. I am entirely open to having Air/Water be something other than cold, as "cold" could really just be a manipulation of fire (moving heat away from something), but maybe that's a bit too sciencey.

Now, here's my big question for the moment: How should I handle the para-elements. I see 3 ways of doing it:

• Put each para-element fully into one element or another (lightning goes to fire, metal goes to earth, plants go to water, or the other direction).
• Require knowledge of both elements to gain access to a para-element.
• Allow use of each para-element associated with each pure element (so an air mage could use cold and lightning, a water mage could use cold and plants ...)

Another aspect of the elements are how they reflect themselves upon people. Every person, and most living things, have five energy centers within them where elemental energy is created. Each element commands a physical and a mental aspect of the person, except for Æther; Æther is a binding unity. Air reflects Speed and Perception, Earth reflects Strength and Instinct, Fire reflects Vitality and Presence, and Water reflects Coordination and Empathy. These reflect themselves well with ability scores, and more and more my system seems suited to a L5R rewrite (though I do loves me my d20). Interestingly, for those familiar with my earlier posts, I have effectively swapped Earth and Fire's physicals: the more I sat with it and also looked at other systems/stories, the more Strength seemed to be an Earthy thing. Earth is solid, and I can imagine a big muscled guy being earthy. Fire is about passion and aggression. Physically, fire is an energy, so it should be one's vitality. The ability to run long distances, to march through the desert or the tundra, to fight off disease. The only part of Constitution that doesn't sit well with Fire, that fits Earth more, is Toughness, but the more I thought about it, the more Toughness seemed related to Strength rather than Endurance: strong people have more muscle, and thus more meat to absorb blows. Fire would fit HP if it represented Endurance, so I am now leaning back towards a WP/VP type system if I go with d20. Also, interestingly, I don't seem to have an "Intelligence" stat, but this is because I believe it will be split between "Perception" and "Instinct", sort of the difference between "book smarts" and "street smarts". Air is a quick wit and quick reaction, where as Earth is about reason and deep understanding.

Before I start rambling, I'll leave this here for a bit. I'm gearing up for "D&D Next", but for now I'm running a game with Mutants and Masterminds while also still dreaming up my own system. But since this is both a mechanical issue and a story issue, it needs to be resolved and set in stone soon so I can keep working. Thanks all!

[Ghostman]

Now, here's my big question for the moment: How should I handle the para-elements. I see 3 ways of doing it:

• Put each para-element fully into one element or another (lightning goes to fire, metal goes to earth, plants go to water, or the other direction).
• Require knowledge of both elements to gain access to a para-element.
• Allow use of each para-element associated with each pure element (so an air mage could use cold and lightning, a water mage could use cold and plants ...)

I'd suggest a combination of the latter two: let each mage have one element as their focus, with two elements on the side, and one element in opposition to their focus. Thus a water-mage has water as his focused element, with earth and air as sidelined elements, and fire as his opposed element. The water mage is strong when it comes to handling water (obviously), weak for handling earth or air, able to make use of both of the water-related para-elements, but unable to use fire or the fire-related para-elements. Aether could be universal to all mages, but no one could choose it as their focus.

Another aspect of the elements are how they reflect themselves upon people. Every person, and most living things, have five energy centers within them where elemental energy is created. Each element commands a physical and a mental aspect of the person, except for Æther; Æther is a binding unity. Air reflects Speed and Perception, Earth reflects Strength and Instinct, Fire reflects Vitality and Presence, and Water reflects Coordination and Empathy. These reflect themselves well with ability scores, and more and more my system seems suited to a L5R rewrite (though I do loves me my d20).

Consider borrowing the idea of elemental attribute balance, from Qin: The Warring States RPG. In Qin, the closer a character's aspects (elemental attributes) are to each other, the more balanced the character is. A character whose aspects are all equally strong is perfectly balanced, while one who has very high-scored and very low-scored aspects is severely off balance. Well-balanced characters get more chi, which they can channel to make use of martial arts and magic. Thus there is an incentive to avoid blatant min-maxing, as having "dump stats" would lower one's chi.

[Xeviat]

That suggestion would work really well if I use d20, Ghostman, and I think it allows for a nice variety of effects. Pure specialists would be a "prestige class", rather than a starting point, except for very early levels: in 3E terms, perhaps a caster casts their element at the proper level, but is at -1 spell level for their off elements, meaning an Air specialist at 1st and 2nd level would only have 1st level air spells, and at 3rd level they could cast water and fire 1st level spells as 2nd level spells.

It's a simple solution, and I like it; it also keeps things from being too similar to Avatar and such, where most casters only use a single element. It could also be the difference between a true caster and a dabbler; a dabbler (someone who picks up some spells with feats, or something) only typically knows one element, where casters know 3.

I sort of like that idea about attribute balance. One of my early ideas, before I actually started playing D&D, was a system where as you level you gain chakra points. As your chakras rise, you gain a bonus to the associated attribute but a penalty to the opposite attribute; the bonus out-weighed the penalty. Someone who was balanced would have everything grow nicely, where as someone who favored one would get a few stats to grow very high, but at the expense of other stats. This was where I started having the original ideas of para elements, as another way of rewarding generalists over specialists. But don't get me wrong, I want there to be specialists as well; I want to support all archetypes.