D&D Setting (The Meatloaf Setting)

[Xeviat]

It was because Sorcerers were an experiment. If you dig through Monte Cook's 3rd party books, he had an alternate Sorcerer spell list that might suit you more. But it was nice for sorcerers to be able to use wizard scrolls. Then again, just give them "use magic device" as a skill (if you're using 3E).

[O Senhor Leetz]

I'll have to look into that, Monte Cook's one of the best things that 3E had going for it.

But, as I said, I'm not sure that Sorcerers will be a factor in the current area (except, I just realized, Sorcerers could descend from some intermingling between Dragons and Humans long ago during the War in the West...)

So, for now, I think the primary Classes that are present in the current area will be the Fantastic Four (Fighter, Wizards, Rogue, Cleric) and maybe Bard and Paladins (involved solely with the Red Sword Cult [which I may rename, because it has an evil tone to it]).

As for Class backgrounds, I suppose characters could learn their skills from a.) an organization like the Issereal for Wizards, the [Thieves Guild] for Rogues, or the Temple of the Seven for Clerics or b.) learning from a single person, apprentice style. Fighters could have trained under an old curmudgeonly Fighter, or that a Wizard learned his craft from an old hermit Wizard in a hidden tower, etc. I think there needs to be an explanation to why the characters had the opportunity to earn such prestigious and rare Classes.

[Xathan]

So, for now, I think the primary Classes that are present in the current area will be the Fantastic Four (Fighter, Wizards, Rogue, Cleric) and maybe Bard and Paladins (involved solely with the Red Sword Cult [which I may rename, because it has an evil tone to it]). 

For the Red Sword Cult, I'd keep the cult name - it's cool to see that some people remember that cult doesn't mean "evil society" and just means "religious group, perhaps small or fringe." The Red is what makes it sound evil - I'd go with a color, but one that means blue/yellow/green/white - all four colors associated with calming or positive emotions.

On the other hand, keeping them called the Red Sword Cult and explaining why a group of holy warriors with a strict adherence to the very concept of good has such a sinister name would be some awesome flavor, so that would work too.

[O Senhor Leetz]

So, for now, I think the primary Classes that are present in the current area will be the Fantastic Four (Fighter, Wizards, Rogue, Cleric) and maybe Bard and Paladins (involved solely with the Red Sword Cult [which I may rename, because it has an evil tone to it]).  

For the Red Sword Cult, I'd keep the cult name - it's cool to see that some people remember that cult doesn't mean "evil society" and just means "religious group, perhaps small or fringe." The Red is what makes it sound evil - I'd go with a color, but one that means blue/yellow/green/white - all four colors associated with calming or positive emotions.

On the other hand, keeping them called the Red Sword Cult and explaining why a group of holy warriors with a strict adherence to the very concept of good has such a sinister name would be some awesome flavor, so that would work too.

I got all the Red ideas from the fact that Tessere, the immediate area, is on a west-facing coast, so the dusk, and the red light that comes from a sun setting over an ocean, would be an important thing in Tessere - hence the name the Red Kingdom, Red King.

I suppose gold could work too - The Gold Sword Cult doesn't sound terrible, except Red Sword Cult rolls off the tongue better. Plus, Paladins decked out in brilliant red full plate would just look awesome, ala...

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Xathan]

SOLD. Do it. Because it's awesome.

[O Senhor Leetz]

well in that case...

[ic=The Red Sword Cult]In the light of dusk,
Red judgement rides,
A-tremble foes,
Thou shalt not hide,
From bow nor spear,
nor blade so bright,
A-tremble foes,
The Red Sword rides!


Forged in the bloody War of the Wight-King, the Red Sword Cult is an order of Paladins founded upon the ideals of a the Paladin Cyrre ni'Semme. While many myths abound of his deeds, it is universally held that he was the one who hunted and cast down the Wight-King, banishing the foul necromancer before he himself fell from wounds he received in the legendary duel. Afterwards, his body was carried back to the city of Tessere, where it is still intered today within the Crimson Keep, the citadel that would later become the headquarters of the Cult.  

The Paladins of the Red Sword Cult, the organization itself founded by Cyrre ni'Semmes former companions shortly after his death in 984-EE, are sworn to hunt down evil practicioners of magic, no matter the cost. While a nominally good and benevolent order, they at times have been accused of being too zealous in their persecution of evil magic-users, at times punishing those who were most likely innocent. Since their founding nearly one-hundred and fifty years ago, they have become a powerful player in the politics of Tessere, and there recently has been a growing hostility between the Cult and the Temple of the Seven, who, while approving of their goals, accuse the Cult of naivity and brashness, preaching patience while the Cult preaches action.

The sworn members of the Red Sword Cult are all Paladins, and, in addition to their deeds, are famed for their red armor and swords. While they ironically do not wield red swords themselves - however, the hilts, pommels, and handles of their swords are lacquered in red - each Paladin, upon becoming a sworn member of the Red Sword Cult, is given a set of red-lacquered full plate, decorated with motifs of the setting sun in gold filigree. [spoiler=The Armor of the Cult]Each set of red full plate given to recently sworn members is most commonly +1, SR 13 full plate. While extremely costly, the true number of sworn members is suprisingly low.[/spoiler] A Paladin of the Red Sword in his full glory is truely a sight to behold. Within the Crimson Keep itself, the Red Sword itself is kept guarded within the citadel, but, when the need calls, it is given to a Red Sword Paladin of superb standing to hunt down a particularly dangerous threat. The last recorded use of the Red Sword was by the Paladin Illyn sa'Merren - then just twenty-two years young - against the mad necromancer Urricanter in 1070-EE.

[spoiler=The Red Sword Stats]
The Red Sword (+3, holy, keen longsword)

The Red Sword appears, for the most part, to be a simple, but well-made longsword. However, even the most casual observer is quickly drawn to the color of its blade - a deep, warm red that seems to glow at dusk. The hilt and pommel, while originally said to be made of steel, have since been gilded, and the handle is wrapped with black leather. Normally, the Red Sword is kept in the central chamber, the Duskhall, under heavy guard, and is only permitted to leave the Crimson Keep in the most dire of circumstances.[/spoiler]

[Xathan]

I love them. Love them, quite a bit. I want more details - who was Urricanter (other than a necromancer), and why he did deserve unleashing the Red Sword? What happened during the Wight War? How large scale was that conflict? And could a Red Sword Cultist be part of an adventuring group? Do they outsource when they need people with different talents?

[O Senhor Leetz]

I love them. Love them, quite a bit. I want more details - who was Urricanter (other than a necromancer), and why he did deserve unleashing the Red Sword? What happened during the Wight War? How large scale was that conflict? And could a Red Sword Cultist be part of an adventuring group? Do they outsource when they need people with different talents?

I don't want to spoil some plots I have in my head, but Urricanter was a necromance that came ever-so-close to raising the Wight-King himself.

The War of the Wight-King is really not that fleshed out, I just thought it sounded cool as I thought of past conflicts within Tessere. He was most likely a lich, raised an undead army, corrupted the King of Tessere, all that jazz. The Wight-King War most likely never escalated to a huge conflict, as Cyrre ni'Semmes defeated him before he could implement the really nasty parts of his plan. But there was still fighting, but on small scale, and were most likely massacres of the living by the undead and royal court assassinations and murders.

A Red Sword Paladin could most definitely be part of an adventuring party, and the Cult itself could most definitely seek assistance when it was needed.

[Xathan]

The War of the Wight-King is really not that fleshed out, I just thought it sounded cool as I thought of past conflicts within Tessere. He was most likely a lich, raised an undead army, corrupted the King of Tessere, all that jazz. The Wight-King War most likely never escalated to a huge conflict, as Cyrre ni'Semmes defeated him before he could implement the really nasty parts of his plan. But there was still fighting, but on small scale, and were most likely massacres of the living by the undead and royal court assassinations and murders.

I love little details like that - really makes a setting feel alive. Are you going to weave that into other organizations histories, or is this a conflict that's unique to the Red Sword Cult?

[O Senhor Leetz]

Yes and no. It a was fairly definitive event in the history of Tessere, but not especially unique to the Red Sword Cult. The Wight-King War in general though, effected the entire kingdom, maybe even neighboring realms.

EDIT: Holy crap, the first post of this was 95% grammatical errors.

[O Senhor Leetz]

How much should I connect the fluff with Classes? As an example, should Wizards all be descendants of earlier mage clans that came from the West, or is that going too far and restricting things?

[Xeviat]

Well, is the talent of a Wizard inborn? If it's just a scholarly tradition, it could come from one spring, but I don't see why it wouldn't then spread. Try as a group might, information is going to get out, Wizards are going to go rogue and train their own apprentices, and someone could even stumble upon the techniques blindly during their own study.

Since you are doing a small area, having the races be more monocultural than many settings, I think having monocultural classes would also make sense. All paladins stem from the Red Sword Cult ruled by humans (don't know if they are, just using your words here), all bards can trace their origins back to a wanderer from a bygone age whose writings formed the basis of a college, and all rangers follow the traditions of elven patriots who remained behind to fight off the encroaching humans.

Having both race and class matter culturally would be very cool. I've always liked having D&D classes stand out as more than just a collection of abilities. I never liked guiding someone to one class purely because of it's mechanics; I found the best characters were drawn to the class that embodied what they were, and the mechanics followed.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Well, is the talent of a Wizard inborn? If it's just a scholarly tradition, it could come from one spring, but I don't see why it wouldn't then spread. Try as a group might, information is going to get out, Wizards are going to go rogue and train their own apprentices, and someone could even stumble upon the techniques blindly during their own study.

Since you are doing a small area, having the races be more monocultural than many settings, I think having monocultural classes would also make sense. All paladins stem from the Red Sword Cult ruled by humans (don't know if they are, just using your words here), all bards can trace their origins back to a wanderer from a bygone age whose writings formed the basis of a college, and all rangers follow the traditions of elven patriots who remained behind to fight off the encroaching humans.

Having both race and class matter culturally would be very cool. I've always liked having D&D classes stand out as more than just a collection of abilities. I never liked guiding someone to one class purely because of it's mechanics; I found the best characters were drawn to the class that embodied what they were, and the mechanics followed.

No, Wizards become so through study. However, the catch is that the number of people who actually know magic well enough to teach it are few, and most likely don't want to teach even if they can. The second catch is that scrolls and arcane texts are rare, so the idea that Level 1 Jimmy can start out as a Wizard, even though he grew up on a farm, is right out of the question.

As for other classes, I think you're right, considering that it's such a relatively small campaign area, if the Classes are more closely tied to the fluff than normal.

However, I think I'm going to tweak some things. I think I'm going to push the Elven Wars back into the past a couple more centuries, as I feel that having the Humans settle the Eastern Realms only 1,000 years ago is too soon to get some of the depth I want. I also think that I'm going to bring the setting up towards a more temperate, cool realm, so that I can have winter and pull more "classic" elements into the area like trolls and giants, who I don't think fit that well in the south. Plus, if I'm going for the "Meatloaf" feel, I think I should stick to the Western European/England feel that classic D&D had.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Here's a thought pertaining to the uniqueness of adventurers as well as some of the other "inconsistencies" involved with the D&D setting.

-All the players are members of so-called "adventuring guilds" (they obviously wouldn't be called that, but that's what they do) where they have trained since childhood, either given to the guilds by their poor parents, found as orphans, or taken as payment for "quests". Different guilds could be famed for producing different Classes of adventurers, or combinations of them. That being said, there would not be many of these guilds at all, with each one consiting of only a few "parties" at any one time, so a dozen-odd members in each. The guilds would have a fairly dubious and dark reputation, as their prices are high and are usually only called upon the most dire circumstances (as mentioned, a small village being plagued by gnolls would not be able to afford the price in gold and silver, so they would pay with a child to be trained instead.)

I'm thinking that they would have been founded after the Elven Wars ended, some 1,400 years ago, which during that time, the "monsters" of the world thrived will the Great Kin warred with each other. For the most part, they did their job well, and most monsters keep to the fringes of the world, hidden in the deep corners of forests and mountains and ruins. There are less now then there were, and those that remain are mistrusted and maligned, until, of course, they are needed.

So even 1st Level adventurers are still well trained (It would make sense to have players start at maybe Level 2 or 3)and have decent equipment. I like the idea of the hardened adventurers riding into town to kick ass while being mistrusted and maligned by those who had to hire them.   

Pros of this idea: Explains how and why adventurers are so unique and why they can do things that normal people cannot - such as delve into an orc cave and emerged unscathed. Gives a darker feel to the setting and to adventurers and takes away the happy-go-lucky questing. Possible conflicts between and withing the adventuring guilds.

Cons of this idea: It obviously takes away from the pure D&D feeling and makes for an awkward situation with good-aligned adventurers.

[LordVreeg]

well, mercenary bands/guild are of great historical notice.  If you are going along the idea that the campaign seting is dark and dangerous enough that said adventuring/dirty-job guilds exist, they would alos be of great military value, so if that is the sort of tone, then I could see it.