D&D Setting (The Meatloaf Setting)

[Xathan]

Alright, some actual questions:

Although the reasons are unknown why the elves are returning, do they give reasons? Are they contradictory, or just not talking? What are they doing while back? Where can they be found outside their lands? And finally, do any elves allow the Enaid-Mal to take them, and what do these beings of immortal madness DO?!

[Xeviat]

Leetz, I started rereading this after I realized I started up a very similar thread. I'll be keeping my thread to the discussion of how crunch influences the rest, and if the discussion can be a help to your creation, all the better.

As for yours, I am loving what you have so far. The gnomes are impressive; I'm liking them so much that I am reconsidering having them in my setting again (I've sort of grown worried that only having one small race was limiting me somehow). Expect some more ideas from me.

One thing to remember, even going by the 3.5 DMG's rules for city creation, less than 1% of the population are spellcasters to begin with. Heck, less than 3% of the population have PC classes, so you already don't have to worry about them being prolific. Levels can get high; a city the size of Paris has 4 wizards of at least 13th level, and a 60% chance of having at least one that's level 16 (1d4+12 x4 for max level wizards in a metropolis).

I am also working on a fantasy medieval demographics system, for determining how many elves live in that forest.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Alright, some actual questions:

Although the reasons are unknown why the elves are returning, do they give reasons? Are they contradictory, or just not talking? What are they doing while back? Where can they be found outside their lands? And finally, do any elves allow the Enaid-Mal to take them, and what do these beings of immortal madness DO?!

No one really knows why the elves are slowly trickling back into human society (neither do I, I thought it was just a good plot point). As for the Enaid-Mal, no one wants it, yes it may be the road to physical immortality, but they merely be sedentary, semi-catatonic creatures for the rest of time.

I'm also thinking of changing the elven name for elves, Feywycin. I feel like it doesn't fit very well with the rest of the other names, too "exotic".

@Xeviat: Yeah, this thread is definitely more about fluff than crunch. I'm not terribly worried about demographics and class spreads, but more about realistic representations of race, conflict, and society (and economics to an extent I suppose as well)

[Xathan]

Alright, some actual questions:

Although the reasons are unknown why the elves are returning, do they give reasons? Are they contradictory, or just not talking? What are they doing while back? Where can they be found outside their lands? And finally, do any elves allow the Enaid-Mal to take them, and what do these beings of immortal madness DO?!

No one really knows why the elves are slowly trickling back into human society (neither do I, I thought it was just a good plot point). As for the Enaid-Mal, no one wants it, yes it may be the road to physical immortality, but they merely be sedentary, semi-catatonic creatures for the rest of time.

Do you plan on deciding why elves are trickling back, or is that going to be left up to DMs?

And if no one wants it, ever, then how do they know what happens? Is it faith? Do they have past examples? Are there any who succumbed to it still around? Is captivity until Enald-Mal sets in their version of capital punishment? Can I steal this idea but alter it slightly?

I'm also thinking of changing the elven name for elves, Feywycin. I feel like it doesn't fit very well with the rest of the other names, too "exotic".

I'll admit I have no freaking idea how you pronounce it. Fah-i-wiccan? Fae-why-sin? As my typical rule of thumb, if I can't said it out loud easily, it probably needs work.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Would calling them simply the Fe be too simple or similar to fey? The Aesila?

[sparkletwist]

As my typical rule of thumb, if I can't said it out loud easily, it probably needs work.

With an exception given to Lovecraftian-inspired settings, I'd hope. :grin:

Anyway, I think "Fe" is too close to fey/fae/whatever, but a lot of elves have those kinds of roots, so the similarity may not be entirely a bad thing?

[O Senhor Leetz]

Haha so name change. A handful of ideas: Aeld, Faen, Cin, Sile?

[O Senhor Leetz]

Hello everyone. I would like to start working on this setting again. But before that, I had a 3E conundrum - how come elves live the longest of all the core PC races, but have the lowest constitution, the universal attribute for health and durability. Shouldn't dwarves and/or gnomes live the longest?

[Xathan]

Welcome back, Leetz!

I've never actually thought about this, but here's an answer off the top of my head:

Con refers to your ability to resist damage and diseases, as you pointed out. The lifespans presented for the PC races refer to how long you'll live without those being a factor - in short, it refers to your genetic lifespan. Those two could be independent. In game terms, while they start off less healthy than most races, the time it takes them to start taking additional penalties to Con from age is much higher than most, creating longer lifespans. In addition, in many worlds Elves live in fairly isolated communities, limiting their exposure to foreign pathogens, so they may be resistant to the relatively few diseases they encounter in their lives while still being more susceptible than most to new illnesses they encounter.

[Steerpike]

Hey welcome back!

I think the "real" reason Elves live longer is because that's how Tolkien wrote them, and Tolkien Elves probably have +4 to every stat anyway. Vulcans may also be to blame here.

Going by D&D rules and assuming that Constitution correlates with age, it makes way more sense for Dwarves/Gnomes to live the longest.

[Weave]

You could also say that maybe the elves, being the de facto nature-loving Magic users, draw their unnaturally long lives from arcane sources.

Also, welcome back!

[O Senhor Leetz]

thanks for the welcomes everyone!

Con refers to your ability to resist damage and diseases, as you pointed out.

But isn't that how the majority of people die? From diseases or cancers or other illnesses?  

Going by D&D rules and assuming that Constitution correlates with age, it makes way more sense for Dwarves/Gnomes to live the longest.

I think that would be an interesting take. And considering the Meatloaf setting (removing what eventually became Grindelrath) is fluffing the 3.5E crunch,* that would make sense right?

*With certain creative license, of course.

[Xathan]

But isn't that how the majority of people die? From diseases or cancers or other illnesses? 

Oh, absolutely. It's very possible that no elf ever manages to reach their natural lifespan - so while in theory, elves can live the longest of any races, in practice, they rarely even outlive humans.

Going by D&D rules and assuming that Constitution correlates with age, it makes way more sense for Dwarves/Gnomes to live the longest.

I think that would be an interesting take. And considering the Meatloaf setting (removing what eventually became Grindelrath) is fluffing the 3.5E crunch,* that would make sense right?

*With certain creative license, of course.

Please do that! It'd be interesting to see what changes with your elves once they no longer have the smug cultural superiority that comes from being the longest lived of all races. And what happens to your dwarves/gnomes now that they do have that.

[Steerpike]

I think that would be an interesting take. And considering the Meatloaf setting (removing what eventually became Grindelrath) is fluffing the 3.5E crunch,* that would make sense right?

Yeah, definitely. The only ways I can think of for Elves to really be so long-lived would be something like:

- Tons of Clerics to keep the population highly resistant to disease and injury. All Elven households would have "medicine cabinets" with potions of Remove Disease, Restoration, etc. Clerics cast Raise Dead/Resurrection whenever an Elf dies.
- Ubiquitous Con-boosting magic items or other items that let them resist disease/injury that the Elves wear whenever they venture outside of their secret, insolated lands. Because of the number of Elven mages these might not be uncommon, and Elves would leave their enclaves only rarely.
- Something else keeps them long-lived, like magical tree-sap or enchanted water or something, or maybe Elves that die are immediately reborn back in their homelands (this is kind of how it works in Tolkien - dead Elves eventually get new bodies, they just almost never go back to Middle Earth)

Even with those augmentations it still probably makes sense to keep Dwarves/Gnomes as super-old.

[O Senhor Leetz]

To really turn everything on its head, considering the Constitution issue, what if Elves lived the shortest lives of all the races, considering their frailty? *MIND BLOWN*

Crunch-wise, that would make sense, right? As Steerpike said, it's really only Tolkien's influence that makes us automatically think of elves as wise and long-lived.

Would they become more warlike? Volatile? Rash? Impatient? Vulnerable to corruption and evil deeds? If, as per 3.5E, elves do not require sleep, a war-band of elves would be terrifying, as they could march and fight around the clock to less disadvantage. Not sleeping would also gives elves approximately %33 more time during their lives to do things (if we figure 8 hours a day are spent asleep).

What if, to counter their possibly short lives, they were born with ancestral memories and knowledge, so that by the time they are 1 they can speak and learn, thoughtfully practice warfare at 10, so by the time they reach 18 years old they are incredibly skilled and intelligent, even though they may die by the time they reach 60 or 70.