Friday Forum Philosophy - Week 6

[Kaptn'Lath]

But another development in the gaming world that touches on this is the idea of the Sandbox campaign setting, where the players are free to go do what they want to, and the game develops from the player direction.

THANK YOU! Sandbox is the way I prefer and the type of setting I want to make. I think this is an evolution of the DivSet vein of thinking without the "lacking focus or direction" complaints DivSet receives. Its a stage for the players. The Players use the stage to a more compelling story. Its not meant to have a direction, the players set the direction. The world just influences the players (and thus the plot) and supplies props to make the story real. The setting should be primarily a movie producer and less an editor or director.

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=Phoenix]If it was the story, we would all be writing fantasy books.[/blockquote]
I disagree.

Some people express by writing fantasy.  Some write poetry.  Some write music.  Some write their stories through painting, or photography.  Some people's creative outlet is dance.
And some people don't want to create story in these fashions, but some do.

I recently posted on another site that Story is not a byproduct of a roleplaying game, it is a natural product of it.  this is because I do believe that what we are creating through a properly crafted game (of which a setting is the active and passive background) is a shared narrative.

The medium through which I express myself is my setting and my game.  The product of this is story.  My setting is the truest, purest expression of my artistic vision.  

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I agree with LordVreeg.  I see the issue the other direction: if the main part is the setting then you are creating a piece of static art.  There needs to be story involved.

[Kindling]

Vreeg, I think that assumes that our "setting building" settings and the setting we actually game in are the same. In your case this might be true, but not mine. I've never gamed in either of the settings I have on the CBG, and probably never will, so there is no story to happen with them as its platform.

The game I run, is set in a world which I construct more or less as I go along, having decided a few basic "broad strokes" beforehand, and it is created as the needs of the story demand.

So, I suppose I'm kind of both agreeing and disagreeing with you. Setting can be all about story, or it can be an exercise in its own right. It all depends what the actual intention is...

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Vreeg, you're quoting CC and using my name. We're two different birds.

Also, your question brings me back to one of the topic questions:

How does a theme in literature differ from a theme in a setting?

[LordVreeg]

Crap.
That's what I get for posting at work.

To answer the question, the only difference between theme in literatuire and theme in setting design is the vehicle mentioned in the question.

I say this becauese I can use them interchangeable, land and literature, setting and story, treatise and territory.  I can use Middle-Earth to run a game, or Celtricia to write a story in.  And this is why Kindling's comments about the platform I respectfully dispute.  It is not that you do run games in them, it is that you can.  The shared narrative that is the active narrative component is not neccesary to make the same theme as one would use in a literatry work, as the Narrative is the outcome/product.  

However, I am recreant in my intitial post in not specifying that it is the realtionship between theme to setting and theme to literature that is identical.

[Superfluous Crow]

But Vreeg, when you run a game in Celtricia, or write a novel for it, it's a practical application of the setting material. The setting material still exists outside the story. Any story being actively told (let us call it an active plot) involves setting as an element to create a piece of fiction or gaming (depending on the interactivity of said story). A setting can have one or more passive plots; the stories which serve as the background of the setting. These are mostly stories of the past, to set the scene.  
In addition, in games, we can employ dormant plots; the sandbox plots which come into existence under certain criteria (mainly player interaction).
I'm not sure I said anything useful... I'm slighty tired. But know that i tried :p

[Nomadic]

I'd have to say I agree with both what vreeg is saying and what the rest of you are saying. Though I might be totally crazy, it doesn't seem like either side is actually in disagreement.

[LordVreeg]

But Vreeg, when you run a game in Celtricia, or write a novel for it, it's a practical application of the setting material. The setting material still exists outside the story. Any story being actively told (let us call it an active plot) involves setting as an element to create a piece of fiction or gaming (depending on the interactivity of said story). A setting can have one or more passive plots; the stories which serve as the background of the setting. These are mostly stories of the past, to set the scene.  
In addition, in games, we can employ dormant plots; the sandbox plots which come into existence under certain criteria (mainly player interaction).
I'm not sure I said anything useful... I'm slighty tired. But know that i tried :p

This made sense to me.
I need to check my medication.

OK...Active story is the product, then.
You said useful stuff, stuff that made me feel corroborated.  
I march onward.  (where's my wine?  Work is almost over...)