The Republic Reborn

[Stargate525]

[ic=Private to DiFontaine]
Although our policies were at loggerheads in regards to taxation, I do look forward to supporting you in the future when a tax is more appropriate. You are a good man for Rome and I look forward to working with you on our areas of common interest. The more dialogue we have in the future I think, the closer we can grow together. I invite you to one of my get-togethers, if you would like to join. There will be wine, song and singing inebriated women.

Also,  I too believe that Rome should expand its influence. There may be another way to enter Tre Fontaine without blood. I think there is much to discuss this possibility, if you would like.
[/ic]

[ic=Reply to Manzinni, from Bernardo]
I admit I am disappointed at your lack of such support when the elections were being held. Still, who am I to overlook the offer of drunken reveling?

As I said in the consul chambers, I would do anything in my power to enter Tre Fontaine as a pilgrim and friend rather than at the head of an army. I will leave that to Fortis for the time being. I believe the key to that lies in the Abbot. Perhaps we should continue this at your home?[/ic]

[Polycarp]

OOC - Since Gregariopolis is controlled-by/allied-with Papal forces, is to safe to assume the Eternal City now has no port town of its own?

This is basically true.  The Tiber is not very navigable; small and shallow-keeled ships can probably make it up to Rome, but usually only do so to transport wealthy pilgrims.  Others simply disembark at the river mouth.  I have allowed "orders" consisting of a single ship going here and there because Rome is not totally cut off from the sea, but it has no actual commercial port capable of handling a serious amount of maritime traffic.  In other words, if you need to send a ship to pick something up at Naples, you can do that, but forget about being part of Mediterranean trade without possessing a real port.  Currently the only "real port" in Latium is Civitavecchia.

Speaking of which, I banged out this trade map.  It sort of sucks and is not to be taken as comprehensive, but maybe it will be of some small use.

[spoiler=Trade Map][/spoiler]

[Magnus Pym]

[ic=Private letter to Fortis Calafatus]

Signore Calafatus, I congratulate you on your well deserved victory in this autumn's election. I could not see anyone else better suited than you to excel in this position. I hope that your leadership and wisdom will bring good fortune, and more to the Republic of Rome.

That being said, I would like to make a request, if I may. I would like to see your diplomatic talents, rather than military ones, to acquire us new allies and trade agreements. The Eternal City is in dire shape and another confrontation shortly after the victory of Tivoli might not be so wise a move. I implore you to show patience towards our enemies and ensure that they do not march upon us.

Again, congratulations on your nomination as Consul, and may God grant you a healthy, long life.

Sincerely,
Senator Hugo de Vinti[/ic]

[ic=Private letter to Roberto Basile]

Signore Basile, I would like to congratulate you on your nomination as Consul. I find myself on par with many of your ideals and feel that you can do much good for the Republic of Rome.

On another note, I want you to know that I will stand fully by your side in the matter of defense of Rome. I will also be contributing generously to the coffers allotted to this effect. Having said this, I'll start by contributing {denomination equaling 1 Wealth} to said fund for the recruit, arming and training of an armed force.

If I can permit myself a request; I wish that you use your powers of diplomacy and persuasion to make sure this force stays at home this year. Our republic still houses dissidents, and such pests should be rid of before attempting to expand our territory. Also, we should use this time to the betterment of not only our fortifications and constructions, but the training of our military so that when time arises for us to make real use of it, it crushes any obstacle in its way.

Again, congratulations on your nomination as Consul.

Glory to Rome![/ic]

[ic=Private Letter to Senator Domenico DeRosa]
Signore DeRosa,

Of course I have at heart the defense and well being of Rome. It is as you said; "we must defend that which we have built, lest we be conquered by the wolves that surround us." Rest assured that on such matter I will make my voice heard on the Senate floor and even in the Lesser Council.

I am grateful to you for saving me much time and trouble, if there is any way I can make it up to you, I would be overjoyed. So please do not hesitate to let me know if the need for assistance arises.

Yours truly,
Senator Hugo de Vinti[/ic]

OOC - I have updated my OOC Actions on p.6

[LD]

[ic=Reply to Bernardo from Manzinni]
I am glad to see you at my home. Let us make the appointment for on the morrow night.
(later at the home, packing back a prodigious amount of booze.)
I agree that negotiations are best, and I agree that our Consul of the Exterior, Fortis, is the proper person to manage the negotiations. I believe the key to a safe entrance is that the Monks feel safety- that they will not be destroyed by Arnold of Bresica or forced to divest themselves of all their wealth. They may also fear retribution from their Cardinal if they permit us purchase.

I have spoken with Arnold and he does not counsel putting the Monks to the sword--he does not enjoy their great wealth, but if their wealth can be used to help the people, it seems he will likewise tone his rhetoric towards the Holy Monks--they can have wealth to manage their lands, but ostentation can be denied.

I believe we can negotiate an agreement where they donate some of their wealth to the people of Rome, for construction of an Aqueduct- the one that is planned for the city--and that Aqueduct can serve both the Lateran City and the People's City. The gift should endear them to the people and in turn we will leave them in peace and be allowed to travel to and from their alley as they wont- as they are allowed to keep some of their wealth and to be left unmolested by Arnold.

I intend to suggest this to Fortis, but since it was your plan and desire to enter Tre Fontaine as a pilgrim, I thought it best to discuss this non-violent solution with you first-as the one most invested in the issue- the option you support will have great weight-it will have even greater weight if Fortis or I bring it up in the Senate and you second it as an initial salvo with which to approach our opponents. Do you have additional thoughts?[/ic]

[LD]

[IC=Private to Fortis]
Fortis, I have a matter of business to bring before you.

The King of Sicily, Roger the II has offered me, his cousin-in-law a deal that you as exterior minister should know. He has offered to provide protection for Rome's ships on the high seas if Rome can provide him a resource of which he does not already have an abundance.

With his protection, our ships could safely deliver food and weapons shipments to Rome even if we are hemmed in by enemies. We could also develop our trade to strengthen the city and to restore Rome's glory.

What say you to his proposal? I am of the opinion that Rome should take the agreement if we can provide a valued resource, since we are hemmed in by rivals and we can restore our wealth through trade.[/ic]

Thanks Polycarp! That will be useful. A more focused map with some of our neighbors and deposits would be most useful since we are a bit limited in how far ranging we can be unless we want to succumb to Pisan Pirates- but that map there is very good for generalities.

[Polycarp]

Thanks Polycarp! That will be useful. A more focused map with some of our neighbors and deposits would be most useful since we are a bit limited in how far ranging we can be unless we want to succumb to Pisan Pirates- but that map there is very good for generalities.

I'll think about it, but it's probably not immediately needed.  Suffice it to say that Latium is a non-entity in international trade.  The only things of value it produces - grain, wool, grapes, olives - are traded only locally, both because Latium is a fairly poor region not famous for anything, and because Latium has no major ports by which to export said products.  No "industries" exist, by which I mean organized and large-scale production schemes like the silk factories of Greece, the weaving towns of Flanders, or the sugar plantations of Sicily.  The same is true of Roman/Ostian marble and Gregoriopolitan salt; they are not widely traded and mostly used locally.

[Magnus Pym]

'm starting to think there is little choice but wage war if we are to grow economically.

[LD]

So, essentially this game's goal is to not do anything with trade? I was sort of getting that insinuation in our IRC conversation and if even local trade isn't a possibility it appears that trade is a poor goal for me or any player.

That is, we just focus on politics and war and survival in a limited fashion (when Barbarossa comes) with an aim towards maximizing our statistics?

e.g. how do we win?

I ask this because I was mostly interested in the trade aspects of the game--if it's more limited, then I can attempt to re-aim to win rather than to build up anything to do with trade, although it will take me some time to wind down my strategy here.

[Elemental_Elf]

So, essentially this game's goal is to not do anything with trade? I was sort of getting that insinuation in our IRC conversation and if even local trade isn't a possibility it appears that trade is a poor goal for me or any player.

That is, we just focus on politics and war and survival in a limited fashion (when Barbarossa comes) with an aim towards maximizing our statistics?

e.g. how do we win?

I ask this because I was mostly interested in the trade aspects of the game--if it's more limited, then I can attempt to re-aim to win rather than to build up anything to do with trade, although it will take me some time to wind down my strategy here.

I think Trade IS important. The problem is that Rome lies in an area that is resource poor. If we really want to make trade a big deal, we need to conquer a trading port (like Pisa, Palermo, Marseilles, Venice, Constantinople, etc.) or conquer a place that has a developed resource/industry (like the wool industry in Flanders).

One thing that I think would help make our city better is to brand ourselves as the best at something, that way when an Italian thinks of that something, he will immediately think of Rome. Every city in Italy tried to do this in the late-middle ages and renaissance, though some were more successful than others. Essentially, we need to brand Rome as being the world's best at something.

[Magnus Pym]

EE is right. Trade IS important. It's just that we are in a poor location. Now that I think about it, i think that's what is making this game fun in the end. Polycarp is giving us a real challenge. It's up to us to exceed the expectations.

I don't think there's any "winning" this game. It's politics. It evolves, that's all.

EE also said something important; that if we do not have any resources available in abundance, or at least enough to export and make a huge profit out of it, we have to have a talent, something other people want. I think we're coming back to what I said here. We need a strong and disciplined army that fights to the death for Rome's interest. It needs to be loyal to the Consuls and the Senate, in general. This becomes a vicious circle though, because an army needs to be fed and well armed, and that costs lotsa moneyz.

I remember Rome was a place of religious tourism, at least that's what Polycarp said. Good thing one of our senator is building a sweet chapel... too bad it's for Frederick though; I see this as a morale downer and what we need is the contrary. Whenever he dies though, Romans will love the place. And I'm saying that because Romans are supposedly patriotic, so it doesn't sound right to make something so prestigious for a foreign king (of course I understand it's for the short-term good of Rome).

[Stargate525]

Well, going back to the original Roman Empire, Rome didn't do anything except act as a political and cultural hub.

If we brought back the Colosseum, the theaters, the chapels... Managed to disentangle ourselves from the current bit of bad blood... I could also see us becoming the Medieval/Renaissance New York City, cultural hub of the world and de facto arbiter in national disputes.

[Polycarp]

Let me refine what I said above a little bit.

The Papacy was, historically, a poor manager of resources.  The Papal States were rarely under any sort of effective control, and wealth was either squandered on constant struggle between various communes and local nobles or frittered away on luxuries for the Pope and his Curia.  Southern Italy benefited from Greek and Arabic influence in agriculture and administration, Northern Italy prospered because of maritime power and the wealth it brought to independent and forward-thinking communes, but central Italy was left a backwater under a stagnant ecclesiastical administration, its poverty made all the more glaring by the contrast to what it had once been.

It is true that Rome in 1152 is not the most "optimal" starting location, were you to pick anywhere in Europe to try and raise a city to prominence.  It does not have silver mines or a textile industry or a perfect harbor like the Venetian lagoon.  It is weak, yet coveted - the Pope and Emperor both want it for one reason or another.  Rome does, however, have resources and strengths of its own.  It has the prestige of the Imperial City; it has churches and relics people from all over Christendom will come to see; it has grand architecture and a massive amount of marble; it even has a uniquely angry populous.  It may have other things that you have yet to discover or things you already know about but have not yet begun to utilize.  The challenge of this game is, essentially, to find, control, and utilize these resources, whether they be mercantile, religious, social, or whatever, in an attempt to do better than your historical counterparts.  The historical rulers of Rome did this poorly; your challenge is to do it well.  If I handed all these things to you on a silver platter and made you as rich as Venice, it would not be the kind of game I would like to run and I suspect it would not be as interesting to you.

To sum it up, the pessimistic statement I made in the last post is reflective of the situation as it exists in the Autumn of 1152.  I am not saying that situation cannot change, nor that you lack the power to change it.  Indeed, you must change the situation if you hope to survive.  You must pursue these things, however; they will not be handed to you.

I think Trade IS important. The problem is that Rome lies in an area that is resource poor. If we really want to make trade a big deal, we need to conquer a trading port (like Pisa, Palermo, Marseilles, Venice, Constantinople, etc.) or conquer a place that has a developed resource/industry (like the wool industry in Flanders).

Though war is an important part of policy and you will doubtless be forced into it repeatedly, I would not be so quick to foreclose upon the possibility of peaceful advancement.  If you replace "conquer" in the above quote with "conquer, develop, or acquire," I agree wholeheartedly.  There is no one single "correct" strategy to this game.

[Elemental_Elf]

My chapel is for the good of Rome! We're surrounded by blood thirsty wolves. Better we play nice with the strongest wolf than hitch our wagon to a doomed horse (i.e. every one else in Italy)! :)  

As for our "Good Quality", I think religious tourism is a good call but it will require a lot of effort to a) make the roads leading to Rome safer than they are (Italy is littered with Bandits) and (b) we must be hesitant about monetizing Religion for we expelled the Pope and he has the power to excommunicate all of us, thereby giving a just cause for all the wolves that surround us to lunge. :(

Though war is an important part of policy and you will doubtless be forced into it repeatedly, I would not be so quick to foreclose upon the possibility of peaceful advancement.  If you replace "conquer" in the above quote with "conquer, develop, or acquire," I agree wholeheartedly.  There is no one single "correct" strategy to this game.

First rule of the Realists' view of International Relations - Security and Self Interest are paramount. Cooperation serves two purposes, making both boats (i.e. states) rise equally and preventing the anarchy of war (during which anything can happen). However, it is always preferable to make trade lopsided in your favor and do your best to ensure you win any and all martial conflicts. Preparation, planning and decisiveness are the qualities of the long-term victor.

[Stargate525]

As for our "Good Quality", I think religious tourism is a good call but it will require a lot of effort to a) make the roads leading to Rome safer than they are (Italy is littered with Bandits) and (b) we must be hesitant about monetizing Religion for we expelled the Pope and he has the power to excommunicate all of us, thereby giving a just cause for all the wolves that surround us to lunge. :(

Or perhaps merely the highway to the nearest port city. And regarding the religion bit, we can always throw in with the Eastern Orthodox (who might be... interested... in getting rome back under a proper bishop) or try and kickstart the reformation.

Though both of those would be exceedingly difficult.

[Polycarp]

By request, this turn's deadline has been extended to Monday, February 13th.