The CBG System (discussions)

[beejazz]

Well, scores starting at zero fucks wound points up the ass, IMHO...
especially if we're doing the toughness=wp thing.

Starting at zero, with 6 points to spread among 5 scores, then the ability to buy more with the starting xp package.

Though imagine the character with no points in Toughness, and high Luck, like 4 to start.  
0 WP, 40 VP.  Interesting RP challenge.

Um... 0WP isn't a roleplaying challenge.
It's a corpse.
Negative hit points for the lose.

[snakefing]

One thing to look out for with dice pools is that probabilities don't scale very intuitively.

For example, consider a hypothetical task of difficulty 9, using d6 dice pools:

(Not sure how to do a table, so this won't be as easy to read as I'd like. The numbers in the table represent the probability of succeeding at the task with the given modifier and dice pool.)

Modifier   1 x d6   2 x d6   3 x d6
   +2        0%       0%       0%
   +3       17%      31%      43%
   +4       33%      55%      70%

Here's for a task of difficulty 20, using d20 dice pools:

Modifier   1 x d20  2 x d20  3 x d20
   +0        5%      10%     14%
   +2       15%      28%     39%
   +4       25%      44%     58%

Note that for the d6 pools, the probability for a 3-die pool jumps from 0 to 43% with just one modifier. In general, if the task is possible at all, adding a die to the pool makes a huge increase in probability.

The problem for the GM is just that tasks can jump from very hard to very easy with just small increments in modifiers or dice pool. This makes it a little trickier to adjust the difficulties of tasks to keep them balance. Not impossible, but harder.

[CYMRO]

Um... 0WP isn't a roleplaying challenge.
It's a corpse.
Negative hit points for the lose.

 :axe:

Starting at zero also allows GMs to avoid WP for adversaries if they so choose.

[snakefing]

I'm not a huge fan of dice pools, but if that's the way things are going, I'd vote d10's or maybe d20's. People are more likely to have multiple d10's (for the old d100 rolls) and they are small enough to hold multiple in your hand.

Probability increments are still too big with d10's, but at least manageable.

[CYMRO]

NATURAL 20 votes d20.
BEEJAZZ votes d6.
WITCHUNT votes d10, with a caveat toward d6.
CYMRO votes d6.
GOLEM votes d6.
SNAKEFING is split, d20 or d10.

[snakefing]

Well, scores starting at zero fucks wound points up the ass, IMHO...
especially if we're doing the toughness=wp thing.

One could provide base WP from the size and/or racial background. Toughness acts as a modifier on that. Then you can buy more (fairly expensive, at least a lot more than buying VP).

You have to be a little careful on balance here. What does it cost to improve Toughness by +1 (thereby improving WP, maybe some saves or ability checks, and anything else that depends on Toughness)? Compare vs. what it costs to buy improvements to these things individually.

But those details can be worked out when we are costing things.

Incidentally, I'd say that anything we vote on could be revisited at a later time, but only if people agree that playtesting or further developments reveal a problem.

[Hibou]

I'm d10 with a caveat towards d6. Perhaps we could actually use two different types of dice and give them specific uses. For example, if we were to use d10s and d6s, d10s could be used for attacks, skill checks, saves, etc. while d6s could be used for determining damage from everything (weapons, spells, falling great distances, and the like).

[beejazz]

People *do* understand that with dicepools, you roll a number of dice and take the highest, then add your stat, right?

You don't add together xd6 where x is your stat.

[CYMRO]

NATURAL 20 votes d20.
BEEJAZZ votes d6.
WITCHUNT votes d10, with a caveat toward d6.
CYMRO votes d6.
GOLEM votes d6.
SNAKEFING is split, d20 or d10.

So, I guess we wait for Silver's vote.

In the meantime, we have the following isues floating about:

*Point buy and starting base of stats(0 or 1).
*VP/WP mechanics.
*Point costs for actions in combat(we have a good start).

[Hibou]

Hmm... using 0 as a level in Toughness...

I'm thinking it could be used, just not to actually determine your WP. Maybe like this:

Skeletion Warrior, Standard

Str 4
RnT 2
Crdn 3
Luck 3
Tghn 0``(effective score 3)

VP 24 (temporarily changed to VP = 4*(TOUGH + LUCK)
WP 9 (temporarily changed to 3*(TOUGH)

*Continuing stat block*...
---

`` Scores of 0 cannot be possessed by mortal creatures. They are found exclusively among the walking dead, animated constructs, and certain otherworldly creatures. A score of 0 means that a creature cannot be affected by any spell or effect that damages or deals with its Toughness score in any way. Certain effects may instead damage a creature's Strength or Luck score, as listed in their descriptions.

Creatures with Toughness scores of 0 still have 'effective scores' with which they determine their Vitality Points and Wound Points.

---

That was a random example of something that might work for scores of 0. It doesn't really solve the thing of having one of 0, but I think to fix that everyone should just have at least a score of 1 in all stats.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

I know you guys are going classless, but have you thought about having any sort of archetypes or professions?  Such as, if you want to create an Archer character, you may automatically start with a certain number of skill points in the "Archery" skill, etc, etc.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Also, are you using a Feats and Talents system?  

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Another thing:
Are you guys keeping terms such as "saving throws," "wound points," "AC (armor class),"  and other classic D&D terms?  I notice in Cymro's summary that several standard terms are used.  I apologize if you've already gone over this, but I don't have the time to read 12 pages of this thread right now :)

[CYMRO]

It doesn't really solve the thing of having one of 0, but I think to fix that everyone should just have at least a score of 1 in all stats.

If a character starts with 1 in all stats, what should the point buy be?
0? 1? 3? 6?

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Is there going to be a maximum stat score?