Terra Macabre Discussion-Culture and Creatures

[Xathan]

@Steerpike:

As far as Roman/Byzantine Empire goes, I think I understand now. Thanks for clearing up that confusion on my part, I was rather befuddled as to how that worked.

As for consolidation...I've decided that the Great Old Ones decided to preserve existing nations for their own reasons. Maybe the found the concept amusing, maybe they found it simplified matters, maybe it was to reduce risk of rebellion, or maybe something far more inscrutable and sinister. Regardless, I'm keeping boundaries as they were in the 1300's, though there were some changes since the GOO's arrival - but that's mainly in colonial areas, not directly in Western Europe.

Fun fact - apparently a portion of the main continent was actually controlled by Britain at this time. I'm deciding right now that Angelica managed to hold on to that, just because that'd be a great area for intrigue.

@Guest - so, to make sure I understand you right, there really isn't any major human nation with defined boundaries in the Americas at this time - in other words, it's a great point for mutated creatures to arise and the Lesser Old Ones to gain a foothold?

[Xathan]

In a lot of instances it would seem to me to make more sense for the Great Old Ones to devise new territories instead of trying to preserve existing ones.  And surely in the various wars fought over the last few centuries after the G.O.O.s showed up borders will have changed a lot.  Basically it would make sense to invent new countries/territories as needed instead of trying to track down every possible country that was around in 1300.  If the HRE and the UK got unified it makes sense for a lot of other disparate places to get unified too, when it's worth the effort to do so.  Just random thoughts.

I've given this some more thought now that I'm sober, and here's the way I'm working it:

In areas where there Great Old Ones settled (Mostly Western Europe, the various Mongol lands, Russia, India, and a few spots in North Africa, Eastern Europe, and the Arabian peninsula), similar but disparate groups were unified. For everywhere else, Lesser Old Ones took over the smaller nations and didn't have the needed power to consolidate more. And there were changes from war to various areas within Western Europe, but not so much that it's caused nations to be consumed or vanish - rather, just changes in borders here and there. The real conflicts that change borders are colonial ones, either land stolen from a Lesser Old One or ones that were colonies of one nation being conquered by another. Hope that makes more sense. :)



On an unrelated note, my dreams were full of weird last night, maybe from working on this setting: but I've pictures of alien landscapes running through my mind, fields of arms and hands growing from the ground, trees with eyes that weep sap, a desert full of shells that hide tentacled monsters. Not sure if these nightmare landscapes are something I want to work in, but figured I'd put them down and see what people thought.

[Steerpike]

Here's a funny, small question: does the Divine Comedy (written 1308-1321) get written?  In general, do the Powers that Be exercise much censorship of literary works and the like?

...fields of arms and hands growing from the ground...

I sort of have these in the Cadaverous Earth :P.  Fleshtrees and body-farms and the nightmarish Meatgardens.

[Xathan]

Huh. I'll have to consider that...really, what I need to do more than any thing else is determine the exact year the Old Ones arrive. If it was prior to 1308, then it probably didn't get written - while they aren't so much on censorship after 500 years of rule, they clamped down much harder at first, and even if the Divine Comedy wouldn't have caused a problem (since it was more a social commentary than religious text), I don't know if Dante would have been willing to risk it - or if he was, it would have been different, since the social landscape was so drastically changed because, y'know, Eldritch Horrors from beyond Time and Space and all that. If they arrived after 1321, then yeah, history was going as it did in reality, so they got written.

[Steerpike]

Cool.  Another thing I was wondering about: did the invaders extinguish every royal line in Europe?  Or do some of the great families perpetuate themselves underground, their heirs growing up in secret?  Were any of the monarchs co-opted by the invaders as Servitors?  Because having the Black Prince or Vlad the Impaler as Servitors/Misbegotten would be awesome, even if they'd be dead by the present day.

[Xathan]

Few of the royal lines were actually extinguished - why waste something valuable like that unless it was a danger? While some did flee into secrecy and now either live underground or have fled to Atlantis, others became Servitors at at least one royal line bowed peacefully, keeping their family name but loosing their throne. And I'm doing this partially because of what you mentioned - Vlad the Impaler earned his name even more honestly in Terra Macabre - and partially because I'm trying to figure out where to fit historical figures into this world, and don't want to cut off avenues by killing off royalty...yet. :P

[Steerpike]

Alright, cool.  Some questions about DaVincepunk and science/technology now:

- Are there any primitive (or less than primitive) mechanical computers, akin to the Analytic/Difference Engine, the Antikythera Mechanism, the Differential Analyser, etcetera?
- Are there advanced automatons?
- Are there Da Vinci tanks and helicopters?
- What are firearms like?  Repeating pepperbox wheellocks?  What's artillery like?
- Clockwork phonographs?
- What's the state of knowledge surrounding hydraulics, pneumatics, electricity, and steam-power?
- Is there a germ theory of disease, or does the miasma theory dominate?
- Do the common people understand that the Great Old Ones came from outer space?
- Do people believe in evolution?  Now that the traditional religions have been thrown out, one would assume creationism has likewise been chucked, but in the real world the taxonomic record isn't complete enough in the early 1700s to really allow evolutionary theories to develop properly.  Are theories of spontaneous generation in play?
- Is alchemy practiced in any form?
- Submarines?
- Trains of some kind?

[Steampunk Knight]

Ok I'm still doing more research, but here is what I have so far

How close are you sticking to the Mythos?
Have you decided on what you are keeping and what you are excluding?
How are you handling the size issue the GOO's? Last time I checked Cthulhu was massive. Then again they are powerful beings, so this might be a moot issue.



Cthlhu
Will he have a domain on the main continents or will he use R'lyeh? Now my suggestion is that R'lyeh is Cthlhu's capital and since it is so close to Antarctica, makes it his nation. He would use his power to draw his followers to him and to change the continent, or at least part of it into a habitable land so they can survive there.

Now if you use this idea or something like it could pave the way to being back some other parts of the mythos that take place on the continent like the Elder Things.

Nyarlathotep
I see him controlling Egypt or maybe the entire Middle East. He definitely would have converted the society back to they way it was in the Egyptian Old Kingdom period. Installing himself as pharaoh and worshiped as a god-king. I can see towering statues and monuments praising his name.

There is also precedence for him having cults throughout the world. If you look at this Wikipedia page there are like 19 other guises he has. He could be actively working of expanding his domain, destabilizing others, or just as an act of pure chaos.

Great Race of Yith
The Great Race of Yith mastered time travel and were very powerful psychics. Who, when their species was threatened with extinction, transferred their minds to the race that will follow the human race. Now you could say that some of the race transferred their minds to humans in an attempt to taken control of them. It would make a nice hidden faction perusing they own goals that may or may not in concert with the GOO.

Since they also have access to time travel they have would have knowledge of the future, they could know something that is going to happen and try to prevent/cause it. Or if you want them to be a known factor they could act as oracles who offer glimpses of the future in exchange for a horrid price.

I still have more reading to do, I'll have more questions later.

[Steerpike]

Nyarlathotep and Cthulhu are both pretty minor deities, though - Antarctica might work for Cthulhu, but I doubt Nyarlathotep would get a major kingdom.  But I get the feeling Xathan isn't sticking to the Mythos precisely but rather heavily drawing inspiration from it.

[Steampunk Knight]

Nyarlathotep and Cthulhu are both pretty minor deities, though - Antarctica might work for Cthulhu, but I doubt Nyarlathotep would get a major kingdom.  But I get the feeling Xathan isn't sticking to the Mythos precisely but rather heavily drawing inspiration from it.

ah, there must be a hierarchy I am missing.

[Xathan]

Alright, cool.  Some questions about DaVincepunk and science/technology now:

- Are there any primitive (or less than primitive) mechanical computers, akin to the Analytic/Difference Engine, the Antikythera Mechanism, the Differential Analyser, etcetera?

Yes, but I'm still deciding on how advanced they should be as far as what they can do. Where they do exist, however, they are most certainly massive structures, needing an entire room to house the processing part of the computer,  much like the computers of old. Once I've done some more research and decided what would fit the setting best, I'll have more details here. One thing I am certain of: there is no internet.

- Are there advanced automatons?

In the sense of clockwork androids? No. Unless I drastically change my mind, there is nothing even close to approaching artificial intelligence developed by humans, and the Old Ones create new life forms, so the intelligence is hardly artificial.

- Are there Da Vinci tanks and helicopters?

Yes and absolutely. I need to do some more research on his designs, but something very similar to both of those will exist now - though they will appear much more archaic.

- What are firearms like?  Repeating pepperbox wheellocks?  What's artillery like?

I'm going with the repeating wheel locks for the more advanced weaponry, though single shots still exist. Artillery closely resembles cannons, though a repeating reloader has been added to allow the cannons to shoot several shots in rapid succession. In addition, there are primitive versions of gatling guns as an option, but those are typically similar in size and weight to cannons and therefore have to be used much like them - and they're a very, very new invention.

- Clockwork phonographs?

Yes. Heck, that's something that's easy enough that I'm kind of surprised it didn't exist in reality. :P

- What's the state of knowledge surrounding hydraulics, pneumatics, electricity, and steam-power?

The answer's going to seem a bit of a cop out, but it's the best I have: enough to make the technology work. Lights are still done by lanterns, there are no steam-powered trains, and there's no electrical grid - it would be possible for someone transplated from the real world 1700's to Terra Macabre to not notice anything was different for a couple hours, at least.

- Is there a germ theory of disease, or does the miasma theory dominate?

Germ theory was developed, thanks to some more advanced microscopes, and that's part of why medicine is more advanced than it was in reality.

- Do the common people understand that the Great Old Ones came from outer space?

Yes. Well, that they came from the stars, which is very similar but slightly different. I'm actually considering merging my Aetherial Void with this project, which would drastically change the answer but open whole new possibilities, so what I'll say for now is that people do know that the GOO's are Extraterrestrial in origin, and that there are other inhabitable planets in the universe.

- Do people believe in evolution?  Now that the traditional religions have been thrown out, one would assume creationism has likewise been chucked, but in the real world the taxonomic record isn't complete enough in the early 1700s to really allow evolutionary theories to develop properly.  Are theories of spontaneous generation in play?

I'm glad you mentioned spontaneous generation - when the GOO's arrived, hundreds, if not thousands, of new life-forms suddenly appeared - in reality mutated versions of existing plants and animals, but as far as it seemed to people spontaneous creations in response to the GOO's arrival. As such, it's questionable if the people of Terra Macabre will ever understand evolution, but even if they do, it won't be until the late 1900's early 2000's that sufficient data exists to contradict spontaneous evolution, since existing history makes spontaneous generation seem completely plausible and backed by empiracle data.

- Is alchemy practiced in any form?

Yes, though there's nothing mystical about it - it's chemistry, just with a different name because people don't fully understand it. It's fairly advanced for the time, but lacks much of the underlying knowledge it would need to be truely considered chemistry.

- Submarines?

Yes, because that would be awesome, especially given the new sea-fairing beasties out there. Hell, one of the GOO's took over the Mederterrainian and drug a bunch of humanity down into it, twisting them into aquatic creatures and establishing an underwater nation.

- Trains of some kind?

I haven't decided on this one yet - I'll have to consider how much it'll impact the overall setting and history to decide. If so, they're very new.

[Xathan]

Ok I'm still doing more research, but here is what I have so far

How close are you sticking to the Mythos?

My original plan was to stick as closely as possible to it an only add new things when needed. However, yesterday I re-read The Dunwich Horror and Call of Cthutulu, and realized that Lovecraft's Great Old Ones would have never, ever allowed humanity to live in the relative peace they have, either deliberately or accidentally driving the entire race completely mad and likely twisting their forms as well. As such, I'm stepping further away from the mythos and using it more for inspiration than directly stealing from it.

Have you decided on what you are keeping and what you are excluding?

Not as such yet, but as a general rule the more powerful it is the less likely I'll include it - however, I'm probably going to have to re-read all of Lovecraft (Yaaay!) to fully make that determination. Big C is out, as is Yog-Sothoth, but that's still fluid.

How are you handling the size issue the GOO's? Last time I checked Cthulhu was massive. Then again they are powerful beings, so this might be a moot issue.

Cthulhu was described as being literally MILES tall. I've decided the GOO's have the power to alter their shape and form to some degree, so are able to become significantly smaller to accommodate human interactions.

Cthlhu
Will he have a domain on the main continents or will he use R'lyeh? Now my suggestion is that R'lyeh is Cthlhu's capital and since it is so close to Antarctica, makes it his nation. He would use his power to draw his followers to him and to change the continent, or at least part of it into a habitable land so they can survive there.

Unfortunately as of now I'm leaving Cthulhu out - especially since there is so much baggage attached to that character. If I decide to leave him in, I'd likely use R'leyh as a sort of "neutral ground" for the GOO's, and I do love the idea of them terraforming Antartica - if Cthulhu himself doesn't do it, another GOO or group of LOOs will, because that's too awesome not to happen.

Now if you use this idea or something like it could pave the way to being back some other parts of the mythos that take place on the continent like the Elder Things.

An excellent point. In fact, Antartica could become the point where other races visit the new domain of the GOOs...hmmm...you've given me some awesome ideas here.

Nyarlathotep
I see him controlling Egypt or maybe the entire Middle East. He definitely would have converted the society back to they way it was in the Egyptian Old Kingdom period. Installing himself as pharaoh and worshiped as a god-king. I can see towering statues and monuments praising his name.

I'll admit to not remembering him all that well, but from what I remember he'd definitely be in charge of Egypt if I include him - however, most of the middle east has been assigned to the domains of various Lesser Old Ones, rather than being dominated by any singular Old One.

Great Race of Yith
The Great Race of Yith mastered time travel and were very powerful psychics. Who, when their species was threatened with extinction, transferred their minds to the race that will follow the human race. Now you could say that some of the race transferred their minds to humans in an attempt to taken control of them. It would make a nice hidden faction perusing they own goals that may or may not in concert with the GOO.

...even if I don't use Yith themselves, that idea is too awesome to not use, a third faction with their own agendas not native to this time. Tons of possibilities there - thanks for the idea!

BTW, sorry if it seemed like I cut out huge portions of your post, I did read them...but responding on the iPad is very hard. XD

[Steampunk Knight]

BTW, sorry if it seemed like I cut out huge portions of your post, I did read them...but responding on the iPad is very hard. XD

Hey, I'm just glad that my suggestions are helping you out. 

[Xathan]

Everyone's who has commented on this thread has been a huge help. I'm gonna try and get a working writeup tomorrow, right now going through old settings looking for stuff I can mine for this one. :P

[Xathan]

Okay, some older settings I'm thinking about cannibalizing to incorporate into Terra Macabre, along with summaries for those settings if you don't feel like reading entire threads:

Datrick, the Void Above The primary element I'm thinking about stealing from this setting is the idea of the Lowlands, vast, underground caverns that are a combination of the Underdark and Journey to the Center of the Earth. I can see these either emerging as part of the Earth Spirit's attempt to undermine the Great Old Ones, an effect of the reality warping powers of the GOOs, or the deliberate creation of either them or some other, yet unnamed power. Perhaps they've always been there, but the paths to them just now opened, and they house old temples of Elder Things and nightmare landscapes and creatures - but the hidden lore in those sunken temples may hold the key to driving the Great Old Ones form Earth - or cementing their power.

That, and the Mirrored Paths. While I'm planning on revising them to make them less cyberpunky, the basic concept (a combination of Robert Jordan's The Ways and Cyberspace, using mirrors as doors) still fits this world. It adds a bit more magic, but at the same time is creepy and alien enough of an alternate dimension to fit, as well as adding an additional adventure path players can take - or areas where horrors can attack them through. And since it's not the classic "Blasty" magic that I'm trying to avoid here, I see them fitting pretty well.

Life in the Aether Essentially, this would be a vehicle that would allow for Renaissance-era space exploration without having to advance the technology too much. (The basic concept of the Aether is that space is breathable and doesn't contain nearly as much nasty cosmic radiation, not to mention the planets are closer together and easier to access) Again, opens new adventure paths, plus opens up the entire solar system (at least) for the homes of creatures like the Mi-Go that seek to inhabit the Earth - not to mention colonial battles for a verdant moon, and DaVinci-Tech Space Stations. My only problem here is the same problem I always have when I open Space as an option - it can make too large and feel overwhelming. But if I "lovecraftian" them a bit more, I can see them being an awesome element - thoughts here are greatly appreciated, because I'm on the fence here.

Anyway, those are my three main ideas I'm thinking of Cannibalizing here - what say you all?