Underdeep Expansion Development (Long-Term)

[LD]

The North is my preference. Beyond the promise of the long-forgotten ruins, I am not interested in the South. The East is okay.

[Xathan]

...the promise of the long-forgotten ruins...

I'd love to see some kind of "plane of shadow" or "mirror world" expansion, where no new factions are introduced, but instead the map is a mirror image of the current one and in the place of various capital cities, major battle sites, or major dungeons there are ruins that correspond to the race that inhabits it in the real world. Partially because the promise of treasure in ruins really interests me, and because it would open up a whole new set of caverns for relatively little work for you, Steerpike. :) And the scramble to get to "your" ruins though portals that don't even remotely correspond to their location in the real world would really encourage people to fight. I could even see the ruins of capitol cities being inhabited by opposite versions of various faction leaders.

Speaking of which, I'd like for one region to open up inhabited by mainly good forces that are working together and really, really find us disgusting. ;) (Well, except for the Dwarves, Dwerim, and Nocae)

[Llum]

I can't say I really prefer any direction over any other. I like some of the concepts and dislike some of the others. I agree pretty heavily with Polycarps statement that if the new areas are based off a "side" of the map I'm basically out for North and West but have easy access to South an "East".

The Northdeep

This expansion would extend the map northwards.  The Underdeep in this region would consist partially of ice caverns.  Rules for cold weather and snow would be added in.  The following Factions would be added:

Frost Giants: A melee-heavy faction with bonuses for cold weather, Surface-only units (mammoths!), and ice magic (freezing enemies in place).  Almost all units would be Large and very high in Health, and the Giants would also have some non-Giant allies (Ice Trolls and White Dragons, for example).

Deep Gnomes: A mercantile faction with many resource-producing commerce structures, the ability to go into debt or defer Upkeep costs, and trade structures to boost trading range.  They would also get extra bonuses from crystals and have special merchant units which, if garrisoned in allied cities, produce additional Gold.

Vampire Lords: An Undead faction with variant units, with a Vampire general.  Various Vampire-related abilities would be explored (shapeshifting, spawn-creation, blood-magic, charm abilities, etc).  During certain times of the year polar night would allow Vampires to travel on the Surface with impunity, while at other times the midnight sun would render the Surface totally uninhabitable by Vampires.

Wild Dwarves: Tattooed, primitive Dwarves who don't use mines or grow food but hunt and forage very efficiently, with specialized units for both.  They would be semi-nomadic, with fully moveable dungeons, and would have skilled infiltrators and magic users.  They would also have herds of cave-cattle that they could shepherd around.

Eye Tyrants: Beholders – a monster faction, with extremely low numbers of highly powerful units.  Eye Tyrants would have an extremely wide selection of spells and unique abilities, and almost all of their units would be able to fly.  All of their units would be extremely expensive.  Their Xenophobia would make forging alliances difficult, but would allow them to select new targets for their genocidal tendencies, temporarily giving them bonuses against creatures of that type.

Most of these sound really cool except the gnomes, but that's because I'm skeptical on how mercantile this game can get. I'm a little curious about a Large-sized based race and on the balance of more expensive stronger units. Wild Dwarves seem pretty similar to Orcs, just friendly. Also the Vampire mechanic with the seasonal sunlight is just badass.

The Southdeep

This expansion would extend the map southwards into jungle and desert terrain on the Surface.  There would be a lot of ruins in the Underdeep (tomb complexes, forgotten cities, etc).  Rules for sandstorms and hot weather would be added, as well as the following Factions:

Ophidians: Essentially Yuan-ti (snake-people).  This faction would have a lot of poisonous units, of course, including units with specialized poisons to paralyze or otherwise debilitate enemies.  They would be theocratic, and would possess the ability to enact certain Rites, powerful mega-spells with weeks-long casting times and major effects, like creating incurable plagues or destroying all of a city's food supply.

Tomb Priests: Mummies and their minions.  They would be an Undead faction with variant units and an emphasis on various sorts of curses and diseases.  Their dungeons would be exceptionally well-trapped.  Their magic would include the ability to summon sandstorms and the like.  Undead Sphinxes would be a high-tier unit, and they would also have various scorpion and scarab-based units.  Their Dungeons would all be Cursed rather than Haunted (anyone attacking suffers from the Curse spell while assaulting the dungeon).

Icthyoids: Essentially Deep Ones, with some Kuo-Toa influences.  They would be an aquatic Faction like the Watchers with an emphasis on metamorphosis and turning units into other units (various mutations etc), and also a somewhat "druidic," primal nature.  Their elite units would be Krakens and the like.  They would continue to mine the Lovecraftian vein that the Ceremorphs, Fungoids, and Watchers tap into.

Myrmidons: Ant-people/Formians – a hive-race.  They would only require Food, not Gold or Metal, but would have to forage for it (Forager would be a unit type, with a special ability to boost their foraging capabilities) rather than cultivating it.  Their buildings would require Labour (produced by Drones) rather than Gold/Food/Metal/Bodies.  They'd specialize in very cheap swarms of units, and would all have the Vermin type.

Mouldfolk: A Fungoid variant faction based on Vegepygmies – diminutive, tribal creatures based around a huge mould, a kind of powerful but immobile and non-sentient uber-unit (kind of like a Ceremorph Overbrain).  They would have many variant plant-based units (phantom fungi, thorn-dogs, shambling mounds) as well as shamanistic spellcasters; in general they would have slightly shorter lifespans and lower health but higher speed and more ranged attacks than regular Fungoids.  Instead of founding new Dungeons traditionally, their central mould would bud into a new mould which could then be moved to a new location and settle.

Myrmidons probably have the coolest concept I've seen. I like the idea of Rites, weeks long casting mega spells. The Icthyoids really do not appeal to me at all, the aquatic nature seems very very limiting, especially with how little water there is in some regions (the LD for example).

The Eastdeep

AKA "Underdeep Oriental Adventures."  Using the conceit of either a long trans-oceanic tunnel, long-range teleportation circles, specialized ships, or all of the above, this expansion would add a new section of the Underdeep on a different continent to the far east of the current one.  The following Factions would be added:

Hungry Ghosts: A phantasmal Undead faction based around ghosts and spirits.  They would have rules for possession and incorporeality, and many illusion and curse spells.  Their units would be extremely difficult to permanently kill, returning again and again from beyond the grave unless properly exorcised – this would be mechanically represented by a "Manifestation Time," at which point the spirits would coalesce after being destroyed.

Oathsworn Goblins: This variant Goblin faction would be very honourable and ritualistic, with units like Hobgoblin Samurai, Goblin Ninjas, Goblin Rocketeers, and Goblin Warrior-Monks. These Goblins would be unable to break their word once it was given, and could swear certain Oaths (similar to Dwarven boasts) that would give them particular powers.

Ogre Magi: A melee-heavy race with many Large (Ogre, or "Oni") units, summoned creatures, and a very powerful general.  Shapechanging, regeneration, invisibility, and the like would be amongst their abilities.  In addition they would possess an additional resource, Luck, which could be generated through the construction of shrines and used to buff troops or perform certain spells.

Naga: A faction of powerful monsters, very few in number (like Eye Tyrants above), Naga would be more eel-like, distant relatives (and possibly ancient enemies) of the Watchers.  They'd have a very wide range of spells, and would have various aquatic servants like Kappas and Dragon-Turtles.  They would also have the ability to telepathically spy on other people's messages a certain number of times per week, and to implant telepathic suggestions in the minds of enemies.

Ratlings: A race of rat-people.  This faction would be a horde-like race somewhat similar to Kobolds, with an emphasis on disease.  They would have an economy based partially on scavenging, gaining bonuses when they delve into ruins and scrounging Gold and Metal from the corpses of the slain.  They would also be shrewd merchants, with some special mercantile powers.

The Manifestation Time mechanic sounds super cool, but otherwise this is probably my least favorite of the three directions.

[Steerpike]

Some really excellent thoughts Llum, thanks!

A few comments-on-your-comments:

Most of these sound really cool except the gnomes, but that's because I'm skeptical on how mercantile this game can get.

This is fair enough.  Mechanics I'm picturing in particular for them are gold-producing merchant units (which might also generate money if garrisoned in the dungeons of other players), a market where food and metal can be converted into gold (or vice versa), banks allowing the player to go into debt to fund big purchases, an economy built around commerce-structures (like Hall of Trade) rather than mines, breaking building payments up over the course of weeks, and stuff like that.

Wild Dwarves seem pretty similar to Orcs, just friendly.

This is true to an extent, although I think they'd actually play pretty differently - Orcs are so raid dependent, whereas Wild Dwarves would be tied to their herds and to foraging/hunting.  So their economy, at least, would probably feel different.

The Icthyoids really do not appeal to me at all, the aquatic nature seems very very limiting, especially with how little water there is in some regions (the LD for example).

I would probably make the Southdeep more watery.  They wouldn't be fully aquatic though - they'd be amphibious, though if they didn't make it back to water after a certain period they'd start to lose health.

Glad you like the Myrmidons!

[Humabout]

From a purely insterst-oriented perspective, Northdeep sounds the most intriguing, but it's also the must useless to my me at present.  I'd never interact with it, and frankly be annoyed that other people suddenly get lots of expansion while i'm still cornered.  Southdeep would be best from a faction-location perspective to me.  I don't know how you'd deal with either issue.  I can say that if I get wiped out, I'd like to start over as frost giants, though.

[zcynthr]

My interest is piqued in the order of East, South, North.

<3 Oni.

[Rhamnousia]

I really like the Eastdeep, because at least in my personal backstory for the Watchers, Cruel Form of Truth is just the uppermost tip of the ruins of their now-submerged empire, so the ideas of a) trans-oceanic travel and b) another ancient race to either war against or ally with excites the hell out of me. The Southdeep also seems pretty cool, especially if there're more waterways to explore and expand into. Northdeep doesn't have as much to offer to my current situation, though the Deep Gnomes are pretty interesting.

[Ghostman]

I'd like for one region to open up inhabited by mainly good forces that are working together and really, really find us disgusting. ;)

Isn't that what the surface is?

[Xathan]

I'd like for one region to open up inhabited by mainly good forces that are working together and really, really find us disgusting. ;)

Isn't that what the surface is?

True; I should add "and their disgust immensely outweighs their fear, so they're more prone to attacking us." :P

[Humabout]

A unifying force could be interesting.  In that case, i really hope it's th north!  That's really far from me!  :p

[Steerpike]

Any other thoughts?  It's actually fairly close right now in terms of preferences.

[Xathan]

One thing I want to add as far as thoughts (until I ponder to think some more); Go with whichever you'd be most comfortable with adding and have the most solid ideas for. That'll  make for the best gaming experience, IMO.

[Raelifin]

I'd like to cast my vote for incremental updates and changes. One of the advantages of a pbp game like this is the ability to roll out new rules and areas incrementally with lots of warning. For instance, want to implement ore instead of metal? Make it happen in X weeks! Want to add some north areas and factions? Roll it out slowly over the course of a couple months! Mystery and adventure are what make games like this fun! </2cp>

[Steerpike]

Fair enough.  Although I don't want to tamper with anything "fundamental" (like changing metal into ore, much as that idea appeals to me) I will stick to an incremental update system and surprise you guys in terms of major expansions.

[LD]

Because you asked:

[ic]The Wild Wild Westdeep

Shotgun-totin' Squirrelfolk and the Rodent Alliance

Tricksy Foxfolk of the Nine Tails and other Spirit creatures

The Great Beefalhorde, which must keep moving and grazing

Marsupivolk, with pouches... Include the KangerJumps with pouches full of poison, the voracious TasDevils, deadly Dingos, and more mysterious beasts

Large Bearfolk who move very slow but who thrive in colder climes.[/ic]

I am also fine with the metal-->ore conversion system and subsequent requirement of an extra building if we have a few weeks to prepare (3-4 weeks). I think some minor incremental shifts in rules is okay if we have 3-4 weeks to prepare for each shift; any shorter and peoples' grand plans and outlays of money can get interfered with.