The Captain needs some Crunch help

[Xeviat]

I'm sure the oldtimmers know that I'm a very simulationist crunch designer, and I prefer for things to be "balanced". For a while, I was working on my own system, but I think I will be more successful if I create material for an existing system and try to sell a suppliment.

I have hit a road block. Right now, I am trying to quantify a few things (size and weight) in the rules. Size is already handled by the root system I'm using (Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition), but I find the current method unsatisfactory. The system also leaves out an effect for increasing a characters weight outside of the growth power, which was something that I found useful for statting races (like dwarves). For those unfamiliar with the system, Mutants and Masterminds (M&M) is a point based game with roots in d20. You spend points on everything, and have caps on your abilities set by the Power Level of the game. Things that are non-combative in nature aren't capped, except by the limits of your points.

What I'm looking for at the moment is a quick discussion on what increased Density in a character would do by default. I'm not looking for what heavy characters (like supers in comic books) tend to do, but what you think it would do by default. Each "rank" of density I am working with will increase a characters weight by x2, and will reduce a character's Athletics skill by 1 (since 1 strength doubles your lifting, double weight negates 1 strength). Things that weigh more are harder to move, which means it should provide some passive strength bonuses to resist things like forced movement or tripping. But, without added strength to counter the increased mass, should a more massive creature get any other bonuses?

Thank you for your time.

[Nomadic]

Just a quick post here but if a character is a bit denser than the typical human they will sink in water. Might make for an interesting racial fear of the stuff.

[Steerpike]

Might it make climbing/jumping significantly more difficult?  On the other hand it might help with other tasks that require stability, like hauling someone up with a rope who's dangling off the edge of a cliff.  Would greater density also possibly help protect against crushing or bludgeoning damage?  Denser bones wouldn't break as easily as lightweight ones.

[Xeviat]

It will definitely have an Athletics penalty (climbing, jumping), and it definitely will negate boyancy so you will not be able to swim without some other power (I think a suitable thruster would allow something to "fly" in water). And after much thought, I will be adding a damage resistance thing to it (D&D it would be extra hp, in M&M it's a Toughness defense bonus). It will also come with a bonus to resist forced movement, though I do have to go and make more detailed rules there than the book provides. I am also looking into a speed penalty (which can be boughtoff just like anything else), as I think heavy things should move slower; this speed penalty will be countered by a bonus to "slams" (when you use a movement power to just run into something, instead of simply using a melee attack; the damage dealt with a slam is your damage+1, or your movement power rank; more dense creatures will have slower movement, but that will be countered by a slam bonus since they have more mass and thus more force).

I purposefully avoided having a strength bonus (like the 2nd Edition Density effect had). While many, if not most, heavy characters are also strong characters, it is not a requirement. A tremendously overweight person (who will have an extra on their mass that makes them boyant, since they are not more dense, just larger for there size) does not automatically have the strength to lift there added weight, while someone who is massive due to muscles would.

Thanks for the input. Here's a slightly related question:

When does strength not matter when resisting forced movement? When does mass matter more? In the M&M math, each point of strength doubles your ability to lift. Someone with a 0 strength can lift 50 pounds, someone with 1 can lift 100, and someone with 2 can lift 200. A normal human's mass is rank 2 (between 101 and 200 pounds), but a normal human's strength is 0.

What would make you more resistant to movement? Increasing your mass category by 1, or increasing your strength by 1? This has been something that has bugged me ever since I saw a super strong character in a movie pull a helecopter down by pulling on a rope ladder; I thought that the character was so much less massive than the thrust of the propeller that tugging seemed like it would just allow the character to climb.

I am not a physics student, so I'm not sure how this really works out. Could tugging on the ladder make the helecopter move more than simply climbing up the ladder?