Lexicon: Pregame Discussion

[Lmns Crn]

Some philosophies of this world to ponder...

I am good to go with whatever, although I'm not sure how much of this stuff needs to be explicitly decided here at the outset. (I assume, though, that the answer is "not much".) I'm pretty convinced that concepts like those will arise naturally as we all write our entries and riff off of each other.

[LD]

Ascension: Breakdown in relatively 'good' society and unleashing of teh 'bad' powers on the world. The archivists of the Lexicon offer up varying reasons for the ultimate fall and eventual Ascension of the evil. The society is reflected in the naming convention...they call it the Ascension instead of the Fall...they lean towards a positive or even inevitable/unchangeable outlook on things. I.e. it is what it is. Fate?

Life is hard. Death is worse. When you die thats it. No salvation or eternal glory. You pretty much suck mud and eat dirt
[/quote]
I think that is a bit limiting. IF these are scholars, I don't see why they couldn't differ on issues like this. Of the three Ideas, I am most against that one.

-
I'm more for the view of building an organic structure as LC suggested.

[Steerpike]

[blockquote=Light Dragon]I don't actually understand what you are saying here. There was a fall and now it's an ascension toward something good? Or do they think that evil ascended? It seems complicated.[/blockquote]I think the idea is that the "bad guys" won, but because the victors write the history books they term their coming-to-power an "Ancension," and the inhabitants of the world have been so beaten down that they don't consider rebellion an option, instead embracing a fatalistic sort of view, accepting their lot in life with a shrug.  While the archive entries might view the deeds of the "bad guys" with resignation - or even glorify their atrocities - an outside reader would be able to see the horror behind the layer of propaganda and complacency.  Is that the gist of it, Sarisa?

[Kaptn'Lath]

I may just through my hat in here too, kinda needing a break from Discworld and its cliche 80s fantasy troups, and dark fantasy i likey.

As far as the wiki, althought the issue seems settled, I was in the same boat as some (eewww the wiki part of the CBG, its far away and complicated) about a month ago, took me half an hour to do up my first page, and within a couple of days (with sparkles precision feedback) I had it figured out. I got two bookmarks for the CBG and wiki and open them both up now too like LC, starting to make me feel like its one site with two different member lists tho... In other words, as a someone who was just in the "Wiki? I'll pass" boat, come jump in the water! Its easier than i thought.

I like the multiple sources part the most. Maybe if some of the sources are pro-evil, some pro-good, some nostalgic neutral, and some optimistic neutral instead of generally accepting? Some call it ascension, some call it a change or new chapter, and some call it a catastrophy.

 "inhabitants of the world have been so beaten down that they don't consider rebellion an option, instead embracing a fatalistic sort of view," I cant imagine everyone feeling this way. Being beaten down to the point of non-rebellion/giving up is depression. Also anyone attached (benifited from) the old regime would want the old days back... even if there ok with the rampant sex, blood and subjecation (evil).

[Mason]

Hmm...Sorry guys I should clarify.

  The point of the Lexicon exercise is to get people to develop a scholar character, remain in that character and then make up a world as that character sees it-but keeping within the rules of scholarly honor.
 
  Steerpike, your right on with the fatalistic viewpoint assessment, albeit with clearer wording than I could have put forward.
 
   I suppose these are ideas that I'm throwing out there...Possible viewpoints for characters or the general inhabitants of the world. The other day I went to write my first article entitled "Ascension" and I realized how many things I would be cementing in the world with the first writ.
   
   Per Lightdragons view on the sucking mud and eating dirt-this is to supplement the fatalistic view that Steerpike so eloquently put it.
   
    Kaptn'Lath glad to have you on-board with this!

  The question remains for me ....how to start?

[Kaptn'Lath]

I think the "old world" (or whats still known about it anyways) and the "Event" should be a group thing. ie the first letter, make it short and too the point, but make it together.

So its looking more like a conquering than a destruction cataclysm? The big bad locked in the prision for eons finally broke free? Demons/Undead/Vampires using the mortal race(s) as food? The Gods literally fell from the sky and crashed on the world? dying gods release alot of energy you know. Some wizard in a tower finally went too far, like WAY to far? ummm any other ways for a world to end?

[LD]

[blockquote=Light Dragon]I don't actually understand what you are saying here. There was a fall and now it's an ascension toward something good? Or do they think that evil ascended? It seems complicated.[/blockquote]I think the idea is that the "bad guys" won, but because the victors write the history books they term their coming-to-power an "Ancension," and the inhabitants of the world have been so beaten down that they don't consider rebellion an option, instead embracing a fatalistic sort of view, accepting their lot in life with a shrug.  While the archive entries might view the deeds of the "bad guys" with resignation - or even glorify their atrocities - an outside reader would be able to see the horror behind the layer of propaganda and complacency.  Is that the gist of it, Sarisa?

Ok. That sounds decent-a little complicated and not exactly my ideal setting, but I think I can work with that, maybe one entry or two. Thank you(!)

[Mason]

I think the "old world" (or whats still known about it anyways) and the "Event" should be a group thing. ie the first letter, make it short and too the point, but make it together.

So its looking more like a conquering than a destruction cataclysm? The big bad locked in the prision for eons finally broke free? Demons/Undead/Vampires using the mortal race(s) as food? The Gods literally fell from the sky and crashed on the world? dying gods release alot of energy you know. Some wizard in a tower finally went too far, like WAY to far? ummm any other ways for a world to end?

  Yea pretty much...Instead look at this stuff:

[spoiler=Inspiration]
 One
 Two
 Three
 Four
 Five
 Six
 Seven
 
[/spoiler]
 


 

[Kaptn'Lath]

So basically build a standard fantasy setting, then break its spine, corrupt its soul, eat its kids, and leave it crying in a pool of its own blood and deficant?



I am in.

Lets take the "Marvel Zombies" approach. They did stuff to the marvel world fully expecting their boss would cut most of it out, saying they cant go that far. They kept all of it, and it is great. lets go ALITTLE adult.

[Kindling]

Wait, so, basically... Midnight? Lol.

I'm still not sure if I'll participate in this, but I just wanted to say, about the suggestion that no-one's really into resisting the oppression or whatever... where's the fun in that? Where will conflict and tension come from if no-one is opposing the evilly evil Evil? Even if the opponents themselves are also evil, there should surely be some opponents, no?

[Ghostman]

I would prefer that we avoid introducing definite earthly "bad guys" as the cause of the changes in the world. I'd much rather if it was treated as a metaphysical event, like the opening of Pandora's box. I like the idea of an intangible, unnamable cosmic "evil" that's been slowly flooding the world, subtly influencing everything within it, gradually strenghtening elements sympathetic to it's nature and decaying elements antithetic to it's nature. Thus eg. the rise into power of any particular tyrant of the day, would simply be a manifestation of this unseen but everywhere-reaching influence - an effect rather than the cause of the problems.

Some advantages to this approach:

* The evil is universal. It's not particular to any one culture or philosophy, and effects the entire world.
* The manifestations can take virtually any form imaginable, and thus easily mesh with any local aesthetic. You could see vampiric warlords laying waste to one land, a monstrous jungle of flesh-eating flora overgrowing another, and a madness-inducing plague sweeping across a third - and they could

all be empowered by the same faceless cataclysm.
* The effects could also be mythical in feel, such as droughts, great floods, the wombs of the women becoming barren, the sun no longer rising, or all manner of vices settling in the hearts of men.
* Making the source of the troubles cosmic can keep it beyond the means of mortals to deal with. They cannot hope to stop it any more than they could hope to make death disappear.
* The intentional vagueness of the cause leaves it open for interpretation. While astrologers and the like may be able to identify that some horrendous doom has befallen the world, they might be unable to truly explain it. Scholars from different cultures and religions would then be likely to come up with very different theories about the nature of the disaster, and whether or not there is hope for better.[/list]

It might no longer make much sense to term it as "ascension", though.

[Mason]

I would prefer that we avoid introducing definite earthly "bad guys" as the cause of the changes in the world. I'd much rather if it was treated as a metaphysical event, like the opening of Pandora's box.

Some advantages to this approach:

* The evil is universal. It's not particular to any one culture or philosophy, and effects the entire world.
* The manifestations can take virtually any form imaginable, and thus easily mesh with any local aesthetic. You could see vampiric warlords laying waste to one land, a monstrous jungle of flesh-eating flora overgrowing another, and a madness-inducing plague sweeping across a third - and they could

all be empowered by the same faceless cataclysm.
* The effects could also be mythical in feel, such as droughts, great floods, the wombs of the women becoming barren, the sun no longer rising, or all manner of vices settling in the hearts of men.
* Making the source of the troubles cosmic can keep it beyond the means of mortals to deal with. They cannot hope to stop it any more than they could hope to make death disappear.
* The intentional vagueness of the cause leaves it open for interpretation. While astrologers and the like may be able to identify that some horrendous doom has befallen the world, they might be unable to truly explain it. Scholars from different cultures and religions would then be likely to come up with very different theories about the nature of the disaster, and whether or not there is hope for better.[/list]

It might no longer make much sense to term it as "ascension", though.

   I really like these ideas Ghostman!

[Kaptn'Lath]

so things just go to shit, and no one really knows why or how... i am sure there will be lots of theories from different letters, but leaving no official reason is good. We can work more on the world after and not really need to worry why or how. And lots of variation in effects which is good with this type of project.

[Mason]

Lets start the first week this Monday guys...as a sort of 'test' run. Write some articles...try to get into a comfortable persona-we'll see how it goes.

[LD]

So...has this been started?