Olam, or the Antediluvian Age - ideas, sketches and questions

[Kalontas]

I seem to have a problem with Naplia. If you look it up on my "table" up there which lists races per land, you will find it has a lot of standard fantasy species and their hybrids. The conclusion you would get from that is that is was meant to be a "generic fantasy land" of Olam, but as I started clarifying what I really want from my setting, I found that I don't like it being there at all. Of course, you can still say I can describe in details the tons of other, more important lands, and just give it a short paragraph like most distant lands... but it just doesn't fit there. To the north is Galleaga, the celtic/norse elven lands, to the east is Hellade, one of the most important points of the setting, and somewhat further west (but still close by) is Kenaan, the other most important part. It just feels so... odd there. Its geographical position would make it a vague lift off real world's Italy... but not only this world doesn't need Rome, the plain lifts right off real world are just boring. Also, it's right in the middle of the geographical belt I decided to be the focus of the cultural descriptions.

So my question to you now: what to do with Naplia? I have completely no idea for it right now, and any help would be appreciated.

[O Senhor Leetz]

I'm a bit confused as to what you're aiming for here. You mention that the world is very new with an Iron Age influence, but you're bringing in many things, that at least to me, seem to counter this theme, like bringing in real world influences from far later in history - Turks and Arabs for example - and the fact that there seems to be lots of unified and stable kingdoms and empires. But the earth is new idea is good and not commonly used. We're used to seeing old, ancient worlds with lots of history, but not too many settings have the earth being wet from birth still.

What about taking the Tolkien-esque fantasy you kinda have going here, but turning back the clocks on the "standard DnD". Elves are savage and wild, humans are far from united, the dwarves have just started to discover steel, etc, and mix your real world influences with a bit of cave-man and backwardsness, almost pre-Greek.

I think a short, very descriptive paragraph that describes Olam in concise terms would be helpful to all, as I, at least, am a bit lost trying to wrap my head around this setting.

Hope none of this was too negative!

[Kalontas]

I'm a bit confused as to what you're aiming for here. You mention that the world is very new with an Iron Age influence, but you're bringing in many things, that at least to me, seem to counter this theme, like bringing in real world influences from far later in history - Turks and Arabs for example - and the fact that there seems to be lots of unified and stable kingdoms and empires. But the earth is new idea is good and not commonly used. We're used to seeing old, ancient worlds with lots of history, but not too many settings have the earth being wet from birth still.

Because maybe my early Iron Age is not as early as it may have sounded... I'm imagining that since the Original War have passed around 800 years - which is enough for the then created kingdoms to consolidate enough to have a culture and art, but not enough to have big empires. The technological level is mainly based on Iron Age, with few oddities based on the influence of magic and gods (like gnomes who try dabbling in steam technology).
How should I say it... it's Iron Age, if Iron Age had meddling gods and magic that allowed travel and communication from Carribean to Japan. And there's Atlantis.

On cultural basis, the inspiration is very wide. Nephilim are Phoenician mixed with Baroque europe (and a bit of enlightment with their atheism, or rather "self-theism"), Helladians are Greeks of Iron Age (so rather think Athens and Sparta than Mycenae), and the Khitan Hobgoblins are Turko-Mongolian, because I imagined that kind of culture might be cool to see mingling with "ancient Greece" on one side and "Ming China" on the other. So the actual cultures presented are mainly allowed in based on Rule of Cool.

What about taking the Tolkien-esque fantasy you kinda have going here, but turning back the clocks on the "standard DnD". Elves are savage and wild, humans are far from united, the dwarves have just started to discover steel, etc, and mix your real world influences with a bit of cave-man and backwardsness, almost pre-Greek.

That's certainly an idea I'm entertaining. There are only few areas that have somewhat developed countries - most of it is still tribal (but it's barely mentioned so far because it's on the outskirts of the budding civilisation).

I think a short, very descriptive paragraph that describes Olam in concise terms would be helpful to all, as I, at least, am a bit lost trying to wrap my head around this setting.

Well, it seems then that this failed at its purpose. I was thinking of rewriting things like those anyway.

Hope none of this was too negative!

Not at all. It's the first time I'm trying to do something like this, and I welcome any clues about what I might be doing wrong.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Just a thought here, but I've found, maybe because of personal tastes, that creating a fantasy world based on real-world sources is extremely difficult to pull together once you expand past a couple real-world influences. This may seem strange coming from the guy who's working on Arga, being extremely Hellenicly (is that a word?) influenced, but then again I'm just using one, more or less, influence to tie everything together. Everything is vaguely Greek.

I guess what I am getting at is what is the single theme or influence that ties your whole setting together? Either a real-world influence, as in my case, or a central theme that brings everything together. Using multiple real-world influences will be much easier, and mesh much better, if you have that theme or tone you´re looking for.

Once again, hope this isn't too negative! I do like what you have here, despite my seemingly deconstructive remarks!

[Kalontas]

All the multiple influences are there because of two reasons.
1) I like mixing together totally unrelated stuff, just to see how it would pan out. Like, haven't you ever thought what would happen if Leonidas fought Suleyman the Great? Or, what would have happened if ancient China was torn between a country ruled by an evil dragon and Taiping Rebellion? So as a result, Olam has those tons of anachronistic stuff from all over the place, just for the coolness of it.
2) Because I find plain lifts right out real world cultures rather boring. While ancient Greece or Israel or China are interesting in themselves, fantasy worlds are meant to be fantasy - different, weird, unique. Thus, I mix up as much as I can, while still keeping it recognisable. (Or at least I try to)

My general theme is as I keep repeating: a young, mostly wild world which is just starting to develop its first countries and empires, world still full of magic and gods. And besides this all, a world that feels like you could actually live there without dying every year. And finally: a crazy place where anything is possible.

And again, not too negative at all. I welcome any suggestions. I might not listen to all of them (because of some main principles behind this), but I welcome everything.

[Superfluous Crow]

Do you still want Naplia to be civilized or would it be better off as a wilderness? Do you even need it? If it doesn't serve any function in your setting (and you haven't drawn up extensive maps!) you could just remove the continent and focus your energy on the important sites.
I'll try and give some more detailed advice after this initial inquiry!

[Kalontas]

Do you still want Naplia to be civilized or would it be better off as a wilderness? Do you even need it? If it doesn't serve any function in your setting (and you haven't drawn up extensive maps!) you could just remove the continent and focus your energy on the important sites.
I'll try and give some more detailed advice after this initial inquiry!

I have honestly no clue what to do with Naplia. It's just that on my map (which is admittedly barely a concept coastline sketch with names on it) it's sitting right in the middle, between certain important places. I guess I can just remove to get rid of the problem, but I feel like I should do something with it before just writing it off.

[O Senhor Leetz]

All the multiple influences are there because of two reasons.
1) I like mixing together totally unrelated stuff, just to see how it would pan out. Like, haven't you ever thought what would happen if Leonidas fought Suleyman the Great? Or, what would have happened if ancient China was torn between a country ruled by an evil dragon and Taiping Rebellion? So as a result, Olam has those tons of anachronistic stuff from all over the place, just for the coolness of it.
2) Because I find plain lifts right out real world cultures rather boring. While ancient Greece or Israel or China are interesting in themselves, fantasy worlds are meant to be fantasy - different, weird, unique. Thus, I mix up as much as I can, while still keeping it recognisable. (Or at least I try to)

Haha ok ok, I think my problem with this is that I studied history in university so things like that are really not my thing, but this is YOUR setting, not mine, so I'll try my best!

One more thing, if civilization is new and young, I don't think empires are the way to go. Lots of little kingdoms, clans, and tribes seems like it would make more sense.

[Kalontas]

One more thing, if civilization is new and young, I don't think empires are the way to go. Lots of little kingdoms, clans, and tribes seems like it would make more sense.

Of course, most empires are called that just because of titles. The closest thing to an actual empire is the Nephilim dominion of Kenaani - and that's mostly because it's slightly older than anything else (having formed before the Original War), and because the Nephilim's thirst for knowledge calls them out to explore everything and thus expand their influence. (And out of universe, because they're meant to be the hubristic, vain Atlantis)

[Superfluous Crow]

There seems to be two good approaches to handling Naplia, seeing as you mention it's more or less directly between your important locales:
A) Naplia is home to merchant-cities and market towns where wares are exchanged and supplies replenished on the long trip across the world. A loose league of city-states - squabbling but safe.
B) Naplia is home to all the men and creatures who'd rather see your hard-earned merchandise in their own cargo hull, yet don't want to pay for it. Basically, Naplia is a lawless place, home to smugglers, fugitives and lots and lots of pirates. The few cities exist mostly for the pirates to spend their coin in and are full of whorehouses and cheap entertainment. (think Tortuga)  

EDIT: When I say pirates, it doesn't have to be of the rum-swilling and eyepatch-wearing variety - I am certain you could easily craft a special breed of Olamian pirates to fit your setting if you go with option B.

[Kalontas]

The kind of 'Merchant League' certainly seems an interesting prospect. I'm imagining now three/four cities founded by the Helladian colonists, which are starting to band together to protect their own interests. Think early Magna Graecia. And at the same time, some pirates from Mbuktan may still hide in the unexplored coves on the island.

[O Senhor Leetz]

how big of a world are we talking about? large oceans and large continents? based in the north, south, the whole range of climates? it seems like a larger-than-earth world would work best with the scope and difference in all your races and civs.

[Kalontas]

I think it's comparably... large? It's kinda hard to compare it to, say, Earth, because it's flat. But given the places I was basing the specific elements on, I'm gonna say it's similar in scale to about... half of Earth. The continents and islands you may recognise on my current map (if you could see it) would be both Americas, Greenland, Europe, half of Asia and Africa. It may seem bigger than it is, because it's pretty densely seeded with all kinds of races.
The strip of land I'm concentrating on (from Jinto in the east to Ultramar in the west) has mostly meditarranean climates, but you can find whatever you want - deserts, jungles, tundras etc. Here climates depend on the proximity of the sun during its daily course - so Veissan is freezing not because of being on the pole, but because sun never shines on it properly.

[O Senhor Leetz]

hows is magic going to be dealt with in this setting?

[Kalontas]

I don't know if I mentioned this here (and in posts scattered around the boards, where I touched on the subject of Olam), but it's meant to be generally high on magic. As in, magic is common, powerful and its existence is widely known. Just as any other's setting's commoner may know to repair his table or how to trap a bear, on Olam a commoner may know some flashy cantrip or some basic spell that may be useful in the home (for example, some quick summoning of a... uh... beer can?) Because of it's commonality, some people may not know the difference between magic and technology, or indeed mix both. Powerful spellcasters are as rare and strong as educated engineers.

Regarding schools of magic, etc., I'm borrowing the basic system from D&D - so arcane for your typical wizards, divine for believer types, primal for shamans etc., psionic for monks and "mind mages" and finally shadow for the less favorably seen individuals.