Kahtar Discussion Thread

[Wensleydale]

The Discussion Thread - please post all comments and suggestions here.

The thread itself can be found here : http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?15338.0#post_15483

[Elven Doritos]

I am loathe to delete any feedback you have from the other thread, so I'll migrate all the data by hand (we don't have a move post feature).

First, general feedback:

No chance at some point of adding elements of Kalara to your grand setting is there? I always loved the architecture of the Kalara cosmos. I suppose its going to be a big job integrating what you've got already, but on the upside at least you've got plenty to work with.

I really like the magic system that you have developed. Reminds me of Mage: Ascension in a way with it being so adaptable to a given situation.

For clarification, are their already established weaves that the caster prepares or are they free to come up with whatever they can think of or a combination of both?[/quote]
Ah, didn't say PrC so I wasn't sure. That makes sense then. Overall I think they are fine though a thought on the MP's. Should it be a set rate per level or more flexible like HP's? It would seem to me that some people would have a more natural channel for MP than others (those with a natural flare for it). Those this could be reflected in like a feat that says you get more than the predetermined amount it would seem easiest to have, for example, the MP's based off of say Intelligence plus a d6 (for example) would give a decent range of MP's to start off with and grow with.[/quote]

[Elven Doritos]

REVIEWS:

it still has the ancient Wild Magic, a source required by the Kahtar for their many powerful inventions and spells.[/blockquote]
From the name alone, you know immediately this will be Celtic influenced, and it doesn't disappoint. The only problem I found with this section is the quoted reference to Kahtar magic, which seems a bit out of context. Perhaps this is explained elsewhere, but it kind seems to come out of nowhere here.
[blockquote=Amala-Kahtar]it was abandoned after the Amenta Wells that once provided a great source of magic dried up there.[/blockquote]
Again, this reference to the Amenta Wells seems to be somewhat unrelated. And how does this relate to Aelwyd? Are there Amenta Wells there too (perhaps under a different name)?
[blockquote=Itala]Although a small nation, Itala sits right on top of a damaged Amenta Rift, a gate to the Spirit Realm through which magic passes. However, the Bleakness has bent this rift horribly - meaning that magic is a corrupted, painful thing. Thus, Italai fear it, and hunt mages down with a venom.[/blockquote]
Is it that magic is painful to the mage? Or that it somehow harms those around it? It seems that if it is painful to the mage, that might change who pursues it. Other than that, I don't see why the common folk would fear it, at least not directly.

Overall, I think these sections would benefit if there were an introductory section that explained the concepts behind Amenta, magic exhaustion, whatever else you've got going on. I say this knowing a lot of this is covered elsewhere, but as I haven't read any of your other settings, it is a bit mysterious to me. This would all make a bit more sense if the section on Magic in Kahtar came first, along with probably a quite gloss on the Kahtar Empire. Just a suggestion for organization, really, not on content.

One other thing I'm struck by is the lack of discussion of divine magic. At least in the parts I've read so far. Does this work by the same principles and same limitations? Or is there a different approach?

I'll be back this weekend sometime when I have time to examine your weaves and classes.

Magic Weaves
Generally I like the approach. There are only two areas, somewhat related, that make me a little uncertain.

First, the limitations on the effects that can be achieved with various types of weaves are quite vague. The example you give of using a Water weave to rust out iron in seconds seems somewhat counterintuitive and powerful to me. As a player of GM in this system, it makes me uncertain what a given character can do, which seems certain to lead to disagreements and misunderstandings.

Second, the system as presented seems incomplete. What are the base damages, ranges, allowed augments, etc? No doubt much of this is either covered elsewhere or undecided yet. Clarifying these things might help the first point.


Changeling Race
This is an interesting race. It seems to me to be intended as an NPC race, because those shapeshifting abilities are pretty nice. Still, first thing you know someone's going to ask, "Can I play one?" So you need to consider that, even if the answer will always be no.

The other thing I'd like to see is a little more on how they are viewed by the different cultures they encounter. After all, a creature that can change its appearance is bound to generate distrust. Do they trade with others? Are they hunted or lynched?

Divine Magic
There's no need to have divine magic in a setting. I can deal with that. Does that mean that there's really not a Cleric-like class per se? Seems reasonable. Will healing be rare, or are there arcane casters that can do this?

Do priestly castes usually have magical abilities? Do they often control the secrets and knowledge of magic? Inquiring minds want to know.

More importantly, in many of the cultures it seems the priests will be quite powerful - so by extension they must have PC classes. If there's no actual class for priests, then what class will they have? This may vary by culture or religion, so it should be noted in the desription for the culture or religion.  

[/quote]
Well, the reason I keep asking about priests is that, if their abilities aren't significantly different from those of standard casters, then what pull do they have to gain prestige and followers in their culture?

There's many options here. Typically religions promise something of the ability to control your life in this world, or some kind of afterworld benefits, or both. Historically, a lot of early religions were more in the former category - sacrifice to the gods and they may spare you from disease, or send the rains you need, or the like. Others, like Egyptian religions, were highly focused on the afterworld - providing for a safe and happy passage to the afterlife, and so on.

My thinking is just that if there is clearly existing magic to do the former (control and manipulate this world) then religions would either have to compete with that, or be more focused on more invisible, spiritual stuff.

For example, if a religion had a monopoly on magical knowledge, then they could tie their religious beliefs to the teaching of the secrets of magic. "Only the magic of our church springs from holy sources. Other magic is unholy and dangerous, and taints your eternal soul."

Or, alternatively, that crass materialistic magic may be viewed as useful but irrelevant to the religious mission of the church. In this case priests might not even be very powerful from the standpoint of magic or combat, but they could still be quite influential in the realm of politics.

I'm sure there are many other possibilities.

Most likely every culture will have their own approach to the relationship between magic and religion. It's just that standard D&D themes like to treat the priestly characters as being magically powerful. Your approach is different from that, which is probably what leads to a little confusion on my part.[/quote]

[Wensleydale]

Okay! Check out the updates - stuff about weapons etc is in.

[SDragon]

okay, first thing first: i absolutely love what youve done with the languages. the speak language DCs actually make the skill useful! i assume, of course, the checks only apply to languages gained through ranks in speak language... or is there something im missing?

the idea of multiple pantheons, for various cultural religions is something i have always felt missing from a lot of settings, and you seem to have handled it fairly well. as has been mentioned already, there is a bit of a patchwork feel to Kahtar, and i think this is where it starts; aside from the fact theyre all in the same setting, is there any common thread between the cultures? if so, have you thought about making it slightly more apparent?

aelwyd, so far, is my favorite culture; very nicely done celtic flavor. that said, using the name samhain is a tad uninspired; adjustments might help. try something like sawhaghn, or sumhane. alterations are what ultimately make a setting inspired by a culture, as opposed to being the culture itself; renaming lughmass, and putting it in the springttime (as opposed to autumn) is a good example of that.

all in all, great setting. i hope to have the chance to look it over even better, and i hope to see more sometime soon :)

[Wensleydale]

The Speak Language skill: Yes. You automatically pass those that you gained as automatic or bonus languages at level 1.


Thankyou.

It IS patchwork, I admit - and... what exactly do you mean by a common thread? I presume you mean how they connect to one another - this will become more apparent once I go into detail about them :)

[SDragon]

The Speak Language skill: Yes. You automatically pass those that you gained as automatic or bonus languages at level 1.

Thankyou.[/quote]It IS patchwork, I admit - and... what exactly do you mean by a common thread? I presume you mean how they connect to one another - this will become more apparent once I go into detail about them :)
[/quote]
 i cant wait to see how it pulls together.

by the way, if you ever need help with names or phrases, feel free to PM me.

[Jürgen Hubert]

OK, here are some first thoughts:

Kahtar has several advantages over some other settings - its sheer size and diversity being one of them.

Show[/i], not tell." Many worlds are diverse, and many of them are very large, but that, in itself, are not neccessarily positive traits, since those can also easily mean that the setting is "sketchily detailed and incoherent". As Terry Pratchett would say, "We embrace Diversity" means exactly nothing.   ;)

Find something that binds the setting together and makes it into a coherent whole for your tagline.


Aelwyd, the Western Land

It has one great quality that the Aequii need, however - it still has the ancient Wild Magic, a source required by the Aequii for their many powerful inventions and spells.

Numidi, the Desert Dreaming[/b]

The People settled on the Ashaya plain, and became fishermen.

But the Aequii are failing. Its armies have been withdrawn for many years, Numidi has governed itself.[/quote]Mhithad, the Northern Frost[/b]

The splendid and decadent human lands of Odeid, led by the immortal Hag Empress, spread across most of Mhithad like an encompassing cloak.

"Decadent" implies to me that there is a significant number of people who don't have to catch or grow their own food. So the question is: Where does their food come from? Cold climates don't tend to naturally have lots of available food, so there is probably magic involved - but what kind of magic precisely?


Oh, and could you perhaps give us a map with slightly higher resolution? Some names are quite hard to read...

[Wrexham3]

Excellant work, Golem.  I love the changelings and their affinity to the sea, absolutely inspired (I might incorporate this idea in my campaign for dopplegangers and changelings, if that's okay).  I also like your orcs - I went along a similar track with my orcs, giving them the abilities to reflect their racial origins as pack predators.  Having a flexible magic system which allows you to cast spontaneous and prepared spells is also a great idea.  

PS sorry for posting in your main thread - I didnt realise you had a discussion thread.

[Wensleydale]

OK, here are some first thoughts:

Kahtar has several advantages over some other settings - its sheer size and diversity being one of them.

About as big as Europe + Western Asia + Northern Africa. Basically the Roman area...

Aelwyd, the Western Land

It has one great quality that the Aequii need, however - it still has the ancient Wild Magic, a source required by the Aequii for their many powerful inventions and spells.

How does Wild Magic actually work? If you read some more of the thread, you'll see - Amenta Rifts allow magic through into the world, and Aelwyd has so much of this it's scary. The Aequii need it - and if you look, most of Europa is under Aequii control - they ain't as powerful as they were, but they're still the MOST powerful.

Numidi, the Desert Dreaming

The People settled on the Ashaya plain, and became fishermen.

If ye could see the closeup map, you'd understand - the Ashaya Plain is coastal.

But the Aequii are failing. Its armies have been withdrawn for many years, Numidi has governed itself.

The Numidi Caliphate. If you read some more of the thread, there's a bit more detail. But not all that much - yet.

Mhithad, the Northern Frost

The splendid and decadent human lands of Odeid, led by the immortal Hag Empress, spread across most of Mhithad like an encompassing cloak.

In the central lands of the Hag Queen, it is warm - due to her magic, mostly. It is decadent here, but as you go further outward - cold.

Oh, and could you perhaps give us a map with slightly higher resolution? Some names are quite hard to read...

It can be... How should I do it? I'm using Mr. Snappy and Autorealm...

[CYMRO]

1. Nice clean map. Nice reversal of the boot... :D

2. Are tradespeakers feline in aspect or was that just a description of the eye?
[picknit]
3. Druid table. level 15 "weaves prepared" 5? Not 15?[/nitpick]

4.  I think I asked before, but are the Sorcerer and the Druid the only casting classes?

[Wensleydale]

1. Thankyou. ;) I'm doing trade versions and detail maps of the nations at present.

2. Just the eye. NO CATPEOPLE! :P

3. Hmm... could be.

4. The only 'base classes', although they can't be taken from first level (they have prereqs). There are several PrCs that grant limited casting ability, including the Ihueli Wardancer (not just restricted to elfborn, since their empire is long gone) and Dragonspeaker.

[CYMRO]

Cats and sand, man.  Isn't that what deserts are all about?

[Wensleydale]

Sadly, no... :P

[CYMRO]

My thoughts on the Empire:

Background needs a little more fleshing out.  More detail on the present political set-up.  Marcus must have rivals we need to know about.

What were the circumstances and consequences of the introduction of steel?  Since you mention it often, you should tell us why it is so important an event in the world.  Does the empire have a monopoly on steel production?