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There and Back Again [Official Hobbit Movie Discussion Thread]

Started by Elemental_Elf, June 01, 2011, 01:21:56 PM

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SA

#30
June 07, 2011, 09:24:56 PM
Quotethe world of LotR won't be ruined by Midi-chlorians or anything
was[/i]???

Nomadic

#31
June 07, 2011, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: Name-Changing Angel
Quotethe world of LotR won't be ruined by Midi-chlorians or anything
was[/i]???

Peter Jackson is no Spielberg, but he's also not Lucas. I feel fairly safe trusting him with something I grew up with (unlike Micheal Bay). Was LotR as good as the books? That's arguable but I'm leaning towards no. Was it bad? Heck no, it was top notch.

SA

#32
June 08, 2011, 12:03:01 AM
I'm taking the piss of course. Peter Jackson loves the Tolkien mythos too much to mess with it like that.

And Michael bay? What did he screw up?

Xathan

#33
June 08, 2011, 12:10:25 AM
I'm looking forward to it. Peter Jackson did a great job with LOTR (in my opinion, at least), and The Hobbit is something that inherently lends itself better to screen adaptation (again, in my opinion.) Still, I'm kind of nervous - The Hobbit was one of the things that got me into fantasy literature, far more than LOTR did, so I'm much more emotionally invested in it than I was in the LOTR movies.

Still, Angel's point is well taken - Jackson seems to love the mythos, and he's probably the only director I'd really trust with it. So I'm crossing my fingers and waiting a year and a half, hoping for validation.
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Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

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Xathan's forum posts at http://www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2011, J.A. Raizman.
[/spoiler]

SA

#34
June 08, 2011, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: MyselfAnd Michael bay? What did he screw up?
Other than ruining my innocent youthful love of explosions and reckless mayhem...

Elemental_Elf

#35
June 08, 2011, 01:12:52 AM
Quote from: Name-Changing Angel
Quote from: Nomadic
Quote from: Name-Changing Angel
Quote from: Renaissance Angel
Quote from: MyselfAnd Michael bay? What did he screw up?

Michael Bay didn't ruin your childhood - Shia LaBeouf did. Heck he ruined Transformers and then he ruined Indiana Jones!

SA

#36
June 08, 2011, 01:19:53 AM
Ohh, we're talking about transformers.

I was thinking of his obsessive fetishisation of on-screen chaos to the point of unintelligibility (which is in itself simply too long a word)...

Nomadic

#37
June 08, 2011, 01:32:16 AM
Quote from: Elemental_ElfHonestly, I think the LotR Trilogy was the best book-to-film adaptation we will ever get. Was everything that was in the books in the films? No and honestly it shouldn't be. The books take a long time to read and people's attention spans wouldn't last for a 9 hour movie (heck, people were groaning at the length of the theatrical release). I honestly believe Jackson did a great job, far better than others did with the Harry Potter adaptations.

The only way LotR could have been better is if it was made into a show, like Game of Thrones... But shows lend themselves to inaccuracies more than movies so it would be a give-and-take.

Don't get me wrong, I think Jackson did a beautiful job with LotR. I'm a sucker for the books though so I doubt any director could make a movie that I thought was better than the book version.

Elemental_Elf

#38
June 08, 2011, 01:39:44 AM
Quote from: Nomadic
Quote from: Nomadic
Quote from: Elemental_ElfHonestly, I think the LotR Trilogy was the best book-to-film adaptation we will ever get. Was everything that was in the books in the films? No and honestly it shouldn't be. The books take a long time to read and people's attention spans wouldn't last for a 9 hour movie (heck, people were groaning at the length of the theatrical release). I honestly believe Jackson did a great job, far better than others did with the Harry Potter adaptations.

The only way LotR could have been better is if it was made into a show, like Game of Thrones... But shows lend themselves to inaccuracies more than movies so it would be a give-and-take.

The Books are always better. :)

Xathan

#39
June 08, 2011, 01:47:31 AM
Quote from: Elemental_ElfThe Books are always better. :)


I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this...but I'm not a huge fan of the LOTR books. They're worth reading once and by no means bad...but I didn't and don't have any desire to re-read them. On the other hand, I've watched the movies a few dozen times each.
AnIndex of My Work

Quote from: Sparkletwist
It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane
Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito
[spoiler=SRD AND OGC AND LEGAL JUNK]UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERS
Appendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.
1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.
2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.
3. Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.
4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
5. Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.
6. Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.
7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.
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15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri Zagidulin
System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Mutants and Masterminds Second Edition Copyright 2005, Green Ronin Publishing; Steve Kenson
Fate (Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment) Copyright 2003 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue and Fred Hicks.
Spirit of the Century Copyright 2006 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue, Fred Hicks, and Leonard Balsera
Xathan's forum posts at http://www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2011, J.A. Raizman.
[/spoiler]

SA

#40
June 08, 2011, 01:52:11 AM
I'm with Xathan.

Also: Eragon.

Although what "better" means in the context of the writing of Christopher Paolini...

Elemental_Elf

#41
June 08, 2011, 01:52:23 AM
Quote from: Xathan Of Many Worlds
Quote from: Elemental_ElfThe Books are always better. :)


I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this...but I'm not a huge fan of the LOTR books. They're worth reading once and by no means bad...but I didn't and don't have any desire to re-read them. On the other hand, I've watched the movies a few dozen times each.

I think the way Tolkein writes to a modern reader is often seen as too slow and too descriptive. Modern readers don't need as much description because we have vicariously encountered far more than readers in Tolkein's time ever imagined (through TV, film and the internet). Modern readers want faster information flow because that's how we live our lives - fast isn't fast enough. Obviously, your reasoning could be different but I've found most people who enjoy but do not love the books with the same vigor that they love the movies with is often due to the above.

Plus, let's all be honest here, Film is far more easily consumable than a book. Books take a long time to read, Films only take 3 and a half hours.

Quote from: Renaissance AngelI'm with Xathan.

Also: Eragon.

Although what "better" means in the context of the writing of Christopher Paolini...

Eragon is one of my favorite movies. I laugh so hard every time I watch it!

Xathan

#42
June 08, 2011, 01:57:45 AM
Quote from: Elemental_ElfI think the way Tolkein writes to a modern reader is often seen as too slow and too descriptive. Modern readers don't need as much description because we have vicariously encountered far more than readers in Tolkein's time ever imagined (through TV, film and the internet). Modern readers want faster information flow because that's how we live our lives - fast isn't fast enough. Obviously, your reasoning could be different but I've found most people who enjoy but do not love the books with the same vigor that they love the movies with is often due to the above.

Plus, let's all be honest here, Film is far more easily consumable than a book. Books take a long time to read, Films only take 3 and a half hours.

Which may be true in the general case, but I read 3-4 books a month at minimum and read the entire Wheel of Time series and loved it (and you want to talk about overly descriptive books...) :P It's not about speed, it's about pacing and making sure you describe the right things. I love detail, it makes a book come alive...but Tolkien felt very dry to me. And it was one of the first fantasy stories I read, so it's not that I was already steeped in the tropes - only things I read fantasy wise prior to LOTR were Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Hobbit.
AnIndex of My Work

Quote from: Sparkletwist
It's llitul and the brain, llitul and the brain, one is a genius and the other's insane
Proud Receiver of a Golden Dorito
[spoiler=SRD AND OGC AND LEGAL JUNK]UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED IN THE POST, NONE OF THE ABOVE CONTENT IS CONSIDERED OGC, EXCEPT FOR MATERIALS ALREADY MADE OGC BY PRIOR PUBLISHERS
Appendix I: Open Game License Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.
1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.
2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.
3. Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.
4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.
5. Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.
6. Notice of License Copyright: You must update the COPYRIGHT NOTICE portion of this License to include the exact text of the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any Open Game Content You are copying, modifying or distributing, and You must add the title, the copyright date, and the copyright holder's name to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE of any original Open Game Content you Distribute.
7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.
8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.
9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.
10 Copy of this License: You MUST include a copy of this License with every copy of the Open Game Content You Distribute.
11. Use of Contributor Credits: You may not market or advertise the Open Game Content using the name of any Contributor unless You have written permission from the Contributor to do so.
12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.
13 Termination: This License will terminate automatically if You fail to comply with all terms herein and fail to cure such breach within 30 days of becoming aware of the breach. All sublicenses shall survive the termination of this License.
14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.
15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Fudge 10th Anniversary Edition Copyright 2005, Grey Ghost Press, Inc.; Authors Steffan O'Sullivan and Ann Dupuis, with additional material by Jonathan Benn, Peter Bonney, Deird'Re Brooks, Reimer Behrends, Don Bisdorf, Carl Cravens, Shawn Garbett, Steven Hammond, Ed Heil, Bernard Hsiung, J.M. "Thijs" Krijger, Sedge Lewis, Shawn Lockard, Gordon McCormick, Kent Matthewson, Peter Mikelsons, Robb Neumann, Anthony Roberson, Andy Skinner, William Stoddard, Stephan Szabo, John Ughrin, Alex Weldon, Duke York, Dmitri Zagidulin
System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Mutants and Masterminds Second Edition Copyright 2005, Green Ronin Publishing; Steve Kenson
Fate (Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment) Copyright 2003 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue and Fred Hicks.
Spirit of the Century Copyright 2006 by Evil Hat Productions, LLC. Authors Robert Donoghue, Fred Hicks, and Leonard Balsera
Xathan's forum posts at http://www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2011, J.A. Raizman.
[/spoiler]

SA

#43
June 08, 2011, 02:03:53 AM
So what he's saying is he likes Tolkien, but he doesn't like Tolkien.

Quote from: an ElfEragon is one of my favorite movies. I laugh so hard every time I watch it!
Beats the hell out of the D&D movie.

I didn't laugh at that one.

I cried...

Elemental_Elf

#44
June 08, 2011, 01:25:44 PM
Quote from: An Angel
Quote from: an ElfEragon is one of my favorite movies. I laugh so hard every time I watch it!

I think we all cried. That movie was terrible.

The latest D&D movie, featuring a Black Dragon, was actually pretty good, if a bit low budget-y.
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