4E

[Numinous]

In light of Ishmayl's new poll, who will buy 4E?  Why? Or why not?
Who has given up on D&D in favor of other systems?

I'll only buy 4E pending some other member of the CBG's positive review.  I've learned the hard way not to just leap in and buy something that looks good, as my completely unused collection of 3.5 D&D supplements can attest to.

Personally, I'd like to see simplified rules, and right now I'm looking in other places for the things I want.  I'm really on a search right now, just collecting the "core rules" for every system I can find hoping that I will enjoy one of them.  That, and I wait with baited breath for LC's new homebrew system, as it seems to hold a lot of what I've learned to love in an RPG system.

[Epic Meepo]

In light of Ishmayl's new poll, who will buy 4E?  Why? Or why not?
Who has given up on D&D in favor of other systems?

I'll buy 4E, at least the Core Rules. Having played every edition of D&D from Basic (the red box printing) to 3.5, I have to say that I have enjoyed each edition more than the last. The more editions there are, the more old material I have to draw upon when creating house rules. (Yes, I regularly reference even my old red boxed set when creating house rules for 3.5.)

Also, usually by coincidence, every new edition of D&D has ended up incorporating some of the house rules that I used in the previous edition into its core rules. So as long as the designers keep coming up with ideas that seem to fit with my particular approach to modifying the game, I'll keep supporting them.

As for leaving D&D for other systems, I don't see D&D and other systems as mutually exclusive. I'll play whatever system is most approapriate to the setting I'm playing in, without shunning the others. When I have a gaming group that needs to play short sessions that don't get too heavy, I'll play D&D because it is a good-versus-evil combat simulation game that doesn't require complex moral quandries, intensive character development, or GM invention to mitigate an overly-permissive character creation process. You can just pick it up, play with fairly ready-made roles, and kill some monsters.

(D&D is like a WWII movie where you don't have to sweat it that Nazis are getting slaughtered by the dozen. Nazis are bad. Allies are good. I'm an Ally, so its good that Nazis are getting slaughtered. Are there some Nazi soldiers who disagree with their leaders and are only going along becuase they fear for their lives? Yes. Does the WWII movie dwell on that fact? No. That would ruin the movie's entire genre.)

When I want some other style of play, I either house-rule it, or I use another game system. As it so happens, in my experience, player familiarity with third party systems is inconsistent at best. There is no one third party system that nearly every gamer knows, so as I encounter different gaming groups, I end up dabbling in any number of systems other than D&D, from Shadowrun and Storyteller to GURPs and (currently) a Hong-Kong action system called Fung Shui. (Every gaming group I've ever met offline has also universally known and at least occasioanly played the most recent edition of D&D.)

As for what should be put in the latest edition of D&D, I hope it retains the usual sacred cows. As I've mentioned here and elsewhere before, D&D isn't a generic roleplaying game. It's designed to recreate only one specific kind of story with a few specific types of characters. For that matter, its one of the few roleplaying games that specifically caters to its own unique themes.

And while I hope that the 4E rules are more concise and streamlined that the 3.5 rules (games should always become easier to use as they get refined), I in no way hope that it becomes one of those systems where it just gives you guidelines for creating any character you want and then tells you that the players need to figure out how to balance things on their own. When it comes to good-versus-evil combat simulation, I want things laid out exactly the way D&D does it now, even if that can't be fit into one book a la Mutants and Masterminds or other systems.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I never ever used racial limits. I gave humans a few extra bonuses to compensate, most commonly consisting of +1 to any one ability and two extra weapon proficiency points (this was before I had access to the Players Option series; then I just went crazy).

I was primarily just ranting against the idea in general, that's why I put the soapbox smiley in front of it.  I feel that many of the elements of D&D, even in the current edition, are offensive (and not even specifically offensive, but generally), and I take every opportunity to decry them.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I'm not really a huge fan of D&D or even d20 for a number of reasons beyond the scope of what I want to go into this morning, but I might still buy 4E in the hopes that it would fix some these issues (though since most of them are the so-called "sacred cows," I doubt it).  Still, many of my friends know and even prefer D&D, so I continue to occassionally play it.

I vastly prefer The Riddle of Steel.  I've also enjoyed Shadowrun and Warhammer, and have some interest in Storyteller.  I'd be interested in looking into other systems if I could convince more other players to give them a try.

[snakefing]

While I'm not a big fan of the class and level concept, over time I've become convinced that it is not inherently flaws. Rather, the D&D implementation of classes and levels is especially rigid and uncompromising. 3.5e fixes some of this, but didn't really go all the way. I rather suspect that 4e will be the same, but I'll be interested to see.

If you look at the core of d20 system (classes and levels with XP, feats, skills, combat system, magic system), the flawed parts are mostly fixable. For example, the way bonus feats are used in the core fighter class makes it nicely flexible, within the limits of what they've allowed you. I'd just like to see that flexibility extended to all the classes. And improve on the multiclassing system so you can combine classes more effectively and freely. This would relieve the requirement for more base classes, more prestige classes, etc. with every new supplement. At least, this is the direction I'm moving in with my own variant d20 tinkering.

So I'd be interested to see if 4e moves a little more in the same direction. It may not, because of the aforementioned sacred cows. But they could surprise me.

[Thanuir]

I have mostly given up D&D. The tactics just are not that interesting (I prefer board games) and most other things I can do better with freeform or Burning Wheel.

[beejazz]

It depends on my budget. If I can, I will buy EVERYTHING.

[the_taken]

I've been following the posts of these two nut cases that figured they could simplify the game, fix up inconsistantcies, stupid rules and "WTF?!?" things, while amping up the warrior's game. I asked them to hop over to the CBG, and they ignored me. They got this guy to make them an SRD though. Linky to Frank and K SRD

[brainface]

i've heard of those guys. I think their mechanics can be suspect, at best; but i love the explanations they make.

[Wrexham3]

Basically I cant afford it so I wont buy it.  WOTC are following the Games Workshop business model where you get all the saps (i.e. us) to buy their products for five years and then they completely renew their product line in the hope that we'll buy it all over again.  Its a tired old con, but it works - its better than the strategy which TSR pursued in the nineties.  I use a stripped down version of 3.0 with bits of 3.5 (for instance the much improved ranger class) added on.  It does what I want it to do, which is provide the framework for the interactive stories me and my players create.  And thats it.  I dont need to buy a fancy new edition to do that.  

[Hibou]

I posted recently in a Future Releases thread on WotC regarding new manuals coming out, and I came to a conclusion not only for new releases in 3.5 but those in 4.0 as well. I don't really want to see 4.0 come out, but rather I want to see all of the major existing material clumped together in a series of massive encyclopedias, i.e. MM/MM2/MM3/MM4/MM5/FF/MonOfF all in one huge tome, and all of the PHB/PHB2 + DMG/DMG2 + XPH + etc. all in one. Yes, they would be massive books and might give rise to back problems in some people, but as someone said on that thread, "it'd be no worse than carrying all of your current supplements around in a backpack". They could even theme the encyclopedias ("Encyclopedia of Races, Volume 1", "Encyclopedia of Magic, Volume 1", etc.), though obviously fill each with a lot more material instead of trying to milk every cent out of the books by creating an extra volume.

And this could by no means discontinue the individual books (though maybe they could stop producing everything in single copies except for core and heavily core-related books), leaving it easier for newcomers to the games and people who just want a few simple things (but I know I'd want the massive collections).

[Elven Doritos]

Oh. My. God.

I did not know there was a MMV in the works until the post above me. :explode:

I guess it's a good thing I stopped buying supplements this spring, I could never foresee myself using most of these supplements. Ever.

As for 4E, I don't begrudge it if it ever comes, but I probably won't learn how to play it. 3e/3.5 works just fine for me, so I'll stick with it.

[brainface]

I could never foresee myself [using???] most of these supplements.

no one[/i] can use all or most or perhaps even many of just wizard's supplements.

I'd kind of imagine most people would ignore 90% of the new books coming out and snap up 1 every 2 months or so that looked really appealing?

[Hibou]

The problem with most books and buying a select few now is that they reference other books heavily while saying "while those books are useful, they are not necessary to put this book to use" even though there's usually a fair bit of material in the book that relates.

[Elven Doritos]

I could never foresee myself [using???] most of these supplements.

no one[/i] can use all or most or perhaps even many of just wizard's supplements.

I'd kind of imagine most people would ignore 90% of the new books coming out and snap up 1 every 2 months or so that looked really appealing?

Right now, I don't see any that I would buy. I guess I'm just content.