D&D Setting (The Meatloaf Setting)

[Superfluous Crow]

Lath does bring up a matter as yet untreated: how do you intend to handle your gods/religions: earth-walking, plane-residing, dead, inexistent, spirits etc

[O Senhor Leetz]

I actually was thinking about that last night.

One thought I had was akin to how arcane spellcasters need to have "The Spark". What if divine spellcasting was the same way? These 'God-Born' children would tap into the divine much the way Wizards can tap into the arcane.

However, that being said, the God's are not tangible like in most D&D settings, but that doesn't keep people from being religious. If these God-Born are from a large city, they are most likely enlisted into the ranks of a prominent temple. Prophet or messiah may be too strong of words, but think of the Dalai Lama.

If they are from a rural area, they may become renowned healers, shamans, wise-men/wise-woman, witchdoctors, etc.  

Just as in real world, region, culture, and heritage strongly influence religion, so "picking" and patron deity wouldn't make much sense. So I think a monotheistic religion will work best. However, that doesn't mean it can't have multiple facets to it, maybe a pantheon of saints, or a single god with multiple faces. A world spanning religion wouldn't be fun either. Rumors of the Seven-Faced God of the southern kingdoms, the Singer-In-The-Stone of the northern mountain nomads, or the cult-demons of the Umbriel all provide great background fluff and keep the world mysterious.

(PS. I never really liked domains anyways, seemed like a lazy way to make Clerics unique. Maybe trim down the spell list depending on the Cleric's general beliefs? So you could have legendary healers, pious soothsayers, or great war-priests)

[Llum]

One thought I had was akin to how arcane spellcasters need to have "The Spark". What if divine spellcasting was the same way? These 'God-Born' children would tap into the divine much the way Wizards can tap into the arcane.

Doesn't this essentially turn clerics into wizards with a different spell list? The only difference seems to be semantics, especially to some random peasant. What's to stop a wizard claiming that where he draws his magic from is divine rather than arcane?

[Steerpike]

If there's a monotheistic religious thing going, what if Wizards are the "Satanic" equivalents of the God-Born?  Perhaps the Wizards don't consider themselves fiendish/diabolical and do see the God-Born as nothing more than Wizards with a different spell list.

This opens up a lot of possibilities for oppressive religious structures, witch-hunts, etc.

[Kindling]

Monotheism seems to be taking a significant step away from the standard "implied setting" of D&D.

Just sayin'.

[Weave]

One thought I had was akin to how arcane spellcasters need to have "The Spark". What if divine spellcasting was the same way? These 'God-Born' children would tap into the divine much the way Wizards can tap into the arcane.

Isn't it just for flavor anyways? I mean, as far as I could tell, they really were the same with different spell lists (albeit different BABs and Hit Die), and there were times when the two had the same spells available between them (bards, for instance, got all the Cure X Wounds spells, despite being arcane casters. A cleric of the arcane domain could get Dispel Magic, one of the illusion domain would get Mirror Image or Mislead, etc). With splatbooks it only got worse, but even the core of D&D 3.X had its crossovers.

I can see how giving them a "divine spark" might make flavorful similarities to an arcane caster, but it really all comes down to how you play the class. As long as they remain mechanically different ("praying" for spells every morning or evening), then I don't see it as an issue. If they just spout off spells at a whim, then yeah, it'll be difficult for a peasant to tell the difference, especially if they don't act like a religious person or something.

[Superfluous Crow]

Also, while changing all the classes is a viable option, you'd again be taking a detour from the D&D-ness of it all. You have to adapt more than change (although small changes and additions are harmless of course).
 
I do like the idea of some humans being essentially "religious royalty"; god-kings worshipped and pampered by their worshippers for their infrequent miracles in temples and shrines. They are not really an adventurer-appropriate character option, though, so you probably have to find another "way in" for clerics.

[Kaptn'Lath]

check pathfinder, you might like their basic classes.

I went down a similar path, and in 3.5 when i got to classes i made three generic classes (pretty similar to the ones in Unearthed Arcana) but with pathfinder there is too much STUFF to simplify to balanced choices. Take a look, if your interested in the generic class option I posted them up here oh so long ago if you want a look.

Classes is a sacred cow i think if you want a DnD feel. I use a mixture of lvl 1 fighters and warriors for town gaurds, but in a town of 500 the sherrif is lvl 3-4ish, 3000 maybe 6-7ish? lots of low level (1-2) PC levels where apropriate for the specialist/skilled non-farmer peasentry. Churches are Clerics and Acolytes (NPC non caster), Nobility must have atleast one level to Aristocrat NPC plus whatever. Peasents are level 0 ect.

[LordVreeg]

I do have a d20 varient I created, just becasue there are some fun, easier things classes can create, especially that mythic, heroic feel.  The feel that 1/100 or less of the population has some ability to improve themselves past the boundaries of the normal.

Fantasy races in general don't make sense in most settings.  My d20 does not use them as PCs, there are instead different cultural human backgrounds.  
What makes less sense in most D&D games is the interaction between the races, and the reality checks.  The elves living so long is one major issue.  One thing you can do with them in a class based system is to make the % of them that can achieve levels lower.  That experience matters less when it does not add significant power, and if there are a higher % of humans who are level-capable, that offsets the wisdom of ages.  Does not mean you can't have some level-capable elves and dwarves, just a lower NPC %, which counteracts any racial/cultural longevity issues.

I actually made my dwarves, gnomes and hobbits all part of the same racial sub-group, to adhese them to the setting more.  They represent the workers, the spiritualists, and the quartermasters of the 'working folk', respectively.  You need to work backwards from history and intertwine them with culture and identiry that is setting-specific.  My Hobyts have overtaken the others to become the most populous race.

Also, almost all races crossbreed in my settings.  JoMalley is playing an elf/ogre crossbreed right now in Igbar.  Just saying.  Throw shit on it's head.
  You don't have to do it, but you can create some pretty cool stories, if, say the short races all crossbreed, or stuff like that.

Classes are something that I needed to make real for me.  I dumped them decades ago for skill based, so one of the ideas of creating a d20 0D&D variant was to create something that classes made sense with.  For magic to work (both divine and otherwise) and not take over the setting, or at least so it does not stretch belief of the players why more things have not changed, you need to have magic being rare.  You NEED to.  
[spoiler=Celtricia text  not totally relevant] I took years working on Celtricia, and something that came up after about year 10 was that the cultures and tech I had in the world was lacking sense based on the way magic had been created.  I had to tweak both to create more setting congruency, but it had a massive effect on the play and the immersion.  All the players had more buy in.  Even last night, on the IRC channel, players were looking at spells and seeing how some of the spells can be used in a social settingl and some were asking how the setting prepares for them, i.e., the fact that since magic is known about to a point, how common is the counterprogramming/expectation that magic is going to be used?
Celtricia is actually at sort of an 'Age of Reason' time period, despite lower tech, due to the places rthat magic replaces technology.  [/spoiler]
This means you literally need a frequency distriution of how many of what power casters you want in thw world, and then back it up with the rules


magic items were always wierd to me as well.  I like to have actual spells tied to magic items.  It is one of the main things later editions of D&D get wrong.  Commonplace is the opposite of special.  Magic items that are commonplace therefore are less than magical-feeling.  
Something I like to do is use a lot of spell charges on items.  a +1 Longsword does become pretty lame.  

By the way, just becasue you have one monotheistic faith does not mean you can't have other religions that are more trad.  Might be a nice setting conflict.  

[O Senhor Leetz]

I was reading through this the other day while I put of packing all my things and thought that this was a decent idea I should at least try to keep going, even if it's for a Holiday one-shot or short campaign. At the second I don't have much time to go too in depth, but the idea of the setting was thus: a mature, somewhat dark, intelligent, fable-like setting based roughly on Gygaxian D&D. Here's a quick list of things.

1. Low-fantasy, low-magis.

2. Focus on a single kingdom with a single important city.

3. Monotheistic religion (At least in the immediate kingdom)

4. There are still elves and dwarves and most of the other races, but they will be seriously over-hauled to be believable species and cultures.

5. A fable-like feeling where monsters are more rare, but more dangerous as well.

6. An increased feeling of lethality as opposed to Vanilla D&D where the PCs are much more powerful than the norm.

7. Rare, dark, and mysterious magics.

8. A "clean" aesthetic, nothing too funky  or anachronistic. Very Tolkienesque.

9. Some ideas for power groups: The King and the Royal House, the Issereme (wizard college), the Temple of the Goddess (better name to come), a somewhat shadowy trade guild (thieves guild), a strong but hidden cult to some older god: nothing new here I know, just some ideas.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Reinventing the Elves

Now, this will be short, as I don't have a lot of time, but by the end of this week, when I'm finally back in the States, I will have plenty of free time and long dark winter nights to sit down a properly work on this. Any how, here is a list of points that I intend to follow through on in order to reinvent the common trope elf, keeping true to the classical ideas, but fixing things are unbelievable, nonsensible, boring, or overly simples.

1. An Ever-So-Brief History. In the Elder Days, before the arrival of Man, the Elves, or as they called themselves, the Syl'uwy'cyn, were the undisputed regents of the East. They of course fought wars against giants and the darker creatures of the older years, but they were never in risk of falling from their wild thrones. Then Man came from across the sea from the West, made war with the Elves, and drove them back to their darkest and deepest forests that spread forever to the east. Now, while the Elves still rule the infinte forests realms of the east, they rest in an uneasy truce with Man.

2. The Elves are not the wise and cheerful stereotype, chaotic neutral instead of chaotic good. They are the caretakers of the forests, they do so with a drawn bow, not a smile. While they are intelligent, they are so in a different way than Man, being an entirely different creature. Their intelligence is feral and cold, not unlike a wolf. They do not build beautiful cities in the trees, resplendant with warm light and peace, but live as nomads within the endless expanse of trees, hunting and gathering. But that is not to say they are simple barbarians, as they have excelled in all arts that do not require permenancy: song and oral tradition runs strong, and Elven myths seem to have no number as to the ways they can be told. Their language is rich and nuanced, and while rarely written, it has a beautiful, tangles script. They are excellent hand-weavers, but shun heavy looms. As far as iron and metal work goes, they only carry small forges, just big enough to work arrow- and spearheads - swords and metal armor are unknwon amongst most Elves. A certain tradition of rustic-alchemy also runs strong in their culture, using the mryiad plants, fungi, animals, florals, and other things that are available in the forest.

[Niccodaemus]

I've created a low magic fantasy setting, Shatterworld. Basically, if you removed all the magic and monsters from the setting, 99% of the population would never notice. They've never seen a spell cast, and never met a dwarf, elf, gnome or halfling. They've never seen a dragon or giant. Odds are they've seen a gryphon more then several times per year, and perhaps a wyvern or worm a few times in their lifetime.

The problem with making a race "alien", is that once it becomes available as a PC race, that is nearly impossible to do. It just becomes another guy with pointy ears who is really good with a particular weapon. Sort of like the Star Trek TNG alien of the week.

To keep non-humans "alien" feeling, my campaign is designed to be played by human PCs only.

http://shatterworldrpg.blogspot.com/

[O Senhor Leetz]

EDIT

[O Senhor Leetz]

Now that we've been talking about d20, I've been getting nostalgic and want to see if this can get rolling again. I'll spare you all and not rewrite the whole idea, but I think a quick list will do.

1. Building a believable, intelligent, and interesting setting around the basic premises of 3/3.5 DnD. In my mind, it is a clean, somewhat sparse, melancholic, dark aesthetic set in a classic Medieval setting.

2. To use the stock information - races, classes, spells - as much as possible without trying to change them too much. The re-naming of classes and spells, however, will definitely happen.

3. Find a good balance between making the races believable and sticking to the canon material.

4. Focus, for now, on a single kingdom, which also means not using everything in the books from the get go, player races included.  While there may be the rare, lone elf or band of elves, they have no permanent home in the immediate area. Maybe dwarves could be the primary non-human race.

I'm also on the fence whether to have setting be more in the North, with all that comes with that, or the South, with all that comes with that.

EDIT: Also, like I mentioned before, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here - I just want to make a really nice wheel. :)

Alright, here's a quick seat-of-the-pants thing for the immediate setting kingdom in the most D&D way - The Stat Block!


[ic=Tessere]
Titles: The Realm-Between-Rivers, The Red Kingdom
Alignment: Lawful neutral
Capital: [Capital City]
Ruler: The Red King Arreme Pyran Myrathir III
Government: Monarchy
Natives: Tessene
Adjective: Tessene
Languages: Common
Religions: The Seven, The Red Sword Cult, The Wight-King Cult (Forbidden)

History: Founded sometime around 200 years (202-EE, EE standing for Eastern Era. The current year is 1114-EE) after the coming of Man from across the Western Sea, the land of Tessere existed only as a backwater vassal to the First Kingdom for most of its 900-odd year life. Despite being the southernmost kingdom of Man and spared from the most brutal fighting, Tessere too was forged by the great Elven Wars between the newly arrived Humans and the native Elves that raged in different forms and lands from 0-EE until 712-EE.

Once peace fell between Man and Elf, the First Kingdom, without enemies to fight soon fell, and from the corpse of that vast realm emerged dozens of smaller successor kingdoms, Tessere included. Urrem Pyran Myrathir, a distant relation to the royal family of the First Kingdom and famed general during the Elven Wars, proclaimed himself the Red King of Tessere in 714-EE. The Myrathir family has ruled ever since.

Since the founding of the kingdom 399 years ago - there is great anticipation for the 400th anniversary of the founding of Tessere - there have been years of peace and years of war - in it's early years, Tessere was renowned for its wealth and the might and wisdom of it's arcane college - the Issereal.  Three bloody civil wars - The Magpie Wars (802-EE to 823-EE) the Bastard's Rebellion (846-EE) and the Corsair Wars (901-EE to 943-EE) - all weakened the land, and the Wight-King War nearly brought Tessere to its knees in 984-EE.

Now, the kingdom is at peace. The vassals of the Crown are seemingly loyal. There is great excitement for the 400th year since the founding of Tessere, as great festivals are planned across the realm, and the current king, Arreme Pyran Myrathir III, although old and said to be in failing health, is universally regarded as a wise and just ruler.

But, as always, there are rumors. The Issereal are not as benevolent, nor unified, as they seem. There are whispers of possible rebellion once the current Red King passes, as the heir to the throne is a mere shadow of his father. And the clergy of the Seven seem to be nervous about rumors of the return of the Wight-King, an enemy they claimed to have killed more than a century ago...

Geography
Tessere is the southermost of the successor kingdoms that came from the fall of the First Kingdom. To the north and east, it is bordered by the Minas Fer and the Minas Or mountains, respectively. To the south and the west sits the Western Sea.

Most of Tessere is composed of grassy, rolling hills, punctuated by small but dense forests and marshlands. To the north and east it is substantially rougher, as can be expected in the foothills of mountains. Two great rivers cut through the realm, the Herren, flowing south from the Minar Fer, only to turn west towards the sea, and the Nosere, flowing west from the Minas Or. The heart of Tessere is located in the western lands between the two rivers, giving rise to one of its nicknames - the Realm-Between-Rivers.

To the west sit the Pillared Isles, a chain of islands infamous for its pirates and corsairs, especially since the Corsair War two centuries past.

In Tessere, summers are long, dry and warm and winters are short, cool, and wet. Frost is rare, but so is extreme heat, as winds from the Western Sea keep the climate fairly moderate all year.

To the North, past the Minas Fer, are the Twin Kingdoms of Ossiad and Marn. While today the Twin Kingdoms and Tessere and on friendly, if somewhat cool terms, the nations fought each other in the Herren Wars of 1066-EE as Tessere came to the aid of invaded Herrenhold.

Religion
Like most of the successor kingdoms, the primary faith in Tessere is the Temple of the Seven. The Seven are gods as old as mankind itself, brought from across the Western Sea more than a thousand years ago. Yet over the years, as humans spread across the land, each kingdom, hold, and realm began to develop its own unique way to worship of the Seven. While the Seven Gods are the same in every land, their importance, portfolios, and popularity are not.

Within Tessere, the three most popular of the Seven are the Mother, the Maiden, and the Crone. The remaining four - the Seer, the Warrior, the Wanderer, and the Watcher - are still worshiped, but do not claim many faithful. The Red Sword Cult - an ancient Tessene cult that worships a great warrior-hero of the Elven Wars - includes those who would normally worship the Warrior and the Watcher, and the forbidden Wight-King Cult takes those of a darker nature who may normally follow the Seer or the Wanderer.

Government
The Red Kingdom of Tessere is actually a union of several somewhat independent realms. The core of the Kingdom is obviously Tessere, which properly refers to the land between the Herren and Nosere Rivers, has always been the most populous, powerful, and wealthy of all the southern lands. But outside the Realm-Between-Rivers exist three other fiefdoms that owe allegiance to Tessere - the wooded realm of Iranisse to the east and the mountain keeps of Herrenhold and the grasslands of Gallese to the north.

The rule of Tessere has not always been accepted, and since the founding of the kingdom, at least three major civil wars have erupted, often caused by at least one of the three lesser realms proclaiming independence.

Magic
Magic and its study are strictly watched and regulated by the Issereal, who, in practice, owe allegiance to the Red King of Tessere. The policies of the Issereal have swung between acceptance and condemnation towards magic-users who do not belong to the order. Currently, the Issereal are none to friendly towards what they see as "rogue arcanists", and there are plenty of rumors of various hedge-wizards and folk-healers who have gone "missing".

The Issereal, officially the Arcane Order of the College of the Issereal, is based in [Capital City]. It is a fairly prestigious order, with most of its initiates being hand picked by the order itself. As an organization, it is very conservative, and prefers to look to the past instead of the future. It views strange and novel ideas about magic as near-heretical.

Those magic-users who exist outside the Issereal are often recluses, hiding from potential witch-hunts or seeking privacy in their often unsound magic practices. While there are rumors from the North of a type of wizard called a "sorcerer" who can wield magic as one wields his voice, there seem to be no bloodlines in the lands Tessere that are blessed, or cursed, with that innate ability. The magic of Tessere is one of study, ritual, and practice.

[Xeviat]

Seems like a fun project. Typical D&D, where your expectations are generally right. Something nice and comforting, easy to get into. I'll definitely keep an I on how this grows from here out.