Japanese Weapons

[limetom]

I hope with this little thread to clear up all those persistant myths once and for all.  Firstly, I ask you to throw away everything you know about Japanese arms.  Done?  Good.  Next, I ask you to have an open mind I found most of this stuff by doing a strange and novel thing called reasearch.  I also have spoken to a modern user or two of these weapons.

Swords
Firstly, I'll go over the classification of Japanese swords.  Keep in mind that all swords are measured by their blade length, and not their whole length.

*A blade of 1

shaku (equivalent to 1 foot) or less is considered a tantÃ..., or knife.

*A blade longer than 1 shaku but less than 2 is considered a shÃ...tÃ..., or short sword.  Both the two-handed wakizashi and the one-handed kodachi are included in this category.

*A blade longer than 2 shaku is considered a daitÃ..., or long sword.  Both the katana and tachi are included in this category.  Both are wielded two-handed.  The slightly shorter katana is worn with the cutting edge up, while the slightly longer tachi is worn with the blade down.

*A blade longer than 3 shaku is called an Ã...dachi or nodachi, or great sword.  These kinds of swords were extremely rare.  The Ã...dachi was wielded two-handed and was worn across the back.[/list]

TantÃ...
The tantÃ... was the weapon used durring seppuku (ritual suicide).  The tantÃ... was a popular weapon off of the battlefield.

ShÃ...tÃ... - Wakizashi and Kodachi
Contrary to popular belief the wakizashi was always wielded with two-hands, like the katana.  Samurai wore the wakizashi at all times.

Contrary to popular belief, the kodachi was not used for defense.  It was wielded with one-hand.

DaitÃ... - Katana and Tachi
The katana was only lethal against unarmored opponents.  It is a myth that it was any better than any other sword.  Samurai wore the katana as often as custom allowed (for example, they had to remove it when entering someone else's home.)

The tachi is an archaic sword, slightly longer than the katana, but its design was abandoned by the 16th century in favor of the katana.

Ã...Å'dachi/Nodachi
The Ã...dachi and the nodachi are very rare swords.  Most were used in rituals or as decorative items.  The few that were used in combat were used as anti-cavalry weapons.

Techniques
Using a katana and a wakizashi together is a technique that was almost never used. In fact, Miyamoto Musashi, who is often credited with creating this style, used two bokken (wooden practice swords) instead of a katana and a wakizashi.

Almost all Japanese swords were backswords, meaning that the cutting edge is only on one side of the sword. This limits the kinds of strikes a samurai could perform, and, more importantly, their overall speed.

Samurai did not block with the edge of their swords. This would damage the blade, which would be wasteful due to the limited amount of iron found in Japan.  One could block with the side of the blade, or, especially with a backsword like a katana, with the thicker back of the blade.

Samurai much perfered the bow, and were skilled horseback archers.

Samurai did not fight with an inflated sense of honor. If they did, techniques such as iaijutsu (drawing the sword and striking in one motion), would be impossible to perform. Samurai were skilled warriors and fought to win. Their sense of honor is as overstated in modern times as a knight's sense of chivalry. Furthermore, most ninja were samurai. Ninjutsu is mainly a modern reinterpretation.

Other Weapons
Contrary to popular belief, samurai used many weapons other than their swords.

The yumi was a Japanese composite longbow.  It was generally not as strong as the European composite longbow.  Samurai were adept horseback archers, and often relied more upon their bows than their swords.

Around the 8th century, the naginata, a polearm, was imported from China.  It was eventually replaced on the battlefield by the yari.  Around the 17th century, the naginata became almost completely religated to the women of the samurai caste.  A naginata has reach.  You can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you canâ,¬,,¢t use it against an adjacent foe.

The yari are Japanese spears.  Short yari are called tai yari, while longer yari are called omi no yari.  Tai yari were used by samurai, while omi no yari were used by conscripts.

[table=Japanese Weapons][tr][th]Weapon (type)[/th][th]Cost[/th][th]Dmg (S)[/th][th]Dmg (M)[/th][th]Critical[/th][th]Range Increment[/th][th]Weight[/th][th]Type[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]TantÃ... (light simple)[/td][td]2 gp[/td][td]1d3[/td][td]1d4[/td][td]19-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]1 lb.[/td][td]Piercing or slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wakizashi (light martial)[/td][td]10 gp[/td][td]1d4[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]19-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]2 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kodachi (light martial)[/td][td]10 gp[/td][td]1d4[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]19-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]2 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Katana (two-handed martial)[/td][td]15 gp[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]1d8[/td][td]18-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]3 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tachi (two-handed martial)[/td][td]15 gp[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]1d8[/td][td]18-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]4 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ã...Å'dachi/Nodachi (two-handed martial)[/td][td]50 gp[/td][td]1d10[/td][td]2d6[/td][td]19-20/x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]8 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Naginata (two-handed martial)[/td][td]8 gp[/td][td]1d8[/td][td]1d10[/td][td]x3[/td][td]-[/td][td]10 lb.[/td][td]Slashing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tai Yari (one-handed simple)[/td][td]1 gp[/td][td]1d4[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]x2[/td][td]-[/td][td]3 lb.[/td][td]Piercing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Omi no Yari (two-handed simple)[/td][td]2 gp[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]1d8[/td][td]x3[/td][td]-[/td][td]9 lb.[/td][td]Piercing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Yumi (ranged martial)[/td][td]75 gp[/td][td]1d4[/td][td]1d6[/td][td]x3[/td][td]70 ft.[/td][td]2 lb.[/td][td]Piercing[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shuriken (5) (ranged simple)[/td][td]1 gp[/td][td]1[/td][td]1d3[/td][td]x3[/td][td]10 ft.[/td][td]1/2 lb.[/td][td]Piercing[/td][/tr][/table]

The above designations are good for any campaign.  Restricting the katana to being an exotic weapon, but not the scimitar, is just a silly idea.  Anyone who can use a scimitar can use a katana just as easily.

I hope this clears up the misinformation.

[Soup Nazi]

Was there some ongoing katana debate over here that I missed or something?

Anyway, as a second person to have researched just this same topic (though I always thought it was the wakizashi that was used for seppuku, and never bothered to look into it further), I concur that the stats presented are perfectly reasonable, fair, and balanced for game play.

I would use them without hesitation were I to run an oriental campaign, though I do prefer to use the smaller die / greater threat range (18-20) for curved-slicing blades in general (if for nothing more than consistency with the other curved blades of D&D, like the scimitar).

Nice work

-Nasty-

[Xeviat]

While your research is to be commended, these weapons are not balanced by virtue of d20 standards. Here are my complaints, and how they can be fixed:

Tanto: It is weaker than the heavy mace, short spear, and even the club (all of these are one-handed simple weapons). Since a tanto is shorter than a foot, it is a light weapon.

Wakisashi and Kodachi: The differences you are mentioning are too small to matter in the system. Heck, even you statted them identically. Since they are the same size as a shortsword, two feet in length, they should be martial light weapons.

Katana and Tachi: You state that these weapons were wielded in two hands, yet you stat them as one-handed martials. The reason D&D stats the Katana as a bastard sword is because it is a hand and a half sword. While tradition (martial weapon proficiency) has the weapons wielded in two hands, certain individuals could use it in one (exotic weapon proficiency). You could leave them as they are, and just leave them as martial one-handers, but then you're going to find rare individuals who actually wield it in two hands instead of one.

Your Omi no Yari stats are fine, but your Tai Yari stats are weak for a one-handed simple (again, compare to the heavy mace and the short spear). Was the Tai Yari wielded in one hand anyway?

[SA]

'Sbout time someone cleared that up.  A lot of players have this freakishly romanticised view about samurai and their various knives, which is a pain in the rear for those of us who DM historic campaigns.

Good show.

And I couldn't give a rats nuts about the stats, 'cos I ain't never usin' no Dee n' Dee rules ever 'gin, but I shall forever hold the fluff close to my heart, like cotton candy in the aorta.

[Soup Nazi]

No Xev! NOOOOOOOOO! we cannot have one of these debates here too.

[Elven Doritos]

No Xev! NOOOOOOOOO! we cannot have one of these debates here too.

We can, actually.

Just remember, guys, to keep it both civil and, hopefully, founded in logic.

~ElDo

[SA]

Logic?  Logic???  We're debating the very essence of samurai swordiness!  What place have we for logic when we have fanboy fanaticism???

And, uh... what exactly is the subject of the heretofore uninitiated debate?

[Elven Doritos]

Logic?  Logic???  We're debating the very essence of samurai swordiness!  What place have we for logic when we have fanboy fanaticism???

And, uh... what exactly is the subject of the heretofore uninitiated debate?

I believe the subject is directed towards historical weaponry, such as Limetom painstakingly put together, and fantacised weaponry, such as that found in most gaming products. The latter is often downright ignorant of cultural historicity, but then again, core D&D mixes the actual advancements of Middle Ages society and lumps them together.

So it's sort of a vicious circle.

[SA]

Ah, yeah...

Well I suppose that from that perspective, for classic D&D purposes, the romanticised katana works perfectly fine.  I mean, how much reality is there in D&D anyway?  And how much do we actually WANT?

[Soup Nazi]

Logic?  Logic???  We're debating the very essence of samurai swordiness!  What place have we for logic when we have fanboy fanaticism???

And, uh... what exactly is the subject of the heretofore uninitiated debate?

I have never seen a katana wielding spamurai vs. bastard sword wielding knight of spam discussion fail to degenerate into flaming showers of spamorites. If Xev and Limetom manage to discuss the matter like civil human beings more power to them, but others will inevitably interject their opinons, and from there...well I can post a few links if you really want them.

Personally, I feel the weapons presented will not break the game, and therefore they are fine by me. Fanboyism is not my forte however, and I do not have strong feelings about the subject, so it matters not to me. I just sense the encroaching flame war (my spider-sense is tingling), and wanted to ward it off before hand.

-Peace and Love-

[SA]

Aww.  I was looking forward to a flame war...

And I'd be pretty darned surprised if any discussion, no matter how illogical, actually degenerated into outright flaming.

Where most people would throw around infantile homophobic vindictives, the CBG weapon of choice seems to be bizarrely articulate non sequiturs...

I swear, sometimes our conversations are the most intelligent kind of stupid.

-Ham and Toast-

[brainface]

I have never seen a katana wielding spamurai vs. bastard sword wielding knight of spam discussion fail to degenerate into flaming showers of spamorites

seen[/i] a katana wielding spamurai vs. bastard sword wielding knight of spam discussion.

Re: the historical accuracy, have you checked the weights? I seem to remember dnd getting the weights about 50% too high for its european weapons if you're going off those. (I've of course no interest in looking this up myself.)

[SA]

Well, if fantasy fiction is anything to go by, half the time swords weigh in excess of ten pounds, or some other preposterous amount.

[SA]

I recall one of my players with Str 30 using a "buster sword" that weighed a good 20 pounds.

[beejazz]

Odachi *drools*
Wildly impractical...
Big, heavy sword...
Kill horses...
Cavalry...
(Horses are friggin' CREEPY though...)