The Republic Reborn II: Reborn Again [Orders Due Jan 31]

[Nomadic]

[ic=Before the Senate]
I likewise support Senator de Vinti's proposal and once again praise his honorable contribution to Roman law. I am also of a like mind that the choice of these judges should be done with caution and wisdom. The proffered system seems to pay proper mind to this. As to the senatorial system I indeed see the value of en electoral system (indeed if you will recall it was what I originally intended when I first proposed the codification). I am not sure that I can support the currently proposed system, yet there is still merit to the idea itself. Perhaps at some point soon we can further discuss how such a system might be made reasonable to all involved parties within this curia.
[/ic]

[Polycarp]

[ooc=Due Date]Please post your orders for the next season by Thursday, March 26th.  Let me know if you require additional time.[/ooc]

For the time being, I'm not going to post another Senate response to allow other players to comment on the electoral/judicial proposals if they want.  I will, however, comment on the OOC judicial proposal that Magnus Pym made.

I'm not interested in introducing a new complex system for judge selection, so Pym's proposal that players can just submit a few general preferences is fine.  If you guys are supportive of that idea (OOC as well as IC), I'm happy to take posted preferences into consideration when a legal issue comes up.

As for the details of the proposal:

The Senate elects 6 giudici from the body of the Senate.
The Lesser Council elects 3 giudici from the body of the Senate.
The consuls elect a primo giudice from the body of the Senate.

I have no problem with a single judge being chosen by the consuls if that's what the PCs vote for, and I don't have any issue with that selected person being one of the PCs either; I've always said that the mechanics of the senate are up to the players, and that the players are welcome to make more PC senatorial offices with other responsibilities if they want to.

As I told Pym in chat, however, the differentiation between "judges elected by the Lesser Council" and "judges elected by the Senate" doesn't really make sense in the context of how Republic Reborn functions.  To explain:

The basic assumption of the "NPC Senate" in RR is that, in most cases, it follows the will of the PCs.  Lesser Council members are assumed to be powerful, influential people who lead or at least dominate a certain "faction" in the Senate, the size of which is indicated by their influence stat.  This is why, for instance, consuls are elected by the PCs, even though the election is held in the senate at large.  The NPC Senate only gains a "will" of its own when action is proposed which clearly harms their interests or offends their sensibilities.  Sometimes, a majority of PCs working together are sufficient to override this "senatorial will," and sometimes a unanimous or near-unanimous PC decision is necessary to do that, depending on how badly the senate's interests are threatened.  In most matters, however, I prefer to give the players all the agency, and the NPC Senate essentially does what their PC leaders ask.

Thus, it doesn't make a lot of sense for some judges to be elected "only" by the Senate while some are elected "only" by the LC, because in this game, the will of the LC is generally assumed to be the will of the Senate.  It would be strange if the PCs were able to get the senate to vote for the consuls they wanted, but somehow unable to get the senate to vote for the judges they wanted.  In other words, based on the way this game works, there's no practical difference between choosing judges with the senate and choosing judges with the LC directly.

My recommendation to Magnus Pym, which he agreed with, was therefore to edit his earlier IC speech and OOC proposal to merge those two categories of judges.  I offered to give a little explanatory note so you wouldn't wonder why he just suddenly changed his post. :)

[LD]

[OOC=Orders]

Armies
-1 WP Upkeep

FORGE MILL:
-20 Palatini defend Forge Mill. Two act as runners to bring assistance in case there is a threat. Also, raise flag if threatened.

PATROL:
-20 Palatini (on patrol through through my holdings in X, XI, XII. Patrol ones will respond to unrest in my districts and will send a runner for assistance to Senator Basile and DeVinti; if the disturbance is an another district where I do not have interests, then just give me an intra turn PM, please.) Patrol will also respond to reinforce my home if necessary. If my home is assaulted, send a runner to Basile and DeVinti. If someone else is assaulted, please PM me. Patrol will respond to disturbances at the Forge Mill, if necessary.

MANZINNI VILLA:
-10 Palatini (or the balance remaining of Palatini, if I miscounted) at or near home. Half of these Palatini will respond to disturbances at the Forge Mill, if necessary.
-All Masnada at home. Raise flag if threatened.

Notes
Due to forge mill bonus, my masnada are considered armored.

Bonus:  If you own at least one Forge Mill, upkeep for armored soldiers is reduced by 1 WP for every 3 WP in upkeep you pay (that is, reduced by 33%).  Your 25 free masnada are also considered armored at no extra cost to you.  In addition, for each Forge Mill you own, you can equip up to 100 soldiers with armor in a single season; normally, producing that amount of armor can take up to a year.  You may "lend" this last ability to other players who are raising armored forces.

Construction/Purchases

Ongoing Projects
- The improved tables for gambling project.
- The tavern investment that was made of 4 WP.


Inquiries

- Ask around to see what noble families may be interested in a match. M's assumption is that a dowry will need to be around 2 WP, but if possible, feel out the going rate for marriage to a minor noble, like the Anguillara or a noble house with interests in Vineyards (One possibility is, as I understand, it is difficult to acquire land for vineyards- If I have a relative with vineyards, perhaps that could make the matter more simple). If the Colonna or Pierleone families have any close relatives who may be interested in match, see if that is possible although Manzinni realizes that is likely beyond possibility due to the Colonnas' estrangement with Rome and the Pierleone's growing power. He would plan to throw an exquisite party at his house of at least 1 WP.

Council
* Support the Judicial Proposal
* Support the Viterbo/War/Road Proposals that were discussed

Policy
* Neutrality in the Northern Conflict unless the siutation is forced, in which case- Imperial.


Total Expected Expenditures
1 WP+12 WP= 13 WP

And please build the following- as I understand it should earn its income in Autumn, so I will gain income next turn? If not, please let me know.

Wine Press (Rural, Manufacturing)
The process of grape pressing – formerly done by treading on the grapes, the way some peasants still do it – was vastly improved in speed and quality by the invention of the "basket press," a barrel-like apparatus with a descending weight often driven by a crank-turned screw.  In addition to making and selling his own wine, a press owner can also charge fees to peasants who are willing to pay to have their grapes processed.
Cost: 12
Income: +2 during Autumn; additional +1 in Autumn with a Vineyard (maximum 2).

[spoiler=Next]
Taberna 6 WP (Converting the acquired land) (Orig. cost 12 WP; spent 4WP to acquire the land at cut-rate prices; Comments were made that the enterprise may thus be slightly cheaper, but no price was given so I estimated a 2 WP cut)
=7 WP[/spoiler]

[/ooc]

[TheMeanestGuest]

I just felt like writing this. So anyways, I guess Basile is writing a book - pending Polycarp's approval. His inspirations stem from contemporary events and his own life, and probably primarily Ovid's Metamorphoses along with other bits of classical literature. There's also obviously some Divine Comedy here, though it hasn't been written yet. Basile is just ahead of his time, I suppose. Here's the introduction to Basile's (His) Many Guises - or maybe only something like the introduction, as I don't actually know how Basile would write. Or if I did I probably wouldn't be able to replicate it.

[ic=(His) Many Guises]His name was John. His father had given him this name to honour the Apostle, and with hope that it would inspire his son to Godly deeds. John had lived a good life, and lay now on his deathbed with his family about him. His wife Adriana held his hand in hers as tears rolled down her cheeks, and there too were his three sons and two daughters. The priest blessed him with holy verse and incense. John thought of all the good works he had done in his life. He had laboured to the utmost of his ability, and he had considered wisely every matter that came to him, and so he had made himself rich. No man would have faulted him were he to enjoy the fortune he had gained thereby, but he kept it not for himself. He gave freely of it to the deserving and the needy. He had endowed many churches, and they were fine to behold. Not a single place at his dinner table had ever sat empty, for he had always invited the hungry into his house to sup with him. He had walked on bare feet to Jerusalem to humble himself before God, and there in that Holy City he found in his heart forgiveness for each man who had ever wronged him. But as he lay there - his brow hot and his body wracked with sweat and tremor - he felt only fear.

His heart was not warmed by his wife or by his children, and the words of the priest were hollow and empty to his ears. In his mind's eye he recalled only a single memory. A secret memory, his greatest sin. Over and over again he saw it, and he was tormented: A warm summer's day, and he was strong and hale with the vigour of youth. He sat in a field beneath the shade of an olive tree. Beside him sat James, who was his best companion. They laughed together, he knew, but no longer could John recall what joke might have there been told. He remembered best the olives of the tree, round and full and black. He had never seen such a bounty of fruit before, and he had never seen such since in all his living days. James took some down, and they shared them together, and the flesh was sweet and filling. They ate in amiable silence until James made a confession to his friend, of his love for the maiden Adriana, and of the smiles and glances they had shared. He asked John for his advice, knowing him to be his truest friend. But John grew angry. He too loved Adriana, he declared. The friends soon quarrelled, first with words, but then with fists. John struck James upon his crown with a rock, and James fell to the ground. How had the stone come to his hand? John knew not, and he looked on the still form of his friend, and he looked on the blood that marred his hands. He threw down the rock, and he ran from that olive tree. There are some deeds, though, that a man cannot escape.

He stood on sand, and there was clamour and smoke about him. It was hot, and the fire was no longer within him, but in the air itself. The murderer's rock had returned to his hand, and it dripped fresh crimson. He jumped as if bitten, and it tumbled from his fingers. "Welcome!" a voice cried out, booming with power and with joy. "Welcome sinners all! To Amor! To my city of the first deadly sin." John looked up then, and he was roused by the horrors that he saw. He stood in a vast arena, shoulder to shoulder with countless others. The seats were thronged with a cheering and groaning crowd, a rapt and captive audience. They cheered for those come to join them in misery, and they groaned for the fires that washed over them and around. There was a great podium there and on it stood a man of dark and terrible countenance. It was his voice that carried in the theatre, that demanded John's attention.  

"I have deceived you all, each and every one. This is my pleasure, that you should join us in our torments! So be welcome, sinners, for you are in Hell!" the dark man said, and so John knew that this figure was Lucifer, the Devil himself. "I have turned you from God as I have turned many others alike. Gaze now on my many guises and know the depths of my loathing." the Devil changed then as he spoke, and he was no longer the Devil, but a colossal and menacing serpent. "It was I, serpent and dragon, who tempted Eve with wisdom's fruit. And so the fall of man from God's perfection." The serpent quavered then, and the Devil was a dark-haired Grecian woman, beautiful and tall. "I am Aphrodite, and it was I who brought the Greeks and Trojans to their ruin. I could not abide two peoples so great to live in any harmony." He turned into an owl then, wide-eyed and grey. "For the love of Athens did Alcibiades betray his city, and I led him to it. I could not abide such liberty among men." He changed again, and now upon the stage was a golden lyre. It plucked its own strings, and the sound was sweet and sonorous. "Here I am a golden lyre. Just so did I beguile the Emperor Nero, and just so did Rome burn. I could not abide a city so grand as that." Once more did he change for all, and the Devil now seemed as the Angel Gabriel, graceful and with a beatific smile on his face. "I could not abide the glory of the Christians, for above all others it is they that I despise. I made a false prophet of Mahound, and so did I set a curse upon them. Now behold you sinners, behold now in your eyes how I twisted the love of your hearts, behold how I cut you away from God!" the Devil cried. All gathered there in the arena groaned together, for each saw the instrument of his own deception. There on the stage John saw an olive tree, and he saw its black and glossy fruit, and he smelled the olive scent as it drifted on a hot and smokey wind. And so he joined his voice to conflagration.[/ic]

[ooc=In the City of Lust]- In Hell it is not demons who meet punishment on men, but men themselves. In Amor there is a Senate that meets each day to determine how best to torment the people, and they deliberate while others scourge them with whips. Outside the Senate House there is a forum, and each day the people meet there in a great throng, and they decide how best to torment the Senators while stinging shards of ice rain down on them. In this way all sinners work the Devil's design.

- It is never explicitly stated but can be assumed by John's perspective and dialogue that he is of the wealthy urban class, possibly but not necessarily a noble.

- Amor is ruled by an unholy pontiff, who sits a throne at the top of a tall and twisting spire. Mahound is the Devil's Pope, and it is his duty to visit greater punishments on the people than they visit on themselves. There is a single burning needle in the cushions of Mahound's throne that he can never find, and it stabs into him each day so that he is unable to sit comfortably. Julian the Apostate features briefly as Mahound's footstool. Amor lies in the country Misery, which is ruled by the Devil's captain Baal. Mahound and Baal incessantly war over the country and over its authority - much to the Devil's delight.

- The story is ultimately about good works and the nature of faith, and how despite his deeds in life John's fear and consequent lack of faith bound him to Hell. John sees many strange things in Hell, and eventually through his experiences rejects his punishment and renews his faith. He leads a revolution in Amor - casting down Baal and Mahound both with the aid of the tragic heroes Oedipus and Narcissus - and raises a cross on Mahound's tower. In the end he is redeemed and carried up to Heaven. Yay!

- The (His) in the book title is bracketed because there will be a discrepancy between any copies that are ever made. This is because Basile will make two copies himself, one with His and one without.[/ooc]

[LD]

[ic=Inner Council]
War
Your clarifications regarding your choice of route to influence are appreciated, Senator DeVinti. I insist that if one road must be chosen, the road to the west by strategic value alone is the better course. If there are diplomatic reasons to choose otherwise and to believe that the Viterbesi prefer the road you suggest, I nod my head in acknowledgement at those considerations, but barring those considerations-- the route I suggest is superior.

Justice
And if the two consuls differ on a choice for primo guidice, what then, Senator? Would the seat sit vacant?

And what of the semblance that justice is being done if the popolo know that certain Senatorial giudice are often overriding the scholars' recommendations. In the long term, a senator can be removed from the guidice or even from the senate, but in the short term, how are we to suffer the mob's protestations against injustice? Will we address that matter as it arises, or will we codify a solution?

[/ic]

[Magnus Pym]

[ic=Before the Lesser Council]These are valid concerns, Senator Manzinni. To answer your first I shall say only that what is important is who we make as allies and not which road we follow. With both Viterbesi and Nepi into the Victorian fold, Anguillara and Formello will follow suit and Castel Brachiant is likely to do the same, thus securing both roads. If Viterbo and Nepi are secured, it's possible for us to work on converting Sutri. In any case, the Senate will benefit from a break of the Faliscan League. Therefore, we should spend time on this endeavour instead of courting the lord of Castel Brachiant.

As for your second concern, I have faith that any two consuls can decide on a primo giudice harmoniously. If not, then our choice of consuls was wrong in the first place! Also, while the result you propose is likely to be the opposite of what will happen, it deserves attention still. If the giudici neglect the use of legal expertise and indulge in tyrannical behavior, then the Senate must hold a public session in the courts. I guarantee that any sitting senator, if they have an ounce of intelligence in them, will work diligently to avoid such a shame.

I've drafted a chart and it reads as follow:

[spoiler=The Selection Of The Giudici, And Their Duty]

• In Autumn, after the consular election, the Senate will appoint ten senators of good repute to become giudice for a year. The first to be chosen will be elected by the consuls. He will be primo giudice. The nine remaining positions will be filled by the choices of the Senate at large. They will be the giudici.
• The primo giudice will sit mainly on trials of prime importance that usually would have been dealt with by the consuls themselves, but for which the consuls can't make themselves available to render judgment.
• The giudici, including the primo giudice, are to act as the Senate's voice in the enforcement of Roman Law and Justice. Sitting in the courts, they will punish those guilty of criminal offenses, according to the Justinian codex.
• The giudici will be provided with legal expertise and scribes to make sure both that their judgment respects the spirit of the Justinian codex and that their judgments are recorded.
• The giudici will make their judgement not in the streets or their estates, but in the Trajan Halls.
• If the giudici neglect such legal expertise as should put Roman Justice in jeopardy, they shall be stripped of their privileges as giudice and more if the case deserves a harsher punishment. This in a public session of the courts.

[/spoiler]

If I were to present this, Senator Manzinni, would you offer your support?[/ic]

[LD]

[ic=Lesser Council]

Yes. I can support that proposal. Thank you for the effort you expended in proposing the precepts.

I see no great need to specify the following points, but for my own edification, I take it that the last precept of whether to bring charges of judicial neglect is decided by the Counsel of the Interior or the Senate as a whole. [/ic]

[Magnus Pym]

[ic=Before the Lesser Council]It would surprise me to see delay and obstinacy in such circumstances, but the consuls do hold veto powers already. I doubt it's necessary.[/ic]

[LD]

[ooc]

As I understand, Polycarp could choose the guidice based on an obfuscated general feeling choice based on how we allot our preferences, as DeVinti suggests. In the interests of better understanding- if there is a system by which you will prioritize the giudice, Polycarp, would the below be a general guide:

Would the 9 elected Senatorial Giudice be allotted based on our influence stat percentages?

Manzinni - 6
Basile - 5
DeVinti - 7
Sissmondi- 5
Vivani- 6
Bocca - 6

So each of us gets at least 1 (6 players) of our choice.
Then there are 3, of which 1 should probably to DeVinti to account for his increased influence.
I suppose the other two are generated based on Manzinni, Viviani, Bocca's preferences.
[/ooc]

[Magnus Pym]

[ic=Before the Senate]The response my proposal has received seems to me very positive. Therefore, I've drafted a bill I hope this Senate will make law. Without any further delay, here it is:

Hugo reads aloud from his small, but elegant rolled scroll.
[spoiler="The Selection Of The Giudici, And Their Duty"]

• In Autumn, after the consular election, the Senate will appoint ten senators of good repute to become giudice for a year. The first to be chosen will be elected by the consuls. He will be primo giudice. The nine remaining positions will be filled by the choices of the Senate at large. They will be the giudici.
• The primo giudice will sit mainly on trials of prime importance that usually would have been dealt with by the consuls themselves, but for which the consuls can't make themselves available to render judgment.
• The giudici, including the primo giudice, are to act as the Senate's voice in the enforcement of Roman Law and Justice. Sitting in the courts, they will punish those guilty of criminal offenses, according to the Justinian codex.
• The giudici will be provided with legal expertise and scribes to make sure both that their judgment respects the spirit of the Justinian codex and that their judgments are recorded.
• The giudici will make their judgement not in the streets or their estates, but in the Trajan Halls.
• If the giudici neglect such legal expertise as should put Roman Justice in jeopardy, they shall be stripped of their privileges as giudice and more if the case deserves a harsher punishment. This in a public session of the courts.

[/spoiler][/ic]

[ooc=Orders for Summer of 1160 AD]Pay Upkeep for Palatini [1 WP]
Maintain order in Campitelli et S. Adriani (XII) and Trivii et Vie Late (II), especially around the Curia Julia, the Tabularium and the Market of Trajan. Criminals will be arrested and brought before the courts in the Trajan Halls.

Find the whereabouts of Wetzel and keep him under surveillance.

Put the giudici bill to a vote.

Keep the current wheat crops in my newly acquired field untouched. It will be converted to flax production come Autumn.

Send agents in Pisa and Bologna to find suitable dictatores, men of letters, that would accept employment in the new university, in Rome. Remember I sent agents to Orléans a little while ago.

Send additional agents to Pisa and Ancona to investigate the need for flax; what price they currently pay, whom do they pay and the cost of delivering large quantities of flax by cart. Names for future letters would be appreciated if there's any potential for setting up trade deals. Otherwise, the order will be repeated in the next update for other cities.

In the same breath, send my Neapolitan agent to Naples to investigate the flax economy more thoroughly; Who is the biggest flax producer, what's his station, to whom does he sell, at what price does he sell, where are his fields and are they protected, does he have powerful rivals? The answer to this particular order is not as pressing, unless the king of Sicily declares war against Latium, as its exactitude is important, so I will gladly await two season if a more thorough study can get me better answers. Or a study cut in half for a report each season, for two seasons.

Send agents to Nepi to find out about the sympathies of its people, its government and any other information of note such as visits by representatives of the Vitcorian, Alexandrian or imperial parties. Also investigate on why Nepi didn't immediately follow Sutri in siding with the Alexandrian faction.[/ooc]

[Nomadic]

[ooc=orders]
- Pay palatini upkeep [1 wp]
- Finish funding tiber estate [2 wp]

- Support the proposed judicial election system
- Have 10 of my palatini watch over the tiber estate project
- Have another 20 guard my rocca
- The remaining 20 will be provided to join on patrols with my fellow senator's men as needed and to form a quick response force for aiding in the prevention of any riots. If needed five of themen from the estate and 10 from the rocca may also be sent out to aid in any such response.
- My masnada shall be sent on patrols in and around the curia julia and the courthouse in an attempt to maintain the peace in the area.
[/ooc]

[TheMeanestGuest]

I'm assuming we're going to need some kind of extension here. If not, I can have my orders up fairly quickly.

[Steerpike]

Ack, this really crept up on me. I might be able to scramble and put something up but an extension would be helpful (and would improve the quality of my responses).

[Polycarp]

That's fine.  Any suggestions for a more appropriate due date?

[Steerpike]

Maybe the 31st?