Sci-Fi Book Recommendations?

[LD]

Hello!

Any advice on the following is appreciated:

Do you know of good books in the sub-genre of "future bureaucracy", and if so, could you please recommend? I like the sub-genre because authors who delve into this minutiae are hard to find (most sci-fi authors are military sci fi or hard sci fi focusing on the "science" technology rather than the bureaucracy of "systems" or focusing on biological issues or psychological issues/concepts.

I am looking for books that follow (and delve deep into details) of sci-fi accountants, engineers, lawyers, merchants, (and to a lesser degree politicians). I prefer "good reads" rather than depressing reads.

I would like to find more books like the below:
Jennifer Government by Max Berry   (excellent) (corporate controlled future dystopia told in a hilariously coy fashion following the lives of a government agent, middle management marketers, the NRA, and a hacker)
The Space Merchants by CM Kornbluth (okay) (old sci fi tale of a corporate controlled future)
Vatta's War by Elizabeth Moon (excellent) (merchant dealing with bureaucratic rules and regulations)

On my list to examine are:
The Paul Sinclair Novels by John G. Hemry (JAG in Space) (attorneys)

[O Senhor Leetz]

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman

[Rhamnousia]

The Culture series touches a lot on the bureaucratic, political, and social workings of what is essentially a near-omnipotent civilization of liberal hedonists run by omniscient hypercomputers. Some of the books are high sci-fi, but one of the early books focused entirely on regime change by means of an unimaginably-elaborate tabletop game.

The Merchant Princes isn't futuristic, but it is a great economic-political series. Really, anything from Charles Stross is likely to be very heavy on bureaucracy.

[Steerpike]

I would second both of Rhamnousia's recommendations and also add China  Miéville's The City & The City (surrealist rather than SF, but a great mystery, with interesting legal/social/bureaucratic elements) and Embassytown, which is definitely SF and has a wonderfully strange system of diplomacy and communication between humans and another, very odd species; the focus is on these diplomats and also certain people who become incarnate words or figurative devices in the alien language (it's complicated).

I also highly recommend Jeff Vandermeer's Southern Reach trilogy. While the first book mostly isn't bureaucratic - more of a weird SF psychological thriller - the second book is set entirely inside a bizarre, decaying government agency, full of office politics that threaten to unspool into cosmic horror. I'm in the midst of the third, which seems a mix of both.

[LD]

Thank you for the recommendations.

If there is a chance to focus further in response to the suggestions--

------ I read a summary writeup of Forever War and I am unsure how it fulfills the criteria?
------ I did like some of the detective interaction with bureaucracy in The City and the City, although on the whole it was a weird-detective novel moreso than what I am looking for; Embassytown was really focused on language and the alien-culture phenomena, but the diplomatic parts interested me.
------ I will make a note to check out Mr. Steampunk Vandermeer's newest series!
------ Banks has been on my general to-read list for a while- I did not realize he fit the bureaucratic requirements I was seeking; so he will now move up in priority--thank you!

[O Senhor Leetz]

Forever War does focus on the war itself, but quite a bit of the book deals with the changes in human society, culture, and technology every time the protagonist returns from his centuries-long tours of duty. The entirety of the book is admittedly not a "good read science fiction about beauracracy" (I think you're going to be pressed to find more than a handful of good ones, that's quite the order) but the book isn't terribly long and I think there is more than enough of what you're looking for (some of it is pretty bizarre but interesting).

The Foundation series is another series you may want to check out - human change over a long period of time.

[Steerpike]

Banks has been on my general to-read list for a while- I did not realize he fit the bureaucratic requirements I was seeking; so he will now move up in priority--thank you!

I'd be very curious as to what you make of the politics in the Culture novels, knowing a little bit about your own. Banks' main civilization is a sort of technologically-enabled anarchist society without any formal government, laws, or private property. Automation and sustainable energy has made virtually all forms of human(oid) labour unnecessary. People still do things, of course, on a basically volunteer basis. As they say in the Culture, "money is a sign of poverty." When big decisions have to be made they generally employ direct democracy or various forms of adhocracy.

A lot of the conflicts arise when the Culture rubs up against one of the many civilizations that don't share their values and/or technology.

[Llum]

Market Forces by Richard Morgan is about Lawyers who Death Race to win cases. If you can read his writing its pretty cool.

[LD]

(I think you're going to be pressed to find more than a handful of good ones, that's quite the order)

I feared that may be the case :)

Thank you for the elaboration on the Forever War--I will make a note to check it out, though it is not really what I am looking for. I am looking less for change over time rather than nuances of bureaucracy across a society at a point in time--e.g. just like many sci-fi novels already address scientific/military change- I would like to see more written on bureaucratic change--not just the broad-painted background swathes of "we're now a socialist utopia", or "we're now a dictatorship", or "we now have a god-emperor", rather--as a background, demonstrate why the society is designed like X, then focus the ACTUAL story on semi-everyday-life living among the specific effects (e.g. focus on a merchant, rather than a soldier--Many novels involve soldiers blowing up merchant shipping--few deal with merchant shipping wheeling and dealing, fleeing from naval battles and trying to operate smuggling operations during wars, etc.) [Robert Asprin's Phule's Company series sort of touches on this... and his humorous fantasy MYTH INC. series does a good job of business in a fantasy world). Then, focus the actual novel on people having realistic interactions with these superstructures... and have the audience laugh at the bizarre bureaucratic concoctions like how my Gloria setting handles how people interact with "weird" big ideas.

Re: the Foundation series- thank you. I have already read it. It is not exactly what I am looking for. The focus on psychohistory and science was far more pronounced than that on politics/bureaucracy/everyday life. Asimov did certainly go in-depth, and it was an interesting book--I doubt that series could have been published today.

Banks' main civilization is a sort of technologically-enabled anarchist society without any formal government, laws, or private property. Automation and sustainable energy has made virtually all forms of human(oid) labour unnecessary. People still do things, of course, on a basically volunteer basis. As they say in the Culture, "money is a sign of poverty." When big decisions have to be made they generally employ direct democracy or various forms of adhocracy.

A lot of the conflicts arise when the Culture rubs up against one of the many civilizations that don't share their values and/or technology.

That sounds like the Singularity taken to an extremely optimistic conclusion, much like what happened in Brave New World.

I would be very interested to discovery where the society gets its resources. Even if it has unlimited energy, it still needs certain rare earth materials and other types of materials to "make" things...if there are increasing numbers of citizens, then they will need "more" resources; similarly if things break, they'll need to re-forge or re-place. Inputs are, by their nature, limited (if they are not, then I am interested to see if Banks handwaves it, or if he goes into depth why there is no great loss of usable material or quality when re-processing one material into another--I am going to assume he says with the unlimited energy, we can re-forge anything, so replacement is not a problem-but that still leaves the issue of what about when "more" is needed- e.g. during a war, or a population boom). Also, what happens when there are 'dirty' jobs that people don't want to do and that must be done and there are no volunteers?

Do the books go into depth what happens when people violate the commons. E.g. regarding the lack of private property/laws... does he discuss how disputes are settled.
What do people spend their time doing? Are they all drugged out like in Brave New World?

If he handles the above questions in a thoughtful manner, I am interested to see how his books go! If he handwaves the above, it still might be a good read, but more likely it will be annoying. I guess I will just have to see/read.

[Steerpike]

That sounds like the Singularity taken to an extremely optimistic conclusion, much like what happened in Brave New World.

It's kinda like Brave New World, but without the conformity or rigid social structures or anti-individualism.

I would be very interested to discovery where the society gets its resources. Even if it has unlimited energy, it still needs certain rare earth materials and other types of materials to "make" things...if there are increasing numbers of citizens, then they will need "more" resources; similarly if things break, they'll need to re-forge or re-place. Inputs are, by their nature, limited (if they are not, then I am interested to see if Banks handwaves it, or if he goes into depth why there is no great loss of usable material or quality when re-processing one material into another--I am going to assume he says with the unlimited energy, we can re-forge anything, so replacement is not a problem-but that still leaves the issue of what about when "more" is needed- e.g. during a war, or a population boom).

It's a huge galaxy, so there's a ton of resources out there for the taking. Mostly, though, the Culture can manipulate and store vast amounts of energy and seem to have mastered matter/energy conversion a la Star Trek. The details of this aren't fully explained, of course. They also have things like hyper-sophisticated nanotechnology, wormholes for matter displacement, and faster than light travel. In general I'd rank the Culture novels on the hard SF end of space opera (compared to, say, Star Wars), but there's definitely big patches of handwavium.

Also, what happens when there are 'dirty' jobs that people don't want to do and that must be done and there are no volunteers?

Virtually all difficult/dirty/dangerous labour is either done by volunteers or, far more commonly, by drones expressly created for this purpose. Some of these are sentient, but aren't slaves - they could conceivably choose to "quit" if they wanted - but they wouldn't perceive the jobs they're doing as dirty or difficult the way humans would. Most, though, are sub-sentient but fantastically sophisticated nonetheless. Personality backups and the like also help to take the sting out of dangerous jobs. As Banks puts it in the essay linked below: "No machine is exploited, either; the idea here being that any job can be automated in such a way as to ensure that it can be done by a machine well below the level of potential consciousness; what to us would be a stunningly sophisticated computer running a factory (for example) would be looked on by the Culture's AIs as a glorified calculator, and no more exploited than an insect is exploited when it pollinates a fruit tree a human later eats a fruit from. "

For more details you can check out Banks' Notes on the Culture.

What's fascinating about it is that despite being such an optimistic, utopian society, the books are not idealistic in the typical sense: they're often very dark and surprisingly cyncial, and the gaps and difficulties of the Culture are often on full display. The books explore a lot of ethical dillemas unflinchingly.

[LD]

Thank you!

It seems the books are worth a read; I will certainly move Banks up on my list and give it a try!