Necromancy

[Velox]

My favorite school of magic! Seriously, when I play a mage or a cleric, all the fun spells are the necromancy ones; inflict wounds, cause fear, curse, blindness, contagion, poison, death knell, vampiric touch and/or spectral hand, rays of pitiful stupidity and disgusting weakness, energy drain, and of course the raising and creating of undead. Not only are the spells fun and useful, but I love the sheer maniacal evil of it.

I never ever get to play a maniacal necromancer because everyone else in the party has "morals" and they consider it "desecration"... superstitious non-sense! Just because its the quickest path to power doesn't mean it's the prettiest or nicest path to power.

Plus, I love the aesthetics of it. Lots of black clothes, demonic iconography, and skulls. Chicks dig the skulls.

Who else is a necrophile? er....

...and what's the best path to power? Pure divine? Pure arcane? A mix?

[Wensleydale]

Pure divine... arcane ones generally suck...

[Velox]

yeah, I think the rebuking of the undead is essential to collecting and controlling the drooling horde. Plus, you can heal your rotting minions with inflict spells. Arcane necromancers just aren't good at maintaining an army of the things.

[Elven Doritos]

Wizards suck at necromancy, true. Don't blame arcane magic itself, however...

The Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is a great example of how specialist schools can be tweaked into effective arcane casters. And before we go into a core/expanded debate, I was merely pointing out that while core necromancy may suck for arcane, but there *are* alternatives.

:)

[beejazz]

Meh... a wizard who specialized in necromancy often forgets his most potent tool: A FAMILIAR.
Seriously, those instant-death touch attacks are freaking brutal! But with your hit points, you can't wade into melee. That's what familiars and spectral hands are for.

And again, wizards are better with the offensive spells. You want minions? SUMMON. It's okay to mix demons and offensive necromancy.

[the_taken]

What I learned from K's Revised Necomancer Handbook:

Clerics make haunted houses full of mindless 'uncontrolled' undead, and keep an elite qadre of strong meat shields.
Wizards are the kings of SoDs, especialy the Red Wizard. That Familair is alot of help.
Dread Necromancers make awesome skeleton horders, especialy when supplimenting with Undead Leadership.
Wizards also make the best Uttercold Assualt necromancers. Incantirx or Loremaster, depending on the specific optimization.
Magicaly aligned arrows are the cheapest way to make Wights.

Just note that when using official material, the best way to become a better Necromancer is to become a better Spellcaster. Becoming a Mystic Theurge, a so called True Necromacer, or worse, a Yathrinshee is a bad idea. Warlocks also suck ass with necromancy.

[CYMRO]

...the best way to become a better Necromancer ...

Basic Necromancy,
Chapter One: Correct Use of Shovel. :D

[brainface]

Never really been impressed with dnd necros. I've had a lot of fun with them in other games, though. Especially the core spells--they're just kinda "blah" to me. Touch some one and hurt them? Man, i expect whirling cages of possessed bone to entrap and demoralize enemies from my necromancy. And screaming. lots of screaming.

[beejazz]

Mph...
keeping screaming human commoners tightly packed in wooden crates around your office is just fun.
Regardless of necromancy.

[Velox]

Oh yes, both the Arcane Necromancer and the Divine necromancer are viable characters, but they have different strengths. I prefer the classic "rotting horde" or dig-up-your-friends necromancer, which would require divine magic to be effective; the ability to rebuke and bolster your army, as well as command higher-quality undead, would be essential. Command and Control Undead arcane spells just don't have the oomph to keep an army of deaders in check.

@brainface: It all depends on how good your GM describes the spells. Touching and hurting people is what the "vicious poke" spell does. Inflict spells should be fancier, with agony and horror and evil.

@Beejazz: Yes, but Necromancy is putting your screaming commoner assets to work for you. Anyone who relies upon a human-slave heavy portfolio should invest in necromancy.

My personal favorite is the "-6 to Con" Curse, Contagion (Slimy Doom), and Poison Spells one after the other. If your foe doesn't die, he's on death's door. Time to bring in the skeletons with the greataxes.

Speaking of which... can you equip your undead? I didn't find much in favor or against it... except to say that "any weapons/attacks the base creature had the skeleton has". I guess that means that the corpses remember in death what the warriors knew in life. It would be alot more fun to be able to customize and craft your own army of dead soldiers.

[CYMRO]

Speaking of which... can you equip your undead? I didn't find much in favor or against it... except to say that "any weapons/attacks the base creature had the skeleton has". I guess that means that the corpses remember in death what the warriors knew in life. It would be alot more fun to be able to customize and craft your own army of dead soldiers.

A new feat is in order.

TUTOR UNDEAD
Prerequisite:  The ability to cast animate dead.
Benefit:  You can teach skeletons and zombies complex tasks as suited to their creature type.

[the_taken]

Nice idea. Too bad the description is so vague and left up to DM interpretation.

Maybe...
Benefit: Mindless undead you create by casting the Animate Dead spell, or using spell-like abilities wich mimic it, gain feats and skill points apropriate to their HD, in addition to any other bonus feats gained via racial bonuses of the base creatue or any abilities you have. They may use your ability scores and skill ranks or thier own to qualify for feats, wichever grants the greatest benefit. They also gain one level of warrior, dropping a single undead HD if they only have one to begin with, and may gain levels as NPCs. As undead, they still roll d12 for hitpoints.

[the_taken]

Might want to change the prerequisits to: Ablility to cast or mimc with a spell-like ability Animate Dead.

[Velox]

I looked up the "undead" subtype in the Monster Manual, and it specifically says "proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry", as well as "Proficient with whatever type of armor it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types."
 
I'm guessing that undead creature abilities and feats are based on the abilites and feats the base creature had before it died. There would be an advantage to raising your army from veteran warrior corpses, as opposed to simple peasants. While your commoner zombies will only be able to use clubs and leather armor, the soldier zombies can use swords and plate mail.

That would mean, then, that the undead creature has some memory of its previous life. Maybe it's like the "speak with dead" spell, in that soul and sentience of the living creature has passed on, but the memories and life experiences have left imprints and echos in the body, which the undead creature can draw upon.

Still, training in DnD is pretty general, and you can customize your dark army with new and better equipment. Give some of them tower sheilds and others bows, you've got a durable force with ranged power. Give them all great axes and plate mail, and chop up peasants (and look damn cool doing it).

[the_taken]

I looked up the "undead" subtype in the Monster Manual, and it specifically says "proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry", as well as "Proficient with whatever type of armor it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types."

Watch out! If you follow that rule, any skeleton raised from a human is only proficient with the scimitar, because it's entry mentions a scimitar.

I'm guessing that undead creature abilities and feats are based on the abilites and feats the base creature had before it died. There would be an advantage to raising your army from veteran warrior corpses, as opposed to simple peasants. While your commoner zombies will only be able to use clubs and leather armor, the soldier zombies can use swords and plate mail.

Under creating a skeleton, it says "A skeleton loses all feats of the base creature and gains Improved Initiative." Although it also says "A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that canâ,¬,,¢t work without flesh.", it doesn't say you can wield an axe without flesh.

By RAW, skeletons and zombies suck. I like your ruling, though. Will you be my DM?