Underdeep Expansion Development (Long-Term)

[Steerpike]

Some of this stuff has been mentioned in the Underdeep Discussion thread, so I thought I'd make a thread for it.

Here are some thoughts on additional possible Underdeep content.  None of this will happen for quite awhile (months and months from now), but I'd like to have an idea of what kind of stuff would you like to see in an Underdeep "expansion pack," and what form players would like that expansion to take.  In particular, I'm thinking of three possible major expansions.  If some of these appeal to you more than others, let me know – if you like you could even rank your choices.

If you have other thoughts on things you'd like to see, this is the place to make suggestions.  In addition to these expansions, I have several other ideas I'd like to keep secret, and I'm also considering the possibility of adding new units and structures to the existing armies before adding in additional factions.  If I did expand the map, the new factions found there could potentially be chosen by players whose previous factions had been eliminated, or possibly by new players.

The Northdeep

This expansion would extend the map northwards.  The Underdeep in this region would consist partially of ice caverns.  Rules for cold weather and snow would be added in.  The following Factions would be added:

Frost Giants: A melee-heavy faction with bonuses for cold weather, Surface-only units (mammoths!), and ice magic (freezing enemies in place).  Almost all units would be Large and very high in Health, and the Giants would also have some non-Giant allies (Ice Trolls and White Dragons, for example).

Deep Gnomes: A mercantile faction with many resource-producing commerce structures, the ability to go into debt or defer Upkeep costs, and trade structures to boost trading range.  They would also get extra bonuses from crystals and have special merchant units which, if garrisoned in allied cities, produce additional Gold.

Vampire Lords: An Undead faction with variant units, with a Vampire general.  Various Vampire-related abilities would be explored (shapeshifting, spawn-creation, blood-magic, charm abilities, etc).  During certain times of the year polar night would allow Vampires to travel on the Surface with impunity, while at other times the midnight sun would render the Surface totally uninhabitable by Vampires.

Wild Dwarves: Tattooed, primitive Dwarves who don't use mines or grow food but hunt and forage very efficiently, with specialized units for both.  They would be semi-nomadic, with fully moveable dungeons, and would have skilled infiltrators and magic users.  They would also have herds of cave-cattle that they could shepherd around.

Eye Tyrants: Beholders – a monster faction, with extremely low numbers of highly powerful units.  Eye Tyrants would have an extremely wide selection of spells and unique abilities, and almost all of their units would be able to fly.  All of their units would be extremely expensive.  Their Xenophobia would make forging alliances difficult, but would allow them to select new targets for their genocidal tendencies, temporarily giving them bonuses against creatures of that type.

The Southdeep

This expansion would extend the map southwards into jungle and desert terrain on the Surface.  There would be a lot of ruins in the Underdeep (tomb complexes, forgotten cities, etc).  Rules for sandstorms and hot weather would be added, as well as the following Factions:

Ophidians: Essentially Yuan-ti (snake-people).  This faction would have a lot of poisonous units, of course, including units with specialized poisons to paralyze or otherwise debilitate enemies.  They would be theocratic, and would possess the ability to enact certain Rites, powerful mega-spells with weeks-long casting times and major effects, like creating incurable plagues or destroying all of a city's food supply.

Tomb Priests: Mummies and their minions.  They would be an Undead faction with variant units and an emphasis on various sorts of curses and diseases.  Their dungeons would be exceptionally well-trapped.  Their magic would include the ability to summon sandstorms and the like.  Undead Sphinxes would be a high-tier unit, and they would also have various scorpion and scarab-based units.  Their Dungeons would all be Cursed rather than Haunted (anyone attacking suffers from the Curse spell while assaulting the dungeon).

Icthyoids: Essentially Deep Ones, with some Kuo-Toa influences.  They would be an aquatic Faction like the Watchers with an emphasis on metamorphosis and turning units into other units (various mutations etc), and also a somewhat "druidic," primal nature.  Their elite units would be Krakens and the like.  They would continue to mine the Lovecraftian vein that the Ceremorphs, Fungoids, and Watchers tap into.

Myrmidons: Ant-people/Formians – a hive-race.  They would only require Food, not Gold or Metal, but would have to forage for it (Forager would be a unit type, with a special ability to boost their foraging capabilities) rather than cultivating it.  Their buildings would require Labour (produced by Drones) rather than Gold/Food/Metal/Bodies.  They'd specialize in very cheap swarms of units, and would all have the Vermin type.

Mouldfolk: A Fungoid variant faction based on Vegepygmies – diminutive, tribal creatures based around a huge mould, a kind of powerful but immobile and non-sentient uber-unit (kind of like a Ceremorph Overbrain).  They would have many variant plant-based units (phantom fungi, thorn-dogs, shambling mounds) as well as shamanistic spellcasters; in general they would have slightly shorter lifespans and lower health but higher speed and more ranged attacks than regular Fungoids.  Instead of founding new Dungeons traditionally, their central mould would bud into a new mould which could then be moved to a new location and settle.

The Eastdeep

AKA "Underdeep Oriental Adventures."  Using the conceit of either a long trans-oceanic tunnel, long-range teleportation circles, specialized ships, or all of the above, this expansion would add a new section of the Underdeep on a different continent to the far east of the current one.  The following Factions would be added:

Hungry Ghosts: A phantasmal Undead faction based around ghosts and spirits.  They would have rules for possession and incorporeality, and many illusion and curse spells.  Their units would be extremely difficult to permanently kill, returning again and again from beyond the grave unless properly exorcised – this would be mechanically represented by a "Manifestation Time," at which point the spirits would coalesce after being destroyed.

Oathsworn Goblins: This variant Goblin faction would be very honourable and ritualistic, with units like Hobgoblin Samurai, Goblin Ninjas, Goblin Rocketeers, and Goblin Warrior-Monks. These Goblins would be unable to break their word once it was given, and could swear certain Oaths (similar to Dwarven boasts) that would give them particular powers.

Ogre Magi: A melee-heavy race with many Large (Ogre, or "Oni") units, summoned creatures, and a very powerful general.  Shapechanging, regeneration, invisibility, and the like would be amongst their abilities.  In addition they would possess an additional resource, Luck, which could be generated through the construction of shrines and used to buff troops or perform certain spells.

Naga: A faction of powerful monsters, very few in number (like Eye Tyrants above), Naga would be more eel-like, distant relatives (and possibly ancient enemies) of the Watchers.  They'd have a very wide range of spells, and would have various aquatic servants like Kappas and Dragon-Turtles.  They would also have the ability to telepathically spy on other people's messages a certain number of times per week, and to implant telepathic suggestions in the minds of enemies.

Ratlings: A race of rat-people.  This faction would be a horde-like race somewhat similar to Kobolds, with an emphasis on disease.  They would have an economy based partially on scavenging, gaining bonuses when they delve into ruins and scrounging Gold and Metal from the corpses of the slain.  They would also be shrewd merchants, with some special mercantile powers.

[LD]

Thank you Steerpike for this good ideas thread. I'll repost my idea from the other thread regarding Golems.

I think the Golems would best fit the northdeep. Two ideas for the concept:

[ic]Golems: A race of sentient stone and metallic creatures, created by a long-dead archmage to guard his tomb, have awoken and risen to impose order on the chaos of the Underdeep, fulfilling strange and misinterpreted orders from long ago.

or

Archwizards: The Archwizard and the Apprentice have traveled to the Northdeep to research lore and discover ancient artifacts from long-dead empires. To aid their research's progress and to prevent external attack, they have created guardians in the caverns- golems, gargoyles, and magical traps await those who assail the Archwizards.[/ic]

Also check out the races in Small World for other inspiration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_World_%28board_game%29


[ic]    Cultists (5) - Place the "Great Ancient" token on your first conquest. That region is immune and adjacent regions may be conquered at -1 token. Move the Great Ancient to one of your Cultist regions at the beginning of subsequent turns.
    Drow (4) - Gain 1 bonus coin for every drow region that does not border a region containing any non-drow monster/race tokens.
    Flames (4) - Place the Volcano token on any Chasm region on the board. Conquer any region adjacent to it, or adjacent to any of your Flames regions linked to it, as if that region were empty.
    Gnomes (6) - During other player's turns your Gnome Regions are immune to all powers (Racial, Bonus, Relic or Place).
    Iron Dwarves (7) - At turns end, gain 1 Silver Hammer for every Mine region you control. During subsequent turns, those hammers may be used as normal tokens to conquer regions, but must be taken up before scoring (leaving at least 1 active race token in each region conquered).
    Kraken (5) - Kraken tokens do not have to abandon River regions at turn end.
    Liches (5) - Collect 1 bonus coin from any opponent each time they conquer one of your in-decline Liches regions.
    Lizardmen (7) - Pass through any River region, empty or occupied, without having to conquer the region or leaving any tokens in it.
    Mudmen (5) - During redeployment, take 1 bonus Mudmen token from the tray for every Muddy region you control and redeploy them as well.
    Mummies (10) - Conquer all regions at 1 more token than usual.
    Ogres (5) - Conquer any region using 1 less token than usual.
    Shadow Mimes (7) - When selecting the shadow mimes, you may swap their Special Power banner with any other Special power banner in the selection column.
    Shrooms (5) - Collect 1 bonus coin for each Mushroom Forest region you occupy.
    Spiderines (7) - Treat all regions bordering a Chasm as adjacent to yours for conquest purposes. For your first conquest, you may enter the board through any region bordering a chasm.
    Will o' Wisps (6) - You may use the reinforcement die before any conquest of a region that is a mystic crystal region or adjacent to a mystic crystal region you occupy.[/ic]

[Steerpike]

Yeah, I'm a big Smallworld fan, and a bunch of the expansions :)

In fact, although the core gameplay mechanics don't resemble Smallworld's very much, I first had the idea for Underdeep when playing a combination game of Smallworld and Smallworld Underground linked together.

The Golems idea is interesting - I'll have to mull it over.  They would definitely need some varied units.  I like the Archwizard idea too but it might be a little "bright" for the gloomy, nefarious world of the Underdeep, which is (after all) mostly about playing ruthless villains, elder evils, marauding monsters, and the like.  There are evil wizards, of course.  Maybe if I darkened the Faction up a bit...

[HippopotamusDundee]

The Golems idea is interesting - I'll have to mull it over.  They would definitely need some varied units.  I like the Archwizard idea too but it might be a little "bright" for the gloomy, nefarious world of the Underdeep, which is (after all) mostly about playing ruthless villains, elder evils, marauding monsters, and the like.  There are evil wizards, of course.  Maybe if I darkened the Faction up a bit...

What about taking a Frankenstinean approach - a visionary wizard experimenting with golems and animation in an attempt to create new life unexpectedly succeeds, the creature is *wrong* and lacking in some way, the creature desires a mate to relate to and forces the creator to deliver.

The difference in this story is that the wizard *does* create the mate and the creatures go on to breed and learn from the wizard the secret of further creation so you have a race of emotionless, brutally utilitarian (the grand problem of life is sorrow, the best way to eliminate it is to wipe out all other beings) and terrifyingly efficient Golems.

I don't know - 'tis merely a thought.

[Steerpike]

A Frankenstein-y faction could work, although LD's idea was to make a more metal-dependent faction.

Any thoughts more generally on expansions?    Would people prefer to see me focus heavily on expanding other aspects of the game, like adding more spells, commerce options, guilds, or something else?

Again, this kind of thing is a fair way down the pipe.

[HippopotamusDundee]

Apologies if I was unclear - I meant a metal-dependent Golem faction and was referencing Frankenstein more in terms of theme and motifs than the fleshy nature of the Creature.

To be honest all of the potential expansions sound totally awesome and I'd play just about any of the new factions you've listed. Probably not very helpful, but yeah.

[Xathan]

I think expansions pretty much have to happen, much as I love the idea of more spells, commerce options, guilds, etc. Granted, I'm very much in love with my faction so my first choice would be new units for existing factions, but as the game goes on it's going to get more crowded and expansion to add room are exciting and interesting - and the new factions sound awesome.

I'll give more detailed feedback later on, but wanted to toss that out right off the bat. :)

[LD]

The Golems idea is interesting - I'll have to mull it over.  They would definitely need some varied units.  I like the Archwizard idea too but it might be a little "bright" for the gloomy, nefarious world of the Underdeep, which is (after all) mostly about playing ruthless villains, elder evils, marauding monsters, and the like.  There are evil wizards, of course.  Maybe if I darkened the Faction up a bit...

Feel free to make them the "Dark Wizards" faction.

Here are some unit list ideas I had for both Golem-potential concepts.

Golems
1. Stone Golem (5g/5m to build; just costs gold for maint.) The basic infantry unit.
2. Iron Golem (large; lots of metal for build and maint.) The MBT of the group.
3. Homunculus (costs metal and gold to build; maint; 1 f, 1 g) This tiny creature serves a similar role to the Blunderdigs in that it can get behind enemy fortifications. Its attack/defense/health are very low, but it can mine out enemies and it has a random spell associated with each one that is created.
4. Flesh Golem (requires a body and metal to build; requires metal and food for upkeep) This golem has leadership
5. Walking Brain
6. Brain-in-a-Jar
7. Stone Gargoyle (only metal requirements)
8. Clockwork Creep (metal and gold reqs to build; metal to upkeep) (the "fast" golem that zips around on wheels and can act as an ATV)

Wizards Faction
1. Animated Suit of Armor (requires a spell ritual to be performed by a wizard before it can be created)
2. Stone Golem (basic unit)
3. Iron Golem (MBT)
4. Stone Gargoyle
5. Flesh Golem (see above)
6. Homunculus (see above)
7. Earth Elemental (essentially the mid point between Stone and Iron Golems).
8. Archwizard and Apprentice
9. Shield Guardian (essentially an upgraded Suit of Armor... this is a floating shield that has high defense and health. No attack. It acts as a screen for units).

I first had the idea for Underdeep when playing a combination game of Smallworld and Smallworld Underground linked together.

How long would that take? Smallworld games are fun and in theory can be quite quick, but I would imagine that the link would double the games' time (est. at 30 min extra per player over 2). I very much enjoy Small World; I have tales and legends and made a number of my own units/cards.

[Steerpike]

It depends on how many people are playing.  I wouldn't say it takes a lot longer, as usually you play with 2 of the smaller boards joined, not the bigger ones.

Some interesting unit ideas.

I am curious which direction people would most like explored - north, south, east...?

[TheMeanestGuest]

North or South appeal to me the most.

[Nomadic]

Definitely loving the idea of the southdeep

[Xathan]

In order of preference, I'd go East, South, North. Am I the only one who finds the appeal of an Oni faction to be really, really high? :P

[Polycarp]

The problem with any "directional" expansion is that - if the expansion occurs in the present game - not all players will be able to experience it or get anything out of it.  My faction, for instance, is probably not going to have any ability to interact with a northern expansion to the map, at least not in a meaningful way.  Personally, I'd prefer any expansions done in mid-game to be of the piecemeal variety - a new cave opens up here, a tunnel is discovered there, and so on.

Also, I notice that the western direction is curiously absent...

[Xathan]

The problem with any "directional" expansion is that - if the expansion occurs in the present game - not all players will be able to experience it or get anything out of it.  My faction, for instance, is probably not going to have any ability to interact with a northern expansion to the map, at least not in a meaningful way.  Personally, I'd prefer any expansions done in mid-game to be of the piecemeal variety - a new cave opens up here, a tunnel is discovered there, and so on.

Also, I notice that the western direction is curiously absent...

Another thing: you mentioned portals appearing for the Eastdeep. I think that might be a good way to handle any expansion to prevent people from being limited in their ability to participate.

[Steerpike]

The problem with any "directional" expansion is that - if the expansion occurs in the present game - not all players will be able to experience it or get anything out of it.  My faction, for instance, is probably not going to have any ability to interact with a northern expansion to the map, at least not in a meaningful way.  Personally, I'd prefer any expansions done in mid-game to be of the piecemeal variety - a new cave opens up here, a tunnel is discovered there, and so on.

That will definitely happen too, a space on the maps permits.

Another thing: you mentioned portals appearing for the Eastdeep. I think that might be a good way to handle any expansion to prevent people from being limited in their ability to participate.

Yeah, definitely.

For the North and Southdeep, it wouldn't just be via Surface access.  Having the map extended Northwards or Southwards would involve new tunnels opening up to those locations, probably on multiple levels.  Indeed, that would be the "justification" for extending the map at all.