Geas RPG (WIP)

[Seraph]

I understand that, but the thing about honor and reputation is that they require context. People have to know something about you and know something about the context to know anything about your reputation, and that reputation is context-sensitive.

For example, if Village A really hates Village B, and you've led a successful attack against Village B, then you're probably a hero in Village A, a hated foe in Village B, and in Village C that is unconnected to the conflict, they might not even know or care who you are. How does that translate into a numerical Enech?

I also think that this broader "reputation" is more of a persistent stat than something like HP-- like where you get into a fight, you lose HP, and you recover and they get better. Like, it seems like we're talking more about a maximum level of Enech rather than something that gets temporarily reduced when you get into a social conflict or whatnot. (Which may be one way of handling it, then it'd work like FATE's stress boxes where it gets reset at the beginning of every conflict)

The first two paragraphs were addressed pretty well by Steerpike, so I at the moment refer to his answer for that.  Though I am thinking that it might not actually be a problem if Honor is context-sensitive.  It fosters a degree of ties to a character's homeland.  When you go elsewhere, you may have to prove yourself again (or get a fresh start).

In response to paragraph 3: You know you are right, and thank you for reminding me of that.  I did want to be a more real "HIT POINT" gauge. So in that sense, I am thinking that Enech needs to have a way of take temporary damage.  A contest of insults could result in each person dealing Enech "damage" to the other.  This will go away over time (probably not IMMEDIATELY, but over a period of days or at most weeks).  The events that we described: the MAJOR actions that make or break you as an honorable person are the things that change your Max Enech, but are not the same as losing and healing "Enech Points" in the same way you lose HP. 

I am totally willing to go with Steerpike's suggestion of the choice between rolling and taking a flat +3, at least for the time being.

That's essentially just saying some people always roll a 3. It doesn't actually solve any of the issues with rolled HP.

Then, what exactly IS the issue with rolled HP?

[sparkletwist]

Then, what exactly IS the issue with rolled HP?

The issue is that it's unbalancing in a way that adds nothing to the game. That is to say, you could build two identical characters, but Character A rolls a 6 for HP and Character B rolls a 1. Character A is just objectively better than Character B, and not even in a way that adds any depth or roleplaying diversity. That makes the game harder to balance (you can't be sure what "being level X" even means) and can lead to player frustration as their characters become less capable through absolutely no fault of their own.

I don't think the detrimental effect to the game is worth it at all just to indulge some people's desire to gamble. Attack and damage rolls add enough of a luck element.

[SA]

I'm not sure if it's been covered yet, but has there been any thought regarding honour as an excplicitly metaphysical quality? That is, it means the same thing anywhere and in every context because it is a measure not of social esteem but of cosmic rectitude?

[Seraph]

Then, what exactly IS the issue with rolled HP?

The issue is that it's unbalancing in a way that adds nothing to the game. That is to say, you could build two identical characters, but Character A rolls a 6 for HP and Character B rolls a 1. Character A is just objectively better than Character B, and not even in a way that adds any depth or roleplaying diversity. That makes the game harder to balance (you can't be sure what "being level X" even means) and can lead to player frustration as their characters become less capable through absolutely no fault of their own.

I don't think the detrimental effect to the game is worth it at all just to indulge some people's desire to gamble. Attack and damage rolls add enough of a luck element.

Ok, I see where you are coming from but it does not feel like as big a problem as you make it out to be.  As Steerpike pointed out, some people actually like it.  If one person rolled all 1s, then they would have 11 HP when they maxed out Fortitude.  Next to someone who rolled all 6s, to a result of 36, yes, that sucks.  However, most characters would have between 21 and 26 HP when Fortitude was maxed out.

Granted, the "some people are more resilient than others" could also be a matter of how many points you have in Fortitude, and if something more was needed, a trait of some kind.  And I'm still not necessarily opposed to having HP advancement be more uniform.  Having all characters gain 3 HP per point of Fortitude could work fine for me.

[HippopotamusDundee]

I'm not sure if it's been covered yet, but has there been any thought regarding honour as an excplicitly metaphysical quality? That is, it means the same thing anywhere and in every context because it is a measure not of social esteem but of cosmic rectitude?

I like this very very much.

[Seraph]

I'm not sure if it's been covered yet, but has there been any thought regarding honour as an excplicitly metaphysical quality? That is, it means the same thing anywhere and in every context because it is a measure not of social esteem but of cosmic rectitude?

I like this very very much.

Ok, this is very interesting.  There certainly are metaphysical underpinnings and implications of Enech, so having it actually be a measurement of cosmic virtue would be an interesting way of reflecting that.  It would still reflect your deeds, but would take them into account whether anyone saw them or not.  So, if this was the case, would Enech still have any social meaning?  Would it be that everyone intrinsically knows this person to be honorable because of some Aura they can sense?

Would Cosmic Enech still be applicable as social HP, and just have a metaphysical SOURCE?  What would that mean if someone's insults could wear down your cosmic standing?  It seems rather strange for that to be possible.  Would this mind of metaphysical honor then be not something connected to society at all, but instead to your own soul and spirit?  An interesting thought, and it could have some interesting effects when it comes to game mechanics, but this would be starting to stray a bit far from the original concept, I think.

[HippopotamusDundee]

I'm not sure if it's been covered yet, but has there been any thought regarding honour as an excplicitly metaphysical quality? That is, it means the same thing anywhere and in every context because it is a measure not of social esteem but of cosmic rectitude?

I like this very very much.

So, if this was the case, would Enech still have any social meaning?  Would it be that everyone intrinsically knows this person to be honorable because of some Aura they can sense?

I would recommend that the songs of the Bards are what tells Ogma (or whoever else) of the value of the deeds of great men (possibly the animate spirits of the mortal world assist) and that this standing and these great deeds are then writ large in Ogham runes across the sky (or whatever else) where they can then be read by druids, intuited by witches, sensed as inspiration by other Bards etc. wherever you go in the world. But this is not a perfect system and while your base Enech score represents your cosmic standing, your score at any given moment represents how you are perceived in the mortal world - that is, how accurate a gauge of your standing that the bards and seers have given and how that has been affected by public opinion through insults or honourable deeds.

But this is just a suggestion.

Would Cosmic Enech still be applicable as social HP, and just have a metaphysical SOURCE?  What would that mean if someone's insults could wear down your cosmic standing?

Someone's insults would not be wearing down your cosmic standing so much as by letting someone dishonour you and your gods-given reputation in that way you would be damaging your own cosmic standing with your cowardice and silence.

[LD]

>> However, most characters would have between 21 and 26 HP when Fortitude was maxed out.

Most players I know would just re-roll.

Count me in Sparkletwists' column- randomization in battle rolls is fine; randomization in HP and statistics can be crippling- it lasts from session to session to session to session... until the character is dead...which thankfully will come sooner rather than later.

[SA]

Someone's insults would not be wearing down your cosmic standing so much as by letting someone dishonour you and your gods-given reputation in that way you would be damaging your own cosmic standing with your cowardice and silence.

That's what I was thinking. I imagined honour as your deeds reflected in your manner and bearing. Scoundrels might disguise their low honour with deceit or, if that would be too powerful, attempt to explain how their apparent cravenness is in fact nothing of the sort.

randomization in HP and statistics can be crippling- it lasts from session to session to session to session... until the character is dead...which thankfully will come sooner rather than later.

Pretty much this. Don't do it man.

[Seraph]

Ok, so pretty much everyone wants to do away with HP randomization.  So.  If I had 6 be the base, and added 3 HP per level of fortitude, that would be an HP progression of 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21.  Having the final maximum HP be 21 kinda ircs my mild OCD tendencies though.  It's so close to 20 that I would rather the max just be 20, but that would mean shortchanging the last level.

An alternative would be to have the base HP instead be 10 instead of 6, and have each level of Fortitude grant an extra 2.  Fort would be less powerful, but would evenly progress 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20.  And there could be some appeal in saying that someone who works really hard at is can take twice as much strain as a normal person.

Of course, if I started at 10 and still went up by threes it would end at 25 which is a nice number too.  And if it went up by 4 each time, it would end at 30, which for characters of potentially mythic stature might be better.  Have them be three times as tough as a normal person instead of just twice as tough. 

I could do the "based on what kind of game it is" thing and leave it up to the GM how much each level gives.  Like if they want to run a fae-themed horror game, have each level only add 1, whereas epic adventure gives the full base HP total for each level.  (6, 12, 18... or 10, 20, 30...)  I am not sure if I want it to be THAT level of open-ended or not.

[Steerpike]

I could do the "based on what kind of game it is" thing and leave it up to the GM how much each level gives.  Like if they want to run a fae-themed horror game, have each level only add 1, whereas epic adventure gives the full base HP total for each level.

I like this idea quite a bit.  For the record, I'm not some huge fan of randomized HP or anything - just thought I'd provide an alternative.

[Ghostman]

Changing the value based on the type of game/group preferences would also alter the relative worth of Fortitude vis-a-vis other skills. Whether that would be a problem or not is another matter though - the usefulness of all skills will inevitably fluctuate based on what sort of challenges the PCs are going to face, after all.

[sparkletwist]

Shortchanging the last level exclusively probably isn't the best idea, but you could have some sort of diminishing returns if you want to encourage skill diversity. FATE sort of does this with its stress boxes. What if fortitude levels mapped to HP like this:

0 levels = 6 HP
1 level = 10 HP
2 levels = 13 HP
3 levels = 16 HP
4 levels = 18 HP
5 levels = 20 HP

[Seraph]

Shortchanging the last level exclusively probably isn't the best idea, but you could have some sort of diminishing returns if you want to encourage skill diversity. FATE sort of does this with its stress boxes. What if fortitude levels mapped to HP like this:

0 levels = 6 HP
1 level = 10 HP
2 levels = 13 HP
3 levels = 16 HP
4 levels = 18 HP
5 levels = 20 HP

Interesting idea.  I will consider this.

While we are somewhat on the subject, what would people think if, rather than in Q&D where you can just put as many points as you want into what you want right from the get go, what if it was a bit more like D&D, and had a max starting "ranks" per skill.  Now, in this scenario it would still be a lot more open ended than D&D because, lacking a true "level" system as such, you could just put points into skills as you acquired them from experience.  If you want to put 2 points into Craft in a row, rather than spread them out, that's fine; but there will be other things you won't be able to do as well in the mean time.

[Seraph]

Enech
[ic]The circle of farseers sit before their black scrying bowls amid the ring of ancient stones.  The runes carved ages ago into the face of the rock glow slightly with the pulse of the earth.  The seers hum and chant, swaying as they gaze into their bowls.  The image of a hero appears, leaping across a moat to rescue the trapped inhabitants of the castle.  The farseers nod to one another, and sing the song of his deed.  Blue patterns snake across his skin, marking his flesh with the tale of his actions.[/ic][note][/note]
The bards say that the world was constructed from the thoughts of the gods in a song of runes, and that its essence was pure spirit made solid.  Whatever it's prima materia, however, the mortal realm of Abred is built on deeds and legends.  They shape the word, and give it meaning, bringing it to life.  Enech measures one's spiritual power in a world where truth and honor are paramount.  Lies, cowardice, and cheating leave their mark upon one's soul, as do generosity, noble bearing, and steadfastness.  

People in the Gaedhelic Isles undergo an initation ritual at their coming-of-age, wherein they bind their physical bodies to their enech.  Superficial wounds will never leave scars on one with sufficient enech, but instead upon the completion of deeds, they will be marked with a kind of magical tattoo by the farseers of the realm that proclaims to all who see it the worth of it's bearer.  The body just heals better when one thusly bound is injured.  Maimings, decapitations, and other killing blows are not prevented by this effect.  One with especially incredible enech may be covered from head to toe in the designs.  Many heroes choose not to obscure their markings with armor or cloth, often going semi-, or even fully nude to completely display their Enech and their deeds.  Heroes of both genders are known to do this, even in battle.  

Contrasting with the mystic tattoos of the honorable are the scars and welts of the disgraced.  Those with no enech, or negative enech, find themselves covered with patterns of scars, revealing to everyone the crimes of the villain.  

Enech points are gained by performing great deeds.  They reflect your bravery, honor, and largess, and they affect you character in multiple ways.  It represents your social standing, your reputation, functions as a kind of "social hit points" gauge, and is a source of spiritual power.  Your enech score, though it can change over time, largely remains a constant which follows you wherever you go, and is reflected on your person in the form of magical blue tattoos.  These can be "read" by someone with sufficient occult skill (often a bard or druid) and thus spread around wherever you go, allowing your reputation to travel with you.  This score can provide bonuses to social interactions.  Functioning as spiritual/social hit points, you may take enech "damage" in the form of stress which results in temporary social repercussions.  Someone who simply loses a social contest (thereby looking inferior) would take temporary stress to their enech, but this would be recovered easily with a day's rest (and removal from people).  More serious issues result from being reduced to 0 by stress.  In this case the target can become a laughing stock, and permanently lose enech, or may be stripped of titles and offices with enech requirements.  

A strong Enech, however, also has other benefits.  Fostering your righteousness and honor provides noticeable power.  Such figures display a kind of radiant power, which seems to allow them to channel the magical energies of the world into fantastic abilities.  For some, these are spells, for others, they take the form of incredible feats of arms, strength, or athleticism.  Each Enech point can be spent to channel an ability you possess.  Multiple points can be used at once to fuel more powerful abilities.  

Uses of EP

• Dance on Spear Tips: You spring across the battlefield on the tips of your enemies' spears, unhindered and unharmed, to reach your goal
• The Ricochet Shot: You can strike several enemies with a single sling stone, causing it to ricochet between them.
• The Song of Laughter: A roomful of subjects are reduced to helpless cackling for several minutes.  One of a bard's runesongs.
• Steal the Heart of Courage: Fear washes over a group of enemies, and robs them of the will to fight.  Druid Spell.
• Snatch breath: Your awen spirit steals away the breathing of an enemy, causing them to suffocate as long as you maintain concentration.  Witch power.

Possible Consequences of Enech "Knockout"

• Ridicule (permanent EP loss)
• Embarrassing nickname (can be something hateful or just demeaning)
• Enslaved (if permanent Enech reduced to 0)
• Outcast (if permanent enech falls below 0)
• Loss of offices and titles
• Glam Dicin (essentially excommunication)

[ooc]I would be glad to hear input on this model.  Will edit this soon to include a table that lists the effects of higher and lower enech.  Anything I forgot to talk about?  Anything that sounds like it doesn't work?  General comments?[/ooc]