Sparkletwist's Impolite Setting Reviews - The Returned Return Returns

[sparkletwist]

This is something of an annual tradition, it seems. But since a lot of new stuff is being posted lately, I'll start another of these threads.  :grin:

One of the common statements I've seen around here is "we need more setting reviews." Well, it's true. I've tried to contribute here and there to this reviewing process, but it's not always easy to come up with something worthwhile to say. I'll admit that often it was because I, in the interests of politeness and harmony, discounted anything negative from "worthwhile." However, I've decided on a new approach: I'm not even going to try any more.

Lest any lynch mobs form, I will keep this an opt-in process.

Therefore, I now offer...
Sparkletwist's Impolite Setting Reviews!

Essentially, what I am offering is a pull-no-punches review of your setting. I don't expect to be overtly rude, so the title is a bit of a joke, but also a bit of a cautionary statement. I'm not going to needlessly insult anyone or anything nasty like that, and jokes about the questionable ancestry of one's mother are strictly off-limits-- but I'm going to abandon notions like "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." I will try to keep the criticism constructive, but if your ego is bruised easily, please pass this one by. I will not get into any e-fights over this.

Anyone interested? The sign-up sheet starts below!

[Xathan]

I want an impolite review! For Keldora, of course. Just give me a little bit until I can add another content post so you have some new material to review, which I will hopefully have tonight - just wanted to reserve a spot. :P

EDIT: Are we limited to one impolite review per setting, or can we get a second one after we expand further and hopefully make improvements based on the first one? Because if we can get multiple, I'm ready for my beatdown. If we can't, or you'd prefer one person didn't suck up too much of your time, I'll wait a few days to add some more stuff I'm mulling over so it can all be torn to shreds in one fell swoop.

EDIT 2: Actually, belay that. I'm gonna get some more stuff in there for you to chew over and make some changes based on Xeviat's review before I ask for impolite. :P

[sparkletwist]

Ok, I will hold off. Let me know when you want a review.

Anyone else? :grin:

[Seraph]

This sounds exciting; I wish I had something new for you.  As it is, I think you've gone over everything of mine more than once.

[Ghostman]

Pardon my thread necromancy, but is this offer still valid? If it is then I'd appreciate some impoliteness directed at Paragon :grin:

[sparkletwist]

Sure thing. :)

Let me start off by saying that I like the premise, and I also liked the imagery conjured up by your opening piece of fiction. Badass action heroes doing awesome stuff is definitely something I'm quite on board with; my own setting, Asura, has a similar feel to it in some ways. I can definitely see the inspiration from Exalted, too, the motif of heroes trying to rise up in a world in decline, the flat world without any heed paid to real physics, and so on. I get this magical and mythical vibe to everything, the idea that this world isn't making any pretenses towards "realism," and that's fine, because it's supposed to be awesome and fantastic and a vehicle for telling awesome fantasy stories. So far so good.

However, since this is supposed to be an impolite review, let me stop with the complimenting and cut to what I find to be this setting's biggest flaw: the absolutely crushing amount of determinism.

A paragon is born a paragon, a caste above the mere groundlings, and a paragon always ends up joining the Paragon Order rather than having any choice of any other career. I rather like the "class" structure you've created with the paths, but by making them inborn and inherent and immutable, not only is it predetermined that they're going to be a paragon, it's predetermined just what kind of paragon they're going to be, too. While none of this really matters from a gaming context, because players are going to be paragons and they have their choice of class and whatever, I think it has some fairly important ramifications for the setting, because the characters have basically no choice. The angsty character who was born and bred to be a Paragon but isn't sure if this is the right calling for him is a nice idea to have once or twice, but what you have here is basically a conscript army with a lifetime term of service, and that's going to breed a lot of malcontents. Only, I guess it doesn't, because apparently they never go rogue because they live in a very lawful society and value harmony highly, or something.

There also doesn't seem to be any chance for anybody to earn their way (or even just randomly rise up due to a radioactive spider bite or something) into the ranks of the paragons. And that's unfortunate, because the unlikely hero is fertile ground for character concepts and can often lead to some really cool and really creative characters, especially when placed next to the more traditional types for contrast. It doesn't seem like it can happen here. I mean, there may be exceptional circumstances, but you didn't talk about it, so I don't know. Life for the common people seems to be kind of a crapsack anyway, given that it's basically medieval and they don't have any popular representation since they are ruled from floating castles by literal übermenschen.

I'm also not sure how the world stays so unexplored when having a big floating island would be a pretty good vantage point for making a map-- unless the people who own the floating islands just pretty much don't care about what goes on down on the ground. Which might be it, actually. The Paragon Order has apparently done a pretty good job of presiding over the decline of civilization and has made no significant advancements in magic, technology, magi-tech, or whatever. They have no idea how to fix the exgate network. There is an "ongoing drive" to explore the world but with all their abilities and floating castles and whatever, they haven't done much; it seems like they'd rather sit up there and rule over the little people and collect tributes. They can't keep roving bandits at bay, let alone the undead. It feels like a giant and mostly useless bureaucracy, and player characters-- who are going to want to be movers and shakers, especially in a setting like this!-- are supposed to be entrenched in it and loyal to it from childhood. Contrast this to Exalted, where the Dragon-Blooded and the Sidereals are the ones who had been running the ship of state aground, while in contrast the player characters were (originally) supposed to be Solar Exalted coming back to shake things up. There doesn't seem to be a similar way for players to shake things up in Paragon, especially with the strong disincentive to go against the Paragon Order.

I wanted to like this. I really did. I still do dig the premise, and the imagery conjured is pretty awesome. However, it seems like it has some real problems trying to give it any thought as anything other than a fun little beer and pretzels game where you go out there and bash monsters with a magic sword-- and you've done enough cool world-building it seems a shame to reduce this game to that.

[LoA]

Might I make a request?

Could you make polite pointers about some of the things I'm working on in Panorah?

1. What would be essential lore for this setting, and how much history and background should I develop for this setting? How much would be overkill?

2. I need to organize the information in my posts a lot better. How would you like to see it organized?

3. I have a hierarchy of races in this settiing. Sinister races, heroic races, and the common races. Common races aren't that great and just don't have heroic potential (Hedgehogs, moles, rabbits, etc), sinister races who are generally vile and horrid (rats, stoats, weasels, foxes, etc), and heroic races who have the potential to become great heroes (Mice, squirrels, hares, badgers etc). Is this a good way of dealing with not wanting to stat every little race imaginable?

Once I've got a solid setting posted, I will take the rite of passage, and receive and impolite setting review.

[Steerpike]

Could you make polite pointers about some of the things I'm working on in Panorah?

Do you mean impolite? It's kind of sprakletwist's thing here.

[sparkletwist]

Could you make polite pointers about some of the things I'm working on in Panorah?

No. :P

Seriously, though. The point of this thread is not really to be impolite as such, and it isn't some hazing ritual. Rather, my goal was to prioritize honest critique over being nice.

[LoA]

Could you make polite pointers about some of the things I'm working on in Panorah?

No. :P

Seriously, though. The point of this thread is not really to be impolite as such, and it isn't some hazing ritual. Rather, my goal was to prioritize honest critique over being nice.

Alright fair enough. How about an impolite review of what I have so far?

[sparkletwist]

For the moment I'll answer your three questions, and I'll try to delve more into it later.

What would be essential lore for this setting, and how much history and background should I develop for this setting? How much would be overkill?

"Small talking animal fantasy" conjures a lot of images, so the most important thing to me is to narrow down what sort of small talking animal fantasy it is and isn't. Do the animals mostly get along, or is there a lot of fighting? To what degree are their behaviors anthropomorphized? Do they have opposable thumbs? Do they engage in agriculture? Stuff like that.

A lot of history and background are of secondary importance to the way things are now, I think. What does it feel like to be a character in this setting? What kind of things would you see? What facts would you know? What goals would you have?

I need to organize the information in my posts a lot better. How would you like to see it organized?

A basic overview of what the setting is like, then some details on the individual races, factions, locations, and other important information. A glossary of any terms you've coined would also be great.

I have a hierarchy of races in this settiing. Sinister races, heroic races, and the common races. Common races aren't that great and just don't have heroic potential (Hedgehogs, moles, rabbits, etc), sinister races who are generally vile and horrid (rats, stoats, weasels, foxes, etc), and heroic races who have the potential to become great heroes (Mice, squirrels, hares, badgers etc). Is this a good way of dealing with not wanting to stat every little race imaginable?

While I understand not wanting to stat every race imaginable, I dislike determinism. Saying some races just don't have heroic potential and others are just plain evil just closes off options to players and makes the setting more one-dimensional, and I don't see the use of that. "Always evil" races are no good in humanoid-centric fantasy and I don't think these animals should get away with it either.

[LoA]

I have a hierarchy of races in this settiing. Sinister races, heroic races, and the common races. Common races aren't that great and just don't have heroic potential (Hedgehogs, moles, rabbits, etc), sinister races who are generally vile and horrid (rats, stoats, weasels, foxes, etc), and heroic races who have the potential to become great heroes (Mice, squirrels, hares, badgers etc). Is this a good way of dealing with not wanting to stat every little race imaginable?

While I understand not wanting to stat every race imaginable, I dislike determinism. Saying some races just don't have heroic potential and others are just plain evil just closes off options to players and makes the setting more one-dimensional, and I don't see the use of that. "Always evil" races are no good in humanoid-centric fantasy and I don't think these animals should get away with it either.

Okay fair enough. Instead of trying to stat a ton of races, do you think I should just say that only a few small woodland creatures evolved sentience? Like let's say 10?

[Kindling]

Now I want to make a new setting just so I can get impolitely reviewed...

[sparkletwist]

How about an impolite review of what I have so far?

The big thing that stands out to me is editing. Stuff that is posted to the CBG doesn't have to be polished to a literary standard, of course, but you should at least spell check ("astoot"? Seriously?) and you really need to learn how to properly use their, there, and they're.

Instead of trying to stat a ton of races, do you think I should just say that only a few small woodland creatures evolved sentience? Like let's say 10?

The thing about D&D (and PF, and whatever) is it seems like new races pop out of the woodwork all the time. You could always just stat up a few races that you find interesting and are likely to become PCs or important NPCs initially, and then just come up with the stats for the other races as time goes on. They're still sentient, they're still out there, but they just don't need stats until they interact with the story in a significant fashion.

[Gilladian]

I'd love a quick, impolite review of my campaign: http://vishteercampaign.pbworks.com/w/page/10036275/FrontPage
However, it is massive (30+ years old) and I'd never expect you to read the whole thing.

Anything you want to read and comment on would be great!