Underdeep Discussion & Interest Thread

[sparkletwist]

New messages for Overbrain/Saersensine and Llitul.

[Polycarp]

The Glow has new flavor!

Also messages for Dolmar, Llitul, and Jonquille.

[HippopotamusDundee]

Replies up for Whisper and the Succubi!

[Nomadic]

Replies up for Kafer, Whisper, and Shee-Ra.

[Llum]

Message to Dreams of Dead Races

[sparkletwist]

New messages to Kirr, Llitul, Abject, and the Overbrain.

[Polycarp]

Posted messages to Llitul and Kafer.

[Steerpike]

After listening to the issues of some players I have tentatively made a few small adjustments to Cave Beetles and Tunnel Hulks - a minor nerf for Cave Beetles (slight defence adjustment, and making them vulnerable to Poison) and a minor buff for Tunnel Hulks (increasing their speed by 1, slightly higher defence).

I'd again like to reiterate that I want to keep nerfing/buffing/rebalancing to a minimum, as this sort of thing can very easily turn into an endless, messy debate.  I'm absolutely sure that the game is not fully balanced, but I'm also confident than given months of tinkering and playtesting it would still probably not be fully balanced (have a glance through some Starcraft patch notes and you'll see what I mean...).  This is a goofy experimental little forum game I'm trying out here, not an exhaustively fine-tuned RTS or boardgame.  Let's approach this as the zany lark that it is.

[Xathan]

Well, intake comfort in knowing my constant rules questions are 'whole new shit' as opposed to modify old shit. :P

Seriously sorry if I'm contributing to the cycle. :(

[Steerpike]

Tone is hard to judge on the internet, so just to clarify I don't want to sound admonishing here in any way shape or form.  The above is more of a plea - I just know that I could spend hours and hours trying (almost certainly in vain) to polish the game's balance to a perfect shine and making myself crazy in the process, and the thought of trying to do that sort of makes my brain cry.

[Raelifin]

After listening to the issues of some players I have tentatively made a few small adjustments to Cave Beetles and Tunnel Hulks - a minor nerf for Cave Beetles (slight defence adjustment, and making them vulnerable to Poison) and a minor buff for Tunnel Hulks (increasing their speed by 1, slightly higher defence).

I'd again like to reiterate that I want to keep nerfing/buffing/rebalancing to a minimum, as this sort of thing can very easily turn into an endless, messy debate.  I'm absolutely sure that the game is not fully balanced, but I'm also confident than given months of tinkering and playtesting it would still probably not be fully balanced (have a glance through some Starcraft patch notes and you'll see what I mean...).  This is a goofy experimental little forum game I'm trying out here, not an exhaustively fine-tuned RTS or boardgame.  Let's approach this as the zany lark that it is.

In the same vein, I will declare that I am always in favor of gameplay tweeks that you think are good, even if they mess up my strategy. As a zany lark, that's just the sort of think I think could be fun to adapt to. :D

[Xathan]

Also, as a suggestion, why not put a moratorium of making balance changes for the remainder of the month of the beetle? Let yourself focus on updates, new content as you feel like, your other projects, and let the combats of the month show if any serious balance issues exist. Focus on the Zany Lark part of this wonderful game. :)

[Steerpike]

I won't specifically preclude changing things if they need changing.  I think Cave Beetles did need changing.  I'd just like to keep balance debates down to a dull simmer; the current level of input is just fine and much appreciated and I'm glad that people have PMed me about issues.  Those that PMed me have been exceptionally polite and thoughtful, and that level of feedback is exactly right.  I am more anticipating the possibility of small changes spiraling into an "open season" on the game's mechanics and units, which I want to avoid; that's all.

[Xathan]

Ahhhh, that makes sense. Trying to avoid meta game warfare (when we were discussing beetles in chat last night, that phase came up; people trying to get opposing faction's units nerfered). Not that we thought anyone would do that, bit were worried it could happen.

[Polycarp]

Ahhhh, that makes sense. Trying to avoid meta game warfare (when we were discussing beetles in chat last night, that phase came up; people trying to get opposing faction's units nerfered). Not that we thought anyone would do that, bit were worried it could happen.

I do worry about this, or at least the appearance of it.  In part, the problem is that every player essentially has his/her own faction, so a nerf to a particular unit is in danger of looking like a nerf to one particular player.  If a third of us were Dwarves, a nerf to a Dwarf unit wouldn't risk looking personal or opportunistic.  Additionally, the people most likely to be looking carefully at your roster, running sims of it, and so on, are your neighbors - and thus the people who are most likely to be aware of units that need a change are the same people who are likely to directly benefit from the change.

The best course of action is probably to, as SP says, keep changes to a minimum, only when there's broad consensus that something should probably be done (which has been true of both warriors and beetles, both of whom Llum and I have talked about being possibly too powerful since pretty much the beginning of the game).  Undoubtedly some factions have stronger lists than others, but it's worth remembering, I think, that dominance in this game rests considerably on non-unit factors - like who allies with you and who allies against you.

If it's at all reassuring, Steerpike, I asked in the beetlechat last night if there were any other units people felt were in dire need of changes, and the chat group couldn't really come up with any. :)