My Homebrew System

[Ivar]

I'm trying to design a campaign setting and system that is more realistic than fantasy, but still have plenty of plots, quests, twists, etc. I'll be leaning heavily on the Unearthed Arcana system, and a variety of other features.  This is all very much a work in progress.

Changes to DnD 3.5 rules:

[spoiler=Character Basics]
A detailed character background is essential.  

Adjusted Contacts, Traits,  
and Flaws will be used as in Unearthed Arcana.

[spoiler=Hit Points]
In this system, hit points are very low compared to standard DnD.  Rather than relying on a abstraction to represent luck, toughness, prowess AND Health, this system attempts to represent only Health with hit points.  The following rules apply:

At first level, all characters get their Hit die normally per class.  At each 3rd level, characters gain their Constitution bonus to HP.

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Races]
All non-human races are not allowed.  Monsters may exist in the world, but most chalk it up to legend and myth.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Character Classes]

[spoiler=Expert]

The Expert class may be added as an option.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, Bard]

The Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, and possibly the Druid and Bard may be replaced with something similar to the Mystic.  With permission of course.  Something similar to this.

Another alternative is to make all casters spontaneous divine casters and selectively compose a spell list from all current spell lists.

Also going to look at D20 Call of Cthulhu for Arcance Magics or Grim Tales possibly.

Any spells that do damage need to be reviewed for appropriateness in relation to the new Hit Point system.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Rogue]

The Rogue ability "sneak attack" needs to be revised to reflect the change in the Hit Point system.  Rogues can now only use Sneak Attack when the target is unaware of the Rogue.  Flanking or being denied the Dex bonus no longer qualifies a target for a sneak attack.
[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Feats]
Any feats that involve increased damage will need to be revised to coincide with the new hit points system.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Magic and Equipment]
In this system it is very important that Magic be a rarity and something that is feared, and especially magical items.  Equipment in general will be "low tech" and likely poor quality.  Smaller weapons are emphasized (daggers, short swords, clubs being more prolific than polearms, two handed weapons, etc.).

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Combat]
Combat in this system is supposed to be deadly and intense.  This system strives to make characters think before they enter combat.  This system uses both the

Defense Bonus and
Armor as Damage Reduction
 systems.

Natural 20's (and 1's) are not autohits or automisses.  Instead they give +10(and -10 respectively) to-hit on that single roll only.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Healing]

The lack of magical healing coupled with revised hit points system means that natural healing takes on a very important role.  New natural healing rules need to be implemented.

[/spoiler]

Background:

This system is obviously designed for a low-magic, low-hit point setting.  The setting I'd like to use it in would be similar to a historical setting with some fantasy elements.  For example, using Rome as a template with the myths, legends, etc. as the fantasy elements.  The gods would be much more active and politics, allies, etc. would play a much more meaningful role.

[Ra-Tiel]

Just some comments. ;)

If you want a more "deadly" combat system, I would advise looking into Vitality and Wound points instead of cutting short character hit points. If you just reduce the amount of HP a character has, you're giving spellcasters and monsters a serious boost. Being able to inflict like 20d6 points of damage to a 40ft radius is pretty impressive, especially when those in the blast only have like 60 hit points or something. Also, could you please elaborate a bit more what you mean with "At each 3rd level, characters gain their Constitution bonus to HP."?

Also, as for alternative classes, you could make the following "replacements":
#1: Cleric -> Favored soul.
The favored soul is in many regards considered weaker than the cleric. For one, she cannot access any spell under the sun printed in any splatbook. Then, she cannot employ turn undead to amp up her spellcasting (divine metamagic feat). And finally, while on paper her class abilities look powerful, they come too late to be really gamebreaking and just represent what any character would be having by magic items at that time anyways (mostly related to fly and energy resistance).

#2: Sorcerer -> Warlock/Dragonfire adapt.
To be honest, while I really find the sorcerer's way of casting more appealing than the wizard's, he really lacks in the flavor department. I just find that shoehorned "dragon descendent" thing a bit hard to swallow. Therefore, I'd remove the "evill outsider ancestry" from the warlock and throw the sorcerer out. The warlock (or dragonfire adapt, if you insist on keeping some draconic flavor) has a unique mechanic (eldritch blast and invocations) and fits the supposed role of someone with "inborn magical talent" much better than a spontaneously casting wizard clone.

#3: Bard -> Minstrel.
The minstrel is a class created by Soupnazi in this thread. Its mechanics are similar to those of the warlock, and it looks like a very nicely designed and interesting class to play.

Also, be careful with Defense Bonus in combination with Armor as DR. The defense bonus does explicitly not stack with any armor bonuses, so half of the protection offered by worn armor is lost. A fullplate with the Armor as DR variant provides only a +4 bonus to AC and DR 4/-. However, this DR is far to little to compensate for the lost AC. Monsters at higher levels just deal too much damage, and it is always more preferable to not be hit at all than to be hit for X-4 points of damage. However, if you doubled or even tripled the granted DR it could be worthwhile.

[Ivar]

Thanks for the comments Ra-Tiel.  I hadn't completely fleshed it out yet as much as I wanted, so hopefully I can clarify some things.  But I really appreciate any insights and feedback.

If you want a more "deadly" combat system, I would advise looking into Vitality and Wound points instead of cutting short character hit points. If you just reduce the amount of HP a character has, you're giving spellcasters and monsters a serious boost. Being able to inflict like 20d6 points of damage to a 40ft radius is pretty impressive, especially when those in the blast only have like 60 hit points or something. Also, could you please elaborate a bit more what you mean with "At each 3rd level, characters gain their Constitution bonus to HP."?

how much true physical damage a character can withstand[/quote]Also, be careful with Defense Bonus in combination with Armor as DR. The defense bonus does explicitly not stack with any armor bonuses, so half of the protection offered by worn armor is lost.[/quote]

I think if you combine the Defense Bonus and the Armor as DR, despite what UA rules say, you can get a pretty nice defensive system that seems realistic and gives characters a better shot at living.  I'm stil working on balancing those two together and thinking of implementing a "max defense bonus" stat on each of the armor types, but I'm not sure it's needed yet.

[Ra-Tiel]

Thanks for the comments Ra-Tiel.  I hadn't completely fleshed it out yet as much as I wanted, so hopefully I can clarify some things.  But I really appreciate any insights and feedback.

No problem. :D

I've looked at and considered the VP/WP system, and what I'm really trying to do is simplify HP and make it more realistic at the same time.  I really like the idea that HP translates directly to how much true physical damage a character can withstand (Same as wound points).  Basically, I'm replacing Vitality points with an increased AC and DR on Armor.  It's more deadly, but no more "I use 10 Vitality Points (or Hit Points) to turn your deadly axe blow into nothingness."

Not into "nothingness", but merely into a glancing blow that will leave a scratch at best instead of cutting of my arm. ;) Anyways, if you really intend to cut away all slack from the characters be prepared for quite some deadly campaigns. At best, make each player have 2 or 3 replacement characters ready.

Also, there are no real monsters in the game (in the known sense), so low HP shouldn't be affected there.  Or if there are dragons, etc., they should be appropriately (i.e. realistically) deadly for PCs and non-PCs alike.  Spells, especially direct damage spells are carefully edited or weeded out.  For example, under the Mystic class linked above, the spell list has been revised to exclude spells that unbalance a system like this.

You also have to seriously watch what feats you allow. Basically anybody with Power Attack has a 1 in 20 chance to automatically kill any other character despite his armor, even more with the follow up feats to Power Attack (Leap Attack, Combat Brute, etc).

As for gaining HP.  At first level, characters gain HP as normal.  At each additional level, they gain no HP (like you would in normal DnD).  At each 3rd level (I'm debating moving it to 4th), you gain your CON bonus in HP.  That's all the HP you get.

So at 1st level, a standard fighter might have 12 HP.  At 4th, 15.  At 8th, 17.  At 12th, 19. Etc.

That is too low. Much too low. Reason: Level 1 half-orc barbarian. Base strength 16, 18 after racial adjustments, 22 in rage. Greatsword, damage 2d6+9. If he hits it's an autokill against anything with d6 or lower, and if he rolls average damage (16) it's an autokill against probably any other character of level 1 to 4. To add insult to injury give him Power Attack and make him charge. His attack roll is likely high enough to hit anyways (BAB 1 + 6 Str - 1 PA + 2 charge = 8 total), but that ups the average damage to 18.

With that few HP you have to tweak any spell that deals damage. For example, the "Secrets" motif grants explosive runes as a 3rd level spell. Anybody reading the runes takes 6d6 points of force damage without save, those up to 10ft away get a Ref save for half. While trapping a book or a chest with this spell is a nasty surprise in normal DnD, it's almost guaranteeing a TPK in this system.

Also, as you consider HP now to be exclusively related to how much physical punishment the character can take, you would have to immensly increase the time required for natural healing. Healing a broken leg takes weeks at best and months or years at worst.

Those are good replacements for the core classes, but I don't think they fit in this system.  Save perhaps the Minstrel, those aren't any more "realistic" than the core classes really.  Or not enough of a change.

Well, if you replace the wizard with the mystic and take druid and cleric "as is", I don't see any reason to play anything else. Those two classes have enough HP to "survive" at low levels (better than wizards/sorcerers and rogues/bards anyways), get better/more options in combat, have an impressive spell list (covering anything from healing to buffing to blasting to battlefield control), and have powerful class features (wild shape, respectively turn undead that can be employed to power some divine feats).

I think if you combine the Defense Bonus and the Armor as DR, despite what UA rules say, you can get a pretty nice defensive system that seems realistic and gives characters a better shot at living.  I'm stil working on balancing those two together and thinking of implementing a "max defense bonus" stat on each of the armor types, but I'm not sure it's needed yet.

Still, a natural 20 is an auto hit regardless of AC, and you can up the damage so much that those measily 4 points DR from fullplate won't matter anyways. Also, how about magic weapons? What happens with those elemental enhancements? If you let them as they are, everybody will be running around with a +1 flaming frost shock acidid screaming shortsword, dishing out like 6d6 damage with each strike, 5d6 of which bypass any DR because it's elemental damage.

How would you handle critical hits? Two word: scimitar, scyth. While the threat range of the scimitar (or rapier) is nice in normal DnD even when amped up with Keen or Improved Critical, in this system it becomes a true nightmare, as double damage seriously ruins every one's day. And the scyth, while being nasty in normal DnD becomes the ultimate destroyer here. Not even a highlevel character could hope to survive an average critical hit from a magical scyth. Also, what about sneak attack? Or the psionic weapon/shot feats? Weapon Specialization?

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=Ra-Tiel]Not into "nothingness", but merely into a glancing blow that will leave a scratch at best instead of cutting of my arm.  Anyways, if you really intend to cut away all slack from the characters be prepared for quite some deadly campaigns. At best, make each player have 2 or 3 replacement characters ready.[/blockquote]
I don't know.  I've run a low HP setting for 25 years, and had some character's last the whole time, and active ones for 13 years at a time.  The highest current HP is 34 right now for a PC.  Starting characters have 5-14 on the average.
And it comes from the direction Ivar is going, actually.
DR (Protection in my setting) is a variable as well.
So while I find the Ra-Tiel words always valuable and full of wisdom, I need to tell Ivar that I went the way he is looking a long time ago, and it keeps my very exacting, mature gamers quite happy with the versimalitude.  You're even more right than you know, as my weapon damages are actually higher than normal, so someone who ends up getting hit by weapons or spells without armor usually suffers greatly or dies.  Larger than average creatures that hit a low armored creature normally kill unarmored creatures.
Though there are more rolls per combat in my systems, so it is not always good unless you are prepared for that.  The one thing that I cannot and would not disagree with Ra-Tiel about in any shape or form is that if you decide to change one major dynamic, most of the other ones need to be tweaked heavily as well. It may have worked for me, but that's also because my whole ruleset is different.  
You'll need to do a whole lot of crunch, in terms of damage, protection, avoidance, speed factors, criticals, healing magic, weapon magic, and more, if you go with the low HP rules.  

[Ra-Tiel]

@LordVreeg: I don't know if you happen to know the d20 B5 roleplaying game. In that system, characters also have VERY few HP (like around 5-8 at first level), weapons deal impressive damage (the standard military pulse pistol deals 2d8 damage) and AC is replayed with a "Defense" score which is equal to the total Ref save bonus. I've DMed some adventures in that system, and in the first session alone I had to fudge the dice 4 times to prevent a character from getting killed.

Simply reducing HP and not providing any other mechanics to compensate for (like vastly improved defense or something) simply cut the fun out of the game. Basically the system was like real life: the moment somebody pulled the trigger someone would usually die. However, being realistic any everything, it was little fun. Also, space combats were impossible, as the situation was only aggravated by the ships' HP and weapon damage ratio. It was neither dramatic nor heroic. It was blant and boring, and while fitting the basic theme of the tv show quite well, it just didn't mesh with all the crazy crap some of the show's iconic characters were pulling off all the time (remember the Icaran warrior or the "false" Kosh?).

If you cut down HP, you just NEED to rework the whole system. I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point. DnD is just not built in its standard form to handle characters with like 12 HP at level 7.

[Ivar]

To further clarify, this system is designed to play very differently than standard D&D.  Politics, roleplaying, etc. are more prevalent than combat.  Monsters and Magic are rare if they exist.  Higher level characters aren't inherently that much better than lower level characters.  Your Level 10 Fighter isn't guarenteed to crush that Level 3 fighter, and he certainly couldn't kill a dragon if they existed.  So many of the legitimate concerns brought up so far are mitigated by these core changes to the system.

With that few HP you have to tweak any spell that deals damage.

Also, as you consider HP now to be exclusively related to how much physical punishment the character can take, you would have to immensly increase the time required for natural healing. Healing a broken leg takes weeks at best and months or years at worst.[/quote]Well, if you replace the wizard with the mystic and take druid and cleric "as is", I don't see any reason to play anything else. Those two classes have enough HP to "survive" at low levels (better than wizards/sorcerers and rogues/bards anyways), get better/more options in combat, have an impressive spell list (covering anything from healing to buffing to blasting to battlefield control), and have powerful class features (wild shape, respectively turn undead that can be employed to power some divine feats).[/quote]Still, a natural 20 is an auto hit regardless of AC, and you can up the damage so much that those measily 4 points DR from fullplate won't matter anyways. Also, how about magic weapons? What happens with those elemental enhancements? If you let them as they are, everybody will be running around with a +1 flaming frost shock acidid screaming shortsword, dishing out like 6d6 damage with each strike, 5d6 of which bypass any DR because it's elemental damage.
[/quote]
How would you handle critical hits? Two word: scimitar, scyth. While the threat range of the scimitar (or rapier) is nice in normal DnD even when amped up with Keen or Improved Critical, in this system it becomes a true nightmare, as double damage seriously ruins every one's day. And the scyth, while being nasty in normal DnD becomes the ultimate destroyer here. Not even a highlevel character could hope to survive an average critical hit from a magical scyth. Also, what about sneak attack? Or the psionic weapon/shot feats? Weapon Specialization?[/quote]too[/i] deadly.
Damage dealing spells - All damage dealing spells need a pass over to ensure they are balanced before being allowed.

----------

Again, thanks a lot for reviewing the system.  You raise great points and help me refine what needs to be worked on.  I think the biggest problem is that this system would play so differently from standard D&D, which is intentional.  Once you get past that, I hope that people might consider it as an exciting and realistic alternative.

[Queenfange]

I like your choice to use contacts, flaws, and traits from "Unearthed Arcana." The latter two are particularly interesting and would fit well with a setting primarily for roleplaying (like yours sees to be). I also applaud requiring characters to have detailed backgrounds; that is vital for games of intrigue. One thought: You might consider allowing the expert as a PC class. They aren't very strong, but their access to skills would make them formidable in a game that does not place its emphasis on fighting.

[Ra-Tiel]

[... more explaining ...]

Now, that certainly clears many things up. Thanks for posting. :) I hope I didn't come over as condescending, or aggravating or something. It's really not my intend to do so, and if I did I appologize.

Ok, now that you mentioned some more of your modifications it definitively looks more workable. That you used a variant "natural 20" rule, that you'd cut most of the magic items/weapons, and would modifiy certain feats make things a lot clearer to me.

Regarding HP and healing (again ;) ): I see the problem less with the low number of HP, but rather with what they represent. "Normal" HP also stand for luck, combat fatigue, glancing blows, and so on. Therefore it's easily justifiable to heal back from death's door to full in like 5 days. However, if HP only stand for the amount of physical damage a character can take, it imho really breaks suspension of disbelieve if a character heals back from -9 to full in 4 days, considering how long it takes in real life to heal even minor scratches and bruises.

How about a non-linear healing mechanic then? Perhaps something like this, just as a quick idea:
[table=Idea]
[tr][th]HP lost[/th][th]Healing time[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]1st[/td][td]1 hour[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2nd[/td][td]2 hours[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3rd[/td][td]4 hours[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4th[/td][td]8 hours[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5th[/td][td]1 day[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6th[/td][td]2 days[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7th[/td][td]4 days[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8th[/td][td]8 days[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9th[/td][td]1 week[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10th[/td][td]2 weeks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11th[/td][td]4 weeks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]12th[/td][td]8 weeks[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13th and subsequent[/td][td]1 month each[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Also, I wouldn't place too much importance on in combat healing - the only spells that do that really goo are heal and mass heal. Anything else is most likely a waste of the cleric's action, as a typical combat lasts only 5 rounds in DnD on average.

Something that just occured to me: you'd also have a very close eye on so called "utility" spells. Considering how much damage falling deals, throwing people into the air or stuff on people with telekinesis suddenly becomes really tempting. Also, alchemical items also experience a severe boost. Now that 1d6 acid damage from an acid flask actually does really hurt. ;)

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=Ivar]Again, thanks a lot for reviewing the system. You raise great points and help me refine what needs to be worked on. I think the biggest problem is that this system would play so differently from standard D&D, which is intentional. Once you get past that, I hope that people might consider it as an exciting and realistic alternative.[/blockquote]
I think there will be some takers.  I think the realism vs. playablity thing is one of the balances that sometimes skews based on the kind of campaign and setting a GM wants to create.  if the setting is worth the changes, players will stay.

What kind of DR (protection) and weapon damages are you planning on using?  Since I have faced some of the same issues. I'm curious.  How mach damage will Ra-Tiel's oil flask do?  Will armor get any DR against it?  

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Ivar, I'm curious about some fluffier aspects.  Do you have any ideas on an actual campaign setting or adventure series yet?

[Ivar]

Ok, updated the original post to reflect the feedback so far.

Now, that certainly clears many things up. Thanks for posting. :) I hope I didn't come over as condescending, or aggravating or something. It's really not my intend to do so, and if I did I appologize.

Absolutely not.  As long as criticism is constructive(and so far it all has been), you're doing me a huge favor.  Thanks.  ;-)

How about a non-linear healing mechanic then? Perhaps something like this, just as a quick idea:

Something similar to what you posted might be what I need.  Natural healing definitely is the major sticky point still.

What kind of DR (protection) and weapon damages are you planning on using?  Since I have faced some of the same issues. I'm curious.  How mach damage will Ra-Tiel's oil flask do?  Will armor get any DR against it?  

I think some of the equipment (mostly the alchemical stuff), if you can find it in the setting, will indeed need to have a pass and the stats modified.  For example, I'd scale down acid to do only 1d4 damage for example.  Still potentially fatal for children or the weak, but on the average person it would be very damaging but not fatal.  Armor should provide DR against the acid flask And oil flask IMO.  The acid would likely be too weak to eat through and entire suit quickly, and the armor would afford the wearer some protection against a lit oil flask.

The other standard weapons (swords, etc.) would likely keep all the damage and critical hit stats.

Ivar, I'm curious about some fluffier aspects.  Do you have any ideas on an actual campaign setting or adventure series yet?

Fluffy may not be my middle name, but I do have some ideas on a setting and some stuff for a campaign.  I just need to put pen to paper.  I thought getting the system right would be the hard part.  

The setting I have in mind is basically an "alternate history" type, where the PCs would be citizens in an ancient or medieval city in an alternate world, but otherwise it would be similar to history.  

Something similar to George RR Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series, the HBO series "Rome", etc.  

[Ivar]

As far as a setting is concerned, I'm wrestling with the idea of making this an alternate historical setting similar to one discussed in this thread:

http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?36456

The PCs would begin in a fictional city around 40 BC.  Roman politics, savage barbarians, uncharted territory, myths, legends, gods and goddesses, etc.