Diis Manibus: Discussion

[beejazz]

Yup, just your standard, run-of-the-mill discussion thread.
Didn't want to put this up until I posted something you haven't already seen. So far, all we've got is the revamped rules, the revamped races, and the revamped classes. In case anyone is wondering why I changed the halflings so much, I have three words: NAUTICAL SLAVE REBELLIONS. I just wanted to make the halflings a little more badass... it might sound silly, but I've got pictures that prove it's awesomeness. If I ever get a scanner, I might actually show you guys. But enough about halflings; DISCUSS.

Diis Manibus: Rules and Crunch
Diis Manibus: Secrets

[Matt Larkin (author)]

My personal opinion is that rolling a natural 1 and auto-missing one in 20 attacks is enough of a penalty.  Additional penalties are generally more frustrating than whatever they may add to the game.  Are we to believe a professional archer breaks his string once every 20 shots?  Sure it happens, but often enough that we need a special rule for it?

I do, however, like Defense bonus, armor as DR, and many of your other ideas.

A minor suggestion would be linking to this thread in the top.

Interesting idea about halflings.  I don't have them in my setting, but it does add some flavor.

[Túrin]

I am currently playing in a campaign that has been going for almost a year now, and we have used a natural-1-makes-bad-things-happen rule for all of that time. This has proven to be easily long enough for me to come to hate it. It just annoys me to death every time it comes up, whether on a PC or NPC. I find the realism-argument for it to be weak at best, and gameplay-wise I can see no advantage for it, except annoying players and effectively stealing turns from them. SO, from personal experience, I advise against it.

Túrin

[beejazz]

I originally started using the natural one rules because of complaints regarding the fact that guns would never "jam up" I've used them and gone without them... and pretty much had fun either way. Like most of my changes it's more of a descriptive aide than a statistical necessity. I'm glad to have some support on the halflings... I just thought it was time to get rid of the sissy rural bull and give them a reason to adventure. One of my big worries is the barbarians with natural armor... I worry that it waters down the AC penalty for rage. I figured it was okay though, in that a barbarian remains consistently behind a fighter in terms of AC pretty much regardless.

[CYMRO]

SO, from personal experience, I advise against it.

Agreed.  It was annoying twenty years ago. I cannot imagine playing in a game today that resurrected such a thing.

I originally started using the natural one rules because of complaints regarding the fact that guns would never "jam up"

Clearing a jamed round takes very little time for a practiced professional, easily represented by a failed attack roll.

[beejazz]

I dunno... worked for me anyway. Considering it only took.. what? A move action to fix? Wasn't that terribly inconvenient. And it's just so crazy when you attack the monk with a spiked chain and he just wraps it around his wrist, grins, and pulls.

[beejazz]

Okay... I'm thinking limitations on magic items.

Going to update my gunslinger PrC soon.

Could use some feedback on exotic flails-chains-kusarigama PrC, too. I was thinking flurry strikes, extra reach... what else?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I think both the kusari-gama and spiked chain are such awesome weapons they do not need a prestige class dedicated to them.  What a wielder of these weapons needs is feats, which he can get from Fighter.  You could also use the CW's Exotic Weapon's Expert, though I'm not fond of it for flavor reasons.  Things like iaijutsu are good for kusari-gama, or sneak attack.  But these are also already available to base characters.

[beejazz]

Yeah... still. I am, after all, a player-centric DM... and if players want a flails-n-chains freak, who am I to say no? Especially when one of my races' favored weapons are flails and chains. Speaking of which, I was thinking of pulling a Link move and letting players pull foes towards themselves with their weapons. Touch attack and opposed strength check, whaddaya say?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

It sounds like a reverse bull rush.  I don't see any reason it couldn't work (rules-wise), but it should basically count as a bull rush and be a full round action.  No in terms of realism, I think it unlikely you could quite do what Link does with a grapple-shot using a kusari-gama (the person seems more likely to lose balance and fall down than just be yanked flying through the air).

[beejazz]

Meh... it's only a five-foot pull, and even then, I'm thinking of replacing the five-foot-square with the square meter. Besides, realism comes second to just plain coolness.

[SA]

Darn you! Got there before me!

Seriously though, the principles of reality manipulation in Dystopia involve collapsing wave function and M-Theory.  I'm even using ontological paradoxes (the cyclical non-origin of your Evard's Black Tentacles)!

Not that it's a problem that we're operating on similar principles, but it's often nice when you get there first...

Nevertheless, this is an ingenious use of scientific theory for fantastic purposes, and I look forward to more of your trademark beejazz craziness.

[beejazz]

lol... "trademark Beejazz craziness."
I really like the sound of that.
I was kind of worried I'd just come off as being lame.

[Xeviat]

Beejazz, I wasn't sure if I should put this here or in your crunch thread:

You have the armor DR as follows:
*Leather's provide DR/piercing
*Chains provide DR/bludgeoning
*Plates provide DR/slashing

I recently learned how to weave chain and I've been talking with lots of armorers lately, and I think you have things a little off. The weapons used to deal with plate armor were typically bludgeoning and piecing weapons (specifically hammers, maces, and picks); blades did next to nothing against plate (unless you used a huge two hander, but then the goal is to bend the plate around a muscle like the bicep so the arm can't be bent).

Chain, on the other hand, provides very little protection against piercing attacks, and moderate protection vs. bludgeoning. Chain works by keeping blades off your skin and by widening the impact; it's like the difference between being hit with a 1 pound hammer and a 1 pound pillow: same weight, larger distribution. Chain is never worn against the skin, it has padding underneith, so the two together pad out the attacks.

As for leather, leather seems to absorb and deflect the same all around. Leather armor is not supple, it is at the very minimum work hardened (usually it will be wax or oil hardened). Technically it is almost as protective as steel plate (though it takes less effort to destroy leather armor than plate armor).

I think if you want variety, you could try this: leave leather AC and DR alone, but increase the DR provided by chain while decreasing it's AC, and increase the AC of plate while slightly decreasing it's AC. Plate protects by keeping attacks out, while chain protects by padding attacks. Then, make the DR DR/adamantine (since adamantine cuts though hardness like butter). Adamantine armor can then change the DR to DR/-.

Let me know what you think.

[beejazz]

Wait...
This is awesome!
Game-balance wise I can't be sure, though...
I made class-based AC and armor AC stack on the assumption that DR could be pretty easily overcome. This might put the advantage on the defense, thereby prolonging fights.