–⊙– Mnemosyne: Discussion & Interest –⊙–

[Rhamnousia]

Also, are the Mnemosytes basically human-equivalents in the same vein as the Red Martians?

[Humabout]

No apologies necessary! I just wouldn't want to rob the forums of your awesome ideas!

Your mercenary faction sounds great.  I've kind of done the bioengineered tech and living war beast thing with the Luria already, so you're dead on the money with these suggestions.

I see ghoulherds as random NPC encounter, though if someone wants to go the icky route, it's certainly fitting.  The rest sound great, too!

Also, I'm using Mnemosytes as a baseline standard.  They're the analog to Red Men or humans.

[Humabout]

[note=Wishlist]
Here are some other structures I would like to work into the game eventually, but they aren't necessary just yet.

Psychic Temple
Spy Center
Cryptography Center
Advanced Production Structures
Watch Towers
[/note]
⚶ The Orphans of Civilization are Complete ⚶

I realize that the pricing is still a bit whacky and I need some help reeling it in.  I'm trying to get it balanced against itself before scaling it for sake of easy.  Eventually, I'd like 1 population to produce $1, so we can remove a step in sorting out resource production, but that's just a matter of multiplying all prices by a factor.  So any input on relative pricing would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I feel like construction times are potentially annoyingly long, and decreasing those times is inordinately expensive.  I sort of pulled numbers out of the air just to get some numbers for now, but I would like to fix those, as well.  I'm currently leaning toward reducing the price per $1/turn of making new things.  Any thoughts?

[Rhamnousia]

The cost of some of the structures seems pretty steep, especially the water-production ones. I'm not an expert on mechanics, but what about the possibility of having inclement weather interfering with Mist Farms (so they produce less in a sandstorm, if any at all) or limiting Permafrost Mines to certain types of terrain (so you can't build them in hot deserts or jungles)? It seems like the advantage of wells would be that they're reliable as much as being cheaper. Or am I totally mistaken in assuming these are "default" structures?

The construction rules seem a little arcane as well.

How do you see the special rules working for player-created factions? Will we be able to copy the ones from the default factions, possibly with some tweaking like trading in starting structures for increased starting cash? I really like the write-up you've given for the Mnemosytes: the unit descriptions especially have helped to clarify what would otherwise just be stat blocks (albeit very interesting stat blocks). Giving me tons of idea for my own faction's possible units.

Now in terms of fluff, how many other races do you envision wandering Mnemosyne, possibly living in their own isolated enclaves? Maybe the ancient myths of once-fertile Mnemosyne have traveled farther than news of its current decay and still attract would-be colonists and refugees like a siren song, only to leave them stranded on the dying world?

[Humabout]

The water-production costs were based on taking 3 turns at full population to pay off times an efficiency modifier.  That is probably unrealistic, so that's I'm guessing that's why they look so expensive.  I'm not against reducing prices, but I want to get everything balanced against each other.  Yes, wells are cheap, but they take a lot of food to maintain, per water production (which is required to make food).  The more expensive water production structures have substantially better water to food ratios.  I see water as the single most limiting factor on income in the game.  And yes, these are default structures, although I can see some factions (e.g., sarkth) having limited structure lists because of their fluff.  I'll need help making them more viable, probably.

I like the idea of weather interfering with things.  I was considering having seasons (assuming the game lasted that long), so that come winter, farms stopped producing food, but vats chug along year-round.  That is still in the "This could be a cool idea" phase, however.

I intended for not every hex to have equal resources.  That was the point of the Prospecting Crew (or their analog, depending on the faction).  A prospecting crew determines if there is water, and what it takes to get to it.  Perhaps there's no permafrost in one place or an underground river in another.  Discovering new water supplies would mean more income and more places to squabble over.  That previously worthless tract of wasteland might suddenly become invaluable.

Perhaps I've done a poor job of explaining how construction works.  A given unit/structure is rated for producing $X per turn of structures/elements.  So, as it stands frex, a $1,00,000 Training Ground can produce $35,000 of elements per turn.  Each turn it is pumping out troops, you have to pay for them (at full capacity, $35,000 per turn).  If an element costs more than this amount, it takes more turns to produce (a $70,000 element would take two turns to produce; you'd pay $35,000 each turn for two turns).  Each settlement is rated for production capacity, not the number of "Training Grounds" or "Weapon Factories" etc. it has.  A settlement may be able to produce $100,000 per turn of flyers, frex; how many individual facilities that means it has doesn't really matter.  Similarly, you can divide up how that $100,000 per turn gets built - 1 massive elements, ten smaller elements, ten large elements over a longer period of time, etc.  Construction crews work the same way, except their mobile and have to travel to wherever you're building a structure; that's why they're quantized.

Frankly, special rules are very flavor-based.  I don't have a standardized way of doing those, and I"m kind of winging their balancing.  I'll need feedback on those bigtime.  Frex, atm, sarkth require less fodo and water, so they'll produce more population and money, but they have fewer unit and structure options (and none that are particularly high-tech).  I'm hoping this results in massive hordes of underpowered troops - Orks to the Mnemosytes' Eldar.

I'm glad the writeups helped.  I knew those needed to be done bigtime.  The statblocks alone don't mean much.  I think you'll find the Phthan and Luria elements even more illucidating, since that's where we'll see rules being used for mechanical purposes and flavored into what we actually want - for example if we made a Carnifex, it would be around TS 400, Armor Class, WT 4, and have Mechanized mobility class; it'd add Artillery class if it had the bioplasma option and Fire class if it had any other ranged weapons.

I like the idea of Mnemosyne having lots of undiscovered or forgotten races, although mnemosytes, sarkth, and luria are the main ones.  I think one or two extraterrestrial factions is enough, though.  Too many, and it becomes a constant cliche and loses its mystique and appeal.

[Rhamnousia]

Okay, that all makes sense! Now that you've clarified them a bit, the recruitment rules seem pretty compelling: smaller, cheaper recruitment structures would be quicker to produce than more elaborate ones, but they'd be much more limited in how much they can produce. I do not envy the amount of balancing you might have to do and hope some members more competent than me could lend you a hand with that.

I asked about the alien races mostly because I envision the Bastards as a very diverse, not all anthropomorphic bunch, largely inspired by a few scifi artists I'm big fans of:

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/233/6/2/Filthy_prawn____by_povorot.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/31566/2382567-pinwheel_hunters_1.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/115/e/f/the_matriarch_and_the_administrator_by_povorot-d4xjg2q.jpg

Of course, it's likely that they could be "living fossils" or somesuch.

Still curious to hear about any other players interested so far! It can't just be me...

[Humabout]

There will definitely be nonhumanoid races.  Fro that matter, the luria are decidedly not humanoid.  They more closely resemble an insectile dinosaur with a flukeworm mouth and opposing digits.

I'm cool with the Bastards being somewhat random and diverse in their composition.  It won't have much affect on statistics except in that you may end up with an inordinate number of different element types (or variants on elements).  As a wandering mercenary group, I could see them picking up many of the forgotten or lost peoples of Mnemosyne, which could make them quite the wonder to behold.

[Humabout]

[note=Wishlist]
Somethings I see fitting the Sarkth:

Using the loot rules to recover enemy elements rather than just getting cash - e.g., using looted "cash" to by enemy vehicle or artillery elements that were in the battle[/note]
⚴ The Savages of the Chaos Wastes are Complete⚴

They should be (eventually if not already) calibrated to produce lots and lots of elements cheaply, all of which are individually less effective than those of the Mnemosytes.  In other words, Orks-meet-Tharks.

Element and structure lists seem sparse atm.  I like the idea of recovering and using enemy elements, though.  I also like the idea of them being relatively uninventive compared to the Mnemosytes (Who are suppose to be the techie guys).

[Steerpike]

This is developing in some very interesting ways!  I see that you have divided your races up a bit more dramatically.  Great soundtracks!

[Humabout]

Thanks man!  I'm starting to think that each player will receive their own map of the local area and may (or may not) know generally where the other players are (e.g., Player X is about 3 turns by flyer south-southeast of Player Y).  I don't see each "race" living on top of the others, and it'd be really great if some come as a surprise to others.  I tend to think that the only two that really share any history are the mnemosytes and sarkth, one being the "degraded" and savage lineage of the other, sort of.

[Humabout]

✸ The Otherworlders are Complete✸

I think I'd like to add more structures at some point.  Maaaybe some more units, but their limited list speaks to their parthenogenic production - they are all natural clones of each other.  Otherwise, I think this makes for a slow-advancing, quick-striking faction with very powerful units.  The high cost should keep their numbers down, though.

[Humabout]

Updates: 
The information from the threads is getting uploaded to the wiki HERE!

Also...

• Revised the pricing for units
  
• Separated actual speed from Mibility type and then dropped mobility type in order to gain more differentiation
• between factions.
  
• Am reevaluating some of the skill ratings for Commands - Admin rolls every turn for logistics may be detail than is fun
  
• Am still pondering the economy and need for three separate resources; any input here would be appreciated.
  

[LD]

My largest concern with the prices/formulas is that the numbers aren't round or "simple" numbers to add/subtract. I saw a few 40% and odd numbers here and there. I would need a calculator or an excel program to play- I couldn't do the math in my head or in shorthand.

Could the numbers be more representational? Probably not... but if so it would help me at least.

That being said, don't change things *just* for me; I don't think I will have enough time to join, but I have read your writeups and I wanted to help if possible :)

[Humabout]

Thanks for the input for sure!  Right now, I've just settled on rounding to two significant figures, but I see what you are saying.  Most of the pricing is based on 20% or 50% increments.  Rounding those numbers to the nearest 1e Whatever or 5eWhatever wouldn't hurt for the math any.  Right now, I've been primarily concerned with homing in on a balanced pricing scheme.  Since rounding can affect that initial tweaking, I haven't really tried to make anything pretty.  Your comment is certain valid and noted for future reference, though!

[Humabout]

April 4 Update

The Mnemosyne wiki is up and running! It has all of the rules, and all future rule revisions, updates and additions will be put there rather than the forum thread.

In other news, I have reached the following decisions:

• Ability Ratings (formerly called skills or skill ratings) will remain as they are:  Strategy, Leadership, Logistics (formerly Administration), and Intelligence.  This will give players more room to differentiate their commands.
  
• I am keeping the food-water-$ tripod for the economy and will eventually shift prices such that Population 1 yields $1 per turn.  That should greatly simplify matters.  I will also make an attempt to round all prices to the nearest factor of 5, 50, 500, etc. based on two significant figures.  Again, this will make math easier and faster.
  
• Production Structures will be simplified so that each produces elements of a given mobility type (Land, Air, or Water).  Another structure will be required to research various Special Classes.  Until a special class is researched, elements with that special class cannot be recruited.
  
• Psychic Powers will exist.  Mechanically, combat powers are subsumed into an element's TS and utility powers are usable on some sort of a weekly basis (probably unlimited unless otherwise noted).
  

Pending Decisions:

• Fog of War:  Should players get a clear view of the entire map at all times or only "see" a certain radius around their positions?
  
• Should Psychic Powers follow some sort of "tech tree," have to be researched individually but without prereqs, or be all available at once?
  
• How to price Special Class research?  How to set research times?
  
• Should production structures differ in cost from each other?