Fractured Ideas in Need of Glue (and a better title)

[Weave]

I hate what I'm typing because it's not how I want to present this, but I've been driving my head through a wall for months trying to get it out. I've had an idea in the works for some time and while I wish I had something more concrete to show, I only have these little bits here and there and some simple scaffolding holding them up. I need your help. Here it is:

"Time is a sieve, and we are sifting through the grains of a world wholly unlike ours in an attempt to make sense of the present."

The setting is, on the surface, a more typical fantasy/D&D style setting, except that just beneath the surface are the ruins of an ancient, super-advanced civilization whose technologies serve the basis for what passes as "magic" in this world (I don't mean "just below the surface" in a literal sense, but more like a veneer cast over the setting. Though in some cases there probably are ancient ruins literally right beneath the surface). A village might be made in the shadow of a monstrous warmachine, more a part of the geography than something identifiably man-made. Ruined cityscapes would be added as a geographical term alongside mountains and rivers and forests on maps. Some poor provincial town might be indistinguishable from something out of a more typified fantasy setting, save the inventor working with his electrical wires and tapping on a salvaged computer screen; but people wouldn't refer to them as computers, or electricity as electricity, and whatnot. Ancient rocket silos might now be colloquially known only as machines that took people to the heavens or erased the earth; the array of roving satellites still orbiting the planet might've spawned entire theologies around them. Technologies would fall into the realm of something divine, and the people who wield them with some semblance of understanding might be referred to as wizards or mages.

The world has many large, deeply buried lines that conduct Current, the de facto magic substance of the setting, and any city worth its salt has found a way to mine down and tap into these lines ("Leylines"). Knights of considerable renown would don armor woven from the unnaturally light and dense fabric that coats these Leylines. The Current is also key to tapping into the Echo, a second plane of existence (a Matrix-like virtual reality accessible through special conduits) where archeologists project themselves to learn about the ancient past. Everything there is recorded in Arc-Speech, the ancient high speech of the previous world, centuries, if not eons old. Arc-Speech remains as a sort of lingua franca amongst researchers and the high class.

Despite all this, swords, axes, lances, bows and arrows are still used. Primarily (I welcome the encounter of some laser rifle vs a troupe of knights armed with shield and lance - I mix my peas and mashed potatoes when I eat. I'm not sorry). Why? A dominant, widespread faith believes that the world before this was destroyed by the firearms they created, and attempts to locate and control these WMDs (for nefarious purposes? for the greater good?) while simultaneously spreading that any of the early firearms that folks have surreptitiously created (revolvers and rifles, but nothing like AK-47s or the like) are heretical and dangerous outlaws.

This is... mostly it. I have some other details jingling around in my head, but I thought this was an idea worth sharing. I will do my best to compose something more organized, but ideas/critiques/advice/whatever is/are recommended and encouraged, as well as encouraging. Otherwise I'll just keep posting until the semblance of something cohesive rears its head amongst the word-spew.

[Steerpike]

Are you thinking of this as a human-only setting for the most part? Are there androids? Other robots? Mutants? Bio-engineered species?

[O Senhor Leetz]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by " typical fantasy/D&D style setting" - elves, wizards, trolls? - but I'm always a fan of old technology as magic.

I also get a very anime vibe with "Some poor provincial town might be indistinguishable from something out of a more typified fantasy setting, save the inventor working with his electrical wires and tapping on a salvaged computer screen." I mean that in a good way.

[Weave]

Are you thinking of this as a human-only setting for the most part? Are there androids? Other robots? Mutants? Bio-engineered species?

I actually have a set of races in mind for the setting, and some sort of automata are among them, in addition to humans. I have "giants," which resemble tall (9' - 12'), well-built humans that possibly exist as a result of genetically engineered super soldiers from the old world. There's room for more oddities, though. To answer Leetz's question, though...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by " typical fantasy/D&D style setting" - elves, wizards, trolls? - but I'm always a fan of old technology as magic.

I also get a very anime vibe with "Some poor provincial town might be indistinguishable from something out of a more typified fantasy setting, save the inventor working with his electrical wires and tapping on a salvaged computer screen." I mean that in a good way.

I don't see there being elves and dwarves and trolls per se, but like the "giants" above, perhaps they have some reason for existing. I don't have a great definition for what I mean when I say "typical fantasy," but I would define it more in terms of time period  - thatched roof cottages and wandering knight errants, that sort of thing. I guess I have an image in mind, but I don't know how best to put it in words.

Also, thanks! I'm not very big into anime, but I'll take the compliment.

[Ghostman]

Seems more like JRPG tropes than anime to me. Chrono Trigger is just chocked full of that kind of stuff, for instance.

[Numinous]

I can definitely see where people are getting whiffs of anime or JRPG's from this.  I could be wrong, but it feels like the replies are trying to dig out the feeling of wonder, awe, or sheer scale contained in the idea of living on top of or within the remains of some culture before.

A village might be made in the shadow of a monstrous warmachine, more a part of the geography than something identifiably man-made.

This especially strikes me, and I certainly don't think this kind of wonder is inaccessible in the context of thatched rooves and knight errants.  To me at least, it feels like narratively you want to move the camera up and out, from a view profiling the hero against the castle to one where ants crawl unknowingly over the skull of a long-abandoned mobile suit or some such.

If I'm off base for your vision, let me know!  Maybe you can get some clarity from finding out what your world is not!

Thematic influences for the ideas presented here: Nausicaa, Dune, Dresden Codak

[Ghostman]

If it's difficult to present your ideas then consider writing a description as an exercise, as if you were GMing the setting and the PCs were just arriving to a location they'd never been to before. How does the place look like, what draws their attention? Show off the local population, what they are doing and how do they react to the apperance of the PCs. Describe the atmosphere of the place, the smells and sounds and the colors. Finally, focus on the points of interest -- the reason why the PCs have come to this place, and what kind of challenges and opportunities await them there.

[sparkletwist]

I don't have a whole lot to add, but let me chime in and say I like this so far. The merging of more traditional fantasy tropes with sci-fi/futuristic stuff is of course something I go for, so I'm intrigued.

[TheMeanestGuest]

Something that I think would be interesting regarding the 'matrix-archaeologists' would be how cultural memories and legends differ from what actually occurred in the past. With access to that kind of information these people would probably have a very different perspective on the world than everyone else. I'm interested to see what you come up with, Weave!

[Weave]

Yeah, I can see where people are getting the JRPG out of this. I actually grew up on Final Fantasy, so perhaps that's bleeding in somehow, though I don't necessarily intend it to (nor do I mind). I will say this: I find most JRPGs I've played tend to show off an almost obnoxiously clean and beautiful standard of technology and architecture, as if it was all just made. While I imagine some places may certainly look pristine and untouched for centuries in this setting, I see more rust, wear and tear, and general weathering to the ancient architecture.

I've also considered the idea that the civilization before this setting takes place was advanced enough that they pretty much exclusively used hovercrafts and aerial vessels, so things like wheels wouldn't be around much. Taking that to a (perhaps illogical) extreme, I wondered if the "modern day" of the setting would also be slow to adopt the wheel, relying on beasts of burden and what rare hover-tech they can salvage. I realize the wheel is a pretty fundamental aspect of our basic technology, but there were older cultures in our world that never ended up developing it (the Incas are the only ones that come to mind. Maybe there's more). I just thought it would be a neat aesthetic for the setting. Maybe it's being a bit ridiculous. I'm not sure.

A village might be made in the shadow of a monstrous warmachine, more a part of the geography than something identifiably man-made.
This especially strikes me, and I certainly don't think this kind of wonder is inaccessible in the context of thatched rooves and knight errants.  To me at least, it feels like narratively you want to move the camera up and out, from a view profiling the hero against the castle to one where ants crawl unknowingly over the skull of a long-abandoned mobile suit or some such.

If I'm off base for your vision, let me know!  Maybe you can get some clarity from finding out what your world is not!

Thematic influences for the ideas presented here: Nausicaa, Dune, Dresden Codak

No, you are quite on-base with these assumptions. Zooming up and out would be good, but I find that my methods of creativity aren't so organized at first. I tend to operate in little bursts of loosely related up-close ideas of little cultures and practices and towns and whatnot. I like that stuff, it makes it all feel very real from the ground-level up. But then again, having that grand framework in mind would always be helpful.

Also, I have Dune on my list of "to-read." I'm reading Stephen King's Dark Tower series right now, which is partially where some of this stuff stems from (I feel woefully behind on my reading). I do love me some Dresden Codak, but I had actually never heard of Nausicaa until you mentioned it. It looks kickass. I'll probably have to watch it. Thank you!

If it's difficult to present your ideas then consider writing a description as an exercise, as if you were GMing the setting and the PCs were just arriving to a location they'd never been to before. How does the place look like, what draws their attention? Show off the local population, what they are doing and how do they react to the apperance of the PCs. Describe the atmosphere of the place, the smells and sounds and the colors. Finally, focus on the points of interest -- the reason why the PCs have come to this place, and what kind of challenges and opportunities await them there.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I've come up with something that might not quite fit the bill of what you describe, but it's something I found interesting and wanted to share.

[ic=Trains]A woman dressed in ragged attire, like pieces of metal held together by bits of frayed, dirty cloth, stands before a stilled train. She raises her arms to shine the front of the cyclopean machine alongside countless others. Her long hair is braided in thick strands to her hips, knotted with bits of metal equidistantly along them. She turns and her face is black with oil and grease, but elegantly painted in simple, thick designs, revealing her sun-browned skin between. She is one of many wanderers here.

"My mother's mother left from the cradle of this train a long time ago. As she told it, 'twas one of the last working cradles, all smooth and sparkling, stainless even to the unrelenting sun. Old prayer-workers brought the train back to life on the seventh setting of the sun since their arrival, but there was only so much Current could be fed into it. We ride the Transpatican when we can, taking offerings of glasslights and salvage prayers; we walk alongside it when we can only muster a drift from it; we camp and pray and wait when we can't get it to move at all. That's when the prayer-workers go inside the Transpatican and put the salvage prayers to work, trying to squeeze the faith out of them to get the train to move. We've had setbacks, yes, and tragedies aplenty, certainly, but we've also grown in number, seen families born within and around the Line, and ridden through places just shy of what must be Heaven. I don't know what I'll do when I see the end, should the Line grace me with the days, but whosoever pledges to the Transpatican rides with us and falls under our protection. It is as my grandmother said: The lost need not be lonely."
[/ic]

Something that I think would be interesting regarding the 'matrix-archaeologists' would be how cultural memories and legends differ from what actually occurred in the past. With access to that kind of information these people would probably have a very different perspective on the world than everyone else. I'm interested to see what you come up with, Weave!

This is actually something I really want to get into. I don't know how much in the Echo would be completely legible. I want to be able to spoon feed juicy tidbits to at least give some context to cultural legends and history before the Dissension or Fall or whatever, but I also don't want to get too detailed. Intentional vagueness gives me more wiggle room.

I don't have a whole lot to add, but let me chime in and say I like this so far. The merging of more traditional fantasy tropes with sci-fi/futuristic stuff is of course something I go for, so I'm intrigued.

O Thanks. I have yet to think of a pithy, one-word title for this setting to go along with Asura and Opus :P.

[sparkletwist]

I have yet to think of a pithy, one-word title for this setting to go along with Asura and Opus

Echo, maybe?

I'm not sure how important you intend the Echo to be in the setting, but I like that it both refers to something within the setting but also basically describes it. The modern day, having emerged out of the ruins of the more technologically advanced past, is something of an echo of the civilization that was.

How long ago do you think the ancient civilization fell? One issue is that technology that isn't maintained tends to decay really fast, and nature tends to reclaim abandoned places pretty swiftly. If people don't have any way to repair stuff from the past, then after any amount of time has passed at all, a lot of it will have broken and be useless. This can subvert the whole feeling of having this stuff around and interacting with it that it seems like you were trying to create. Maybe exposure to Current keeps things in working order and can repair certain devices, or something?

[Ghostman]

I have yet to think of a pithy, one-word title for this setting to go along with Asura and Opus :P.

Would Debris be too bleak of a word? I think something that touches on the themes of dereliction and salvaging would be evocative.

[Xeviat]

Like a few others here, I have to say that I like this a lot without having terribly too much to add. I will say that my own setting draws upon some of the same inspiration as you, but a little more on the fantasy side then the sci-fi side. A post-post-post apocalyptic setting is a fun thing, especially when you hide it from the readers/players for a while, all while feeding them little hints. It's a great constraint to focus/limit your creativity.

I am really digging the imagery of the setting. I absolutely love having big wonders of the past standing alongside the "modern" elements of the setting. You've done that in a different way than I have, which makes it seem refreshing and unique to me.

I second the earlier suggestion with simply writing a description to your "players". Another thing I did once was sit down with a friend who is interested in the setting and take some of their ideas. It's definitely a thing that we can do for you here, of course.

I'd love to see an automaton race. I love the idea of new races of the setting as genetic engineering experiments of the former rulers of the world; that is an element I've used in my setting.

Here are some things I've thought of for my setting, if any of those sound interesting to you:

• I use the material world and the spirit world, but my spirit world is an actual place of magic; we differ there.
  
• Lycanthropes and the bestial races are the products of genetic engineering by the ancients. The bestial races (wolf, cheetah, rat, bear, bat, and dolphin) were the first round of these experiments, and breed true with themselves and with humans; lycanthropes were a later attempt, and are spread by a virus that the bestial races are immune to.
  
• I use the classic fantasy races. Elves are from the spirit world, and are the spiritual reflection of humans; that's why half-elves are possible. Giants were made from human genetic engineering to survive the oncoming cataclysm; that's why ogres (half-giants) are possible. Dwarves, Halflings, Ifrit (fiery lizard/snake people), Valkyrie (tall bird people), and Tritons are all products of evolution in the 50 million years that have passed since now and when the setting takes place, aided by the magic of the world. Humans were reintroduced to the world by the Angels.
  
• Angels are hyper evolved humans. Angels use technology the way the fantastical people of the world use magic. Devils are also hyper evolved humans, but they've utilized genetic engineering to improve themselves. The Earth is their laboratory right now, but they are held at bay by the dragons and the new gods of the world.
  
• The world is animistic, and the gods are powerful spirits that hail from the spirit world. "God" typically means a largely benevolent spirit who people worship to receive blessings; "Demon" typically means a malevolent spirit who people worship to stay or direct it's destructive wrath.

I don't think everything applies, but sometimes hearing other people's ideas helps focus your own.

Keep it coming!