Cad Goleór Discussion Thread

[Ghostman]

Bronze: Weapons forged of bronze are the baseline, most common sort one is likely to find.  Though not as durable or powerful as iron, bronze weapons hold their own.  Bronze weapons suffer a -1 penalty to attack and damage.

If they are the baseline items, they shouldn't get a penalty. Better to add a bonus for those rare iron weapons instead.

Torc: This is an elaborate neck-ring that denotes authority.  Gold torcs are only worn by kings, but silver or copper ones are sometimes gifted to heroes, or those who hold some lesser authority position.   Wearing a torc grants a +8 circumstance bonus to disguise checks made to imitate an authority figure, and a +2 circumstance bonus to all diplomacy checks.

Should clarify whether the disguise bonus is for imitating a particular character, or simply for trying to pass as some bigwig-from-another-land-you've-never-met. Frankly the former case wouldn't make much sense.

[Humabout]

Bronze: Weapons forged of bronze are the baseline, most common sort one is likely to find.  Though not as durable or powerful as iron, bronze weapons hold their own.  Bronze weapons suffer a -1 penalty to attack and damage.  It has a hardness of 9, and 20 hit points per inch of thickness.  Bronze weapons cost the usual amount in gold pieces or in equivalent trade goods as those in the Core Rulebook.

Iron: Iron is the most powerful metal most people are familiar with.  Most castes will not have access to this metal, as its quality is seen to be fitting only of the Fliath Warrior Elite. They suffer no penalties to attack or damage.  Furthermore, Iron overcomes the damage reduction of fae, fomorians, and several other creatures.  Iron weapons have a hardness of 10 and 30 hit points per inch of thickness.  Iron Weapons cost twice as much as those listed in the Core Rulebook.

I've not had the chance to read the entire thread, but this caught my eye.  It's a commonly-held falasy that bronze is worse than iron.  In fact, bronze is generally superior to most forms of iron found throughout the middle ages and is about equal to most steel (~90% iron, so it shouldn't really be in a different category anyway) produced before the 1700s.  The primary advantage of iron is that it is FAR cheaper than bronze owing to the rarity of tin.  It is only in modern times when hardening techniques for steel became advanced enough for steel to really outshine bronze based solely on performance.  That said, I'd generally not give iron any benefit over bronze, except in cost (probably around a quarter the cost of the bronze counterpart).  This, of course, excludes any supernatural properties of the metals (frex, in Elirya, iron is anathema to magic, harms faeries, and cannot be enchanted; while faeries can and often do sport bronze armor and weapons, and most magic items are bronze [since it is superior to the enxt-best alternative - copper]).

[Seraph]

Should clarify whether the disguise bonus is for imitating a particular character, or simply for trying to pass as some bigwig-from-another-land-you've-never-met. Frankly the former case wouldn't make much sense.

No, I meant more the latter.  It sells being an important figure that the person you're talking to doesn't know.  Some known person from elsewhere, or else some made-up official.  I will specify that in the writeup.

I've not had the chance to read the entire thread, but this caught my eye.  It's a commonly-held falasy that bronze is worse than iron.  In fact, bronze is generally superior to most forms of iron found throughout the middle ages and is about equal to most steel (~90% iron, so it shouldn't really be in a different category anyway) produced before the 1700s.  The primary advantage of iron is that it is FAR cheaper than bronze owing to the rarity of tin.  It is only in modern times when hardening techniques for steel became advanced enough for steel to really outshine bronze based solely on performance.  That said, I'd generally not give iron any benefit over bronze, except in cost (probably around a quarter the cost of the bronze counterpart).  This, of course, excludes any supernatural properties of the metals (frex, in Elirya, iron is anathema to magic, harms faeries, and cannot be enchanted; while faeries can and often do sport bronze armor and weapons, and most magic items are bronze [since it is superior to the enxt-best alternative - copper]).

Interesting!  The "Iron is superior" thing seems to be everywhere, so I didn't bother looking into it.  I think I've even seen something to that effect on the History Channel at some point.  But now that you bring this up, when I look at comparisons, for everything besides holding an edge (and perhaps weight) bronze does appear superior.  Harder to work with, which should actually in itself add to the prestige if it is actually forged bronze instead of just cast bronze.  It looks like most of the tin came from elsewhere, and trade difficulties made it hard to come by, so Iron's predominance came out of necessity, not out of advantage.  So I might have to rethink some things.

Perhaps Iron actually should be more prevalent, with Bronze being more prestigious, instead of the other way around.  This would also make more sense in terms of fae, gods, and the Otherworld, where Iron is prohibited.  If the bulk of the weapons in the "human world" are not allowed in the Otherworld, it might actually help to sell the idea of that world being somewhat alien.  It also makes sense, considering that all (or almost all) of the magic weapons would be bronze artifacts, since the art of making magic weapons is all but lost.  Interesting that changing things from how I was thinking about them before makes other things make MORE sense.  Thanks, Humabout.

[Ghostman]

You left a couple of references to adamantine in the materials writeup, FYI.

[Seraph]

You left a couple of references to adamantine in the materials writeup, FYI.

Shoot!  Thanks for pointing it out.  I always seem to do that when I am stealing snippets.....

[Seraph]

A new map, done in a few hours, of Thiodonn, a kingdom in the Southeast of Glasconai.


[spoiler=Big Map][/spoiler]

I wasn't sure if it needed its own thread, since I think this is more or less the final product.

[Ghostman]

Nice map! One thing I'd change about it would be to tone down those pure white labels a bit. They jump out in a stark contrast to the rest of the picture.

[Seraph]

Here is an updated version of the image, playing with some different brushes for the castles, more variety in the trees, fading the edges, and with some recolored text (also faded somewhat) instead of white.


[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

[Ghostman]

Looking much better now.

[Humabout]

Stunning map!  I love it with the darker text. Will respond more when time permits (prolly tomorrow).

[sparkletwist]

I actually preferred the brighter text.
Contrast on a map is good.

[Humabout]

Interesting! The "Iron is superior" thing seems to be everywhere, so I didn't bother looking into it.  I think I've even seen something to that effect on the History Channel at some point.  But now that you bring this up, when I look at comparisons, for everything besides holding an edge (and perhaps weight) bronze does appear superior.  Harder to work with, which should actually in itself add to the prestige if it is actually forged bronze instead of just cast bronze.  It looks like most of the tin came from elsewhere, and trade difficulties made it hard to come by, so Iron's predominance came out of necessity, not out of advantage.  So I might have to rethink some things.

For what it's worth, the weight differenve between iron/steel and bronze is negligible in tools/armor.  The only real difference, besides having to reforge bronze edges if they get damaged, is the price (thank you tin scarcity!).

Perhaps Iron actually should be more prevalent, with Bronze being more prestigious, instead of the other way around.  This would also make more sense in terms of fae, gods, and the Otherworld, where Iron is prohibited.  If the bulk of the weapons in the "human world" are not allowed in the Otherworld, it might actually help to sell the idea of that world being somewhat alien.  It also makes sense, considering that all (or almost all) of the magic weapons would be bronze artifacts, since the art of making magic weapons is all but lost.  Interesting that changing things from how I was thinking about them before makes other things make MORE sense.  Thanks, Humabout.

Glad I could help!  Here's another question, though:  Why don't the gods/fae/etc. allow iron/steel weapons into their planes?

I actually preferred the brighter text.
Contrast on a map is good.

I know what you mean, and there is more contrast with the white text.  However, I think the darker text suits the feel of the map, visually.  Contrast could be enhanced by removing the various symbols behind the blackish text, so that it appears against only the light brown of the map, if need be.  Just a thought; don't know how much trouble i'd be.

[sparkletwist]

I know what you mean, and there is more contrast with the white text.  However, I think the darker text suits the feel of the map, visually.  Contrast could be enhanced by removing the various symbols behind the blackish text, so that it appears against only the light brown of the map, if need be.  Just a thought; don't know how much trouble i'd be.

I think the light text is just as suited. It might look better if it's a light tan and not pure white, admittedly.
A concrete (i.e., not based on personal aesthetics) advantage to the light text is that nothing has to be removed from the background to make it work.

[Seraph]

Perhaps Iron actually should be more prevalent, with Bronze being more prestigious, instead of the other way around.  This would also make more sense in terms of fae, gods, and the Otherworld, where Iron is prohibited.  If the bulk of the weapons in the "human world" are not allowed in the Otherworld, it might actually help to sell the idea of that world being somewhat alien.  It also makes sense, considering that all (or almost all) of the magic weapons would be bronze artifacts, since the art of making magic weapons is all but lost.  Interesting that changing things from how I was thinking about them before makes other things make MORE sense.  Thanks, Humabout.

Glad I could help!  Here's another question, though:  Why don't the gods/fae/etc. allow iron/steel weapons into their planes?

It is harmful to them.  Its qualities counteract their magic, and Cold iron is even worse, as they suffer injury from as much as touching it.  You could think of them as being "allergic" to it. 

There is nothing to prevent iron from passing into Annwn (The Otherworld), but it is so hated by its denizens that even bringing it with you proves intent to harm them.  If they find you with it, you will be labeled an enemy, and fairly quickly both courts of sidhe might well be bearing down on you to drive you out, kill you, or otherwise neutralize the threat.  The Seelie Court might give you the chance to surrender though, instead of just killing you outright.

[Humabout]

It is harmful to them.  Its qualities counteract their magic, and Cold iron is even worse, as they suffer injury from as much as touching it.  You could think of them as being "allergic" to it. 

So here's the million-dollar question:  What the heck is "cold iron"?

I think the light text is just as suited. It might look better if it's a light tan and not pure white, admittedly.
A concrete (i.e., not based on personal aesthetics) advantage to the light text is that nothing has to be removed from the background to make it work.

Two excellent points.  The asthetic appeal of the dark text was that it looked more natural to the map.  The pure white was too out of place.  A light tan would probably satisfy both of our qualms.

(Pssst....Sparkle.  Did you see?  I think we agree on something!  Woohoo!)